[Gunloc]

Oh my goodness, swimwear and hot springs done in the FE Radiance series art style? That would be heavenly.

*swoons*

Make it happen IS.

[_Keiichi_]

oh shit do you want me to post all of the fire emblem maids? lol I'll give you rd that you like so much

Bared legs are stupid, but for the rest is a totally normal outfit. (also, she's not a maid)

And i don't like RD, try with PoR or FEVII!

Also, as impractical it would be, at least it doesn't look fucking stupid. What kind of dress is this?

[StreetsAhead]

Bared legs are stupid, but for the rest is a totally normal outfit. (also, she's not a maid) And i don't like RD, try with PoD or FEVII! Also, as impractical it would be, at least it doesn't look fucking stupid. What kind of dress is this?

Except for the two point bunch cape. You'd be asking to get tangled up with a sword.

Also, Liz is wearing a hoop skirt with a split up to her waist.

[Somnid]

Bared legs are stupid, but for the rest is a totally normal outfit. (also, she's not a maid) Also, as impractical it would be, at least it doesn't look fucking stupid. What kind of dress is this?

Probably a lot better at deflecting weapons.

Also:

[Laughing Banana]

It seems like people are already forgetting that female FE characters of the previous FE games just love to wear extremely short mini-skirts to battlefield, especially those lovely Pegasus Knights.

Hell, Lyn did not even seem to wear anything underneath her sexy extremely high-cut long-leg showing Cheongsam-like costume.

Although yes, this new game seems like upping the ante, fanservice has always been a part of Fire Emblem, as is ridiculous impractical battle attire.

[_Keiichi_]

Except for the two point bunch cape. You'd be asking to get tangled up with a sword.

She's a manly a mage!

Also, Liz is wearing a hoop skirt with a split up to her waist.

Ah, i'll admit i didn't know that. I take it back.

[nmanma]

One thing I loved about the localized gba fire emblems and the gamecube one was the character interactions. So having more of them and in unusual settings is wonderful for me, my own DLC resistance aside.

But having interactions in a beach without wearing swimsuits would be weird. An removing the beach interactions because of that would be sad. I love those characters (or will love them in the case of the new ones), I want to see more of them in a different setting

And it's not like they are scandalous swimsuits either, if it were something of code geass caliber, then yeah, but so far they look pretty tame (I don't want to get spoilered on the story, so I only watched what NeonZ posted as post #69, feel free to correct me if I'm wrong though :P)

maid.jpeg

I don't think maid outfits are fanservicey by itself, shouldn't it be more sexualized to be fanservice? She's showing less skin than any PoR/RD girl. Assuming we are talking about sexual fanservice of course. If we are talking about quirky/ridiculous, well, it's a matter of opinions, I do like quirky stuff, and I respect that you don't, at least in these particular examples, or that you find it ridiculous instead of quirky.

Keychain sword? Adorable! I'm gonna main her and the lollipop guy

[jgmo870]

Mariabelle is a spoiled brat. Gaina likes sweets. Their outfits make sense too, by that logic.

I don't know. The designs from past games made logical sense and the characters always looked dignified. Doesn't seem to be the case with Awakening. Looks more like pandering.

[Boney]

try with PoR

a furry! fire emblem ruined forever omg

[Somnid]

The main character art is fine. The DLC art gets pandering and awful.

Roy's cool though.

[Femmeworth]

I don't think maid outfits are fanservicey by itself, shouldn't it be more sexualized to be fanservice? She's showing less skin than any PoR/RD girl. Assuming we are talking about sexual fanservice of course. If we are talking about quirky/ridiculous, well, it's a matter of opinions, I do like quirky stuff, and I respect that you don't, at least in these particular examples, or that you find it ridiculous instead of quirky. Keychain sword? Adorable! I'm gonna main her and the lollipop guy

Don't watch much anime? Maid outfits are definitely fanservice.

[nmanma]

Don't watch much anime? Maid outfits are definitely fanservice.

By themselves? In most animes where they are used as fanservice (a lot of course) they do it with a lot of cleavage, with really short skirts.

Having a maid covered from toe to neck wouldn't be really fanservicey, would it?

[Cosmo Clock 21]

a furry! fire emblem ruined forever omg

I recall this being an actual complaint back when Laguz were first revealed.

[Ken]

Or maids.

Why does that look proportionally off. She looks like a midget.

