[spwolf]

Look, the 16gb entry model with a very low price (~$150) is aimed at people who will probably never even own enough games to run out of space. These aren't people with 30 games on the shelf. These are people who buy a couple games a year, and maybe rent a couple more. They'll be fine. People who know they need more will understand the value of bumping up to a higher level, or how to upgrade. Unless they include a 3 month membership in PS+ with the 16gb models (which would be a dirty trick!) there is no actual problem here.

it is also made for people who want to upgrade their HDD, because you can get 750 GB drive for $70 right now or 500 GB for $50.

[StuBurns]

Eh, to not have SSF4 on the harddrive, that's not a PS3 world I want to live in.

[coldfoot]

It's ideal for me as well, as the standard 5400rpm hard drives that come with PS3's are garbage. I always upgrade to a 7200rpm and it improves things tremendously, as I rarely experienced rimlag before the update, and my GT5 load times were fast, etc.

Since I have one of the CECH-2000 slims which are loud thanks to the 65nm RSX, I plan on getting one of these and putting my own 7200rpm hdd in it.

[nasos_333]

source? What if you play one game at a time and only a few a year? I own 89 retail disc games, only 17 have required installs over 1GB, most are in the range 1-3GB. So lets not exaggerate what amount of HD is required for casual play. Interesting data; I have 24 game in my "kids" section, only one has a >1GB install. So if you are buying it for casual games, you will need a HD even less.

Well, my experience is that i have a 60GB HDD constatly full and i have to erase stuff all the time to play new games

Imagine what will happen with a 16GB HDD

Personally i think it is a typo or a fake rumor, totally

There is no way this would go out to consumers with all the games that require an install on PS3

[noodalls]

Still thinking it might be a 16gb SSD, with space for another HDD.

[Speedymanic]

Proprietary hard drives. I can feel it in my bones.

[test_account]

Proprietary hard drives. I can feel it in my bones.

I doubt this to be honest. I can see Sony branded HDDs, but not proprietary ones.

[Speedymanic]

I doubt this to be honest. I can see Sony branded HDDs, but not proprietary ones.

Possibly. I just can't see Sony allowing you yo use any hard drives as they did with the old models.

[Brad Grenz]

Possibly. I just can't see Sony allowing you yo use any hard drives as they did with the old models.

Why not? We literally have no reason to believe they would change that policy all of a sudden. There is no need to placate retailers with high margin accessories for a platform that can be download only (as was the case with Vita). There is no security benefit since there are already about 70 million PS3s out there that can take any 2.5 inch SATA drive. All that's left is an unfounded and prejudiced assumption on your part.

[test_account]

Possibly. I just can't see Sony allowing you yo use any hard drives as they did with the old models.

I guess that it is not 100% impossible with a proprietary HDD, but we'll know soon enough :)

[phosphor112]

GT5, Rage, and I'm sure MGS4 will top both of those after the update.

[DoctorWho]

16gb PS3? Is this a joke?

[phosphor112]

16gb PS3? Is this a joke?

Is the 4gb 360 a joke too? Yeah, it is, but it gives people an option. I would have bought the 16g if it existed when I purchased mine, so I can put in the HDD size I wanted.

[Harlock]

Is very different situation in PS3. There are various games with huge obrigatory installs. Couple of gigs each. And the patchs are bigger than in 360 too. And they are pushing the PSN+, more download. Don´t make sense the 16 gb. I believe that was an error and it´s 160gb.

[5amshift]

If not a typo thats absolutely retarded. What point is 16GB on a system where one install will destroy all of your space?

Also for a company that wanted the PS3 to be an entertainment fun house, they absolutely defeated that purpose. Sony keeps fucking up.

[Arc]

How is there so many people completley missing the point of having a low end, cheap sku?

This is a great move by Sony and will force Microsoft to make a move too.

[coldfoot]

Possibly. I just can't see Sony allowing you yo use any hard drives as they did with the old models.

