[brucewaynegretzky]

Is Robin seriously that much more realistic in the comics? I'm familiar as far as Blake just being a greatest hits combo of all of them, on top of being totally unexpected.

No. He's not based on ANY of them at all. Also, what "realism" are you talking about? The concept of "realism" is by far the most annoying metric applied to comic book movies, particularly DC movies, since the characters are such archetypal figures.

[SpeedingUptoStop]

Speaking of full circle or whatever, Gordon functions in a similar role in the big action climax of this to what he did in the big action climax of BB.

Man, mostly unrelated, but I still get chills when Gordon says WE HAVE TO SAVE DENT! I...HAVE TO SAVE DENT!!

So powerless to all the madness that surrounds him.

[Korey]

Elaborating on The Bad:


1. Bane’s whacky dubbed voiceover seems really out of place.

Right from the beginning, you know there's something wrong with Bane's voice. It's kind of wack and clownish. Later on you get used to it but it's still a little too theatrical and weird. Aside from that, there's also something weird about the dubbing. Like his voice exists outside of whatever they're showing on the screen.

2. Thugs and cops charge each other Braveheart-style...with guns.

So freaking terrible. So the thugs happen to be on this side and the cops are marching on that side. They have a showdown and start charging each other...while both sides are armed with guns. Also, the thugs are positively spraying the cops with bullets and like one or two fall down. Looks like they tripped.

3. Weird ass twist comes out of nowhere and goes nowhere.

She's a villain for all of two minutes. Her motivations aren't all that compelling. Would have made as much sense if she just suddenly yelled "INSERT TWIST!!!"

4. Nonsensical plot

What's Bane's deal? Why does he wear a mask? Why's he so pissed? Who is Miranda? First she's trying to get an audience with Bruce, then she throws a charity, then Bruce sleeps with her, then she's a board member, then she's CEO. Why is the bomb set for five months? What was the point of saying a regular person had the detonator? Do people not have boats? What's Selene's connection with Bane? Why is Bruce Wayne initially injured? Why is JGL so mad at Gordon? How did JGL know where to find Gordon from the sewers?

5. Batman always knows exactly where and when to be somewhere.

First, he saves Gordon and co moments before they would have died on the ice. Then right after that, he somehow knows where JGL is (some random location in the middle of nowhere) and saves him moments before he dies. Later, Selene saves Batman right before he's about to die.

6. Why does a kid idolize Batman if he’s been gone for 8 years?

"Do you think he'll be back?" What do you know, kid? You were 1 year old when he went away.

7. Alfred’s conflict was so random and weird it was almost comical.

STOP TRYING TO SAVE PEOPLE AND SHIT. I WANT YOU TO HAVE A WIFE AND KIDS, DAMMIT. THAT'S IT I QUIT. ALSO MAGGIE GYLLENHAAL DIDNT LIKE YOU. I'M LEAVING!

8. 6-7 year-old Talia is apparently Super Mario.

So this four foot tall kid can somehow out-jump adults by sheer force of will?

9. Why/how did Talia find her dad? He left before she was born.

You're like 6-7 years old. You escape a dungeon. Somehow you randomly seek out and find your dad who you've never met and know nothing about since he left before you were even born. He doesn't even know you. What the fuck?

10. Gotham citizens killing people for being rich is a little over the top.

I find it hard to believe that if this happened IRL regular citizens would just start sentencing rich people to death for being rich.

11. The Bat doesn’t look like a bat.

It doesn't look as cool as it could have. Looked kind of generic. Minor point.

12. So I guess nobody in Europe recognizes Bruce Wayne?

He's sitting there in public looking like himself. Nobody there recognizes him even though he's always in the news? At least wear a hat or something.

13. Joseph Gordon-Levitt is horrible. Like on Jeremy Renner levels.

He's not lead actor material, nor should he be an action star and the very implication of it offends me deeply.

Previous reviews:

The Amazing Spider-Man (7/10)
The Avengers (9/10)

[Dead]

Was the opening scene of Gordon talking about Dent a flashback to TDK or a new scene? I cant remember.

Either way I liked how it opened the film.

[DMczaf]

I could have done without the Dent flashback, but I loved the flashback of his dad and Gordon's flashback with Young Bruce.



I really can't wait to do a trilogy screening at home where an Old Man can take naps between movies.

Was the opening scene of Gordon talking about Dent a flashback to TDK or a new scene? I cant remember. Either way I liked how it opened the film.

