[Bending_Unit_22]

Grownups with jobs don't have time with a Vita and they get their fix on their smartphone with $1-10 games. Grownups without a job can't afford it. and you'd rather buy a kid a cheap smartphone instead of a Vita since games are $1-10 on it and you can call the kid and ask him why the hell he isn't in school ;)

Well, some grownups with jobs still like dedicated handhelds though most in that group probably grew up playing Nintendo games and are ok with a cheap Nintendo dedicated handheld.

A surprising number of grownups without jobs seem to be able to afford to latest overpriced Apple iWhatever these days. Yeah, not a major market for a handheld anyways.

Or you buy a kid a cheap dedicated handheld, as always the largest market for them though they have to be cheap.

Yeah, that's an easy thing to do. Just look at all those multi million selling Pokemon like games out there.

Now now, Pokemon might be silly, but Sony seriously just needs to make a Mario. Problem solved.

[lunchwithyuzo]

compare the 3ds with circle pad pro to a normal 3ds/vita.

Yeah, it's way more comfortable than a vanilla 3DS or Vita. Function > Form.

[Canis lupus]

Well, for starters, I wouldn't compare Monster Hunter to Pokemon. Monster Hunter is a beast, of course, but it's not Pokemon. Anyway, your post points out another major issue that Sony has to overcome to survive: They rely on third parties the most of the three system manufacturers.

They turned that around with the PS3 however.

[Syntsui]

I blame:
The lack of PS1 compatibility, which they promised.
The lack of remote controlable games, which they promised.
(These two aspects just show that they are a bunch of liars)

The lack of games which are essencial.
(They release a lot of good games when they launched it, but now what do we have?)

The lack of marketing and support.
(Seriously, I have friends that don't even know that this thing exist and there are a lot of indie, simple games that could be released for a small price but aren't)

The absurd price and necessity to buy cards.
(As good as it is, it's an expensive portable)

[Green Slime]

Still too expensive.

That's a whole different issue, though. Nintendo priced the system too high right out of the gate, likely due to the hype and investor pressure, and dropped the price hard early on.

I suspect 3DS drops to $150 and XL drops to $180 come E3 2013.

[kyo27]

Grownups with jobs don't have time with a Vita and they get their fix on their smartphone with $1-10 games. Grownups without a job can't afford it. and you'd rather buy a kid a cheap smartphone instead of a Vita since games are $1-10 on it and you can call the kid and ask him why the hell he isn't in school ;)

If a teenager or young adult has to choose between a smartphone or Vita, they will choose a smartphone. They would rather spend their time on facebook and twitter nowadays, rather than play Uncharted on the go.

[sajj316]

This is from the report ..

Sales decreased 14.5% year-on-year (a 10% decrease on a constant currency basis) to 118.0 billion yen (1,493 million U.S. dollars). This decrease was primarily due to lower sales of hardware and software of the PSP® (PlayStation Portable) and PlayStation®3, partially offset by the contribution of the PlayStation®Vita introduced from December 2011.

So did the Vita put Sony further into the red or less in the red? If its put Sony less in the red, the entire basis of this article is completely wrong. Am I missing something here??

[Green Slime]

They turned that around with the PS3 however.

Did they? They're in last place, and lost a TON of money.

[9thwonder]

"Uh...uhh...nothing to really counter this...I'll throw some weak ass insults!"

I explained why 3ds hardware sucks

[commish]

Anyway, your post points out another major issue that Sony has to overcome to survive: They rely on third parties the most of the three system manufacturers.

Eh, that's not really an issue. For one, I would disagree, as I think Sony has a better list of first party games than the 360. By a lot. Second, Nintendo can't rely on 3rd parties because most of them don't see Nintendo's platforms as viable for their IPs.

Did they? They're in last place, and lost a TON of money.

Which system do you think had the greatest number of quality games this generation?

[Loghorn150]

I explained why 3ds hardware sucks

Like I said before, having better power & graphics alone never sells home gaming consoles or dedicated portable handhelds to the masses. It's been proven over & over again.

They turned that around with the PS3 however.

And lost a lot of billions as a result of that & constantly lowering the PS3's prices since launch just to get more PS3's to sell.

[lunchwithyuzo]

They turned that around with the PS3 however.

No they didn't? They've invested way more in 1st party projects, but it hasn't really paid off commercially for them. What Sony spent on Uncharted probably could've funded Nintendo's entire Wii ____ line.

[Jaded Alyx]

the vita version could be if Sony wasn't the worse company in video game history when it comes to marketing. have you seen it? it uses all of vitas features to its fullest potential dude its absolutely amazing

have you seen lbp vita? its god like this could be that "unique" game on vita you are taking about

its amazing

Sheesh.