They also allow online play for free! How dare they not rip you off like Microsoft!!!

[CorrisD]

Still thinking it might be a 16gb SSD, with space for another HDD.

I wouldn't be surprised if it is just a basic flash stuck on a sata connection.

Possibly. I just can't see Sony allowing you yo use any hard drives as they did with the old models.

There's no reason to think they won't, they released a 20GB and let us change those.

[Epcott]

A 16GB console huh? Forget about playing DC Universe Online, that thing is a monster on the HDD.

[boutdown]

The PS3 will take up a portion of those 16GB, so you'll be getting less of that actually.

Are the HDDs user replaceable?

EDIT: Nvm

[SkylineRKR]

16gb is good entry level. It will play the big hitters from EA, Activision and Sony itself. Even GT5 is fully optional.

I do expect Sony branded HDD's now though. A lot of consumers are sensitive to that and only trust it if there is a Ps3 logo on that blister. There are still many who think upgrading is impossible, or that its something dangerous. Its because Sony doesn't really pushes the feature up front, and there is no big fat sign on the console itself too. Its a bit hidden, takes a screwdriver to pull off.. its not all that practical.

If Sony comes through with a plan like this, then I also expect the new Ps3 to be more user friendly with upgrades.

[OldJadedGamer]

it is also made for people who want to upgrade their HDD, because you can get 750 GB drive for $70 right now or 500 GB for $50.

Are these same casuals going to be smart enough to upgrade the PS3 HDD?

How is there so many people completley missing the point of having a low end, cheap sku?

It makes great sense just like it did for the 360 years ago. But Many here have never really accepted or understood the low end sku and it has been mocked for years. It is a good idea for Sony to follow as the original Xbox showed, it is really hard to get the price of the unit down when it has an HDD anchored to it.

Is the 4gb 360 a joke too? Yeah, it is, but it gives people an option. I would have bought the 16g if it existed when I purchased mine, so I can put in the HDD size I wanted.

Again, this comparision ignores that many games for the system have required installs of up to 8 gigs. Also people rag on the Arcade unit all the time calling it the "tard pack".

There's no reason to think they won't, they released a 20GB and let us change those.

That was pre-Vita. We also thought the Vita would have open memory. It really is up up in the air.

[AgentP]

Well, my experience is that i have a 60GB HDD constatly full and i have to erase stuff all the time to play new games Imagine what will happen with a 16GB HDD Personally i think it is a typo or a fake rumor, totally There is no way this would go out to consumers with all the games that require an install on PS3

Again, not that many games require large installs, my personal collection was 19% use >1GB. You and I are not the target buyer for a 16GB, it would be some family where the kids are playing Lego games (no installs), Singstar games (no install) or Just Dance games(no install). So having ~13GB usable space for small PSN games or patches is plenty. They can always just buy a HD if they need to. Does this sound like a familiar strategy? Yes the 4GB 360 is doing the same.

[Speedymanic]

Why not? We literally have no reason to believe they would change that policy all of a sudden. There is no need to placate retailers with high margin accessories for a platform that can be download only (as was the case with Vita). There is no security benefit since there are already about 70 million PS3s out there that can take any 2.5 inch SATA drive. All that's left is an unfounded and prejudiced assumption on your part.

Think about it.

This console is basically for very late adopters, people who will be attracted by the low price more than anything.

These people don't game as much as you or I but they may start to or become interested in plus, so they'll need a bigger hard drive.

Those same late adopters won't be as adept as you or I installing a new hard drive.

Sony sells proprietary hard drives that simply go into a slot for a higher price than your standard 2.5 hard drive.

Sony make bank, Sony sell a PS3 for a lower price and the only people who get 'screwed' over are the late adopters, the loyal fans still have their older models which they can upgrade with 1tb hard drives straight from the shelf.

Also, Sony won't want to cannibalize the sales of their other models, so it makes sense from that standpoint to go with proprietary hard drives.

