[purple cobra]

I think he meant behind as in Xbox is closer to being final & PS4 isn't close to being final.

I want to take it that way as well.

[Sid]

I think he meant behind as in Xbox is closer to being final & PS4 isn't close to being final.

Wtf?so when exactly does sony plan on releasing the ps4?not launching in fall 2013 with the next cod would handicap the sales of the ps4 from the get go

[Mindlog]

The Sony Surface(like?) tablet has undoubtedly been a cause for confusion on at least a few points.

[BruiserBear]

Wtf?so when exactly does sony plan on releasing the ps4?not launching in fall 2013 with the next cod would handicap the sales of the ps4 from the get go

There have been signs Sony is targeting 2014 for a while now. Jack Tretton said at E3 that "it's not about being first to the market for them, it's about having the best machine".

It really seems as if they haven't learned much from the PS3. It was the best machine, but it didn't matter because it was a year late and $200 more expensive.

[RavenholmDX]

There have been signs Sony is targeting 2014 for a while now. Jack Tretton said at E3 that "it's not about being first to the market for them, it's about having the best machine". It really seems as if they haven't learned much from the PS3. It was the best machine, but it didn't matter because it was a year late and $200 more expensive.

But what if it's 6 months late and $100 cheaper?

That could be a good move.

[Zen]

There have been signs Sony is targeting 2014 for a while now. Jack Tretton said at E3 that "it's not about being first to the market for them, it's about having the best machine". It really seems as if they haven't learned much from the PS3. It was the best machine, but it didn't matter because it was a year late and $200 more expensive.

I would agree that it is the best machine, but it wasn't really demonstrably so from the outset. It had BlueRay, but the first and third party stuff there wasn't up to the 360 standards at the time. If they are delaying it another year, and getting slightly higher quality parts in some areas with a standard architecture, the difference might be more noticeable this time.

They could also be banking on a relatively soft economy softening the blow of then launching a year later in comparison to how hot the market was at the start of this generation.

[Giant Panda]

I have a feeling Sony is willing to wait to get the PS4 to market with at least marginally better specs than the next Xbox. If they need to wait they will, if not they'll launch within a couple months of the competition. Sony's own quotes have reflected that they want to have the most powerful hardware, they don't feel pressure to come out ASAP, and they don't seem to be as interested in the whole living room domination as much as Microsoft is. Having better specs would allow them to really focus on the core gamer market, especially since it'll give them an advantage in multiplatform games.

No, I think that was all Sony PR BS. I think they know launching late and more costly is the exact opposite of how to make money.

Unless Sony really is that stupid.

[KageMaru]

I have a feeling Sony is willing to wait to get the PS4 to market with at least marginally better specs than the next Xbox. If they need to wait they will, if not they'll launch within a couple months of the competition. Sony's own quotes have reflected that they want to have the most powerful hardware, they don't feel pressure to come out ASAP, and they don't seem to be as interested in the whole living room domination as much as Microsoft is. Having better specs would allow them to really focus on the core gamer market, especially since it'll give them an advantage in multiplatform games.

It's all marketing PR fluff and kool-aid, just like with the ps2 and ps3. You really can't take anything they say in this sense serious. They've also said in the past they don't want to be last, so which PR line do we believe? Also they have no way to guarantee their system will be the most powerful next gen since designs are done way before manufacturing takes place.

Also, regardless of how things look now, they are looking to expand into taking over the living room. They already announced plans to unify all of their media products, and that's just the first step. I think they realize they will have to chase this market with MS, Google, and Apple chasing the same thing.

There have been signs Sony is targeting 2014 for a while now. Jack Tretton said at E3 that "it's not about being first to the market for them, it's about having the best machine". It really seems as if they haven't learned much from the PS3. It was the best machine, but it didn't matter because it was a year late and $200 more expensive.

Again all marketing BS. They'll surely launch in 2013, I'd even bet money on it.

[Speedymanic]

An Update to the Microsoft and Sony Agreements

So what does this mean with regard to BC?

The 360 is powered by AMD tech? So that means full BC is guaranteed? What about the PS3?

[onQ123]

There have been signs Sony is targeting 2014 for a while now. Jack Tretton said at E3 that "it's not about being first to the market for them, it's about having the best machine". It really seems as if they haven't learned much from the PS3. It was the best machine, but it didn't matter because it was a year late and $200 more expensive.

