[jayb]

Do we know for sure that Ramsey actually sent the letter? What if someone at the wall made that letter in a ploy to get Jon to break his vows? Then again, I don't recall anyone at the wall knowing theon was alive.

[Count of Monte Sawed-Off]

Ramsay was totally bluffing. The whole letter read like he was in a complete panic and enraged out of his mind and making a desperate grasp at straws. He specifically demands that Jon hand over Theon, but if he had actually routed Stannis he would know that Stannis had Theon, and he would already have him back. The only thing we can take for fact from that letter, I think, is that Mance is captured and most likely going through a pretty awful ordeal.

Not necessarily on Mance. Ramsay could have just gotten the info from one of the captured ladies. Mance could easily be hanging out in the crypts like a certain bard.

[PhoenixPause]

Long, detailed interview with Martin.
http://www.westeros.org/Citadel/SSM/..._in_Barcelona/

Finally a full description of the Knot issues

Q: Now that we know how the "Meereenese knot" played out, what was the problem with this? For example, was it the order in which Dany met various characters, or who, when, and how someone would try to take the dragons? A: Now I can explain things. It was a confluence of many, many factors: lets start with the offer from Xaro to give Dany ships, the refusal of which then leads to Qarth's declaration of war. Then there's the marriage of Daenerys to pacify the city. Then there's the arrival of the Yunkish army at the gates of Meereen, there's the order of arrival of various people going her way (Tyrion, Quentyn, Victarion, Aegon, Marwyn, etc.), and then there's Daario, this dangerous sellsword and the question of whether Dany really wants him or not, there's hte plague, there's Drogon's return to Meereen... All of these things were balls I had thrown up into the air, and they're all linked and chronologically entwined. The return of Drogon to the city was something I explored as happening at different times. For example, I wrote three different versions of Quentyn's arrival at Meereen: one where he arrived long before Dany's marriage, one where he arrived much later, and one where he arrived just the day before the marriage (which is how it ended up being in the novel). And I had to write all three versions to be able to compare and see how these different arrival points affected the stories of the other characters. Including the story of a character who actually hasn't arrived yet.

[jayb]

Including the story of a character who actually hasn't arrived yet.

wait, I thought he previously said that there weren't going to be any new characters in the last two books?

[PhoenixPause]

wait, I thought he previously said that there weren't going to be any new characters in the last two books?

He's likely referring to Marwyn, the Citadel maester who headed for Dany at the end of AFFC

[Violater]

Well I got a spoiler and found out about the red wedding a couple days ago, and honestly my usual interest to read the book at every little chance has faded. In all honesty its just a book but its got me pretty damn depressed, the same thing happened when Eddard died but I think this is even worst. I haven't read through it yet, but anyway....... Is there any redeeming reason for that to happen to Rob and Cat?
Is there anything that's going to cheer me up further on?
fuck

[Iksenpets]

wait, I thought he previously said that there weren't going to be any new characters in the last two books?

He said no new POVs, not no new characters. That would be impossible.

Well I got a spoiler and found out about the red wedding a couple days ago, and honestly my usual interest to read the book at every little chance has faded. In all honesty its just a book but its got me pretty damn depressed, the same thing happened when Eddard died but I think this is even worst. I haven't read through it yet, but anyway....... Is there any redeeming reason for that to happen to Rob and Cat? Is there anything that's going to cheer me up further on? fuck

Keep going. There are plenty of things that make up for it by the end of book 3, and the North always remembers.

[jayb]

I haven't read through it yet, but anyway....... Is there any redeeming reason for that to happen to Rob and Cat? Is there anything that's going to cheer me up further on?

keep reading and get out of this thread before you get spoiled by the robots and alien chapters.

[jayb]

He's likely referring to Marwyn, the Citadel maester who headed for Dany at the end of AFFC

He said no new POVs, not no new characters. That would be impossible.

ah, that makes sense. thanks.

[PhoenixPause]

Well I got a spoiler and found out about the red wedding a couple days ago, and honestly my usual interest to read the book at every little chance has faded. In all honesty its just a book but its got me pretty damn depressed, the same thing happened when Eddard died but I think this is even worst. I haven't read through it yet, but anyway....... Is there any redeeming reason for that to happen to Rob and Cat? Is there anything that's going to cheer me up further on? fuck

Not really

So you've already stumbled across major spoilers, and decide to post in a thread that features even more huge ones? Come on bro :(

[Cpt.Underpants]

Is there any redeeming reason for that to happen to Rob and Cat?