I guess that it is not 100% impossible with a proprietary HDD, but we'll know soon enough :)

Makes too much sense not to do it.

They also allow online play for free! How dare they not rip you off like Microsoft!!!

What does this have to do with anything?

[test_account]

Makes too much sense not to do it.

There might be some money to be made indeed. I'm not sure if they need to go with a proprietary solution or if just doing a Sony branded HDD is enough. But as long as they have the other option with the other PS3 models, i dont mind it.

[CorrisD]

That was pre-Vita. We also thought the Vita would have open memory. It really is up up in the air.

And the PSP was pre-PS3, the Vita continued the trend from the PSP, while Sony haven't shown that they will be doing the same for the PS3.

[see5harp]

Again, not that many games require large installs, my personal collection was 19% use >1GB. You and I are not the target buyer for a 16GB, it would be some family where the kids are playing Lego games (no installs), Singstar games (no install) or Just Dance games(no install). So having ~13GB usable space for small PSN games or patches is plenty. They can always just buy a HD if they need to. Does this sound like a familiar strategy? Yes the 4GB 360 is doing the same.

The 360 requires installs or a hard drive for a handful of games. Games like Sorcery or Resistance 3 require gigabytes of hard drive space before you've even started played. It's not the same thing at all.

[Speedymanic]

There might be some money to be made indeed. I'm not sure if they need to go with a proprietary solution or if just doing a Sony branded HDD is enough. But as long as they have the other option with the other PS3 models, i dont mind it.

Sony branded is possible but the potential problem there would the cannibalizing of their other models.

Why would anyone want to buy the 320gb when they could buy the 16gb and use an off the shelf hard drive? It makes their other models irrelevant and I'm pretty sure that's not the point of this model.

Still, as you said, we'll know for sure soon enough.

[Speedymanic]

The 360 requires installs or a hard drive for a handful of games. Games like Sorcery or Resistance 3 require gigabytes of hard drive space before you've even started played. It's not the same thing at all.

Which 360 games? I've yet to come across one that required an install before I could play.

[SkylineRKR]

Sony branded is possible but the potential problem there would the cannibalizing of their other models. Why would anyone want to buy the 320gb when they could buy the 16gb and use an off the shelf hard drive? It makes their other models irrelevant and I'm pretty sure that's not the point of this model. Still, as you said, we'll know for sure soon enough.

By making the Sony branded HDDs a tad more expensive, much like the Sony HDMI cable which retailed for 25 euros while you could also grab a blank one for 10.

But I think that the price difference between the 16gb and 320gb (or was it 500?) SKU won't be more than about 75 bucks. Which means that buying a 16gb SKU along with a regular HDD will still end up being the same deal.

Or they disable off the shelve drives...

[SMT]

Metal Gear Solid IV! Get ready to fill up your HDD with gaming goodness.

[see5harp]

Which 360 games? I've yet to come across one that required an install before I could play.

I think Halo 3 required a hard drive. I think Halo 4 will require an install to play MP. Obviously FFXI required one. But yea, it's pretty rare.

[Dead Man Typing]

Which 360 games? I've yet to come across one that required an install before I could play.

Burnout Paradise required a hard drive for online due to the mandatory patching system.

Halo Reach required a HDD for co-op/firefight, but not for general multiplayer or single player (or spitscreen co-op)

[Speedymanic]

By making the Sony branded HDDs a tad more expensive, much like the Sony HDMI cable which retailed for 25 euros while you could also grab a blank one for 10. But I think that the price difference between the 16gb and 320gb (or was it 500?) SKU won't be more than about 75 bucks. Which means that buying a 16gb SKU along with a regular HDD will still end up being the same deal. Or they disable off the shelve drives...

We'll see, but something tells me that they will go with a method that doesn't allow people to install off the shelf hard drives.