A Year behind & $200 more expensive yet it's right on the Xbox 360's heel & gave Blu-Ray the edge that it needed to become the standard HD Movie disc format & still going strong going on 6 years without a price tag below $200 yet with a few more years in it's tank.

[BruiserBear]

Again all marketing BS. They'll surely launch in 2013, I'd even bet money on it.

I hope you're right, because I think it's going to be better for everyone if Sony shows up right alongside the next Xbox.

But I still think there are more signs of Sony being 2014. Even their first party game lineup points towards 2014, while Microsoft's points towards 2013.

Sony have a bunch of first party games in the works for next year. That is not the kind of lineup you have when you're about to launch a new console.

A Year behind & $200 more expensive yet it's right on the Xbox 360's heel & gave Blu-Ray the edge that it needed to become the standard HD Movie disc format & still going strong going on 6 years without a price tag below $200 yet with a few more years in it's tank.

Yes, Sony certainly closed the gap over the past few years, but if you're analyzing the last 7 years honestly, there is no way to label that anything but a disappointment for Sony.

[AgentP]

Sony have a bunch of first party games in the works for next year. That is not the kind of lineup you have when you're about to launch a new console.

Not if you have a large amount 1st party devs. The known games for 2013 is really small compared to the unknown stuff that is suspected to be next gen.

[Sid]

A Year behind & $200 more expensive yet it's right on the Xbox 360's heel & gave Blu-Ray the edge that it needed to become the standard HD Movie disc format & still going strong going on 6 years without a price tag below $200 yet with a few more years in it's tank.

Yes that is a total drop from their position as leaders for a decade or so in the previous 2 gens,i don't think sony would want to repeat the same mistake again,launching worldwide during fall 2013 along with the latest cod would help it go toe to toe with the nextbox otherwise sony will most likely never overcome the sales gap even if ps4 launches with the same price tag as the nextbox but later than fall 2013

[Canis lupus]

Not if you have a large amount 1st party devs. The known games for 2013 is really small compared to the unknown stuff that is suspected to be next gen.

I shouldnt even think what MM, Guerilla, Santa Monica, Naughty Dog are making right now...

[patsu]

I hope you're right, because I think it's going to be better for everyone if Sony shows up right alongside the next Xbox. But I still think there are more signs of Sony being 2014. Even their first party game lineup points towards 2014, while Microsoft's points towards 2013. Sony have a bunch of first party games in the works for next year. That is not the kind of lineup you have when you're about to launch a new console.

Somewhere in there, they also need to fit Gaikai into the grand scheme of things. ^_^

Yes, Sony certainly closed the gap over the past few years, but if you're analyzing the last 7 years honestly, there is no way to label that anything but a disappointment for Sony.

I suspect Sony execs have mixed feelings about the PS3 generation. On one hand, they lost major market share, on the other they gained significant depth in the game and services side of their businesses, and matured as one organization instead of a messy web of unrelated entities shooting at each other, plus other people.

They should also be glad that Blu-ray and other HD efforts take root. 3D and 4K may require more time, resources and thought.

[phosphor112]

No, I think that was all Sony PR BS. I think they know launching late and more costly is the exact opposite of how to make money. Unless Sony really is that stupid.

Waiting a few months can lead to higher yields at a cheaper cost. They can help stifle MS's new console launch by basically talk (and show) how their product is better, for cheaper.. or the same price.

[Sid]

Waiting a few months can lead to higher yields at a cheaper cost. They can help stifle MS's new console launch by basically talk (and show) how their product is better, for cheaper.. or the same price.

So if it launches for the same price but later why would the 'core' care?

[Mindlog]

Placing any sort of faith in semiconductor fabrication scheduling seems... optimistic.

[Globox_82]

I have lost interest in this gen. there are only 4 more games I want to play tbh. 3 are sony exclusives. But for the next gen I am not waiting Sony, no way. We waited year and a half almost in EU for PS3 to be released after 360. Sorry sony.

[gundamkyoukai]

Placing any sort of faith in semiconductor fabrication scheduling seems... optimistic.

