[StevieP]

More than 8GB in total for Durango? Hard to believe.

I think he meant 8

[eastmen]

Just because MS having more money than Sony doesn't mean they will make a powerful console. Didnt MS had more money back in 05-06 and Sony still made a more powerful console?

Well the 360 was released in holiday 05 and the ps3 was released in holiday 06 . The end results were pretty similar with only a storage space advantage on sonys side from what many can state.

At the end of the day a 360 released in 2006 would have been more powerful.


MS is in a space where they can subsidise a more expensive console over sony this gen. The question is only if they are willing to do so and really by how much. I think at the end of the day if they both launch 2013 holiday a $50 diffrence wont make a huge deal unless its put into ram.

[Fancy Corndog]

Yeah it would be impressive. Would probably even mean PS4 could run modern PC games at medium-high specs.

You realize that there are going to be PS4 games that look entirely beyond anything on PC right now right?

As far as PS3 vs. 360 is concerned, the difference seems to have been negligible. It is more powerful, but the difference is not enough to make up for the year that they lost. It would be interesting to see Microsoft follow a similar strategy after their success this generation, but I guess we'll see if it ends up paying off for them even though it didn't for Sony.

[Lovely Salsa]

The current PC games are nothing to brag about, most games are made in consoles in mind. The next gen will look much better than anything we have right now

[AgentP]

At the end of the day a 360 released in 2006 would have been more powerful. .

That is not a sound conclusion. Release date could have little to do with the freshness of the CPU/GPU parts used. The PS3 was late due to BD, HDMI, etc. But the technology inside was not newer than the 360.

[Lovely Salsa]

That is not a sound conclusion. Release date could have little to do with the freshness of the CPU/GPU parts used. The PS3 was late due to BD, HDMI, etc. But the technology inside was not newer than the 360.

Yeah, but thats the thing. If PS3 didn't use Bluray, it would've released in 2005. It was delayed thanks to that

[CorrisD]

Well the 360 was released in holiday 05 and the ps3 was released in holiday 06 . The end results were pretty similar with only a storage space advantage on sonys side from what many can state. At the end of the day a 360 released in 2006 would have been more powerful.

Except that logic doesn't hold up, they were both designed at the same time, the PS3 was suppose to come out a few months after the 360, early 2006 iirc, but got delayed which is why there is a year gap but no noticeable hardware difference.

[OrangeOak]

Don't kid yourself. If you still think PS3 is inferior to 360- even with all the MS backing, PS3 still and continues to release better looking games- exclusive or not, I don't care; I just view the results.

You know that if something isn't better it doesn't automatically make it inferior ?
It's like there is no room for "pretty much equal" here, there must be a clear "winner" or there is no order in the world.

[onQ123]

so PS Vita has a type of stacked memory?

Sony’s PS Vita Uses Chip-on-Chip SiP – 3D, but not 3D

[mhayze]

The black magic always happens on consoles though. PC games don't move to the next-generation before consoles usher it in. Then they tag along and run it on higher settings. Whether it's a port or not, almost all of the software advancement comes from consoles. It's not to say that 'PC has no gamez' or something, it's just acknowledging that console developers are going to squeeze something out of current mid-range PC tech that looks completely impossible even by tomorrow's high-end standards.

Highly incorrect.

[phosphor112]

so PS Vita has a type of stacked memory? Sony’s PS Vita Uses Chip-on-Chip SiP – 3D, but not 3D

Hmm. that's pretty cool. Hint at stacked memory for PS4? If the tech is there.. why not?

[Death Dealer]

but got delayed which is why there is a year gap but no noticeable hardware difference.

Agreed.