I think Halo 3 required a hard drive. I think Halo 4 will require an install to play MP. Obviously FFXI required one. But yea, it's pretty rare.

Burnout Paradise required a hard drive for online due to the mandatory patching system. Halo Reach required a HDD for co-op/firefight, but not for general multiplayer or single player (or spitscreen co-op)

Ah, I thought he meant actual game installs, not inline play.

Still, as see said, it is pretty rare and unless I'm mistaken, didn't they patch Reach so it would work without a hard drive or am I thinking of something else?

[test_account]

Sony branded is possible but the potential problem there would the cannibalizing of their other models. Why would anyone want to buy the 320gb when they could buy the 16gb and use an off the shelf hard drive? It makes their other models irrelevant and I'm pretty sure that's not the point of this model. Still, as you said, we'll know for sure soon enough.

The reasons why i dont think they will choose a proprietary solution is because i think the 16GB model will have the exact same design as the other models. This would mean that the 16GB model will have a 2.5" HDD slot in it. I'm not sure that they will go the route with designing two different cases. Microsoft have the same case for both their Xbox 360 models if i'm not mistaken.

The other reason is that i think the 16GB model (if it excist) will mainly be marketed towards the more casual crowd, which might be unlikely to upgrade their PS3 anyway.

I will not be surprised if there is a proprietary HDD solution though. I think we will know for sure at this year's Gamescom.

[Glorified G]

I think Halo 3 required a hard drive. I think Halo 4 will require an install to play MP. Obviously FFXI required one. But yea, it's pretty rare.

Which makes the whole "Hey, there is a 4gb 360, what's the big deal?" argument asinine.

[Teletraan1]

The PS3 OS reserves a set percentage of the space, I think it is 10%. So there will probably be 14GB+ left. Because we aren't the consumers this is aimed at, everyone on here no doubt understands how to use the console perfectly fine from the get go and understands what might need to be deleted to make room. The difference between the 4GB 360 and a 16GB PS3 is that it is nearly 6 years down the road, there are a lot of games with a lot of mandatory installs, the 360 from memory to play any SP game doesn't have any mandatory installs and as such wont have the problem creep up in the future. The 360 is also easier from the perspective of someone who isn't more technologically minded with expanding siad storage, while the PS3 currently requires unscrewing the console and such. No one is being as dramatic as you have pointed out, we are simply considering those who this is aimed at. $179 is the apparent price from someone on here who a mod referred to as reliable.

What a world we live in where unscrewing 1 screw is technological. Putting batteries in a baby toy are as hard to install as a ps3 hard drive.

This just offers a low entry price. Most games don't really take much space or have large installs. If people run out of space they will delete stuff or look for upgrade options. The same way they do with the 20Gb models of these systems or the 4Gb model of the 360.

I would have liked to see 32Gb personally because it is probably a lot more manageable than 16. Not to mention that with 32 you might actually get people to buy software off PSN. A few purchases off PSN or someone signing up for PSN+ would pay for the extra 16Gb.

[Raoh]

Which 360 games? I've yet to come across one that required an install before I could play.

But isn't that what devs were complaining about? They wanted to do installs on the 360 but couldn't because they had to consider the arcade model owners. It was considered a hindrance.

Sony might as well follow suit. HD's was one of the things that kept the price of ps3's high, hell it was one of the reasons the original xbox bled money.

If devs are making the games without installs for ms, might as well do it for sony as well. Sony took too long to do this if you ask me.

[Speedymanic]

But isn't that what devs were complaining about? They wanted to do installs on the 360 but couldn't because they had to consider the arcade model owners. It was considered a hindrance. Sony might as well follow suit. HD's was one of the things that kept the price of ps3's high, hell it was one of the reasons the original xbox bled money. If devs are making the games without installs for ms, might as well do it for sony as well. Sony took too long to do this if you ask me.

I think I do remember some devs complaining about it, but MS not allowing mandatory installs was great decision in the long run. Lower entry price and it allowed them to make crazy bank on their memory cards and hard drives.