[electroplankton]

I traded in my vita for a 3dsxl yesterday. My most played vita games were Rayman, virtua tennis, hot shots golf and mutant blobs. I could have the first 3 on my ps3 and the last is coming to steam. Hot shots golf on ps3 is not the same game, but its close enough. I have super Mario 3d land and am planning to get revelations soon, and I can't get either anywhere else. I think that's where the problem with the vita lies, no exclusivity.

You should have waited a bit more since it may end up somewhere else, digitally speaking (I'm a huge fan of RE:R, it's not port begging).

[goonergaz]

You're basically telling people this: "Hey, I know you already have a phone, but get this! If you spend $250 on a Vita, another $20+ on a memory card, and then ~$40 for LBP Vita, you can download a bunch of clones of popular mobile games for FREE!!! FREE, DAMMIT!!! How could you guys NOT want to get in on this action?!?!?!?"

altho I did say to sell it as a package to begin with

[Four_Chamber]

Not surprised at all by terrible Vita sales. It cracks me up when Sony higher-ups say the sales are "strong" or "in line with expectations." I think the software lineup has been solid, I just don't see the market for it. I don't think they'll reach that 8 million Vita target anyway as they'll need strong North American sales to reach that target. We know Japan won't power sales to those levels (AC and CoD won't shift units there at all). It will be awfully embarrassing if the Vita goes the way of other short-lived handhelds.

[Steve McQueen]

I often speak to the guys at my local gameshop and Vita is doing very,very bad.Sony won't even let them have a demo-unit so people can try it. They're doing everything they can to improve the sales ( Vita for 220 euro incl. 4GB stick and any game you want ) but they hardly sell them. When you compare the space in store that the Vita gets and compare that space with the space of the 3DS/3DSXL the difference is mindblowing. And when I visit this gameshop and talk to the guys, I never witnessed that someone was interested in buying one. I'm worried. The PSV is an awesome machine, and does not deserve this.

[Green Slime]

Eh, that's not really an issue. For one, I would disagree, as I think Sony has a better list of first party games than the 360. By a lot. Second, Nintendo can't rely on 3rd parties because most of them don't see Nintendo's platforms as viable for their IPs. Which system do you think had the greatest number of quality games this generation?

Nintendo's third party developer issues are too complex to bring up here, honestly.

As for 360, I'd agree for the most part, but I think that Microsoft's IPs are much more valuable overall than Sony's.

As for the system that had the greatest number of quality games this gen, I'd say either DS and/or PSP, but that's just me.

[bangai-o]

no Loco Roco no buy.

[Father_Brain]

Well, for starters, I wouldn't compare Monster Hunter to Pokemon. Monster Hunter is a beast, of course, but it's not Pokemon. Anyway, your post points out another major issue that Sony has to overcome to survive: They rely on third parties the most of the three system manufacturers.

And Vita is the first system they've launched without the enormous benefit of having third parties' expectations on their side. We can all see just how well Sony prepared for that scenario.

I don't think PS4 will be in nearly as bad a position, because it's a console, because third parties generally did well on PS3 eventually, and because Durango exclusives simply won't be an option in most cases, but it's worth keeping in mind.

[goonergaz]

have you seen lbp vita? its god like this could be that "unique" game on vita you are taking about

I know - maybe they think all you can do is make LBP style mini levels...it really could be a killer app - and that's all I'm saying COULD

[Bending_Unit_22]

Did they? They're in last place, and lost a TON of money.

Not to mention Sony benefited greatly with the PS3 from 1) right out of the gate massive support for the successor to The King, 2) continued support even though it sold terribly from 3rd parties thanks to the 360, 3) major advantage in Japanese 3rd parties, 4) support from Sony's great 2nd parties, and 5) a healthier bottom line that could absorb the hits required to turn things around.

Which benefit is also present for the Vita?

Which system do you think had the greatest number of quality games this generation?

The DS hands down. I think the N64 had the most its generation, and much more debatably of course, I think the GCN did last gen. What does that matter when discussing systems in a business context?

[lunchwithyuzo]

You should have waited a bit more since it may end up somewhere else, digitally speaking (I'm a huge fan of RE:R, it's not port begging).

I think if Revelations gets ported, it'll be to consoles. Vita's market can't properly support it, iOS/Android interfaces can't properly support it.

[Canis lupus]

No they didn't? They've invested way more in 1st party projects, but it hasn't really paid off commercially for them. What Sony spent on Uncharted probably could've funded Nintendo's entire Wii ____ line.

Uncharted 2 cost only $20m, while Nintendo may spend less on game development, they're probably spending a lot more on marketing.

[Colonel Mustard]

I explained why 3ds hardware sucks

That's cool.

The hardware is adequate enough to deliver some high-end experiences which classes it far and away out of the realm of sucking.