This , that was also a mistake that happen with PS3 .
There no telling how semiconductor fabrication going to work out and die shrinks becoming even harder to do not going to help either .

[KageMaru]

But I still think there are more signs of Sony being 2014. Even their first party game lineup points towards 2014, while Microsoft's points towards 2013. Sony have a bunch of first party games in the works for next year. That is not the kind of lineup you have when you're about to launch a new console.

There is plenty of time to spread out those 2013 releases throughout the year, especially if they plan to launch the PS4 around November.

The amount of titles planned for a year shouldn't really matter. IIRC MS had Doom 3, Conker Live and Reloaded, Forza, Half Life 2, and a Halo 2 expansion pack all during the same year the 360 launched. Besides, Sony has shown with GoW2 that they are willing to launch last gen titles after a new gen starts.

I suspect Sony execs have mixed feelings about the PS3 generation. On one hand, they lost major market share, on the other they gained significant depth in the game and services side of their businesses, and matured as one organization instead of a messy web of unrelated entities shooting at each other, plus other people. They should also be glad that Blu-ray and other HD efforts take root. 3D and 4K may require more time, resources and thought.

I think you would be hard pressed to find any exec really happy about anything regarding the PS3. They could have learned all those lessons without losing so much.

Waiting a few months can lead to higher yields at a cheaper cost. They can help stifle MS's new console launch by basically talk (and show) how their product is better, for cheaper.. or the same price.

Assuming the technology is similar, any yield improvements Sony would enjoy, so would MS. Also 6 months isn't going to give you any leap in performance worth mentioning.

As for talking or showing how their product is better, do you mean showing a bunch of useless tech demos and pre-rendered vids like they did the last two generations straight? =p

[onQ123]

Yes that is a total drop from their position as leaders for a decade or so in the previous 2 gens,i don't think sony would want to repeat the same mistake again,launching worldwide during fall 2013 along with the latest cod would help it go toe to toe with the nextbox otherwise sony will most likely never overcome the sales gap even if ps4 launches with the same price tag as the nextbox but later than fall 2013

but they never stopped being the leader because they have sold over 100 Million consoles since the beginning of this Generation & Next Gen should be the same , PS3 at a lower price for the people who don't want to spend so much money on a console & PS4 for people who are welling to pay a higher price for new tech & the PS3 will sell long enough for them to get the low end sells while the PS4 price come down over the years.

[onQ123]

I have lost interest in this gen. there are only 4 more games I want to play tbh. 3 are sony exclusives. But for the next gen I am not waiting Sony, no way. We waited year and a half almost in EU for PS3 to be released after 360. Sorry sony.

Tech heads are ready for the New Generation but most people are ok with the PS3 & Xbox 360 for now & maybe a few years & they will need to be a big differences in the new consoles or a cheap replacement for the consoles that's out now or most people wouldn't even see a need to move on just yet.


just look at the Wii U most people think it's just a new controller for the Wii right now even though the difference between the Wii & Wii U should be easy to see with the Wii U being HD & a lot more powerful than the Wii.


MS & Sony best bet is to wait a little longer so that the PS3 & Xbox 360 look like old news to even the casual crowd & 2014 seem more like the best time for Sony because 2013 still has games that make the PS3 shine.

[Razgreez]

I think you would be hard pressed to find any exec really happy about anything regarding the PS3. They could have learned all those lessons without losing so much.

Haha, if you were in charge right? Not to flame you or anything but even knowing what we, and Sony, know now the fact of the matter is that there was just way too much restructuring and way too little experience within the company, with regards to online gaming services to overcome those hurdles any easier - other things equal. The best lessons are learnt the hard way

With regards to Sony and Microsoft using the same CPU in their next consoles... Where the ugliest smoke billows, there's usually fire there

[Giant Panda]

MS & Sony best bet is to wait a little longer so that the PS3 & Xbox 360 look like old news to even the casual crowd & 2014 seem more like the best time for Sony because 2013 still has games that make the PS3 shine.

Just because Sony has new games for 2013 doesn't mean they can't launch PS4 as well. Additionally sales are still falling for Sony and waiting longer won't help in that regard. It will be interesting to see if the PS3 slimmer slim boosts sales as that will determine how long Sony can wait.