[Femmeworth]

By themselves? In most animes where they are used as fanservice (a lot of course) they do it with a lot of cleavage, with really short skirts. Having a maid covered from toe to neck wouldn't be really fanservicey, would it?

Maid outfits are highly fetishized in general, it's not just a matter of how much skin is showing.

[Boney]

I recall this being an actual complaint back when Laguz were first revealed.

well actually I hate them as well because of the stupid racism plotline and how they play mechanically teehee

didn't do anything to fire emblem though

[_Keiichi_]

By themselves? In most animes where they are used as fanservice (a lot of course) they do it with a lot of cleavage, with really short skirts. Having a maid covered from toe to neck wouldn't be really fanservicey, would it?

It depends on whatever the maid looks like this



or like this

[Diablos54]

Bitching about DLC? The fuck GAF? Don't like it, don't buy it, simple. And don't give me none of this 'It's gonna ruin FE!!' bullshit either. It's alternative costumes for god sakes...

[Seda]

I don't care for swimsuit stuff at all, but it doesn't bother me in the slightest that it's included.

[nmanma]

I love these threads, I always find new things to watch

It depends on whatever the maid looks like this classymaid.jpg oddmaid_and_secondbesthyouka.jpg

The first one looks classy, the last one looks sexualized. The middle one is an odd case. I feel if the last one weren't at her side she would look classier. Like that typical picture of a cat that looks menacing if it's under a picture of a haunted house, but looks cuddly if it's under a picture of a happy place.

Oh! On closer inspection, the middle one has a Powergirl boob window. But no boobs. I don't know what to think.

I guess Femmeworth would say they are all sexualized by virtue of being dressed as maids, and I kind of see his/her point, but I can't feel that for the first one, doesn't invite lewd thoughts. Of course, if one were to try lewd thoughts would come, but that applies to anything really

Maid outfits are highly fetishized in general, it's not just a matter of how much skin is showing.

I kind of see your point, there are outfits that are fetishized, like teacher / nurse / nun / policeman / policewoman / maid, but I think they aren't enough by themselves to make a sexual context, and act more like intensifiers of already established contexts. People usually treat nurses and policemen/women with respect, even if the outfit (on a conceptual level) is sexualized, and I don't think they subconsciously want to bone them either. But changing the context (a porn movie, an anime with maids showing a lot of skin, bedroom with the special other, watching baywatch with your friends of the same sex) is what allows the fetish to manifest.

If there is no sexual context, I think the fetish can't create one. Like the Chilean movie "La Nana", or that topless girl on one of the later Saw movies, or that classy maid the other guy posted, or being hospitalized, or being arrested.

btw I'm off to sleep, I'll try to post before going to work, love these conversations

[Javier]

Fire Emblem is the series that has gotten away with incest (not vague, but actual canonical plot points involving an incestual pairing), gay characters, mentions of boobs, implied rape (and even jokes about it), miniskirt jokes, guys that look like girls, furries, and who knows what else.

Compared to all that, this game is pretty much par for the course.

[HK-47]

Fire Emblem is the series that has gotten away with incest (not vague, but actual canonical plot points involving an incestual pairing), gay characters, mentions of boobs, implied rape (and even jokes about it), miniskirt jokes, guys that look like girls, furries, and who knows what else. Compared to all that, this game is pretty much par for the course.

All of this depends on context. If its not shameless pandering and there for other more interesting reasons, its not the same.

[StreetsAhead]

All of this depends on context. If its not shameless pandering and there for other more interesting reasons, its not the same.

How do you know the bikinis aren't necessary to the plot of the DLC?

[Socreges]

No one's arguing that FE games have gone from 0 to 60, or that they didn't have some shameless leg exposure in their art, or some possible furry-pandering. But if you can't see how the art is being dragged even further down into anime hell (I can't articulate this very well since I'm not familiar with anime and its different communities), then you're just willfully blind.

The latent pedophilia is a new addition to the series, isn't it? And the incest, IIRC, has only been explicit in FE4 (1996, Japan) and otherwise is just hinted at very rarely in support conversations (eg, Priscilla being promised to Raven). Thankfully, I either haven't encountered it or have just been blissfully unaware.

FE developers have always been a bit sick in the head. No one's saying otherwise, I don't think.

Also the Laguz DO suck and DO kind of ruin Fire Emblem for me. I remove them from the game as much as possible (despite advantages) and hate missions where they're an important and necessary feature. Through two games I haven't grown to like them, and never will.