It wasn't in TDK, so I have no idea. Maybe it was shot for TDK but saved for this?

[Scullibundo]

Too much stating of ideas and intents out loud when they were already obvious from what was happening on-screen.

SO THAT'S WHAT THAT FEELS LIKE

[FlashbladeGAF]

Dammit I want to see it again just to see Gordon at the end at the statue. I can't remember his face and what it looked like.

maybe he felt deja vu, ...like here was yet another secret he had to keep from the rest of the people of Gotham

[Cloudy]

If we're playing the ideal reboot game I'm gonna throw something a little less traditional out there: Gotham Central.

That won't make any money.

[rollingstart]

I can't wait until someone compares all the scenes shot similarly between Begins and TDKR. Ra's in prison. Monorail crashing / Truck crashing. The well and the pit. They rhyme.

[wetwired]

Did anyone else get chills when Batman told Gordon who he was? The flashback kind of ruined it, but I think that's the first time a line of dialogue has ever given me a spine tingling feeling. Maybe it's because I adore Begins so much, but that moment made the movie for me.

No cause I couldn't understand wtf he said, I dunno what was up with my cinema but there was issues with dialog all over the shop, not just bane but batman, gordon, whole lines I just missed entirely.

If it wasn't for that flashback I would have had no idea what he said.

[SpeedingUptoStop]

I really can't wait to do a trilogy screening at home where an Old Man can take naps between movies.

you lack the will to do what is necessary!!

[Speevy]

There was not one flashback that was necessary. Complete lack of faith in the audience.

You gotta admit that expecting the umpteen gazillion people who only saw Dark Knight and not BB to remember Ras Al Ghul is a gamble.

I agree that they could have handled reintroducing the character better, but the massive gulf between the fanbase of BB and TDK is something they could not ignore.

[brucewaynegretzky]

That won't make any money.

I can dream. Hell if Luther is gonna get a feature film I see no reason why they can't do Gotham Central.

[Inferno313]

Was the opening scene of Gordon talking about Dent a flashback to TDK or a new scene? I cant remember. Either way I liked how it opened the film.

It was new scene from the funeral in the ending of TDK.

[JB1981]

Your review is terrible

[Solo]

Dammit I want to see it again just to see Gordon at the end at the statue. I can't remember his face and what it looked like.

He was pretty pleased by the new Bat symbol, I can tell you that. In fact, I really liked how ALL 5 of the people who know Batman's identity found out he was alive:

- Lucious from the autopilot
- Blake from Bruce's will
- Gordon from the bat symbol
- Selina from being with him, duh
- Alfred from the Florence cafe

[Crunched]

Was the opening scene of Gordon talking about Dent a flashback to TDK or a new scene? I cant remember. Either way I liked how it opened the film.

It seemed to be a continuation of his final scene in TDK, but I am not sure due to the time passing.

[Ninja Scooter]

We really needed that handy dandy chart. Thanks.

[DMczaf]

In my showing there were more gasps for Scarecrow returning than there was for Ra's :(

[-Pyromaniac-]

You gotta admit that expecting the umpteen gazillion people who only saw Dark Knight and not BB to remember Ras Al Ghul is a gamble. I agree that they could have handled reintroducing the character better, but the massive gulf between the fanbase of BB and TDK is something they could not ignore.

that's why I keep saying that I personally thought some flashbacks were pointless, but at the same time I totally get it, so it didn't BOTHER me.

[Reagan's BR]

The flashbacks didn't really bother me. The one at the end with Gordon was fine even though I remembered the scene from BB. Actually, the flashback reminded me of the gravity of Gordon's gesture. That one little gesture sparked a partnership and friendship between him and Batman and Gordon just realized it at the end.

[ViewtifulJC]

I hope I'm not the only one who was reminded of this for the finale:

[jasonng]

-Ra's disappearing was stupid -Alfred's dialogue at the gravesite was cut way too short so I couldn't get emotionally invested -Bane's death was so fucking stupid, anti-climactic and horribly shot/edited -Talia's reveal was way too close to the end, and like Bane died in a very anti-climactic way -Nolan still cannot direct action -lots of jarring running shots that try to simulate intensity -actually showing Bruce at the cafe at the end was god awful terribly stupid-- we would have "gotten it" without that shot -entire third act felt like a 24 season finale with cliche ticking time bomb -flying the Bat away from Gotham with the bomb was just weird and felt out of place -Alfred leaving, I didn't buy it (though the scene was good) -Selina's friend served no purpose -too many great moments get the shaft in editing while more cumbersome things take their time -couldn't make out half of Bane's dialogue -Talia was underdeveloped and left no impression on me And this is just after one screening. Super let down by this.