[commish]

Nintendo's third party developer issues are too complex to bring up here, honestly. As for 360, I'd agree for the most part, but I think that Microsoft's IPs are much more valuable overall than Sony's. As for the system that had the greatest number of quality games this gen, I'd say either DS and/or PSP, but that's just me.

More valuable? Not sure what that has to do with the price of tea in China... but doesn't really matter, I guess.

And I was talking about the consoles, though in no way could I say the PSP had a greater number of quality games than the PS3. And I played my PSP til the buttons fell off.

[Takuan]

This is from the report .. Sales decreased 14.5% year-on-year (a 10% decrease on a constant currency basis) to 118.0 billion yen (1,493 million U.S. dollars). This decrease was primarily due to lower sales of hardware and software of the PSP® (PlayStation Portable) and PlayStation®3, partially offset by the contribution of the PlayStation®Vita introduced from December 2011. So did the Vita put Sony further into the red or less in the red? If its put Sony less in the red, the entire basis of this article is completely wrong. Am I missing something here??

The quote appears to imply that the Vita was a positive for Sony which, if true, is embarrassing.

[Green Slime]

Uncharted 2 cost only $20m, while Nintendo may spend less on game development, they're probably spending a lot more on marketing.

The difference is, that money spent on marketing is doing a lot more for Nintendo than the $20 million Sony put into Uncharted 2 is doing for them.

[Canis lupus]

Did they? They're in last place, and lost a TON of money.

I was talking of being relying too much on 3rd parties. Nintendo doesnt rely on 3rd party, their own games sells the system.

[Sho_Nuff82]

This is from the report .. So did the Vita put Sony further into the red or less in the red? If its put Sony less in the red, the entire basis of this article is completely wrong. Am I missing something here??

The sales numbers there reflect revenue, the Vita didn't exist as a point of revenue this time last year. That being said, if the Vita hardware, game development, and advertising are losing more money than they are brining in, it could easily account for losses in the face of more profitable hardware like the PSP, PS2, or even the PS3.

[LuchaShaq]

Which system do you think had the greatest number of quality games this generation?

The 360 due to XBLA. (also assuming we aren't counting PC since you said console)

Not sure what you're getting at though?

[Canis lupus]

The difference is, that money spent on marketing is doing a lot more for Nintendo than the $20 million Sony put into Uncharted 2 is doing for them.

They're just not in a position to do that, they've been criticized a lot for not marketing, even GT5. When the company fares well I'm sure they'll rebrand their established franchises on the market again.

[electroplankton]

I think if Revelations gets ported, it'll be to consoles. Vita's market can't properly support it, iOS/Android interfaces can't properly support it.

I didn't specify any console, though :P

[PSYGN]

It needs a good multiplayer shooter/racer.

[Loghorn150]

I was talking of being relying too much on 3rd parties. Nintendo doesnt rely on 3rd party, their own games sells the system.

I agree with this, as the huge 3rd party support along with huge 3rd party exclusives is what sold the PS1 & PS2 (as well as the DVD player in each PS2 system). Without those, those systems wouldn't be so successful, & without 3rd party support on PS3, then PS3 will be irrelevant, as 360 also has huge 3rd party support.

[PopcornMegaphone]

it won't because Sony sucks at marketing anything.

Marketing can't save a poorly positioned product with a crappy value proposition.

And you know why your friends haven't heard of Vita? It's a forgettable gaming machine that no one is talking about.

I know it sounds like I'm trolling, but the Vita is one of the most misguided gaming products I've ever seen. I mean, what was Sony thinking?

[Father_Brain]

I think if Revelations gets ported, it'll be to consoles. Vita's market can't properly support it, iOS/Android interfaces can't properly support it.

I expect a PSN/XBLA/(eShop?) port to be announced sometime next year, TBH.

[goonergaz]

Not to mention Sony benefited greatly with the PS3 from 1) right out of the gate massive support for the successor to The King, 2) continued support even though it sold terribly from 3rd parties thanks to the 360, 3) major advantage in Japanese 3rd parties, 4) support from Sony's great 2nd parties, and 5) a healthier bottom line that could absorb the hits required to turn things around.

Shall we ignore the fact 360 had a years head start with no competition and PS3 launched alongside the fastest selling console ever yet still managed to pretty much get within 2% of it's sales?

[lunchwithyuzo]

Uncharted 2 cost only $20m, while Nintendo may spend less on game development, they're probably spending a lot more on marketing.

The Wii _____ games didn't even need much marketing, Nintendo used mostly (cheap) targeted viral and media campaigns for them rather than traditional broadcast/print advertising. And $20m was only UC2's production budget, promotion could've doubled that given the heavy worldwide campaign it got.

[Green Slime]

I was talking of being relying too much on 3rd parties.