[gaming_noob]

"Barely been designed"? I really doubt that.

[onQ123]

Just because Sony has new games for 2013 doesn't mean they can't launch PS4 as well. Additionally sales are still falling for Sony and waiting longer won't help in that regard. It will be interesting to see if the PS3 slimmer slim boosts sales as that will determine how long Sony can wait.

I know that & chances are they might release in 2013 I'm just saying it might be better for them to release in 2014 because a lot of people are still satisfied with the PS3 level graphics & don't see much need for a upgrade so next gen might have a really slow start in 2012/2013.

just look how Wii U is mostly being ignored by the mainstream, their isn't a real big push for Next Gen hardware right now, last time it was HD & Motion Controls that grabbed peoples attention right now it's not much that's separating the Wii U from what's out here now because the Touch pad is being covered by all the phones & Tablets, but lucky for Nintendo they are Nintendo & their games will wake people up when they see that the new Nintendo games can't be played on the old Wii & seeing the new consoles in the stores this Christmas will get things rolling.

[mrklaw]

Assuming the technology is similar, any yield improvements Sony would enjoy, so would MS. Also 6 months isn't going to give you any leap in performance worth mentioning. As for talking or showing how their product is better, do you mean showing a bunch of useless tech demos and pre-rendered vids like they did the last two generations straight? =p

The only benefit would be if they can wait for a smaller process and therefore get more into the box at the start. Otherwise you're right, they'd just be getting slightly better yields which isn't that important at launch (in the grand scheme of things)

'barely designed' seems unlikely, or is that huge write down in the accounts just for vita?

And those Tretton comments need to be taken in the context of E3. You're there to sell PS3 so your message needs to clearly show you're focused on that console. It has no bearing on when they will release PS4.

[phosphor112]

Just because Sony has new games for 2013 doesn't mean they can't launch PS4 as well. Additionally sales are still falling for Sony and waiting longer won't help in that regard. It will be interesting to see if the PS3 slimmer slim boosts sales as that will determine how long Sony can wait.

Release blockbuster, AAA budget games, then release a non-backward compatible PS4.

Yep. I see that happening!

[Ramblin]

Waiting a few months can lead to higher yields at a cheaper cost. They can help stifle Sega's new console launch by basically talk (and show) how their product is better, for cheaper.. or the same price.

Isn't that what they always do?

[phosphor112]

Isn't that what they always do?

Probably. Not releasing a console for 600 (when its worth 900) this time around should put them in a much better situation.

[KageMaru]

The only benefit would be if they can wait for a smaller process and therefore get more into the box at the start. Otherwise you're right, they'd just be getting slightly better yields which isn't that important at launch (in the grand scheme of things) 'barely designed' seems unlikely, or is that huge write down in the accounts just for vita? And those Tretton comments need to be taken in the context of E3. You're there to sell PS3 so your message needs to clearly show you're focused on that console. It has no bearing on when they will release PS4.

How I understand it is these systems are expected to be processed on 28nm process and the move to 22nm won't be any time soon. So they should already have a good idea over their transistor budgets and such. In this case, waiting is not going to do them much good.

Release blockbuster, AAA budget games, then release a non-backward compatible PS4. Yep. I see that happening!

Well those games are meant to be sold to the large install base of the PS3, not the PS4. =p

[RoboPlato]

"Barely been designed"? I really doubt that.

Could it be interpreted it as the development kits have barely been updated and redesigned? They could have a decent approximation of the hardware so they can't really change much until the actual final parts are in production.

[Persona86]

Wtf?so when exactly does sony plan on releasing the ps4?not launching in fall 2013 with the next cod would handicap the sales of the ps4 from the get go

Haven't people had enough of COD yet? I was sort of hoping next gen would move on from it. (too much money to make I guess, hopefully they innovate more in BO2)

[phosphor112]

Well those games are meant to be sold to the large install base of the PS3, not the PS4. =p

That gives me no incentive to buy a ps4 over a xb3 then. PS4 doesn't play PS3 games? Still expensive? Oh well! I've got a backlog of SEVERAL AAA PS3 titles.

I don't see it...

[JohnnySasaki86]

No, I think that was all Sony PR BS. I think they know launching late and more costly is the exact opposite of how to make money. Unless Sony really is that stupid.