I agree with this. Kind of surprised you didn't mention JGL.

[Solo]

I really can't wait to do a trilogy screening at home where an Old Man can take naps between movies.

Indeed. I'm doing this at Xmas.

Watch BB. Have nap. Eat. Watch TDK. Have nap. Eat. Watch TDKR. I'm not too old for this shit!

[brandonh83]

did anyone else LOL hard at that shot, when Talia was dying, of the three of them staring at her, almost right at the camera? it was one of the most unintentionally hilarious DERP shots I think I've ever seen.

talking about completely killing any dramatic tension that, well, the scene didn't have, so whatever, I don't suppose it actually hurt anything.

[CosmicGroinPull]

This is absolutely my biggest complaint about the movie. I can't believe anyone wouldn't know how the movie was going to end after that scene.

[Man, page count swells to twice what it was when I left.]


I didn't. Bruce was still in death-wish final-mission mode then. For that to happen, he must not only choose to live, but choose to be happy as well. I wasn't sure even when he hauled the bomb off.

[Biggest-Geek-Ever]

The movie could have hit even higher heights if Nolan had some more faith in his audience. That instance, Rhas disappearing Ghost style, Dent flashbacks, etc. None were necessary.

To be fair, there are A LOT of people who have not seen Begins but will see this. I'd say Nolan's lack of faith in the majority of audiences not "getting it" is completely justifiable here.

[ryutaro's mama]

He was pretty pleased by the new Bat symbol, I can tell you that. In fact, I really liked how ALL 5 of the people who know Batman's identity found out he was alive: - Lucious from the autopilot - Blake from Bruce's will - Gordon from the bat symbol - Selina from being with him, duh - Alfred from the Florence cafe

How did Bruce leaving him the BatCave lead Blake to know he was still alive?

I didn't get that at all.

[nckillthegrimace]

Elaborating on The Bad: 4. Nonsensical plot What's Bane's deal? Why does he wear a mask? Why's he so pissed? Who is Miranda? First she's trying to get an audience with Bruce, then she throws a charity, then Bruce sleeps with her, then she's a board member, then she's CEO. Why is the bomb set for five months? What was the point of saying a regular person had the detonator? Do people not have boats? What's Selene's connection with Bane? Why is Bruce Wayne initially injured?

Okay, I didn't like the movie, but you were clearly not paying attention at all.

[we.are.the.armada]

Just saw it. Hey, what happened to that blonde chick that was with Catwoman? I don't know if she was a lover or sister or something, I've never read the comics.

[DMczaf]

The flashbacks didn't really bother me. The one at the end with Gordon was fine even though I remembered the scene from BB. Actually, the flashback reminded me of the gravity of Gordon's gesture. That one little gesture sparked a partnership and friendship between him and Batman and Gordon just realized it at the end.

Stop it, you're going to get me to Alfred :_(

[Ithil]

"Some days you just can't get rid of a bomb!"

[SpeedingUptoStop]

Ra's flashbacks to his mercenary days just get to me. The actor they got was perfect. Looked like such a romantic, youthful ra's. Comparing him to the cold man in Begins is all the more tragic.

A retcon/ fleshing out of a story that wasn't there that truly enriches the character, Nolan you are so lovely.

[demosthenes]

@ Korey.

Your #4 makes it seem like you didn't even watch the movie to be asking those questions.

[Quick]

I walked in with just basic information (Bane being the villain, Selina Kyle being in it, and No Man's Land elements being in it, and info off the trailers) having almost avoided the threads and the OT for the most part, so I'd say I was almost blind (like a bat!) to the speculations going in.

Overall, the movie was pretty solid. Story was engaging, the cast were fantastic, the way everything just came together was great.