And I've read this generation was a fluke. It's unusual to have two competing systems, with such different designs, to have such close practical capabilities. The upcoming generation, the systems will likely have more distinguishing characteristics. Especially if the common rumor holds true that PS4 has more gpu power but the MS system has a lot more memory. It's easy to see how games, third party and first party, could have wildly different strengths and weaknesses. That's compared to this gen, where it was usually the case of third party games looking 90% the same, with some bad PS3 ports taking resolution/IQ and/or performance hits. Sony first party does seem to accomplish more than MS. How much that was due to hw or budgets, I don't know.

[CorrisD]

so PS Vita has a type of stacked memory? Sony’s PS Vita Uses Chip-on-Chip SiP – 3D, but not 3D

To check I read some of that right, the Vita actually comes with 4gb flash but is used by what looks like the operating system itself and such like for trophies and other information that wouldn't other wise be on a memory card.

They should have let users access 1gb or at minimum 512mb for saves, users could atleast play games straight off buying a Vita then.

So this 4GB I imagine will be used in the same way the 16GB would be in the rumour for the PS4?

[Mario007]

To check I read some of that right, the Vita actually comes with 4gb flash but is used by what looks like the operating system itself and such like for trophies and other information that wouldn't other wise be on a memory card. They should have let users access 1gb or at minimum 512mb for saves, users could atleast play games straight off buying a Vita then. So this 4GB I imagine will be used in the same way the 16GB would be in the rumour for the PS4?

I don't know much about RAM and the different types of it but come to think of it isn't 512MB of RAM and 128 of V-RAM for Vita too little considering that mid-to-high end smarphones now come with 1 GB minimum?

Speaking of Vita and specs would people say a 50 euro price cut is out of question come Christmas? Because the way I look at it most smarphones drop 50 euro in price after around half a year. With Vita using off the shelf smartphone parts from my understanding, such a price cut could very well happen without infringing on the bottom line for Sony, right?

[onQ123]

Hmm. that's pretty cool. Hint at stacked memory for PS4? If the tech is there.. why not?

it's not TSV but it's still stacked with the 2 different memories stacked on the SOC the PS4 might have TSV stacked chips or it could be just stacked in the same way the Vita SOC is stacked either way this could mean faster memory bandwidth & maybe a smaller cheaper PS4.

which also has me wondering if the new PS3 will have Cell , RSX & the memory stacked in one SOC? maybe not but that could make for a really small PS3.

[sTeLioSco]

I don't know much about RAM and the different types of it but come to think of it isn't 512MB of RAM and 126 of V-RAM for Vita too little considering that mid-to-high end smarphones now come with 1 GB minimum?

the high-end smartphones cost 500+,but you just get them usually 99/199 with a contract....

vita is 249 with a 5" screen and 256+128 ram with quad core.

[onQ123]

To check I read some of that right, the Vita actually comes with 4gb flash but is used by what looks like the operating system itself and such like for trophies and other information that wouldn't other wise be on a memory card. They should have let users access 1gb or at minimum 512mb for saves, users could atleast play games straight off buying a Vita then. So this 4GB I imagine will be used in the same way the 16GB would be in the rumour for the PS4?

that caught my eye too wonder what it's being used for & why haven't we heard anything about this 4GB?

[Mario007]

the high-end smartphones cost 500+,but you just get them usually 99/199 with a contract.... vita is 249 with a 5" screen and 256+128 ram with quad core.

yeah sorry forgot about the price consideration. I was merely thinking about with regards the performance and issues with it that could happen a few years down the road.

[onQ123]

the high-end smartphones cost 500+,but you just get them usually 99/199 with a contract.... vita is 249 with a 5" screen and 256+128 ram with quad core.

that's 512 + 128 ram.


but something to think about now is Nexus 7 $199


Quad core, 1300 MHz CPU


NVidia GeForce 12-core GPU


1GB Ram

7in screen

[sTeLioSco]

that's 512 + 128 ram. but something to think about now is Nexus 7 $199 Quad core, 1300 MHz CPU NVidia GeForce 12-core GPU 1GB Ram 7in screen

yes 512+128 even better
quad core cpu and quad core gpu

nexus 7 is sold cheaply so Google can make profit on content sales (supposedly at break even)
vita has 2 cameras,rear touchpad and other stuff that a tablet don't have