[StreetsAhead]

But if you can't see how the art is being dragged even further down into anime hell (I can't articulate this very well since I'm not familiar with anime and its different communities), then you're just willfully blind.

As someone who has had largely unfortunate exposure to modern Japanese cartoon styles I will say that that is largely slippery slope nonsense. Compare Family Guy to the Simpsons. Both are American and both bare only passing similarity to each other. The same with "anime" (as if it were a single entity anyway) and FE:A's art, to a large extent.

The latent pedophilia is a new addition to the series, isn't it?

1. Cultural relativism, how does it work?
2. There's no actual pedophilia in the game.

[Socreges]

As someone who has had largely unfortunate exposure to modern Japanese cartoon styles I will say that that is largely slippery slope nonsense. Compare Family Guy to the Simpsons. Both are American and both bare only passing similarity to each other. The same with "anime" (as if it were a single entity anyway) and FE:A's art, to a large extent.

Do you know what a slippery slope fallacy is? I'm not saying it will get worse. I'm looking at the art of the new FE game and saying it is worse.

1. Cultural relativism, how does it work? 2. There's no actual pedophilia in the game.

1. You'll have to explain what this means. Should I be sensitive to those that enjoy pedophilia because of some horribly conceived moral relativism?
2. Are relationships not allowed with the child-like character that's supposed to be thousands of years old? If not, I happily stand corrected. If yes, then I stand by what I said.

[Femmeworth]

1. Cultural relativism, how does it work? 2. There's no actual pedophilia in the game.

What. It doesn't work.

[Socreges]

What. It doesn't work.

I'm willing to hear him out on this. But seeing as how he's riddled this page with false equivalencies, I'm not hopeful.

I liked the 'bikini as plot device' post, though. Some of the more creative defensiveness I've seen.

[StreetsAhead]

Do you know what a slippery slope fallacy is? I'm not saying it will get worse. I'm looking at the art of the new FE game and saying it is worse.

Point taken. If you don't like the art, that's fine. That doesn't mean it's more 'anime' because you don't like it, though.

1. You'll have to explain what this means. Should I be sensitive to those that enjoy pedophilia because of some horribly conceived moral relativism? 2. Are relationships not allowed with the child-like character that's supposed to be thousands of years old? If not, I happily stand corrected. If yes, then I stand by what I said.

1. Japan has much softer laws around the age of consent than America, if I recall correctly, and a fairly strong culture of sexualizing school aged children (especially young women) to an extent.
2. Marriages are allowed with a child-like character who is several thousand years old. She is a dragon. It is not pedophilia.

I liked the 'bikini as plot device' post, though. Some of the more creative defensiveness I've seen.

Clearly that was sarcasm. I'm just enjoying everyone have a meltdown because they feel wronged over the new art-style/DLC.

[NeonZ]

2. Are relationships not allowed with the child-like character that's supposed to be thousands of years old? If not, I happily stand corrected. If yes, then I stand by what I said.

"Relationships" are allowed with her in the sense that you can get an S ranking support, but, really, they don't show anything on screen, not even a kiss. Her child also comes from the future, she's not born in the present. You could pair up Nino, a 14 years old who acts like a little kid, and Jaffar, an assassin, in FE7, and their final conversation involved love declarations. That's not very different from what goes on in FE13.

[KeasbyKnight]

It isn't more the artstyle that bothers me, but the actual character designs. At least the male characters don't have eyes covering 40% of their faces compared to past instalments. Still, some of the designs are obvious pandering and it's a shame more and more Japanese games are becoming like this, especially when most of my favourite series are Japanese.

Still though, it's the fans of this crap that also annoy me. People gushing over the new "moekawaiiwaifu" Zelda in Skyward Sword were just sad, especially when Nintendo probably never intended it to happen, and when you see people sexualizing Chihiro from Spirited Away or Sheeta from Castle in the Sky, when all Miyazaki wanted to create was a story about a young girl going on a journey.
It's like no anime female is safe from these guys, and it's these guys who Nintendo are now pandering. I mean, take some of the new DLC characters from past instalments.

From this standard Fire Emblem girl who looks like she can actaully fight-


To dopey eyed, "I look surprised for absolutely no reason other than making creeps feel like they need to "protect me"" -

Ugh.

EDIT: People are defending the Nono shit? Really?... god.

