[empty vessel]

Ah, yeah I've seen a few theories floated around though. A lot say it should be lower than the private sector minimum, but there are a few that say like you are here that it becomes the minimum wage. You basically don't need a minimum, because if workers can get a higher wage job with the government they'll do that. Private sector would HAVE to pay higher.

Right, the private sector would have to hire away from the government with higher wages (or otherwise be more attractive). Ultimately, though, the wage is irrelevant, because it's just a random number. I mean, it should probably be set in relation to current wages to avoid disruption, but, once set, it basically establishes price stability (private wages, goods, services) around that wage, whatever the number is.

And to clarify: the purpose is not to compete with the private sector. It's to set a standard--like the gold standard--to stabilize prices. Labor is ideal for this purpose. Currently, the private sector is simply uninterested in hiring all the people who want to work. And since that amounts to social waste (unused labor), the government should hire that labor. As the economy improves, and the private sector wants to hire away people employed by the government, so be it.

[ErasureAcer]

Survey USA

Minnesota Voter ID Amendment is at 62-5% in favor with high 20's opposed. People in this state are dumb.

Klobuchar leads Republican challenger 55-31.

[Aaron Strife]

Survey USA Minnesota Voter ID Amendment is at 62-5% in favor with high 20's opposed. People in this state are dumb. Klobuchar leads Republican challenger 55-31.

In all fairness voter ID would probably pass everywhere. It's one of those things Republicans push that sound okay to an independent voter like a balanced budget amendment.

Also you should probably link this.

[Learn2read]

A report is saying Wisconsin lost 11,700 private sector jobs in June, and 1,500 government jobs. Along with that, the unemployment for Wisconsin jumped up to 7%. Along with that, apparently the new jobs agency is now predicted to run a $14 million deficit. Ouch.

good job not shitcanning Walker, WI

[RDreamer]

good job not shitcanning Walker, WI

I tried :(

[Stinkles]

In all fairness voter ID would probably pass everywhere. It's one of those things Republicans push that sound okay to an independent voter like a balanced budget amendment. Also you should probably link this.

ID-related voter fraud doesn't even make a dent in the margin of error. It SOUNDS reasonable, but frankly every single piece of voting legislation Republicans have mooted in the last decade IS voter fraud. I feel so strongly about this that I think that the origanizations and individuals bringing this legislation to bear, should be jailed for voter fraud.

[Frank the Great]

voter ID wouldn't be a big deal if the state governments made an effort to provide unique IDs to people, free of charge. as it is now, it is blatant voter suppression.

its funny how we used to brag about bringing democracy to the world . . . between limiting early voting days, voter ID laws, only having polls open on one weekday, corporate political advertising, and partisan gerrymandering, we are probably the least democratic of all modern republics. our piss poor turnout numbers reflect this.

[Aaron Strife]

good job not shitcanning Walker, WI

Whatever, you're just reading the biased shitty numbers. Walker will reveal his new numbers tomorrow where he polled everyone in his administration. 0% unemployment!

ID-related voter fraud doesn't even make a dent in the margin of error. It SOUNDS reasonable, but frankly every single piece of voting legislation Republicans have mooted in the last decade IS voter fraud. I feel so strongly about this that I think that the origanizations and individuals bringing this legislation to bear, should be jailed for voter fraud.

One thing that might help is that there's a lawsuit going on saying the voter ID amendment as written on the ballot is misleading, so it might be tossed out or rewritten.

Plus I feel like Democrats are going to take the legislature anyway and they'll probably pass a bill mailing voter IDs out to everyone free of charge.

[ErasureAcer]

Also you should probably link this.

There be'eth no link. KSTP.com should have it up but don't as I got the numbers from their At Issue political show this morning. Survey USA also doesn't appear to have it up either. Maybe they'll put it in the Presidential Poll story which will be announced on their 10pm news tonight.

[Stinkles]

Whatever, you're just reading the biased shitty numbers. Walker will reveal his new numbers tomorrow where he polled everyone in his administration. 0% unemployment! One thing that might help is that there's a lawsuit going on saying the voter ID amendment as written on the ballot is misleading, so it might be tossed out or rewritten. Plus I feel like Democrats are going to take the legislature anyway and they'll probably pass a bill mailing voter IDs out to everyone free of charge.

It is an accident of history and demographics, but right now we have a two party system where one party WANTS everyone to vote, and the other party wants the fewest possible voters. Don't get me wrong, Dems will try to gerrymander the shit out of districts, but they will not suppress voting, basically ever.