(and the 12 core is a bit marketing)

[onQ123]

yes 512+128 even better quad core cpu and quad core gpu nexus 7 is sold cheaply so Google can make profit on content sales (supposedly at break even) vita has 2 cameras,rear touchpad and other stuff that a tablet don't have (and the 12 core is a bit marketing)

um? Sony is also selling the Vita cheaply so they can make money on content sales & for the same price as the Vita you get the Nexus 7 with 16GB of storage & yes Vita has more parts but they better start thinking about a price drop with Tablets like the Nexus 7 hitting the market at $199.

[phosphor112]

I'm not trying to pick a fight with you, but the tone you used bugged me a bit. As a former developer on GAF I find myself constantly fighting the urge to write things that might confer an unintended impression of smugness and assumed superiority, when all I'm really trying to do is communicate basic things that life/work experiences have taught me over the years.

Do you not realize who you are replying to? Even when this guy has "nice" posts it's filled of that exact smugness and superiority that you try to avoid yourself.

[Thunder Monkey]

Do you not realize who you are replying to? Even when this guy has "nice" posts it's filled of that exact smugness and superiority that you try to avoid yourself.

Well I think it's cute.

So what everybody thinking today?

Pants off, oil wrestling with Mila Kunis generational hardware shift? Or oil wrestling with your fleshy touchy uncle generational shift?

[spwolf]

um? Sony is also selling the Vita cheaply so they can make money on content sales & for the same price as the Vita you get the Nexus 7 with 16GB of storage & yes Vita has more parts but they better start thinking about a price drop with Tablets like the Nexus 7 hitting the market at $199.

especially since it has 12 cores, so it will be at least 3x faster than Vita, right? :-).

[Confiture]

that's 512 + 128 ram. but something to think about now is Nexus 7 $199 Quad core, 1300 MHz CPU NVidia GeForce 12-core GPU 1GB Ram 7in screen

The SGX543MP4+ in Vita destroys the Tegra 3 gpu though.

[specialguy]

The SGX543MP4+ in Vita destroys the Tegra 3 gpu though.

Destroys? From what little I recall they trade blows. Anyway I'm sure Tegra 4 is right around the corner for the same price.

[Canis lupus]

Its no secret smartphone chips will be faster than the Vita ones in some time. But I dont think we'll see graphically more advanced games on them, they get stronger every year. Releasing a graphics heavy game that can only be played by the top 3 smartphones is limiting your audience.

[Confiture]

Destroys? From what little I recall they trade blows. Anyway I'm sure Tegra 4 is right around the corner for the same price.

Well gpu wise it's even weaker than the sgx543mp2 in the ipad 2:
http://www.anandtech.com/show/5663/a...ew-apple-ipad/

[jerd21]

Its no secret smartphone chips will be faster than the Vita ones in some time. But I dont think we'll see graphically more advanced games on them, they get stronger every year. Releasing a graphics heavy game that can only be played by the top 3 smartphones is limiting your audience.

Also, I would imagine it would be fairly expensive for the dev. I'm not entirely sure how the process works, but wouldn't putting a large/talented team to make a gorgeous game with any kind of depth for a smart phone that will sell for $7-$10 per copy yield much less profit than one that would sell for $40 plus? You could sell 1/4th of the copies and still make more money. Personally, I can't imagine any deep or immersive (by my definition i suppose) gameplay experience with only a touchscreen.

