[Lamiafusion]

btw anybody remember these dragon ball cards? Me and my friends had a bunch of those. They were awesome.

I still have these. Found a bunch of awesome random DBZ collectables trying to move boxes in my basement.

[giancarlo123x]

Can't find the scans but im in for a new animation.

[NoTacos]

Good lord, at first glance I thought his thread was talking live action film and I almost had an aneurysm.

I don't know quite how to feel about DBZ being milked like this, especially since everything after the 90's rock version was so underwhelming.

[Mr. Fix]

And that's why I dislike the Buu saga so much, it's so inconsistent. Toriyama really went off the deep end - Cell Saga being the absolute height of the series.

So good. But despite how inconsistent the Buu saga is, there were moments/scenes that were awesome. Parts of the WT, SSJ3, Majin Vegeta, Fusion, Vegeto, the fight against Kid Buu. Despite how crazy powerlevels have gotten, some of those were iconic scenes too. I can't deny how much I loved the spotlight being put on Vegeta, and his relationship with Goku (Vegeta's Respect scene most notably). Although this came at the cost of most of the cast, especially my dawg Piccolo.

[Takao]

Can't find the scans but im in for a new animation.

There may or may not be scans of the pages in question on a linked site in the Op, there may or may not be. I dunno.

[Suairyu]

And that's why I dislike the Buu saga so much, it's so inconsistent. Toriyama really went off the deep end - Cell Saga being the absolute height of the series.

Maybe in manga form (I haven't read), but Cell was the absolute worst for pacing. I don't mean plot or episode to episode, but animation and action. Go watch any Cell saga fight on youtube and see how much of it is just characters slowly walking, reacting or doing constipation face.

It was so much worse than anything that had come before, like their budget got chopped massively.

That said, I don't think the fights had much dynacism to them past the Saiyan saga. Even as far back as the Piccolo Jnr world tournament, the slowly powering up, single-ultimate-move, "let's stand around reacting to each other!" rot was starting to set in.

[Reiko]

Maybe in manga form (I haven't read), but Cell was the absolute worst for pacing. I don't mean plot or episode to episode, but animation and action. Go watch any Cell saga fight on youtube and see how much of it is just characters slowly walking, reacting or doing constipation face. It was so much worse than anything that had come before, like their budget got chopped massively. That said, I don't think the fights had much dynacism to them past the Saiyan saga. Even as far back as the Piccolo Jnr world tournament, the slowly powering up, single-ultimate-move, "let's stand around reacting to each other!" rot was starting to set in.

The entire Android/Cell Arc was one big re-write after another. I think that was why the pacing in the Anime (Plus filler) suffered.

The original plan was for Androids #19 and #20 to be the main villains. Of course, Toriyama's editor didn't find them threatening, so he had to retcon them with Androids #17 and #18 being more powerful... And you guessed it... His editor didn't like their design either. So enter Cell. The rest is history.

[CB3]

Can we get Vegeta a win

[TruePrime]

Can we get Vegeta a win

What exactly would he win?

[CB3]

What exactly would he win?

A battle. Anything, for that matter.

[TruePrime]

A battle. Anything, for that matter.

I wouldn't mind seeing him kick the crap out of Goten and Trunks, god they are annoying.

[Backflip]

That was done because his voice actor died and didn't replace him out of respect for that.

I know that, but they've replaced other actors before. And this time, they'll have to replace Mr Satan's actor.

[Anth0ny]

I know that, but they've replaced other actors before. And this time, they'll have to replace Mr Satan's actor.

I still haven't heard the new voice actor. Daisuke Gouri IS Mr. Satan to me =(

[immortal-joe]

A battle. Anything, for that matter.

Vegeta has an affair with Chi Chi, Bulma catches them, he makes her join in. He puts some music and goes all threesome on their asses while looking at himself in the mirror - American Psycho style.

[ZoddGutts]

So Toriyama won't be involve? Well can't be worse than how GT turned out.... right?