I do agree that Sony should follow suit, I haven't come across a game that had a mandatory install on PS3 for some time, but then I haven't been disc gaming as much as I used to on PS3 so maybe I've just missed them.

[OldJadedGamer]

And the PSP was pre-PS3, the Vita continued the trend from the PSP, while Sony haven't shown that they will be doing the same for the PS3.

The PSP did not use memory unique to that system like the Vita does.

[CorrisD]

The PSP did not use memory unique to that system like the Vita does.

The Memory Stick Pro Due is still a proprietary storage medium though, even if it isn't unique to the PSP.

I'm not saying it definitely 100% isn't going to happen, but Sony haven't given any indication that they have changed where they stand on the subject of the HDD in the PS3, they had ample opportunity to do it with the introduction of the slim model if they wanted to do what MS was originally doing with the 360.

[Fancy Corndog]

I guess proprietary would work, but I'd rather them just release a "PS3 HDD" to take care of the confused casual crowd and leave it open and easy for everyone else.

[coldfoot]

The PSP did not use memory unique to that system like the Vita does.

The PS3 does not use storage unique to that system either. There are no proprietary 2.5 HDD's. All MS does is limit their system for 2.5" hard drives of a certain capacity that are formatted a certain way. They also used to limit it to a certain model from a certain brand in the past, but then realized eventually that it's just cheaper to source whichever HDD they can get the cheapest at the time of production, so they started multi-sourcing their hard drives and lifted that restriction.

Sony will not use proprietary HDD's in the PS3, I'm willing to bet on it. They might bring out their own branded HDD's for people who are too ignorant to realize any hdd will work, but they won't lock out upgrading your own HDD.

[Raoh]

The PS3 does not use storage unique to that system either. There are no proprietary 2.5 HDD's. All MS does is limit their system for 2.5" hard drives of a certain capacity that are formatted a certain way. They also used to limit it to a certain model from a certain brand in the past, but then realized eventually that it's just cheaper to source whichever HDD they can get the cheapest at the time of production, so they started multi-sourcing their hard drives and lifted that restriction. Sony will not use proprietary HDD's in the PS3, I'm willing to bet on it. They might bring out their own branded HDD's for people who are too ignorant to realize any hdd will work, but they won't lock out upgrading your own HDD.

Could be a golden opportunity for Gamestop/BestBuy to sell and install Hard Drives for PS3's as well.

Gamestop could probably do a hard drive trade in deal and sell refurbished hard drives.

[BKK]

Fixed for maximum accuracy. 4K sectors are a non-issue for the PS3.

That's not really fixing my post at all as it's still possible to connect larger HDDs than 9.5mm (3.5" for example) via the internal sata, yet HDDs over 1TB aren't supported.

[OldJadedGamer]

Sony will not use proprietary HDD's in the PS3, I'm willing to bet on it. They might bring out their own branded HDD's for people who are too ignorant to realize any hdd will work, but they won't lock out upgrading your own HDD.

They may not use them on the bigger HDD models but I can see them using one on the 16gig flash memory one. The open memory of the HDD may be used as a selling point to upgrade the user to the other more expensive models.

[Mojo]

I think we'll still get user-replaceable HDDs with this, PS4 might turn out different though. Wonder if we'll get a cheaper PS4 at launch that uses 64GB of flash, would be a decent amount

[coldfoot]

They may not use them on the bigger HDD models but I can see them using one on the 16gig flash memory one. The open memory of the HDD may be used as a selling point to upgrade the user to the other more expensive models.

Impractical to implement now. As I said, unlike flash memory, there are no proprietary 2.5" HDD's. All they could do is limit the brand and capacity of it like MS did, but it would be too much trouble to implement in the first place.

[Bomber Bob]

Look, the 16gb entry model with a very low price (~$150)

Should be 99$

[Mojo]

Should be 49$