No, its war. People/Characters die, both Rob and Cat were too naive to trust that weasel of a lord. Rob's wolf was a lot more cautious about the faux wedding, unfortunately the wolf couldn't speak.

Is there anything that's going to cheer me up further on? fuck

Gaze your eyes unto Arya,Tyrion and Davos' POV hopefully they will have a longer lifespan in the books :).

And I'm also familiar with that feel when a likeable character dies

edit:names

[Violater]

Not really So you've already stumbled across major spoilers, and decide to post in a thread that features even more huge ones? Come on bro :(

Blehh... I need the motivation, who better to ask.

No, its war. People/Characters die, both Rob and Cat were too naive to trust that weasel of a lord. Rob's wolf was a lot more cautious about the faux wedding, unfortunately the wolf couldn't speak. Gaze your eyes unto Arya,Tyrion and Davos' POV hopefully they will have a longer lifespan in the books :). And I'm also familiar with that feel when Ygritte died

My fav characters, one can only hope.
Indeed Rob was naive, I guess grey wolf is dead as well, I wonder if bran will sense it all.
fuck....
Ok I'm out.

[Iksenpets]

And I'm also familiar with that feel when...

Dude, if he wasn't to the RW then he's not there yet either. I mean I know this is the spoiler thread and all, but... Anyway, conclusion is get out of this thread quickly if you haven't already.

[Violater]

Dude, if he wasn't to the RW then he's not there yet either. I mean I know this is the spoiler thread and all, but... Anyway, conclusion is get out of this thread quickly if you haven't already.

yea I don't care about her....

[Iksenpets]

yea I don't care about her....

Ha, alright. All's well that ends well, then.

[Violater]

Ha, alright. All's well that ends well, then.

I'm shipping for a Danny+Jon hookup :P
will never happen I know...

[Iksenpets]

I'm shipping for a Danny+Jon hookup :P will never happen I know...

It'll totally happen! Book 7 will be a romantic tour de force. And then Dany will die in the next chapter! Such is the way of George Martin.

[Rom1944]

i just hope the kingslayer and Stannis are still kicking in the next book those are the best for me. Also i really hope Ramsay dies a horrible dead by Theon (i know is unlikely but one can dream.)

[Baraka in the White House]

Finally caught up to ADWD and I can see why people who've been following the books as they were released would be pretty pissed.

I'm no writer and certainly no editor but from a storyboard perspective I have a hard time understanding why Martin apparently fussed over AFFC and ADWD so much and came to his decision to split the story there. I finished AFFC a couple months ago and just wrapped up ADWD last night and I'm having a hard time seeing how he couldn't have condensed these two books into one. There just doesn't seem to be enough plot-critical stuff going on in each book to sustain them on their own and both felt pretty plodding and uneventful compared to the previous books. The fact that Martin waited until the last 20 or so pages of each book to make any serious plot advancement was a borderline dick move on his part.

Also, I think Ramsay replaces Joffrey as the most despicable character in the universe for me. Dude's just a straight up animal. At least Joffrey had a tiny amoeba of personality. Although the Boltons in general seem like degenerates.

[ahoyhoy]

While I certainly shared your point of view on the issue after finishing aDwD, upon further reflection I'm not sure whether or not you can wholly chalk many of the events that occured in aFfC/aDwD as largely non "plot critical" in nature. For instance, I initally dismissed Brienne's seemingly pointless adventures as being just that... pointless, since we as the audience know her search for Sansa will ultimately be in vain. However, it does allow Martin to insert more interest snippets in regards to the universe of aSoIaF as a whole, which I always appreciate.

Aside from that, "Plot critical stuff" is a term best reserved for after the series has concluded. Who knows? Maybe some of the minor characters Tyrion ran into during his wacky river-rafting adventures prove to be "plot critical" during tWoW/aDoS.

[Veelk]

We don't know exactly what truly is plot critical until the story is completed and we can look back and see which parts mattered, but it is completely incorrect to say that nothing happened in either AFFC or ADWD.

[Kurashima]

I just finished reading Dance with Dragons last night, which I started after re-reading all the others. I had heard people were disappointed with it, so I didn't have extremely high expectations going in. But wow, this book blew me away. I think it's right up there with Storm of Swords as the best in the series.

[gdt]

Yeah, Dance might be my second favorite too. Can't wait to reread it.

The North Remembers.