Pros:
- Christian Bale. Not a standout performance, but being the central character, he didn't let me down.
- Michael Caine. His scenes were some of the most powerful in the movie. Really heartbreaking when he and Bruce were in that hallway in Wayne Manor, and he revealed that Rachel chose Dent instead of him, and he had burned her letter, with Bruce telling him, "goodbye, Alfred". Even more heartbreaking when Alfred was standing over Thomas and Martha Wayne's grave telling them he failed them. The one constant thing that the movies got right was Bruce and Alfred's relationship. It's never been master and servant, but any combination of friends, father and son, and brothers.
- Anne Hathaway. I was neither excited nor unimpressed by her casting, but I had faith that she'd do a good job. She did a hell of a job, and I think a lot of people misjudged her when she was cast for the role. I wouldn't go so far as saying she was the standout, but with a cast already established and clearly "stitched" together, she managed to fit in just fine.
- Tom Hardy. He was pretty intimidating as Bane, especially after beating the shit out of Batman. When he placed his hand Daggett's shoulder, you feel the fear. His face was covered for the entire movie, but Tom Hardy was able to express emotion just with his eyes. Really pulled it off well.
- Joseph Gordon-Levitt's role as John Blake for the most part. Felt like he was overdoing the "hothead cop" thing at times, but he did a good job. The Robin reveal was pretty much Nolan winking at us. Ain't even mad, thought it was funny.
- Plot. Straightforward, easy to understand, which are what you'd really hope for in a movie plot in general. With The Dark Knight, there were multiple threads to follow that, on my first viewing, left me a bit confused as to what had happened (made sense after a second viewing). This time, you have just the one big one: "Gotham's Reckoning", with Bane and the League of Shadows' backstory supporting it.
- Bane vs. Batman, Round 1. I was literally cringing watching Bane beat the shit out of Batman, and ultimately breaking his back. Every punch felt deadly, and it was just really painful watching. Well done scene.
- No Man's Land. Having just read the series, it's all pretty fresh to me. Seeing Gotham's bridges blown up, the government telling everyone that they haven't abandoned the city, with food rations coming in, Gordon still keeping his police force (glad they didn't label themselves as the "Blue Boys" lol) planning on getting the city back themselves.
- Bane and Talia plot twist. All through the movie, I was legitimately convinced that it was Bane that climbed out of the pit, and they simply decided to make him Ra's son, rather than put Talia in the movie. Well played.
- Football game. Hey, it's the Steelers! Wait, no. The "Rouges". Pretty much that whole scene. Bane taking control, telling the people of Gotham that their city is theirs to take control of, then shooting Pavel since he was the only one who knew how to disable the bomb.

Cons:
- Miranda Tate. Pretty much a background character for the most part. Felt like they wasted Marion Cotillard for the role. I actually liked the Talia Al Ghul reveal, but her death was pretty terrible. Suddenly closing her eyes to indicate she was dead felt like they one-and-done'd it.
- Gotham. After Bane "gave" the city back to the citizens, it looked surprisingly...clean. I wasn't expecting it to be in No Man's Land levels of destruction and grime, but I wouldn't think that Bane would continue to employ city workers to clean up the streets, or something. Not a big deal in the grand scheme of things.
- Gotham cont'd. The city looked generic, with nothing unique about it. I had the same issue in The Dark Knight, where it felt like the city was very generic. It wasn't perfect, but the Gotham of Batman Begins had The Narrows and the rail system, which were unique enough to make up the identity of Gotham.

I didn't have an issue with Bane's voice for the most part. If anything, I had more of an issue with Gordon talking with the oxygen mask, since I didn't get one of the things he said to Bruce.

Will be watching this again soon. Maybe over the weekend.

[XANDER CAGE]

We really needed that handy dandy chart. Thanks.

"7/10 the bike was cool"

[krameriffic]

Both TDKR and BB are better than TDK. If you were to watch BB and TDKR together and then watch TDK separately you would agree.

I agree. They feel like more cohesive stories to me just because of the mythology of the League of Shadows origin story binding them together. TDK ends up feeling almost like a monster of the week episode of CSI, which is being horribly reductionist and downplaying its quality far too much, but that's kind of how I see it.

BB had such an impact on me because prior to that I didn't read the comics and knew nothing about the League of Shadows in the Batman mythos, and I thought it was a really fucking cool take on everything. Then TDK feels more like Heat with Batman taking Al Pacino's place. Then you get back to the stuff that I really loved from BB.

[Crunched]

I hope I'm not the only one who was reminded of this for the finale:

Excellent.

[Sojgat]

Is Robin seriously that much more realistic in the comics? I'm familiar as far as Blake just being a greatest hits combo of all of them, on top of being totally unexpected.

I have every issue of Tim Drake's different Robin titles so I'm totally biased, but yes there has been some great stuff done with the various Robins in the comics. John Blake was well acted but his character was kind of Meh.

No. He's not based on ANY of them at all. Also, what "realism" are you talking about? The concept of "realism" is by far the most annoying metric applied to comic book movies, particularly DC movies, since the characters are such archetypal figures.

