[legacyzero]

Downpour wasn't bad, but with the budget Konami seems to allocate for SH games these days (shoestring and bubblegum wrappers) combined with Konami not giving a shit about the franchise, Konami sending Downpour to die, and the HD Collection fiasco, it's not really surprising Vatra took the hit for Konami being incompetent :/ You can't have played Homecoming or Shitty Memories then.

I did. And hated both. That's another issue he're is making Tomm Hulett the series savior. Hate that guy.

[Combichristoffersen]

I did. And hated both. That's another issue he're is making Tomm Hulett the series savior. Hate that guy.

Tomm gets far too much shit from GAF IMO. He's not the one allocating budgets for the SH franchise, his superiors at Konami are the ones responsible for the pitiful budgets, nonexistant marketing and general ignorance of the SH franchise. Blame them, not Tomm.

[legacyzero]

Tomm gets far too much shit from GAF IMO. He's not the one allocating budgets for the SH franchise, his superiors at Konami are the ones responsible for the pitiful budgets, nonexistant marketing and general ignorance of the SH franchise. Blame them, not Tomm.

Oh I know that Konami it seems has run the franchise into the ground.

My dislike for Tomm is majorly how smug he is about his idea about the direction the franchise should go, IE the recasting of new VO for the HD collection, even if Cihi and crew were being ridiculous.

Shattered memories. The HD collection debacle. I know it's majorly konami, but I don't feel Hulett making things better.

[Mpl90]

Don't say that. I worked on Book of Memories. It's a fun game, darn it.

...Worked? Why the past tense?

[Takao]

...Worked? Why the past tense?

I've been told that game's been done for quite some time.

[Ridley327]

Blaming Hulett for what's happened to Silent Hill is a lot like people blaming IGA for whatever happened to Castlevania; it's just an easy-to-remember name for a scapegoat that ultimately had very little to do with the real issues behind the perceived nosedives in quality. At the end of the day, Konami operates the purse strings and they have final say on everything.

That's why talk of Hulett or IGA being some kind of evil masterminds who exist only to make the things you love hurt you (or the equivalent) have always amused the hell out of me.

[DrM]

How ironic that studio name in English means 'Fire' or'Flame'

[kunonabi]

Blaming Hulett for what's happened to Silent Hill is a lot like people blaming IGA for whatever happened to Castlevania; it's just an easy-to-remember name for a scapegoat that ultimately had very little to do with the real issues behind the perceived nosedives in quality. At the end of the day, Konami operates the purse strings and they have final say on everything.

Hulett isn't responsible for the series downful but he has pulled quite a bit of stupid shit. The games he has worked on have all had severe issues.

Downpout had so much potential. The beginning showed so much promise and it really looked like they were going to shake things up. By the end it just turned into the same old shit though. I would have liked to see them get a second shot which is more than I can say for anyone else who worked on the series since 4.

Personally I just want the series to be over.

[IdreamofHIME]

Seems every team who works on a Silent Hill game gets dissolved. :(

Let's pray Wayforward will be ok

[Ridley327]

Hulett isn't responsible for the series downful but he has pulled quite a bit of stupid shit. The games he has worked on have all had severe issues. Downpout had so much potential. The beginning showed so much promise and it really looked like they were going to shake things up. By the end it just turned into the same old shit though. I would have liked to see them get a second shot which is more than I can say for anyone else who worked on the series since 4. Personally I just want the series to be over.

If Konami was being a good publisher, they would have recognized issues with the games they have been putting out, they would have dealt with them accordingly; putting the right people here, spending money there, and so forth. Konami is not a good publisher.

[legacyzero]

Hulett isn't responsible for the series downful but he has pulled quite a bit of stupid shit. The games he has worked on have all had severe issues. Downpout had so much potential. The beginning showed so much promise and it really looked like they were going to shake things up. By the end it just turned into the same old shit though. I would have liked to see them get a second shot which is more than I can say for anyone else who worked on the series since 4. Personally I just want the series to be over.

This is what I was trying to say, basically. Its Huletts design choices for the series overall that bother me. Like, who actually LIKED the repeated chase sequences in Downpour??

It like he either doesn't understand the series basics, or he is ignoring them. Thats just how I see it though.

[_Keiichi_]

At this point i'm not sure i even care about the series anymore. With the new movie coming, things will get even worse. The movies design will probably replace Silent Hill completely at this point.

Well, at least we got Shattered Memories and the old episodes still there. Though my dream would be a Silent Hill with Toyama cooperation, but at this point it's practically impossible.

[TheJollyCorner]

If that would be the case, the series wouldn't even go out with a whimper, it would go out with the sounds associated with having liquid diarrhea.

this is my favorite post ever (today).