[sTeLioSco]

Also, I would imagine it would be fairly expensive for the dev. I'm not entirely sure how the process works, but wouldn't putting a large/talented team to make a gorgeous game with any kind of depth for a smart phone that will sell for $7-$10 per copy yield much less profit than one that would sell for $40 plus? You could sell 1/4th of the copies and still make more money. Personally, I can't imagine any deep or immersive (by my definition i suppose) gameplay experience with only a touchscreen.

you can have a powerful phone or tablet but when you develop you take into consideration all devicdes tha will run on.

apple is in a better situation in this aspect. vita is one device only developing especially for that.

lets see if assasins creed vita visualy is any good and the next wave of games that will be released after a while that the device was realeased....

[Durante]

The SGX543MP4+ in Vita destroys the Tegra 3 gpu though.

Yeah, absolutely.

Destroys? From what little I recall they trade blows.

Nah, "destroys" is the correct term. But the way Nvidia use "core" in their Tegra marketing is cute. With their terminology, SGX543MP4 is a 64-core GPU.

[onQ123]

especially since it has 12 cores, so it will be at least 3x faster than Vita, right? :-).

no & the post wasn't even about the 12 cores I was just pointing out that the Nexus 7 was $199 because he was saying that the Smart phones with specs like the Vita were over $500 without a contract.

[DemonCleaner]

Yeah it would be impressive. Would probably even mean PS4 could run modern PC games at medium-high specs.

well, the last modern pc game was released in 2007. so thats not that much of a benefit.

[onQ123]

I know this is way out there, but what if Google is helping with the PS4 R&D just to insure that Microsoft don't take over the TV.

even MS expects PS4 to be a Google TV box,

if you're Google you would want the PS4 in as many homes as possible & at a good price because you don't want AppleTV & whatever MS has planed to be the standard for internet TV.

[Canis lupus]

I know this is way out there, but what if Google is helping with the PS4 R&D just to insure that Microsoft don't take over the TV. even MS expects PS4 to be a Google TV box, if you're Google you would want the PS4 in as many homes as possible & at a good price because you don't want AppleTV & whatever MS has planed to be the standard for internet TV.

I'd love a Google+Sony front against MS+Apple.

[USC-fan]

I know this is way out there, but what if Google is helping with the PS4 R&D just to insure that Microsoft don't take over the TV. even MS expects PS4 to be a Google TV box, if you're Google you would want the PS4 in as many homes as possible & at a good price because you don't want AppleTV & whatever MS has planed to be the standard for internet TV.

That would be a killer app.. hope that is true. Doubtful since Sony like to keep it a close box.

[Canis lupus]

That would be a killer app.. hope that is true. Doubtful since Sony like to keep it a close box.

(former)Linux support, Steam, indie friendly psn says hi.

[onQ123]

That would be a killer app.. hope that is true. Doubtful since Sony like to keep it a close box.

if Apple is joining the Console race & MS is going all out on Multimedia stuff for the Xbox Next a closed box might not get fed.

[USC-fan]

(former)Linux support, Steam, indie friendly psn says hi.

Way different then letting this party app on the console that they have no control over.

[J-Rzez]

I know this is way out there, but what if Google is helping with the PS4 R&D just to insure that Microsoft don't take over the TV. even MS expects PS4 to be a Google TV box, if you're Google you would want the PS4 in as many homes as possible & at a good price because you don't want AppleTV & whatever MS has planed to be the standard for internet TV.

I thought this could happen since it seems that Google and Sony had a close relationship with their products in support, but I think Sony wants 100% control. IF they did do this though, it'd be a killer combo.

[i-Lo]

There have been some first party studious that have been quiet in recent times. Namely, GG and Sucker Punch. Makes me wonder if they'll be releasing the 4th and 3rd games in their respective franchises as launch titles for PS4.

[Mario007]

I thought this could happen since it seems that Google and Sony had a close relationship with their products in support, but I think Sony wants 100% control. IF they did do this though, it'd be a killer combo.

They did put out a Google TV (ie they were a partner for Google like Asus is for Nexus 7) but that might not have worked to Google's liking with the Nexus Q being a pure Google device. Also one has to wonder whether or not Sony would allow android games to be played on a PlayStation without taking any money from the ads or people buying it. Sure they could fork Android like Amazon and only have PS Mobile there but then Google wouldn't really want to partner with them.