No, he's a loose amalgamation of three of the four main Robins (there is no Damian in him the world's audiences could not deal with that much awesome).

[DMczaf]

Ra's flashbacks to his mercenary days just get to me. The actor they got was perfect. Looked like such a romantic, youthful ra's. Comparing him to the cold man in Begins is all the more tragic. A retcon/ fleshing out of a story that wasn't there that truly enriches the character, Nolan you are so lovely.

It was like Nolan looked at Spider-Man 3's retcon and went "Fuck it, I'll try it. I can do it better!"

[demosthenes]

Indeed. I'm doing this at Xmas. Watch BB. Have nap. Eat. Watch TDK. Have nap. Eat. Watch TDKR. I'm not too old for this shit!

Yeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeees.

Okay, I didn't like the movie, but you were clearly not paying attention at all.

Glad I'm not the only one that thought so.

[wetwired]

I was trying to figure out why I didn't like "The Bat" but I think I know why now, every time it's shown I felt completely disconnected from batman, the whole machine was fucking awesome but I felt removed from batman and the situation whenever he was in that thing.

I loathed the fact that after the awesome batpod chase they corner him and he flies off in the bat. I really didn't expect or want to see that thing so early in the film. Then for the next few scenes he's cruising around the city in it like a taxi.

I think the worst part involving it for me was when the camo tumblers guns were trained on the cops charging forward, the bat flies in from nowhere and takes out the gun, it may as well have been a robot for all the value that had to me, it would have been much more badarse to see batman take them out from on top of a building and then glide down with his cape and land on a tumbler dominating it.

[Grisby]

Was ok. Easily the, airquote, 'worst' of the three. Bane's voice was super annoying and a bit comical at times. The film felt wayyyy too bloated for what actually took place on screen. I went to the marathon and it was amazing how Begins and Knight had something about them which Rises truly lacked. Begins was more comic booky and paced better with Liam being awesome and Ledger stole the show in Dark Knight. Rising just felt 'empty' in a lot of ways.

The action was better though and that first Bane fight was brutal, very menacing. However, I was very let down with Batman's return and the subsequent fighting that took place. The chase scene just kind of petered out and Nolan not taking the plunge and having Bruce dying felt a bit like a cop out (who else called that ending a mile away?). For the universe and whats been going on I feel like things wrapped up a bit too nicely.

Yeah, I had some fun but I won't go a second time like I did with the first two.

[ViewtifulJC]

I had a real fanboy audience. I'm talking about the kind that applauds for The Hobbit trailer music when it starts up and cheers at BAGGINSEYS WHAT IS A BAGGINSEYS. They were like "oh shiiiiit" for Ra's, they totally got the Talia Al Ghul reveal, they cheered their little fanboy hearts out when random Catwoman/Batman fan service kiss happened, laughed when Scarecrow was revealed, etc. No idiots making stupid jokes, no cell phones, no texting, just people wanting to see the movie and were excited/knowledgeable about it as I was.

[Vyer]

"This is a stock exchange; there's no money to steal!"

"Really? Then why are you here?"

[Solo]

How did Bruce leaving him the BatCave lead Blake to know he was still alive? I didn't get that at all.

I think it was implied by how neatly everything was tied up in a bow for Black that Bruce had faked it. He obviously amended that will VERY recently to turn Wayne Manor into a boys home, to leave Robin the Batcave coordinates, etc. And Robin is a smart guy. For me that made it clear that he too knew Bruce was alive and had passed the torch to him.

[Speevy]

Just saw it. Hey, what happened to that blonde chick that was with Catwoman? I don't know if she was a lover or sister or something, I've never read the comics.

That's what I was wondering.

Is Catwoman a bisexual or does she have thief friends?

[ViewtifulJC]

did anyone else LOL hard at that shot, when Talia was dying, of the three of them staring at her, almost right at the camera? it was one of the most unintentionally hilarious DERP shots I think I've ever seen. talking about completely killing any dramatic tension that, well, the scene didn't have, so whatever, I don't suppose it actually hurt anything.

I can't believe Nolan went with that take. That shit seemed like something out of Batman and Robin.

[DMczaf]

"This is a stock exchange; there's no money to steal!" "Really? Then why are you here?"

I want Bane's 8 Mile notebook of awesome lines.

[Cloudy]

Saw the movie today, and I gotta say, I liked it more than the Dark Knight. Don't get me wrong, the Dark Knight is amazing, but this one's on a whole new level. I guess my question is, does NeoGAF agree with me?

I do :)