[Paracelsus]

Sorry Vatra, game is too scary. Tell them you're going to put Co-op in your next homeconsole Silent Hill and save yourselves.

[Grisby]

Downpour was the worst game in the series. Still, it stinks for the dev as maybe they would have done a better job at a second shot.

[TheJollyCorner]

considering guys like Imamura, Tsuboyama, Ito, Sato, & Owaka don't seem to be doing shit these days, Konami should just take a 4-5 year break, get these guys back in the game, and take another crack at it next gen all the while billing it as "THE RETURN OF TEAM SILENT FOR ANTICIPATED HORROR ADVENTURE".


Oh... and send Yamaoka a check to get him back on board, too.
Downpour had some ok music (some of the licensed songs were fantastic), but Yamaoka was missed.

:}

[AkuMifune]

I liked Downpour. Wasn't great, but got a few things right and the atmosphere and sidequests were really well done.

Shame.

[atre324]

Kinda sad news, although I have yet to play Downpour. Does anyone know if there's anywhere it's available for cheap?

I think part of the reason why I haven't bought SH: Downpour (or the SH HD Collection) is that I've seen so many conflicting statements as to which console to get them on. Anyone care to fill me in on which version to pick up of either game?

[legacyzero]

considering guys like Imamura, Tsuboyama, Ito, Sato, & Owaka don't seem to be doing shit these days, Konami should just take a 4-5 year break, get these guys back in the game, and take another crack at it next gen all the while billing it as "THE RETURN OF TEAM SILENT FOR ANTICIPATED HORROR ADVENTURE". Oh... and send Yamaoka a check to get him back on board, too. Downpour had some ok music (some of the licensed songs were fantastic), but Yamaoka was missed. :}

I don't understand why this hasn't been done. It would save the franchise imo.

[Solid warrior]

Kinda sad news, although I have yet to play Downpour. Does anyone know if there's anywhere it's available for cheap? I think part of the reason why I haven't bought SH: Downpour (or the SH HD Collection) is that I've seen so many conflicting statements as to which console to get them on. Anyone care to fill me in on which version to pick up of either game?

It doesn't matter which version you get for Downpour both of them performs the same way.

SH HD on the other hand is a different story, the PS3 version received a patch recently to fix some issues. It seems like a better game now.

[Shiggy]

Only two Kuju studios left then with Headstrong and Zoe Mode. Catalis SE already shattered most of the group. However, Catalis just formed Kuju Partners, a division which is said to work with external developers. Sounds like a cheaper alternative than an entire studio.

[UrbanRats]

Someone make an actual case for why more Silent Hill games should be made. Konami clearly hasn't been happy with any since #3 (as evidenced by developer hopping to the extreme and clearly listless development processes or priorities with multiple reboots). They clearly don't make money. I don't really feel like the brand name is adding anything--there's no evidence a new horror IP being launched with many similarities to SH would actually be at a disadvantage versus having the established IP behind it.

From a business perspective i don't know.
From an "artistic" perspective, if they keep blind shooting, they'll eventually hit the target.. possibly.

[Dascu]

Sad to hear. Hope the developers and folks that worked there land on their feet.

[Speedymanic]

Shame, Downpour was great aside from the comically bad combat. Atmosphere and set pieces were amazing. The theater and the play were stand out moments of the entire generation for me.

I'd agree with this. The combat hasn't really been up to task in any of the SH games, but it was another level of bad in both Downpour and especially Homecoming.

Atmosphere was pretty great though and I loved the rain mechanic. Might have to pick it up again on the cheap.

[plagiarize]

From a business perspective i don't know. From an "artistic" perspective, if they keep blind shooting, they'll eventually hit the target.. possibly.

Climax made two good games in the series. if Konami had stood behind either of those we would have probably seen them sell well, and Climax would probably have given us one or two more good games in the franchise already.

Vatra did an admirable job even if Downpour wasn't technically sound.

the problem clearly lies with Konami. if they cared they wouldn't be farming the series out to small developers and barely advertising the games when they were done.

[kunonabi]

Climax made two good games in the series. if Konami had stood behind either of those we would have probably seen them sell well, and Climax would probably have given us one or two more good games in the franchise already. Vatra did an admirable job even if Downpour wasn't technically sound. the problem clearly lies with Konami. if they cared they wouldn't be farming the series out to small developers and barely advertising the games when they were done.

Both of Climax games were awful. Not being quite as shitty as SH4 doesn't make a game good.

[subversus]

I mean Amnesia sold like 100k (or something like that, I think)

Amnesia sold 400 000k (2011 info). There are more survival horror titles than you've mentioned. I was going to make the thread about it.

[TheJollyCorner]

I don't understand why this hasn't been done. It would save the franchise imo.