[Takao]

So Toriyama won't be involve? Well can't be worse than how GT turned out.... right?

Did you read the OP? This is supposedly the most involved Toriyama has ever been in regards to the anime.

[ZoddGutts]

Did you read the OP? This is supposedly the most involved Toriyama has ever been in regards to the anime.

Only the bolded parts that you did, did not see Toriyama for script writing. Anyways I agree with other's here, they need to let the series die already.

[jaxword]

Only the bolded parts that you did, did not see Toriyama for script writing. Anyways I agree with other's here, they need to let the series die already.

Yeah, they should never revive franchises from people's childhoods and shoul

[Takao]

It's amazing how it's always the people who never show up in any Dragon Ball threads are the ones who say it should die rather than those who've been neck deep in it for years. I'm tired of the same rehashed garbage, but am eagerly awaiting something new. This is something new.

[Kokonoe]

This looks pretty good.

Ultimate Gohan? Seriously whatever happened there. EXPLAIN IT TO ME TAKAO.

From the other thread.

Buu saga is poorly written, it's not quite GT, but it's still pretty bad. 1. Gohan's personality completely changes, now that's not to say this isn't possible to change a bit, but Gohan was a completely different person in this arc. 2. Super Saiyan forms and transformation became essentially fodder. In the Cell saga, it was amazing that Gohan was even able to turn Super Saiyan at such an age, but this was due to the fact that he always had a mysterious power inside of him that he couldn't control for more than a few seconds. In the Buu saga, Goten becomes Super Saiyan sparring with his mother, completely degrading all the transformations that previous took place. Trunks had a similar transformation, and it wasn't due to circumstances and power that it was before. 3. Piccolo is made into a joke, and he was never as frightened and stiff like this ever before. He would fight practically anyone, even if he knew the circumstances weren't in his favor. He gets turned to stone in a blink of an eye by Dabura, which he could've dodged if he wasn't completely paralyzed by an irrational fear. Dabura's spit is also rather silly in itself with all the Z fighters have endured over the years, surely something like that wouldn't stop them. 4. Goku died defending the earth, and he left the earth up to Gohan. All the character development from since the Saiyan saga had Gohan going through all these trials, and all these comparisons to be that he was the one who would take over his fathers job as Earth's guardian. They completely disregarded all that development and brought Goku back as a main stay, even though his son was his replacement. It eventually gets to the point where Gohan dies for the very first time because he's knocked out on the ground and Buu destroys the planet with one move. 5. Buu's absorbing is ridiculous. In the fights with Gotenks VS Buu, Gohan VS Buu, etc, they fight as if they're equals or are more powerful. It doesn't make sense that a simple blob on Buu's body has the power to completely contain, and absorb them while rendering them completely useless. It happened to Gotenks while he was at full power. 6. The Mystic Gohan part makes absolutely no sense. It gets to a point where Gohan is training with this legendary Z Sword because with the training from it, it'll give him the strength to defeat Buu. He lifts up the sword, they break it eventually and out comes the previous Supreme Kai. He apparently is a Kai that fused with a random witch that apparently can unlock people's power. So he senses that Gohan has immense amount of power stored away that hasn't been unlocked (which Super Saiyan 2 was suppose to be this), and they unlock his power after 5 or more episodes. It was even a theme, all this build up, and what happens when he gets to Buu? After one episode, he is absolutely beat down by Buu and makes no offensive against Buu in any way, shape, or form. There's more I'm missing, but I'd have to revisit it some more. Buu saga was poorly written, but it's still okay to watch if you don't take it seriously.

[jaxword]

It's pretty damn obvious Toriyama was out of ideas and basically parodying himself at that point. In fairness it was 10 years and he was clearly burned out on Dragonball as a whole.

[GaimeGuy]

It's pretty damn obvious Toriyama was out of ideas and basically parodying himself at that point. In fairness it was 10 years and he was clearly burned out on Dragonball as a whole.

10? The Buu Saga?