This is literally a good guy/bad guy situation and you won't see anyone north of Kosmo defending the republicans on that one. At least I haven't seen it in this thread.

Republicans are objectively in the wrong here. Any disagreement?

[Baraka in the White House]

good job not shitcanning Walker, WI

Eznark kicks feet up, cracks open a beer.

[Ember128]

This is why it always amazes me when Democrats, who are usually the ones whining about people "paying their fair share", oppose a simpler tax system simply to protect the votes they get from people that don't pay any federal income tax. It would be interesting to see what the projections would be on a tax system as simple as this: 10% on everything up to $125K ($250K for a couple) 20% on everything over that up to $1M 30% on everything over $1M Still allow people to write off mortgage interest, but that's it (no write-offs for dinations, etc.) Throw capital gains in there and treat them the same as regular income, which closes the loophole on CEOs taking $1 salaries and getting vast amounts of stock, which is taxed at a lower rate. I'm not saying these are ideal numbers, just an example. Both sides would opposed this, however, both for stupid political reasons (Dems: "You can't tax the poor!"; Repubs: "That's raising the capital gains tax for large investors!").

I think one issue people have with having a 10% flat tax on the poorest Americans is that it's a big hit to either spending or debt for people at/below the poverty line who are living paycheck to paycheck, which they cannot afford.

[Wilsongt]

...wat?

[Aaron Strife]

...wat?

You might be a liberal if instead of blood, your body contains deadly corrosive acid.

[Wilsongt]

You might be a liberal if instead of blood, your body contains deadly corrosive acid.

I'd like to combine that with a little Deadman Wonderland voodoo and use it every once in a while.

[The Technomancer]

...wat?

It starts out with a few reasonable if exaggerated cliches and by the end it has descended into madness. The 9/11 comment is sickening.

[empty vessel]

I am going to get a bumper sticker made that says, "I support killing the unborn."

[Ether_Snake]

Declining moral values!

(Blue = US, red=other countries)

[RustyNails]

But Israel IS a criminal state. It's illegally hoarding land belonging to Palestinians.

[Hobbestetrician]

It starts out with a few reasonable if exaggerated cliches and by the end it has descended into madness. The 9/11 comment is sickening.

This was pretty much my response. Rolled my eyes for the first few but that 9/11 one is horrific.

But I guess conservatives feel they want to bring everyone together (by having everyone rely on themselves) while liberals are dividing us all.

[Oblivion]

It is an accident of history and demographics, but right now we have a two party system where one party WANTS everyone to vote, and the other party wants the fewest possible voters. Don't get me wrong, Dems will try to gerrymander the shit out of districts, but they will not suppress voting, basically ever. This is literally a good guy/bad guy situation and you won't see anyone north of Kosmo defending the republicans on that one. At least I haven't seen it in this thread. Republicans are objectively in the wrong here. Any disagreement?

Yes.

Why? Because both sides do it. That's why.

[Flying_Phoenix]

Right, the private sector would have to hire away from the government with higher wages (or otherwise be more attractive). Ultimately, though, the wage is irrelevant, because it's just a random number. I mean, it should probably be set in relation to current wages to avoid disruption, but, once set, it basically establishes price stability (private wages, goods, services) around that wage, whatever the number is. And to clarify: the purpose is not to compete with the private sector. It's to set a standard--like the gold standard--to stabilize prices. Labor is ideal for this purpose. Currently, the private sector is simply uninterested in hiring all the people who want to work. And since that amounts to social waste (unused labor), the government should hire that labor. As the economy improves, and the private sector wants to hire away people employed by the government, so be it.

This is why I think the future is going to blur what type of economic system we have more and more. Right now we live in a Capitalist economy with some "Socialist" elements. I imagine that after the next leftist pull things will be more and more Frakenstein.

Does the UK have a different culture than us? Norway? Germany? etc. You can say it is too far gone. And you can't change the laws because of all the gun nuts. But to say that it wouldn't work here is silly.

Those nations don't have the same type of criminals as we do. Those nations don't have "gangbanger" culture. The U.S. criminal underground has a lot more in common with South America than Western Europe. Its sort of how the Russian criminal underground (mob state) is different from the U.S. and Western Europe. Different problems require different solutions.

[The Technomancer]

Yes. Why? Because both sides do it. That's why.

[Oblivion]

Heh.

http://www.lawyersgunsmoneyblog.com/...zing-a-tragedy

[cartoon_soldier]

Bachman now accuses Keith Ellison of being a traitor too

http://blog.seattlepi.com/seattlepol...use-colleague/

The Republican congresswoman, who ran for the GOP presidential nomination, charged without producing evidence that Rep. Keith Ellison, D-Minn., “has a long record of being associated with (the Council on American-Islamic Relations) and the Muslim Brotherhood.”