[Socreges]

Point taken. If you don't like the art, that's fine. That doesn't mean it's more 'anime' because you don't like it, though.

I didn't say "more anime" - I said "further dragged into anime hell". Just trying to draw attention to how the designs are becoming more ridiculous and even further removed from context.

1. Japan has much softer laws around the age of consent than America, if I recall correctly, and a fairly strong culture of sexualizing school aged children (especially young women) to an extent. 2. Marriages are allowed with a child-like character who is several thousand years old. She is a dragon. It is not pedophilia.

1. One man's pedophilia is another man's fetish? Alright.
2. You must know how ridiculous this sounds. It isn't pedophilia within the FE universe, no, because they can put some bizarre loophole on her (she's actually very old!) to make it acceptable. But they've clearly designed her to appeal to those that fantasize about child-like* females. This is like saying that the rape of Peach wasn't rape because in the Mushroom Kingdom rape is a legal practice called "stooling" and is mandatory for all toads.

*or children, straight up

Clearly that was sarcasm. I'm just enjoying everyone have a meltdown because they feel wronged over the new art-style/DLC.

Meltdown? People are allowed to voice their criticisms. I didn't realize you'd been employed to rebuff each one suffered. :P

NeonZ, the fact that her child comes from the future (weird) does make it sound better. The relationship/marriage is still pervish, even if it isn't consummated.

Anyway, I've said enough. Fun debate honestly. Will debate again in 3 months.

[StreetsAhead]

From this standard Fire Emblem girl who looks like she can actaully fight- To dopey eyed, "I look surprised for absolutely no reason other than making creeps feel like they need to "protect me"" - Ugh.

This I do have a problem with; although this is my first FE, redesigning the (usually) female characters to look like that, or Micah's redesign, is truly a shame. It's one thing to design a new character that looks like that and something else to redesign them to look like that.

[Laughing Banana]

Well, for whatever its worth, I think Awakening owe a massive amount of its Japan sales due to the new art style. So on the virtue of keeping the franchise alive and bigger possibility of English version due to its success, I don't really mind the direction this game has taken in terms of art style.

Although yes, I do prefer the old style, but the new style is not without its charm, I think.

I prefer the old Lyn though........

[Prax]

Well, it's still Fire Emblem, and the mechanics should be sound.
And I'm interested in harder maps. And possibly additional characters and classes. And extra MEANINGFUL conversations/story development.

But MAN do I hate pandering. >____<
I REALLY hope they don't spend extra time on the next FE trying to pander even more, including making more pandering character designs. Keep it classy up front and then for all the pandering otaku-grabbing stuff, shove it all into DLC so I never have to see it.

[StreetsAhead]

After (finally) watching the trailer, I have to say this DLC looks quite interesting. The fact that beyond one character they never focus on the in-game "bikini"/"maid" shots is promising, too. 200 new support conversations & new music are most welcome.
The "Future" DLC seems especially interesting.

[Ken]

Well, for whatever its worth, I think Awakening owe a massive amount of its Japan sales due to the new art style. So on the virtue of keeping the franchise alive and bigger possibility of English version due to its success, I don't really mind the direction this game has taken in terms of art style. Although yes, I do prefer the old style, but the new style is not without its charm, I think. I prefer the old Lyn though........ [IMG]http://s8.postimage.org/hwdeken39/fire_emblem_conceptart_skej_M.jpg[IMG] [IMG]http://s8.postimage.org/pnu4iyr8l/DLCLyn.jpg[/MG]

I have never played or followed Fire Emblem before. My only exposure to FE before this was Roy and Marth in Smash Bros.

I prefer the new one.

[StayDead]

She's a Princess. She wins. Mariabelle is a spoiled brat. Gaina likes sweets. Their outfits make sense too, by that logic.

Mariabelle isn't a spoiled brat! You take that back! She's just the daughter of a rich family so she's privileged. Her and Donny are the perfect couple and she's awesome.

I still can't understand the problems with the art style, if you were to actually play the game (most of you) you'd realise it's actually rather beautiful in game.

[CSX]

To be fair about the DLC characters, they were drawn by different guest artists. Intelligent Systems probably went up to them, showed them the original portraits, and said "Give us your interpretation".

Then again, i guess IS were the ones that chose these artists. IIRC, someone mentioned that one of the artists draws hentai. I do know that Micaiah's artist was the same one who did all the character design for Fate Extra. Knowing that made Micaiah's new look less surprising

Still getting this game next year. Would have bought the character dlc if they were unique classes.