Except they told their stockholders in May 2012 that they were in no rush to release a next gen console. That's not PR bs, they're not gonna lie to their stock holders. I've been calling a Spring 2014 Jap launch, and then a late summer/early Fall NA PS4 launch for a while now.

[purple cobra]

Again all marketing BS. They'll surely launch in 2013, I'd even bet money on it.

I sure hope so. I'd love to get a PS4 in 2013.

[[Clark Gable]]

Smells like a swan song. For sony's sake they better not let Ms grab even more of their audience.

[KageMaru]

That gives me no incentive to buy a ps4 over a xb3 then. PS4 doesn't play PS3 games? Still expensive? Oh well! I've got a backlog of SEVERAL AAA PS3 titles. I don't see it...

You could always enjoy your PS3 and pick up a next gen system when the dust settles. =)

Except they told their stockholders in May 2012 that they were in no rush to release a next gen console. That's not PR bs, they're not gonna lie to their stock holders. I've been calling a Spring 2014 Jap launch, and then a late summer/early Fall NA PS4 launch for a while now.

That comment is so vague they could release in 2013 and not lie.

I'm thinking late 2013 US launch, followed by Japan and Europe in 2014.

[Giant Panda]

Except they told their stockholders in May 2012 that they were in no rush to release a next gen console. That's not PR bs, they're not gonna lie to their stock holders. I've been calling a Spring 2014 Jap launch, and then a late summer/early Fall NA PS4 launch for a while now.

A year and a half away isn't a "rush", that doesn't preclude a holiday 2013 release. Also they still don't want the message getting out that the new console is coming out while they're trying to sell PS3.

[JohnnySasaki86]

You could always enjoy your PS3 and pick up a next gen system when the dust settles. =) That comment is so vague they could release in 2013 and not lie. I'm thinking late 2013 US launch, followed by Japan and Europe in 2014.

Yes thats possible, but when you combined those statements with the technology advances that could be made with 3D stacked memory by releasing in 2014 it just seems even more likely.

Also they've never released a system in NA or any territory before Japan. I dont see them starting that now. It must be easier and cheaper to launch in Japan cause its their home country. Which allows them to launch it sooner there, right? There must be a reason beyond just cause they choose to.

[Shikoro]

I'm thinking late 2013 US launch, followed by Japan and Europe in 2014.

Why would they launch in the States first? If we're anything to go by, every one of Sony's consoles have been first released in Japan, and then over here so I don't expect it to change, nor does it have to. If they were to release the PS4 in Japan around March or so of 2014, and then in June or July in the west, I think that that would be the best for everyone.

[JohnnySasaki86]

Why would they launch in the States first? If we're anything to go by, every one of Sony's consoles have been first released in Japan, and then over here so I don't expect it to change, nor does it have to. If they were to release the PS4 in Japan around March or so of 2014, and then in June or July in the west, I think that that would be the best for everyone.

Agreed. Give more time for software to develop too, they should be able to lead into a super strong holiday 2014 line up for PS4. It would allow PS3 to have its last strong holiday without interference from PS4 as well. Games like the Last of Us and Beyond Two Souls and any unannounced FP titles will sell more.

[onQ123]

Smells like a swan song. For sony's sake they better not let Ms grab even more of their audience.

Remember all the next gen consoles that released in the Generation after the SNES/ Genesis ?

none of them took off because it wasn't really a cry for new 2D gaming hardware at that moment & all the newer consoles brought to the table was better looking games & even the PS1 had a slow start bringing 3D gaming in, this is where console gaming is at right now with HD gaming, being 1st with a Next Gen HD console is not a automatic win because most of the buyers are not really dying for better graphics yet & without a big change in gaming most people will continue to enjoy PS3/Xbox 360 gaming & sit the 1st few years of the next generation out.


Xbox 360 brought in HD Gaming when people was transitioning into HDTVs & Wii Brought in standardized Motion controls for the whole console, PS3 brought in Blu-Ray & the claim of True HD.

what is the big push for the new consoles? right now it look like it's going to be Multimedia functions for the most part & just upgrades to what we already have so being 1st could lead to being cannibalized by the Consoles that's already out & selling at a lower price with more games.