I am sorry, but more Republicans need to speak out against her, more forcefully. She needs to be rebuked.

[PhoenixPause]

Funny how conservatives had no idea who or what the Muslim Brotherhood was before we intervened in Egypt. Now suddenly everyone has ties to them

Bachman's seat is pretty safe right? Such a shame

[empty vessel]

Funny how conservatives had no idea who or what the Muslim Brotherhood was before we intervened in Egypt. Now suddenly everyone has ties to them

It's weird that conservatives consider it problematic to be "associated with" a political party governing an allied country.

What is problematic about being associated with Egyptians? Isn't this just raw, anti-Arab racism being expressed?

[RustyNails]

Bachman now accuses Keith Ellison of being a traitor too http://blog.seattlepi.com/seattlepol...use-colleague/ I am sorry, but more Republicans need to speak out against her, more forcefully. She needs to be rebuked.

Goddamn. Bachmann IS present day McCarthy. I hope Keith Ellison's office takes her to task.

[cartoon_soldier]

Goddamn. Bachmann IS present day McCarthy. I hope Keith Ellison's office takes her to task.

When ONLY a few people in her own party have the courage to condemn her and even that it is because the "evidence sucks", nothing will change.

It is really awful that the country is at a point where Republicans believing and advancing conspiracy theories is now regarded as a normal thing.

[Four_Chamber]

Bachman now accuses Keith Ellison of being a traitor too http://blog.seattlepi.com/seattlepol...use-colleague/ I am sorry, but more Republicans need to speak out against her, more forcefully. She needs to be rebuked.

If the GOP had a semblance of a conscience, she would be censured. A censure vote on her would be a litmus test for sanity in Congress- anybody who defends her idiocy should not hold public office.

Ellison is a boss and I'm sure he'll take care of business. I hope people don't denounce the entire state of Minnesota- there's a lot Minnesota has done right (Amy Klobuchar, Ellison, etc). It's just the 6th district of Minnesota that is chock full of morons.

[Kosmo]

If the GOP had a semblance of a conscience, she would be censured. A censure vote on her would be a litmus test for sanity in Congress- anybody who defends her idiocy should not hold public office. Ellison is a boss and I'm sure he'll take care of business. I hope people don't denounce the entire state of Minnesota- there's a lot Minnesota has done right (Amy Klobuchar, Ellison, etc). It's just the 6th district of Minnesota that is chock full of morons.

Oh no, not CENSURE! What's next, we put her in timeout for 5 minutes? It's a completely useless tool.

[PhoenixPause]

Who cares about censures. The public condemnations are fine with me. It's high time that type of ignorance was called out on a bipartisan level. The only thing to do is vote her out of the house, which won't happen anytime soon.

[Chichikov]

If the GOP had a semblance of a conscience, she would be censured. A censure vote on her would be a litmus test for sanity in Congress- anybody who defends her idiocy should not hold public office. Ellison is a boss and I'm sure he'll take care of business. I hope people don't denounce the entire state of Minnesota- there's a lot Minnesota has done right (Amy Klobuchar, Ellison, etc). It's just the 6th district of Minnesota that is chock full of morons.

She should be tossed out of the House Intelligence Committee.
That should be priority one.
You really can't have that type of people providing oversight to the intelligence community.

[Cyan]

Oh no, not CENSURE! What's next, we put her in timeout for 5 minutes? It's a completely useless tool.

Yeah. Though at least it would serve notice to the general public that she's spewing bullshit.

[cartoon_soldier]

Yeah. Though at least it would serve notice to the general public that she's spewing bullshit.

You realize that a Republican candidate won a seat in 2010 elections on the basis of running ads against the Dem accusing him of supporting the building of that Mosque near 9/11. That because a big part of her campaign against the incumbent towards the final stages.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Renee_Ellmers

That is in fucking NC.

[Cyan]

You realize that a Republican candidate won a seat in 2010 elections on the basis of running ads against the Dem accusing him of supporting the building of that Mosque near 9/11. That because a big part of her campaign against the incumbent towards the final stages. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Renee_Ellmers That is in fucking NC.

Is this in response to something I said?

[Clevinger]

Oh no, not CENSURE! What's next, we put her in timeout for 5 minutes? It's a completely useless tool.

We might as well not even talk about it because Oh no, not WORDS. What's next, we put her in timeout for five minutes?