The manga ended in August of 1995. the last DBZ episode aired a few months later, in January of 1996. We're talking closer to 20 years than we are 10

Funi spent longer localizing and dubbing all the anime episodes than Toei did making the episodes from scratch, actually.

[Takao]

10? The Buu Saga? The manga ended in August of 1995. the last DBZ episode aired a few months later, in January of 1996. We're talking closer to 20 years than we are 10 Funi spent longer localizing and dubbing all the anime episodes than Toei did making the episodes from scratch, actually.

What? The manga ran in Japan from 1984 to 1995. The anime's Japanese run was from 1986 to 1996. Funimation's dub did not take 10 years.

[GaimeGuy]

What? The manga ran in Japan from 1984 to 1995. The anime's Japanese run was from 1986 to 1996. Funimation's dub did not take 10 years.

Heh , I'm talking about DBZ specifically with regards to the anime.

[King Mystery]

Ever notice how in these fighting anime, the protagonist starts off on equal-footing with his friends in terms of fighting prowess, but as the series progresses, he becomes so powerful that his friends become useless in comparison?

[RawkHawk2010]

@Kokonoe: Saiyan/Human hybrids can achieve Super Saiyan much easier than pure Saiyans, though. All Gohan did for SSJ1 was think unhappy thoughts in the Hyperbolic Chamber, man!

The Buu saga brought back some of the whimsy of early Dragon Ball, while still remaining threatening all the same. It's my favorite.

[Kagari]

This looks pretty good. From the other thread.

Puts things into perspective. Truth be told I've only watched through it once because it's so inconsistently awful. The fact that DB Kai ended at Cell was a blessing in disguise.

[KamenSenshi]

@Kokonoe: Saiyan/Human hybrids can achieve Super Saiyan much easier than pure Saiyans, though. All Gohan did for SSJ1 was think unhappy thoughts in the Hyperbolic Chamber.

Well that plus being trained hard by Goku. From what Goku said after that training, he had his son nearly as his equal in terms of fighting technique. Of course it was all for nothing as Gohan is totally lame and loses or nearly loses most of his battles after that anyway.

[Kokonoe]

@Kokonoe: Saiyan/Human hybrids can achieve Super Saiyan much easier than pure Saiyans, though. All Gohan did for SSJ1 was think unhappy thoughts in the Hyperbolic Chamber, man! The Buu saga brought back some of the whimsy of early Dragon Ball, while still remaining threatening all the same. It's my favorite.

The reason Gohan was able to become super saiyan was due to the immense power he wasn't able to unlock entirely he has. We've seen it since Raditz. Not only that, but he didn't just think "unhappy" thoughts, he's fought all types of villains in DBZ before this occurred, and has trained in brutal conditions so many different times.

Goten sparring with his mother and Gohan obtaining Super Saiyan are completely different.

[jaxword]

Goten sparring with his mother and Gohan obtaining Super Saiyan are completely different.

Yeah, it was Toriyama wanting to bring more kids into the story to bring back the child-like attitude of DB.

[Kagari]

Well that plus being trained hard by Goku. From what Goku said after that training, he had his son nearly as his equal in terms of fighting technique. Of course it was all for nothing as Gohan is totally lame and loses or nearly loses most of his battles after that anyway.

Toriyama built all that up and then threw it all away in the Buu saga. Really irritates me to this day.

[jaxword]

Toriyama built all that up and then threw it all away in the Buu saga. Really irritates me to this day.

EVERYTHING Toriyama built up was thrown away by Buu, which just emphasizes how haphazard and random it was. His new editor clearly had lower quality control standards.

-The looooooooong awaited Goku vs Vegeta fight...ends with nothing. And then is declared not a real fight a bit later anyways.

-The aforementioned Gohan as the new hero with the new generation. You can even see how he tried to do this well, establishing new highschool characters and Videl and his bratty younger brother and friend. All of that leads to nothing.

-Spopobitchi beating Videl was one of the most BRUTAL fights in the entire series...and it amounts to nothing at all. Gohan vows revenge against this complete unkillable monster, setting up a great grudge for the series to run on...who is killed with a head pop. Also, Videl is healed instantly. All for nothing.