Hot damn the Starks need to rise again.

when they do, so shall my penis rise as well

[Rei_Toei]

What do you guys expect from Moqorro and Marwyn, once they reach Dany/Mereen? I expect Marwyn'd sit better with Barristan/other Westerosi possibly, being an archmaester from the Citadel and all that. Might be he also has some good intel on dragon petkeeping 101. But Moqorro can do crazy fire god wizard tricks and comes with Victarion and mysterious horn. Maybe they'll compliment eachother.

[PhoenixPause]

What do you guys expect from Moqorro and Marwyn, once they reach Dany/Mereen? I expect Marwyn'd sit better with Barristan/other Westerosi possibly, being an archmaester from the Citadel and all that. Might be he also has some good intel on dragon petkeeping 101. But Moqorro can do crazy fire god wizard tricks and comes with Victarion and mysterious horn. Maybe they'll compliment eachother.

I think Marwyn is fucked considering he trained Miri Maz Dur; Dany won't trust him, and will probably burn him.

Dunno about Moqorro. On paper he seems like he'd be perfect for Dany - he's a representative for that priest guy who wants to free all the slaves, he believes she is a prophetic figure, etc. But is he simply what he says he is, or something else. I do believe he's tricking Victarion though lol

[Nlroh]

What do you guys expect from Moqorro and Marwyn, once they reach Dany/Mereen? I expect Marwyn'd sit better with Barristan/other Westerosi possibly, being an archmaester from the Citadel and all that. Might be he also has some good intel on dragon petkeeping 101. But Moqorro can do crazy fire god wizard tricks and comes with Victarion and mysterious horn. Maybe they'll compliment eachother.

Moqorro is more interested in Dany than Victarion. I suppose he'll ditch Victarion whenever he gets to her. I don't really know what to expect from Marwyn.

[SouthernDragon]

I think DwD and FfC set up some nifty things, like Sandor fighting his brother.

[Saya]

Just want to share this awesome fanart I came across:



Wallpaper size

[ZeroRay]

Awesome pic. Pretty much the only good Dany chapter in the book lol.

I wonder if HBO's gonna fork up the budget for something like that.

[Ninja Beagle]

Awesome pic. Pretty much the only good Dany chapter in the book lol.

Yea, very intense. I thought she was gonna get got.

[Mordeccai]

Wow Drogon is huge in that picture, in ADWD I more or less viewed the dragons as being pony sized, maybe horse sized. I am kind of hoping for Martin to do a 5 year or so time gap at the start of the next book so we can already have full grown dragons, assassin Arya and Azor Ahai being the Lord Commander of the Nights Watch.

[Cpt.Underpants]

Just want to share this awesome fanart I came across: Wallpaper size

Have you checked out Michael Komarck's ASOIF art? Its quite epic

[Kenak]

Wow Drogon is huge in that picture, in ADWD I more or less viewed the dragons as being pony sized, maybe horse sized. I am kind of hoping for Martin to do a 5 year or so time gap at the start of the next book so we can already have full grown dragons, assassin Arya and Azor Ahai being the Lord Commander of the Nights Watch.

I'm almost positive that's what they were described as.

[Emerson]

I'm almost positive that's what they were described as.

I'm pretty sure Drogon is supposed to be about 20 feet across by ADWD.

[elrechazado]

I'm pretty sure Drogon is supposed to be about 20 feet across by ADWD.

His wingspan. Which means his body wasn't very big at all, compared to how they are described in relation to their wings in earlier books. Remember, quentyn was going to steal one with a cart or some crap.

[Emerson]

His wingspan. Which means his body wasn't very big at all, compared to how they are described in relation to their wings in earlier books. Remember, quentyn was going to steal one with a cart or some crap.

Right, though I do believe Drogon is supposed to be substantially larger than the other 2 dragons.

In any case, I still think Drogon is bigger than what was implied above. The picture may be a bit exaggerated but it's not all that far off really.

[KingHenrik30]

Well I'm finally allowed to come in here, just finished ADWD today. Personally didn't think it was as good as it was talked up by my friends but better than Crows for sure.

[The Albatross]

Finally caught up to ADWD and I can see why people who've been following the books as they were released would be pretty pissed. I'm no writer and certainly no editor but from a storyboard perspective I have a hard time understanding why Martin apparently fussed over AFFC and ADWD so much and came to his decision to split the story there. I finished AFFC a couple months ago and just wrapped up ADWD last night and I'm having a hard time seeing how he couldn't have condensed these two books into one. There just doesn't seem to be enough plot-critical stuff going on in each book to sustain them on their own and both felt pretty plodding and uneventful compared to the previous books. The fact that Martin waited until the last 20 or so pages of each book to make any serious plot advancement was a borderline dick move on his part. Also, I think Ramsay replaces Joffrey as the most despicable character in the universe for me. Dude's just a straight up animal. At least Joffrey had a tiny amoeba of personality. Although the Boltons in general seem like degenerates.