She should be tossed out of the House Intelligence Committee. That should be priority one. You really can't have that type of people providing oversight to the intelligence community.

She's still in that? Jesus...

[cartoon_soldier]

Is this in response to something I said?

Just that there will be a good segment of Republican voters who would be behind Bachman.

Something more than Censure needs to be done here.

She's still in that? Jesus...

The Chairman of the committee was supporting her work until all the blow back started.

[Jooney]

I thought Bachmann was under pressure from a primary challenger, which is why she is whipping up this anti-Muslim hysteria. If she was genuinely concerned about Muslim Brotherhood infiltration she would report this to the relevant authority in secret and let them do their investigation. But this is nothing more than pure political theatre to rile up her constituents.

[Meadows]

my reaction as I was reading:

1) okay, fair point
2) uh kinda specific, but alright
3) yeah I guess
4) good point, I guess your making good poin..
5) ..ah, ok that's a little weird
6) probably because one is much worse than the other
7) yeah good point, I guess this isn't all ba'
8) ...the fuck?
9) wait what did you say in number 8?
10) I guess abortion is a testy subject, wait what are the "condemne...
11) ...no, let's talk more about 8 and 10 some more
12) ...still waiting on the whole "condemned" thing
13) stop not talking about what you said in 8 & 10
14) still waiting

[PhoenixPause]

Eznark kicks feet up, cracks open a beer.

7% unemployment. Keeping fucking that chicken, libs

[Aaron Strife]

7% unemployment. Keeping fucking that chicken, libs

Trend matters more than a hard number. Or was the economy doing fine at 7% under Bush?

Bachman's seat is pretty safe right? Such a shame

Reddest seat in Minnesota. A while back her challenger (Jim Graves) had a poll showing him trailing by only 5 (48-43), so I'm wondering if this Muslim Brotherhood business is pulling her down any. In 2008 when she accused Obama of being a communist she came very close to losing - she pulled it out by 2 points because it was so near the election date that her opponent, who raised millions off of her comments, couldn't do anything with the money.

I'm not very optimistic but she's never gotten more than 53% of the vote. Her special brand of crazy is the only thing keeping the district competitive.

Personally if I were Graves I'd be running a new hit ad every week. Some highlights:

- calling fellow Congressmen communists or members of the Muslim brotherhood or both

- her "Bachmann's List" bullshit (while in the MN House she harassed teachers who talked about the Iraq war in high schools and sent out some thugs to monitor their classes)

- her applying for dual citizenship in Switzerland only a few months after the presidential primary, which would have made her ineligible

- telling BP not to pay for the oil spill and that they shouldn't be "chumps"

- refusing to debate her opponents

- district having the highest rate of teen suicide in Minnesota and how she's done nothing about it

- how she's done nothing about anything and has bold-face lied to reporters about her tenure in the House (saying in 2010 "I'm a freshman in the House so I don't have much influence")

- collecting stimulus dollars after railing against the stimulus

There's plenty. Unfortunately, Democrats never want to get their hands dirty so they'll never attack her on any of that, but Graves is kind of doing his own thing so here's hoping. Here's him on the Muslim Brotherhood stuff.

[Oblivion]

I thought Bachmann was under pressure from a primary challenger, which is why she is whipping up this anti-Muslim hysteria. If she was genuinely concerned about Muslim Brotherhood infiltration she would report this to the relevant authority in secret and let them do their investigation. But this is nothing more than pure political theatre to rile up her constituents.

Wait, Bachmann, no seriously, Michelle flippin Bachmann under threat of a primary challenger?

That is quite possibly the most frightening thing I've read all month.

[SteveWinwood]

That was created by a gaffer. Why is weknowmemes at the bottom?

[The Technomancer]

That was created by a gaffer. Why is weknowmemes at the bottom?

It appears to be the first GAF meme that has escaped the lab and thrived in the outside environment.

[Shadow Hog]

It appears to be the first GAF meme that has escaped the lab and thrived in the outside environment.

I wouldn't say it's the first...

[Stinkles]

Who cares about censures. The public condemnations are fine with me. It's high time that type of ignorance was called out on a bipartisan level. The only thing to do is vote her out of the house, which won't happen anytime soon.

Thing is, if they did censure her, she'd become a hero for the Tea Party.

[Suikoguy]

Thing is, if they did censure her, she'd become a hero for the Tea Party.

In the long run, it might be for the best.

[Oblivion]

http://www.nationalconfidential.com/...op-convention/

[PhoenixPause]

Thing is, if they did censure her, she'd become a hero for the Tea Party.

Good point. And it would probably make Boehner's job even harder lol