-The Supereme Kai is the closest thing to god in the series...and he ends up useless and doing nothing other than hanging around. Not even his info was very useful. All for nothing.

-Then there's Buu, whose backstory is never said until the very end, where he absorbed a bunch of Gods...which ALSO means nothing since we never saw the Gods before, don't care who they are and they aren't freed anyways so that also amounts to nothing.

-Toriyama could not come up with a good way to kill Buu, so that means EVERYONE's efforts up til the very end were for nothing. Only Goku could kill him.

See, with a good editor, random ideas can fit the narrative. The Ginyu force were stupid, but they FIT the Freeza army and the theme of the narrative and were still dangerous to some degree. The androids die, but their roles don't amount to nothing.

Toriyama's editor should have toned down the random wackiness and forced a coherent storyline into the Buu saga. Then maybe Gohan's character wouldn't have floundered so badly.

[Kokonoe]

Android 16 is one of my favorite characters in anime. That specific part where he gives his speech and dies which triggers Gohan is just amazing.

[Ashhong]

Whoa it's a full on theatrical release? I have no idea how the previous DB anime movies worked but I expected like a DVD or blu-ray. This just means I have to wait even longer to see it as it will probably never get any kind of theatrical release in the US..

[Host Samurai]

I liked the Buu saga. I think they should have stuck with the original Majin Fat Buu as the main villain. He was unpredictable, had retard strength and was pretty frighting. You never see giant fat bad guys as the main enemy. I loved how he would go from city to city and just turn everyone into food and eat them. That's nuts. Cell sucked as a villain. All his moves were giant rip offs and his Cell games was crap. He's already the strongest guy on the planet and what does he do for 10 days? wait for Goku to get stronger. What an idiot for a villain.

[Vice]

EVERYTHING Toriyama built up was thrown away by Buu, which just emphasizes how haphazard and random it was. His new editor clearly had lower quality control standards. -snip- See, with a good editor, random ideas can fit the narrative. The Ginyu force were stupid, but they FIT the Freeza army and the theme of the narrative and were still dangerous to some degree. The androids die, but their roles don't amount to nothing. Toriyama's editor should have toned down the random wackiness and forced a coherent storyline into the Buu saga. Then maybe Gohan's character wouldn't have floundered so badly.

From what I've read Toriyama wanted Gohan to be the main character, and keep Goku dead, but his editors kept pressuring him into having Goku be the hero. That explains why they set up so much stuff for Gohan only to have it be for nothing. You can see through everything after the Frieza fight that Gohan was being setup to be the main protagonist pretty clearly but meddling kept that from happening.

[Kagari]

Android 16 is one of my favorite characters in anime. That specific part where he gives his speech and dies which triggers Gohan is just amazing.

Yeah, really great stuff. His death was really heartbreaking.

From what I've read Toriyama wanted Gohan to be the main character, and keep Goku dead, but his editors kept pressuring him into having Goku be the hero. That explains why they set up so much stuff for Gohan only to have it be for nothing. You can see through everything after the Frieza fight that Gohan was being setup to be the main protagonist pretty clearly but meddling kept that from happening.

I wish Toriyama would have just told them no :/ they totally ruined his vision.

[GaimeGuy]

Yeah, really great stuff. His death was really heartbreaking. I wish Toriyama would have just told them no :/ they totally ruined his vision.

Actually I believe it was fan backlash more than the editors. Everyone wanted more goku, and some more vegeta, and screw everyone else.

Buu Saga should have ended with vegeta's sacrifice

[Kagari]

Actually I believe it was fan backlash more than the editors. Everyone wanted more goku, and some more vegeta, and screw everyone else. Buu Saga should have ended with vegeta's sacrifice

Ugh, personally I never liked him after the original DB.

[Confused101]

Teen Gotenks SSJ3?

Teen Gotenks SSJ3.