I think you're very right. And it's not just plot critical stories, it's just -- IMO -- wastes of pages when you've read thousands of pages, and you know you're getting to the end of a book, and he's wasting language on the emotions that Dany is feeling in some green field. I remember being so pissed reading that last Dany chapter and being like "JEsus Christ George just get on with it..." And then, boom, Dany is back to the end of book 1. Her dragons got big and killed some people, she dated some people, some guy who is supposedly another guy shows up and thinks he's cool, and that's it.

[KingHenrik30]

I think you're very right. And it's not just plot critical stories, it's just -- IMO -- wastes of pages when you've read thousands of pages, and you know you're getting to the end of a book, and he's wasting language on the emotions that Dany is feeling in some green field. I remember being so pissed reading that last Dany chapter and being like "JEsus Christ George just get on with it..." And then, boom, Dany is back to the end of book 1. Her dragons got big and killed some people, she dated some people, some guy who is supposedly another guy shows up and thinks he's cool, and that's it.

Another example, how many times do I have to hear about how Tywin expelled his father's mistress? The fact that he's still wasting time writing about this in the epilogue of ADWD pisses me off. I definitely get that "COME ON GEORGE" thought in my head all the time, like when I'm reading the names of EVERY SHIP in Stannis' fleet.

[devilhawk]

The last several posts are reasons why AFfC is better than ADwD. ADwD did not have to be a complete tease. Martin has stated several times that whole battles were pulled from ADwD. AFfC may not be the greatest but it is exactly what it is suppose to be. I cannot say the same for ADwD.

[tokkun]

The Reek arc is better than the entirety of AFFC.

[Dany M]

Just want to share this awesome fanart I came across: Wallpaper size

I can't wait and see how they gimp that in the tv show

[devilhawk]

The Reek arc is better than the entirety of AFFC.

ADwD was the first time I abhorred Tyrion's story. That makes it worse by default. Plus I can tell you countless names of roles of the new characters from Dorne and the Iron Islands. Can anyone honestly tell me the same for those in ADwD?

[gdt]

The Reek arc is better than the entirety of AFFC.

Yeeeeeeep.

So is all the stuff in the North, The Wall, Bran, etc etc etc.

Granted, I haven't read Feast in years (almost done with my third read of SOS, so thats next) but I remember being bored to tears by large portions of it. Of course, I was in high school at the time, so that could've added to it.

[Count of Monte Sawed-Off]

ADwD was the first time I abhorred Tyrion's story. That makes it worse by default. Plus I can tell you countless names of roles of the new characters from Dorne and the Iron Islands. Can anyone honestly tell me the same for those in ADwD?

Yeah, the first time in the series I dreaded the next Tyrion chapter rather than be excited for it.

[Tacitus_]

Yeeeeeeep. So is all the stuff in the North, The Wall, Bran, etc etc etc. Granted, I haven't read Feast in years (almost done with my third read of SOS, so thats next) but I remember being bored to tears by large portions of it. Of course, I was in high school at the time, so that could've added to it.

OTOH, the other half of the book that doesnt happen in the North is boring as fuck most of the time. At least Feast had only one boring POV, Brienne.

[Lactose_Intolerant]

Just want to share this awesome fanart I came across: Wallpaper size

The dragon is way too big and the wings are pretty bad. It has 2 bones come out of its elbow. Then the other wing only has 1. It's bad enough that there are bones coming out of the elbow, then they don't even match.

How is it supporting itself? The wing claws are the part that should be touching the ground.

Stadium looks too large. But that's probably to make the size of the dragon fit into it.

[gdt]

OTOH, the other half of the book that doesnt happen in the North is boring as fuck most of the time. At least Feast had only one boring POV, Brienne.

Can't say that at all, to me. Tyrion's chapters were good (though certainly not as good as before), and I *liked* Dany's chapters.

[KingHenrik30]

OTOH, the other half of the book that doesnt happen in the North is boring as fuck most of the time. At least Feast had only one boring POV, Brienne.

was one of the only redeeming qualities of Feast for me

[Saya]

I enjoyed AFFC a lot more the second time I read it. Maester Aemon's parts in the book especially struck a chord with, and I really would not mind knowing more about him.

"Egg, I dreamed that I was old..."