Unfortunately I think the major problem is in the development culture over at Konami as opposed to these unfortunate outsourced teams that have to attempt make gold out of poop.

Konami (possibly KCET in particular), as a company, wants you to think they give a shit about this franchise since they are still making games, but they want to spend as little money as possible to keep it treading water. Shoe-string budgets, basically zero marketing, and small, inexperienced teams carrying all the weight- this has been the M.O. within KCE since SH4 came in underdeveloped and met with critical bitch-slapping.


I actually sympathize with Vatra and Double Helix. They had to make products with seemingly so many handicaps against them. I mean, Vatra had some really wonderful, creative ideas. Double Helix... well... I think they were just a poor choice, overall. CLIMAX did a commendable job with their two games, IMO, but I still question how much support they actually received from Konami.

The last time he was on GAF Hulett tried to shift blame away from the company (understandable, I guess, since he's a current employee) and toss it onto these outsourced developers- both with Downpour and the shameful HD Collection. Although there is a certain amount of blame to go around, it's hard to argue against KCET/KCEA, as the parent company, having a responsibility to put out the best product possible. They didn't... in both situations. With the HD Collection it was absolutely embarrassing and inexcusable. This was mostly in reference to the shitty performance issues with both releases.
Hulett never responded back. Hopefully it was because he agreed but obviously couldn't speak out publicly.


Even though my little dream scenario would be ideal (and emotionally awesome for all of us SH fans :p), it simply could never happen with the way KCET is now... and that's a damn shame.
I think there will be a 'reboot' of some kind in a few years, but unless that development culture changes it will just be history repeating.

[D-Stubbs]

So if Vatra closes then who will create Silent Hill games? Downpour showed enough potential that warrents another shot from Vatra. It was a decent game. I know if Konami closes them down they'll just bring in some other no name dev. Just stick with Vatra, give them the chance to improve.

[TGO]

Why don't they get Mercury Stream to do a Silent Hill, or send it to Platinum?

[Dog Problems]

Konami sucks

Other than a few exceptions, I agree. Never thought I'd actually think that about them.

[plagiarize]

Both of Climax games were awful. Not being quite as shitty as SH4 doesn't make a game good.

0rigins is 'silent hill by numbers', but far from awful, and damn impressive for the PSP hardware. Shattered Memories is highly praised by a lot of people no matter how much others seem to really hate it. neither reviewed particularly worse than any other games in the series.

you're probably just being hyperbolic, but 'awful' isn't a term i'd apply to any silent hill game.

[UrbanRats]

Climax made two good games in the series. if Konami had stood behind either of those we would have probably seen them sell well, and Climax would probably have given us one or two more good games in the franchise already. Vatra did an admirable job even if Downpour wasn't technically sound. the problem clearly lies with Konami. if they cared they wouldn't be farming the series out to small developers and barely advertising the games when they were done.

I personally don't like the direction Climax was going too much.
I mean the concept itself in Shattered Memories i think could've worked, but it stilll lack what basically any non japanese SH lacked, in terms of atmosphere, visual design etc, that extra edge those games had.
And i'm not sure that's something you can achieve with practice, you can refine game mechanics and such, but the core artistic direction? I'm not sure.

Still, Konami's schizophrenic approach isn't sound either.

Both of Climax games were awful. Not being quite as shitty as SH4 doesn't make a game good.

SH4 was good enough.

[TheJollyCorner]

Other than a few exceptions, I agree. Never thought I'd actually think that about them.

-Ring of Red
-Shadows of Destiny/Memories
-Silent Hill 2
-Zone of Enders
-Metal Gear Solid 2: Sons of Liberty
-Suikoden III
-Rumble Roses
-Silent Hill 3
-Metal Gear Solid 3: Snake Eater
-Zone of Enders: 2nd Runner
-Castlevania: Lament of Innocence
-Gradius V
-Silent Hill 4: The Room
-Suikoden IV
-Castlevania: Curse of Darkness
-Suikoden V

This is just a list off the top of my head of Konami (mostly KCET) games from the Playstation 2 generation that I enjoyed.
To me, they were absolutely killing it last gen. Sure, a lot of sequels, but they were consistent.

This generation? It's been pitiful. I can list 4 Konami games this generation I've liked: MGS4, Castlevania: Lords of Shadow, Silent Hill: Shattered Memories, and Silent Hill: Downpour. :/

[BassForever]

I really wish Konami would sell off some of their franchises to other companies. Outside of MGS and PES they don't seem to really care anymore.