[onQ123]

Way different then letting this party app on the console that they have no control over.

I think people have forgotten that Sony is a Hardware company who 1st got into the Video Game Business as a way to push their CD drive / hardware into more homes & if it came down to it they would make the hardware for the Xbox Next.

I wouldn't even be surprised if there is a Sony camera in the Kinect 2.


so a PS4 with Google TV or even Android isn't out of the question.

[Gemüsepizza]

They did put out a Google TV (ie they were a partner for Google like Asus is for Nexus 7) but that might not have worked to Google's liking with the Nexus Q being a pure Google device. Also one has to wonder whether or not Sony would allow android games to be played on a PlayStation without taking any money from the ads or people buying it. Sure they could fork Android like Amazon and only have PS Mobile there but then Google wouldn't really want to partner with them.

Sony just released a new version of a Google TV box:

http://www.engadget.com/2012/06/26/s...gle-tv-review/

...and they will include it in some of their Blu-ray players. This Google TV unit was supposed to have OnLive integration too, but they canceled it because of the Gaikai deal.

[Mario007]

Sony just released a new version of a Google TV box: http://www.engadget.com/2012/06/26/s...gle-tv-review/ ...and they will include it in some of their Blu-ray players. This Google TV unit was supposed to have OnLive integration too, but they canceled it because of the Gaikai deal.

That's exactly what I was referring to. However, you have to notice that Google itself has actually decided to enter the hardware market for Google TV in order to push it with Nexus Q. As I've said it'd be a very strange situation for Sony to allow android on ps4 (which, to my knowledge, they need to in order for Google TV to exist there) where people could play all Google Play games without a cent going into Sony's pocket.

[Gemüsepizza]

That's exactly what I was referring to. However, you have to notice that Google itself has actually decided to enter the hardware market for Google TV in order to push it with Nexus Q.

That review is about two weeks old. Seems like a short time to change your mind.

As I've said it'd be a very strange situation for Sony to allow android on ps4 (which, to my knowledge, they need to in order for Google TV to exist there) where people could play all Google Play games without a cent going into Sony's pocket.

I am sure they would be able to make an agreement. The PS3 sold over 60 million units, the PS4 will probably sell similar numbers. I think Sony has a strong position here, because this would be a great opportunity for Google, and both companies would only profit from such a cooperation. I don't think Android games are a threat to digital PS3/PS4 games available from PSN/SEN.

[Mario007]

That review is about two weeks old. Seems like a short time to change your mind.

Yeah true, still doesn't negate the fact that Google is directly competing with Sony now on the Google TV scene.

I am sure they would be able to make an agreement. The PS3 sold over 60 million units, the PS4 will probably sell similar numbers. I think Sony has a strong position here, because this would be a great opportunity for Google, and both companies would only profit from such a cooperation. I don't think Android games are a threat to digital PS3/PS4 games available from PSN/SEN.

If an agreement could be made for a share of profits from ps4 then I'd say Sony would go for it. Then again there's also the problems for other publishers and developers who will feel threatened by the availability of cheap or free games on the platform. Also why would a dev release a game on psn when they can release for relative cheaps on Google Play?

[USC-fan]

Google TV is very very unlikely. You have the hacking problem and also you need a certain remote for it towork .

[StevieP]

Well I think it's cute. So what everybody thinking today? Pants off, oil wrestling with Mila Kunis generational hardware shift? Or oil wrestling with your fleshy touchy uncle generational shift?

Why did no one respond to this? A shame I say! Lol

well, the last modern pc game was released in 2007. so thats not that much of a benefit.

2007? No, that's a pretty common though

[onQ123]

Google TV is very very unlikely. You have the hacking problem and also you need a certain remote for it to work .

& Sony would love to sell you this remote.