I know you were. The point is, Sony couldn't rely on third parties this past gen as much as they could previous gens, since 360 got almost all of the third party titles as well (and most of them were superior on 360 in some way or another). They had to rely on their first party IPs to compete against Microsoft's first party IPs, and mind you, this is with Sony having several advantages coming off of the PS2, and yet Sony bled money hard and fast, and the PS3 still ended up in last (wow, that rhymes).

I've argued this with my friends before, and I'll state it here: Sony has a LOT of talented folks working for them, but they're all wasted on projects that simply aren't enough to push the PlayStation brand forward. On top of that, Sony's strategy of "Squeeze the life out of this IP this gen, then abandon it" prevents them from building strong, long-lasting franchises. Sony needs to find some way to use that talent to produce franchises that can compete with the likes of Halo and Gears of War and such, so that they can stand on their own and not be forced to use third parties as a crutch to keep them going.

It's only going to get worse next gen, as multiplatform titles become more of a norm, with Nintendo now having capable hardware as well.

[Jaded Alyx]

Shall we ignore the fact 360 had a years head start with no competition and PS3 launched alongside the fastest selling console ever yet still managed to pretty much get within 2% of it's sales?

Japan though. Microsoft's Achilles Heel.

[ShockingAlberto]

I mean, let's face it. There is no magic bullet for the Vita.

It will take a herculean, though not impossible, effort to turn the ship around. Sony is uninterested in doing that.

I am not saying the Vita will never have compelling software or that Sony will never talk about it again, but I am saying what will come is unlikely to ever be enough.

[Loghorn150]

Shall we ignore the fact 360 had a years head start with no competition and PS3 launched alongside the fastest selling console ever yet still managed to pretty much get within 2% of it's sales?

That's only because that Sony managed to do a ton of price drops on the PS3 & that the PS3 was coming off of the very successful PS2.

The situation will be different for Sony next gen, as PS3 wasn't exactly hugely successful as the PS2 was.

[lunchwithyuzo]

I expect a PSN/XBLA/(eShop?) port to be announced sometime next year, TBH.

That seems the most likely. I doubt they could get away with retail after RE6, at least outside Japan.

Though really, no port wouldn't surprise me either.

[ElTopo]

Shall we ignore the fact 360 had a years head start with no competition and PS3 launched alongside the fastest selling console ever yet still managed to pretty much get within 2% of it's sales?

Great accomplishment, buy yourself something nice Sony. You also get a badge for oustanding achievement in 3rd place.

Look, I agree that people talk way too much shit about the PS3, pretending that it's far away from the 360 when it's not (in total sales). That said they're still last, they still lost a ton of money.

[goonergaz]

Japan though. Microsoft's Achilles Heel.

lol, understatement!

[timetokill]

finally, people are coming around to the idea that Vita never should have happened.

[PopcornMegaphone]

I mean, let's face it. There is no magic bullet for the Vita. It will take a herculean, though not impossible, effort to turn the ship around. Sony is uninterested in doing that. I am not saying the Vita will never have compelling software or that Sony will never talk about it again, but I am saying what will come is unlikely to ever be enough.

I think Sony has already tactfully turned their back on Vita. E3 was very telling. They spent the vast majority of their time on a console near the end of its life and not their brand new handheld.

[Canis lupus]

I know you were. The point is, Sony couldn't rely on third parties this past gen as much as they could previous gens, since 360 got almost all of the third party titles as well (and most of them were superior on 360 in some way or another). They had to rely on their first party IPs to compete against Microsoft's first party IPs, and mind you, this is with Sony having several advantages coming off of the PS2, and yet Sony bled money hard and fast, and the PS3 still ended up in last (wow, that rhymes). I've argued this with my friends before, and I'll state it here: Sony has a LOT of talented folks working for them, but they're all wasted on projects that simply aren't enough to push the PlayStation brand forward. On top of that, Sony's strategy of "Squeeze the life out of this IP this gen, then abandon it" prevents them from building strong, long-lasting franchises. Sony needs to find some way to use that talent to produce franchises that can compete with the likes of Halo and Gears of War and such, so that they can stand on their own and not be forced to use third parties as a crutch to keep them going. It's only going to get worse next gen, as multiplatform titles become more of a norm, with Nintendo now having capable hardware as well.

I agree with you until the last paragraph, I believe Kaz will turn things around. He is a visionary man and probably thought about all the things we're arguing now.

[commish]

finally, people are coming around to the idea that Vita never should have happened.

I think a lot of us said that as soon as it was announced. Great looking hardware, totally out of touch with the 2012 portable market.

I agree with you until the last paragraph, I believe Kaz will turn things around. He is a visionary man and probably thought about all the things we're arguing now.

But how? How do you turn it around? I think they need some uber exclusives, like, FF-level exclusives. Not another Uncharted or a PS3 port.