[phosphor112]

You could always enjoy your PS3 and pick up a next gen system when the dust settles. =)

I've never done that. Don't think I ever will. Even then I still want to use my DD games on my PSN account, but I don't want to keep my PS3 if the PS4 plays blurays and all that shit as well... minus PS3 game.

[iceatcs]

I won't take DaE seriously. The twitter seem bit of biased.

[KageMaru]

Yes thats possible, but when you combined those statements with the technology advances that could be made with 3D stacked memory by releasing in 2014 it just seems even more likely. Also they've never released a system in NA or any territory before Japan. I dont see them starting that now. It must be easier and cheaper to launch in Japan cause its their home country. Which allows them to launch it sooner there, right? There must be a reason beyond just cause they choose to.

Even if these consoles were delayed to 2014, I'm not convinced we would see 3D stacked memory in them.

Why would they launch in the States first? If we're anything to go by, every one of Sony's consoles have been first released in Japan, and then over here so I don't expect it to change, nor does it have to. If they were to release the PS4 in Japan around March or so of 2014, and then in June or July in the west, I think that that would be the best for everyone.

IMO there are a couple reasons why they should release in NA first.

-The importance of Japan, in terms of console sales, has diminished greatly this gen. It's handheld land over there basically.

-NA is the largest market, and we know MS will launch there first. I don't think it would be smart for Sony to give MS the head start in their strongest territory.

Agreed. Give more time for software to develop too, they should be able to lead into a super strong holiday 2014 line up for PS4. It would allow PS3 to have its last strong holiday without interference from PS4 as well. Games like the Last of Us and Beyond Two Souls and any unannounced FP titles will sell more.

There will already be interference from the two other next gen consoles in the market come holiday 2013. Though that still shouldn't stop LoU and Beyond from selling well, which is exactly why Sony shouldn't hold back the ps4 for a couple games. GoW2 still sold well even though the Ps3 was on the market. I understand the PS3 supported BC back then, but I question how much that mattered with GoW2 sales considering how poorly the HD systems were selling early on.

I've never done that. Don't think I ever will. Even then I still want to use my DD games on my PSN account, but I don't want to keep my PS3 if the PS4 plays blurays and all that shit as well... minus PS3 game.

Yeah I understand what you mean. Kind of been in the same boat myself, where I need to get at least on at launch. Don't really care which I get, I just want the best bang for my buck. The ps4 was sounding better at first, but now we have some people saying the xbox looks more powerful. So now I'm still undecided lol There's still plenty of time for them to (hopefully) surprise us.

[patsu]

I think you would be hard pressed to find any exec really happy about anything regarding the PS3. They could have learned all those lessons without losing so much.

Not every organization and exec can survive and thrive after the issues Sony faced internally. I wouldn't be surprised if the top execs feel happy with how PS3 turned out despite those struggles. Some of the huge problems are not PS3 specific anyway. They would have to sink in a lot of money, learn from other mistakes to overcome the same challenges anyway.

For one, I have heard Sony folks feel excited about how PSN turn out, compared to their clueless SonyConnect effort. Even the Anonymous hack has made them stronger, and according to Sony, they didn't suffer too much from the sales front.

Sony Pictures should be very happy with PS3 for opening up the Blu-ray market despite the early HDM war.

The Sony game studios should also give themselves a pat in the back for maturing steadily despite the hard times.

While forumites only look at high sales numbers, how a company manage themselves during hard times also defines their management quality.

[phosphor112]

Yeah I understand what you mean. Kind of been in the same boat myself, where I need to get at least on at launch. Don't really care which I get, I just want the best bang for my buck. The ps4 was sounding better at first, but now we have some people saying the xbox looks more powerful. So now I'm still undecided lol There's still plenty of time for them to (hopefully) surprise us.

I don't agree with you often, but this is what I feel. And honestly... 2014... I want them late 2014. I don't want a half ass product from either of them.

[Loghorn150]

A Year behind & $200 more expensive yet it's right on the Xbox 360's heel & gave Blu-Ray the edge that it needed to become the standard HD Movie disc format & still going strong going on 6 years without a price tag below $200 yet with a few more years in it's tank.

That's because of the numerous price drops that Sony did for it over it's lifespan, & coming off of PS2's huge success.