[Riggs]

Actually one of the dudes who we sometimes airsoft with is one. Hes buddies with alot of the ex military dudes who also play with us, and he owns a tactical supply shop (sells the real deal tactical gear and police supply stores) in Ft Lauderdale area. He will just disappear for a few months for a deployment while the family runs the shop. Hes a very calm and normal dude, expert on everything and makes a ton off the weekend warrior airsofters who he meets and they want to buy all the real deal tactical gear from him. Never got any macho attitude or anything from him, he doesn't talk about what he does or glorifies it. Eh the name changes and stuff does nothing for accountability, they only change the names to hide the bad rep.

That's what I mean't basically. As for accountability there still really is none ....

[Deified Data]

No, the difference is that mercenary groups don't have to answer to public opinion and have the freedom of method and lack of bureaucracy/red tape that comes with being a private organization.

I think we're talking about different things.

I'm aware of the superficial differences between military and PMC. I just see no difference between the two, morally. I don't think either is morally reprehensible in and of itself. I understand why someone in the armed forces would feel superior to a mercenary...I just think they're delusional.

[WanderingWind]

I think we're talking about different things. I'm aware of the superficial differences between military and PMC. I just see no difference between the two, morally. I don't think either is morally reprehensible in and of itself. I understand why someone in the armed forces would feel superior to a mercenary...I just think they're delusional.

Nice. And I understand why somebody would think this way. I just think they're ignorant.

[Balphon]

I know. I just don't think one justification is any better (or worse) than the other. Doesn't make one side inherently right and the other inherently wrong.

Fair enough, but inasmuch as there are degrees of wrong in this area, it seems clear that one side is worse.

[SnakeswithLasers]

So being a murdered is A-OK now?

I would hate to b murdered.

[bistromathics]

War never changes

War has changed.

[Arment]

War has changed.

Tactics have changed, but the basic premise will never change.

[Wazzim]

So you believe every soldier who fights for their country is a murderer and that it isn't okay that they're a soldier? A PMC is hardly much different, it's just that they're in the private sector.

Yes, they are murderers and yes it isn't okay that they're a soldier.
A PMC is even worse though, it's one of the most disgusting practices I've ever witnessed and sincerely wish them the worst.

War blows. No one should like it. But if a soldier is going to do the same job as a PMC, why not do it for the PMC and get paid more? As is stands in this thread anyway, you also have a lot less pressure on you because if you muck up you aren't going to be court marshaled.

That's the worst part. They are soulless people who murder for money and evade regulation that has been created by the people. It takes away the tiny bit of respect that they could have earned from being a soldier and have become the enemy of humanity.

Not even a hyperbole too.

I would hate to b murdered.

You're quick. I'll give you that.

[Deified Data]

Tactics have changed, but the basic premise will never change.

Justifications, too.

1,000 years ago, you could tell your people you were going to war specifically to wipe a tribe off the face of the earth and they'd be behind you. Nowadays you have to convince them you're "liberators" and...

Nevermind, genocide is still a thing. I guess we haven't changed that much.

[h0pper]

I knew someone who worked for Triple Canopy, but he didn't make it back.

[Al-ibn Kermit]

Aren't they just security guards for foreign contractors? Or does this guy actually track down bounties?

[SnakeswithLasers]

So you believe every soldier who fights for their country is a murderer and that it isn't okay that they're a soldier? A PMC is hardly much different, it's just that they're in the private sector. War blows. No one should like it. But if a soldier is going to do the same job as a PMC, why not do it for the PMC and get paid more? As is stands in this thread anyway, you also have a lot less pressure on you because if you muck up you aren't going to be court marshaled. Nationalism is the only thing that separates a soldier from a mercenary. Wipe that away and you have men and women trained to be soldiers working for money to kill the bad guy. When is the last time we've been in a just war anyways? World War 2 or Korea?

You should be required to forfeit your complaints about "war sucking/blowing/being terrible/being inhuman" if you are not only volunteering to do it, but doing it as job for a private company because the pay is fantastic.

The reason "war is hell" came into being is because for the majority of people throughout history they were conscripted to do it for the necessity of their or their society's survival. People who choose to do war for a private company for a paycheck don't get to say that war is hell. Hell isn't voluntary, it is a divine punishment that you can't beg, borrow, cheat, or steal your way out of. War is hell if you're on the other end of the mercenary's gun, but as a mercenary you're killing for plunder, plain and simple, and that's an old trade that needn't be lauded in my opinion.