[Dog Problems]

-Ring of Red -Shadows of Destiny/Memories -Silent Hill 2 -Zone of Enders -Metal Gear Solid 2: Sons of Liberty -Suikoden III -Rumble Roses -Silent Hill 3 -Metal Gear Solid 3: Snake Eater -Zone of Enders: 2nd Runner -Castlevania: Lament of Innocence -Gradius V -Silent Hill 4: The Room -Suikoden IV -Castlevania: Curse of Darkness -Suikoden V This is just a list off the top of my head of Konami (mostly KCET) games from the Playstation 2 generation that I enjoyed. To me, they were absolutely killing it last gen. Sure, a lot of sequels, but they were consistent. This generation? It's been pitiful. I can list 4 Konami games this generation I've liked: MGS4, Castlevania: Lords of Shadow, Silent Hill: Shattered Memories, and Silent Hill: Downpour. :/

Yeah, this generation is what I meant. Off the top of my head the games I've enjoyed by them have been Contra 4, Contra Rebirth, Hard Corps: Uprising, the DS Castlevania's, that WiiWare Castlevania, and Shattered Memories. I may be missing some but that's such a low list compared to previous generations.

[sublimit]

I wish some other Japanese publisher/developer would buy this series away from Konami.
From Software?

[TheJollyCorner]

I wish some other Japanese publisher/developer would buy this series away from Konami. From Software?

Sony could... and just force Toyama back on it. :D

[MarkusRJR]

Depressing. The only Silent Hill game I enjoyed this generation was Shattered Memories. I've lost all interest in the series now. I'm going to pick up Book of Memories (only because I'm a huge WayForward fanboy) and probably stop buying the Silent Hill games unless something truly good comes out.

[Dog Problems]

Depressing. The only Silent Hill game I enjoyed this generation was Shattered Memories. I've lost all interest in the series now. I'm going to pick up Book of Memories (only because I'm a huge WayForward fanboy) and probably stop buying the Silent Hill games unless something truly good comes out.

I'm doing the same thing.

[sublimit]

Sony could... and just force Toyama back on it. :D

That would have been awesome but unfortunately i don't think Konami would be willing to sell it...:/ I think they can make at least 3 more shitty SH games before they start considering selling the franchise.

[Boerseun]

Downpour is a decent game but not a patch on the best (Shattered Memories).

[RSLAEV]

I'm just glad we were able to get a complete story arc out of SH1 2 and 3. Even if they do keep making Silent Hill games Konami will never give the reigns over to a director that has *real* storytelling chops-someone who actually knew how to use the gaming medium to make the player feel things.

They don't want art, they want that mass market horror dollar-something that can be expanded upon into movies, ios games, ringtones, books, etc. so that means more nurses, more pyramid head, more nu metal.

[SolidSnakex]

Sony could... and just force Toyama back on it. :D

They'd definitely have to force him since he wants to make more Gravity Daze games. He's probably already working on GD2.

[WoodenLung]

So much for a possible pc version that would be able to run it decently... or just a fucking patch. :(

[Riposte]

When it rains, it pours.

The saying actually goes: "Let's get wet"

[Imbarkus]

Someone make an actual case for why more Silent Hill games should be made. Konami clearly hasn't been happy with any since #3 (as evidenced by developer hopping to the extreme and clearly listless development processes or priorities with multiple reboots). They clearly don't make money. I don't really feel like the brand name is adding anything--there's no evidence a new horror IP being launched with many similarities to SH would actually be at a disadvantage versus having the established IP behind it.

Literally all I got is that the name still has value. I don't actually think it means anything without Team Silent behind it, but the UP itself is viable. The next installment in the movie franchise may extend that value further.

Maybe the movies should just run with it for a while, I'm seriously you guys.

EDIT: I say assemble a new Team Silent and give Akira Yamaoka whatever creative control he likes.

[DaBCGang]

Damn, that is a shame considering I loved Downpour. I won't excuse the combat but once you learn to never aim a firearm it actually became tolerable. One of the best stories behind Silent Hill 2 I have seen and actually fleshed out some of the mythos behind Silent Hill fairly well without completely ruining everything.

I wish they could have gotten a chance at a sequel if they could have built on what they already had but alas I fear that shall not be.

[omonimo]

I don't said was terrible, but from I have seen & read here & there, technically, downpour was an incredible disaster so why this company was so surprise? At least release a game polished not a beta....I means UE3 it's the most frinedly engine in the market.....

[sublimit]

They'd definitely have to force him since he wants to make more Gravity Daze games. He's probably already working on GD2.

I don't think he would need much convincing.He said that for his next project he would like to focus on the concept of fear:

"In my next game, I also want to carry that on and create a game that players can react to on an emotionally and instinctually," Toyama added. I followed up and asked, "What emotion are you most interested in?" "Fear," Toyama replied.

http://www.siliconera.com/2011/12/12...man-instincts/