Why the fuck did Piccolo ever get in the middle of that? WHY?

Oh, that's right. GT doesn't exist. I almost forgot.

[TruePrime]

Actually I believe it was fan backlash more than the editors. Everyone wanted more goku, and some more vegeta, and screw everyone else. Buu Saga should have ended with vegeta's sacrifice

Got to admit I was with them.

For as badly as some of the Buu saga is, I always disliked Gohan and was very happy to see Goku come back. My favorite moment in the series is during Buu so I can't hate all of it even if it is the most average out of the three.

[A Pretty Panda]

Well they've been building Gohan up since the start. It's only the beginning of the Buu saga that completely tampered with that (completely unnecessary), by having made Gohan into a bookworm.

I kinda doubt Toriyama had some sort of grand plan for Gohan when he introduced him.

[TacticalFox88]

Toriyama's contributions to animated Dragon Ball works.

Essentially meaning it's canon, no matter how many want to cry that it's not. He pretty much allowed it to happen, and never explicitly said it wasn't. Otherwise he would've done so LONG ago.

[A Pretty Panda]

Ugh, personally I never liked him after the original DB.

That's strange since pretty much all of Z has a strong emphasis on Goku. Like the whole damn thing.

Saiyan Arc- Wait for Goku to get back from being dead

Frieza Arc- Wait for Goku to get back from healing himself

Cell Arc- Wait for Goku to get back from a heart disease. And even when Gohan defeats Cell he says something like "oh I totally couldn't have done it without my father coaching me and stuff"

GOKU he's here to show you!
He's gonna help you find a waaaaay
GOKU he's here to show you!
He and his friends are gonna save the daaaaaaaaaay

I friggin hate Gohan, so awful

[Reiko]

Got to admit I was with them. For as badly as some of the Buu saga is, I always disliked Gohan and was very happy to see Goku come back. My favorite moment in the series is during Buu so I can't hate all of it even if it is the most average out of the three.

Gohan is the most powerful unfused person on Earth and he couldn't catch an earring?

Stupid writing. I'm sure Toriyama felt annoyed writing that.

[TruePrime]

Gohan is the most powerful unfused person on Earth and he couldn't catch an earring? Stupid writing. I'm sure Toriyama felt annoyed writing that.

Don't know if he did or not. Don't really care either, DBZ is over and it is what it is. I still got my SSJ3 Transformation and Gohan died so I was happy in the end, well not completely but it could have been much worse for me.

[KamenSenshi]

Gotta agree with the dislike of Gohan and wanting Goku back. Gohan had too many free powerups throughout the series while everyone else worked for it. I guess its the fact that with all the training its like the 80's(which 8 liked) for everyone but Gohan who is just supposed to be strong because, then he gets a power unlock on Namek and then mystic. I know part of it is the whole hybrid thing but he was such a pathetic waste, he should be the son of Krillin and Launch. Even if Gohan were more powerful, he still wouldn't measure up to the fighter Tien was, much less Goku.

[Kokonoe]

I suppose getting beat within an inch of his life by Piccolo isn't earning. Not only that, he is a Saiyan just like Goku and is the son of Goku. It makes sense.

[KamenSenshi]

He's a half saiyan who doesn't have the drive or determination that others possess due to the fact that he's a hybrid, or he was just not that into fighting/world saving. His "training" with Piccolo was basically just a easy day for kid Goku, camping in the wilderness. When they did start actual fight work sure he showed some skill, he's Goku's son. Doesn't change the fact that when it comes down to it, in every situation when he could have done something he either ran or was frozen with fear. For all the mystic power up did to his power level all it took for Buu to beat him was to get in a few blows then call him out for being pathetic. Left him cowering beside a cliff hiding. I will agree with you that it would have made sense to try and put him as the next protector of earth, but it wouldn't work.

[shadyspace]

Goku was too care free for me to ever be able to relate to. Gohan as a kid with the weight of the world on his shoulders, struggling to live up to his father's legacy circa Cell Saga was the best character the show ever had.