[.GqueB.]

Mod change subject to:

My friend's brother is a goddamn badass.

[SnakeswithLasers]

Mod change subject to: My friend's brother is a goddamn badass.

That's disgusting.

[bistromathics]

Tactics have changed, but the basic premise will never change.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pl1w_...e_gdata_player

http://podcast.idlethumbs.net/music/..._thewizard.mp3

[Derrick01]

What is this hippy bullshit where people are pretending to be outraged at what soldiers or mercenaries do?

[h0pper]

Aren't they just security guards for foreign contractors? Or does this guy actually track down bounties?

I believe they handle a wide variety of tasks. Mostly, they do things like security, escorts, etc. However, they also act just as the regular military would act, with less responsibility because they aren't wearing the American flag. That's not to say they are all out of control blood thirst maniacs. Some of them definitely are, but that was mostly down to the philosophy being preached at BlackWater.

watch this video of Travis Haley (former MagPul spokesman going to town):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BDoX8UnQ4D0

[19 & 21]

Yeah totes cool bro, I've always wanted to murder people for dat green.

[BocoDragon]

Eh the name changes and stuff does nothing for accountability, they only change the names to hide the bad rep.

Yeah the thing is, everyone and their dog knew who Blackwater was (although after reading this thread maybe not, lol). And it had an EVIL rep. I see why they changed their name. And I see why they changed it twice. "Xe"..? What the fuck, lol.

[derder]

Justifications, too. 1,000 years ago, you could tell your people you were going to war specifically to wipe a tribe off the face of the earth and they'd be behind you. Nowadays you have to convince them you're "liberators" and... Nevermind, genocide is still a thing. I guess we haven't changed that much.

I'm on your side, man.

[Riggs]

What is this hippy bullshit where people are pretending to be outraged at what soldiers or mercenaries do?

Big difference for me between soldiers and PMC's. If you go murder a fucking village you are "supposed" to get held in court martial. PMC's just get away with shit.

And I say "supposed" too, because look at Haditha. Guy barely got any punishment at all.

[Wazzim]

What is this hippy bullshit where people are pretending to be outraged at what soldiers or mercenaries do?

Why 'pretending'?

[Steelrain]

I used to work for a security contractor. When I left the military, some of the guys who got out before me got me plugged in so I did a couple of contracts. It was ok but I didn't really trust any of the guys I was working with so that was kind of a downside.

Anyway,when I got out I hooked up some of the younger guys with some contact info so they could check it out if they wanted to. I have several friends contracting right now and they love it. They get payed four times more to do a job that they already know and love. I don't blame them.

[BocoDragon]

What is this hippy bullshit where people are pretending to be outraged at what soldiers or mercenaries do?

PMCs cost more than actual soldiers (usually the opposite of what "outsourcing" is designed to accomplish), and a lot of their use is to hide things.. whether that's the hide the toll of the war on the army, to carry out operations that soldiers could not, or would not normally carry out, to do things that a country wants that they don't want to publically be seen to support, etc.

I aint even mad. But it's the definition of "shady".

[shadyspace]

Aren't there US and European mercs working for the Mexican cartels? That could be construed as working against their home nations' interests.

[Loxley]

There's a pretty interesting National Geographic documentary on PMC's in Irag that's on Netflix streaming right now.

[Tamanon]

From the contractors I've known, he probably spends his day babysitting some official, not quite as glamorous as he says. Money still is outstanding from what I've heard.

[Nevasleep]

Aren't there US and European mercs working for the Mexican cartels? That could be construed as working against their home nations' interests.

It wouldn't be through an official company though, just loners and friends probably?

I guess anti-piracy contractors is going to be a big area too.

[Ace Harding]

I have a coworker who was a sniper in the Marines and another who used a saw.

?

[KHarvey16]

?

M249.

[Derrick01]

Why 'pretending'?

I'm giving them the benefit of the doubt. It's pretty obvious why mercenaries exist, at least the real ones that is.

[Atenhaus]

Man, this thread's gonna get better and better.

popcorn.gif

[Arcteryx]

It wouldn't be through an official company though, just loners and friends probably? I guess anti-piracy contractors is going to be a big area too.

It already is. A lot of the bigger contractors were already doing it, but in the last few years a ton of smaller companies solely for pirate protection have sprung up.

If they bring back Letters of Marque I'll sign up in a second. I wanna capture me some Somali skiffs.

[Arment]

Man, this thread's gonna get better and better. popcorn.gif

Feel free to actually contribute.

[ChiTownBuffalo]

Aren't there US and European mercs working for the Mexican cartels? That could be construed as working against their home nations' interests.

No. Why?

Los Zetas are ex-Mexican Special Forces, why hire gringos and risk a UC, when you already know where to get more?

[GungHo]

No, this is very real. Private Military Companies (PMCs) offer contracts to soldiers currently on duty. My girlfriend's brother was offered a six-figure salary plus bonuses while he was serving overseas, though he declined.

I can confirm the money they offer is insane, and their pitch is as slick as any you'd ever imagine out of some New York City law firm. The more marketable and more danger-related your skillset, the better the offer, obviously. That doesn't mean they're looking for some dipshit who stepped out of a movie like Animal Mother, but they also don't really need a lot of ordinance loaders, either.

How is that different from normal armed forces? Not being glib, I genuinely don't know.

The chain of command of "normal" armed forces aren't directly motivated by profit. I mean, there's probably someone's strategic goals somewhere, but it's like saying "what's the difference between the Department of Commerce and Wal-Mart."

If the PMC has been contracted with the US Armed Forces, they're overseen by the US Armed Forces and serve in an auxiliary role. Where things get muddy is when they're also hired out to various companies to serve as security or specialists. Then you really do have a lot of tensions around whether or not the PMCs are going to do things that are beneficial to the goals of the US Armed Forces (and the reputation thereof) or beneficial to the other company they're working for, especially since that other company is giving them more money (what do you think wins?). Moreover, when a PMC employee does something monumentally stupid, accountability becomes a pointing match.

They are both in process of either going to join Black Water (forgot what they're called now) or try for Navy Seals. They said the training is exactly the same for Seals as their Marine training.

Hah. Yeah... uh... no. This doesn't work this way and the training isn't exactly the same. I think your friends are shitting you.

[Anticitizen One]

Living the dream:

[The Albatross]

I prefer the term "sell sword."

[TOM f'N CRUISE]

Now that you've exposed him, he's going to kill you.

yup

[StalkerUKCG]

I prefer the term "sell sword."

Also the ignorance in this thread is great.

[adamsappel]

[squidyj]

M249.

could you imagine the guy who successfully used an actual saw on a modern battlefield? That'd be one crazy motherfucker.

[Tomat]

Is it bad that I would actually considering working for Academi (Blackwater) or another PMC if they had use for a CS major? Obviously it wouldn't be field work though.

[Fugu]

So is he, like, a real mercenary, or does he collect Airsoft guns and katanas and have a Soldier of Fortune subscription?

[Longshot]

My friend is a sniper for a nuclear power plant in the middle of no where South Carolina. He did 2 tours of Iraq, and makes something like 80K a year sitting in a tower.

That sounds like something out of a Bind movie, seems like a rad job.

[KHarvey16]

could you imagine the guy who successfully used an actual saw on a modern battlefield? That'd be one crazy motherfucker.

One of those huge gas powered concrete saw or something? That would be terrifying.

[WanderingWind]

Is it bad that I would actually considering working for Academi (Blackwater) or another PMC if they had use for a CS major? Obviously it wouldn't be field work though.

CS as in computer science? Motherfucker, you are in crazy demand right now. Probably more so than infantry guys.

[Malleymal]

one of my friends who is about 6-5 270 all muscle used to be in the marines and served for a while in Afghanistan told me about some of his encounters and a couple things that he "had" to do. I get a little freaked out because I wouldn't hurt anyone that didn't deserve it and he had to do it.

[Tomat]

CS as in computer science? Motherfucker, you are in crazy demand right now. Probably more so than infantry guys.

Yeah, Computer Science. I'd like to shoot for a government job, but I don't think I would mind a few PMC's either. Still got two years to go thought and I need to get some real work experience under my belt.

[Pecan1]

What are some of your opinions about this contractor/merc/ whatever compared to the men and women serving the USA by remotely piloting attack drones?

There are lots of situations where private security firms are the only reasonable solution to a security issue. Why would a governments military be preferred to a PMC in a security situation for a corporation; I certainly find it believable that certain corporations in certain situations find security professionals necessary.