[Prax]

Mariabelle isn't a spoiled brat! You take that back! She's just the daughter of a rich family so she's privileged. Her and Donny are the perfect couple and she's awesome. I still can't understand the problems with the art style, if you were to actually play the game (most of you) you'd realise it's actually rather beautiful in game.

It's just that the art style is very "slick/edgy" and.. I don't know how to really put it, but somewhat artificial and ADHD, like.. "chrome-tech-neo" (AND Krom's name reflects it~!). I hope you understand the sentiment I'm getting at. It just doesn't feel very traditional and medieval-fantasy. Instead, it feels like techno-fantasy, and that's not what the classic Fire Emblem feel is. (And Liz's design is a mess. I keep thinking she threw the outfit together because she's pretending to be a commoner and this is how she imagines peasants dress like.)

It's a draw for new fans and people that are more into the flashy stuff, but it's kind of offputting for someone like me and makes me think of this game as more of a joke entry instead of a serious one. A "gaiden", if you will, just to test out a bunch of mechanics and styles and see what sticks.

[Gunloc]

To be fair about the DLC characters, they were drawn by different guest artists. Intelligent Systems probably went up to them, showed them the original portraits, and said "Give us your interpretation".

I'm pretty sure they instead of a picture of Ike, they showed the artist some sort of jaded, teen cyborg.

[CSX]

I'm pretty sure they instead of a picture of Ike, they showed the artist some sort of jaded, teen cyborg.

Did a quick google, artist was the character designer for the FE with Roy.

Maybe he used his original portrait of Roy as a base?

[Chunky]

oh shit do you want me to post all of the fire emblem maids? lol I'll give you rd that you like so much

CRITICAL HIT!

[Chunky]

a furry! fire emblem ruined forever omg

No, see, b-b-because with the old Fire Emblems and, uhm, the uhhhh...
Yeah you win.

[NeonZ]

It's just that the art style is very "slick/edgy" and.. I don't know how to really put it, but somewhat artificial and ADHD, like.. "chrome-tech-neo" (AND Krom's name reflects it~!). I hope you understand the sentiment I'm getting at. It just doesn't feel very traditional and medieval-fantasy. Instead, it feels like techno-fantasy, and that's not what the classic Fire Emblem feel is. (And Liz's design is a mess. I keep thinking she threw the outfit together because she's pretending to be a commoner and this is how she imagines peasants dress like.) It's a draw for new fans and people that are more into the flashy stuff, but it's kind of offputting for someone like me and makes me think of this game as more of a joke entry instead of a serious one. A "gaiden", if you will, just to test out a bunch of mechanics and styles and see what sticks.

This game is supposed to take place 2000 years after Shadow Dragon, which was more traditional fantasy. I remember the developers saying at some point (Iwata Asks, maybe? I'm not sure...) that they wanted things to look different here due to that. One of the ideas they had early in development was even to make a futuristic FE. In the end, they stuck with the standard fantasy theme, but added more anachronic elements to the character designs.

Did a quick google, artist was the character designer for the FE with Roy. Maybe he used his original portrait of Roy as a base?

I think he just isn't a very good artist. His FE6 art had several obvious problems. He improved in FE7, but also resorted to mostly "standing" poses without any attempts at perspective or dynamic movements. Here, with FE13 Ike, he tried another "active" pose again, like in his Roy artwork, now adding a weird perspective on top of it, but it just failed.

[Gradivus]

This game is supposed to take place 2000 years after Shadow Dragon, which was more traditional fantasy. I remember the developers saying at some point (Iwata Asks, maybe? I'm not sure...) that they wanted things to look different here due to that. One of the ideas they had early in development was even to make a futuristic FE. In the end, they stuck with the standard fantasy theme, but added more anachronic elements to the character designs.

Yeah, I remember that. Besides most of the DLC artwork, I'm happy with the way the character designs were for FE :A(could have used some more older people within the army).

[Gaogaogao]

Any chance that all the DLC comes with the North American version lol?

on cart dlc, the next generation.

[Nocturnowl]

My word this thread, it's something all right.

To dopey eyed, "I look surprised for absolutely no reason other than making creeps feel like they need to "protect me"

Dare I say it looks like she's casting magic, and judging by the position of those eyebrows she looks more determined if anything, you know to strike down someone with magic.
Or maybe you're right! it's a fearful look of terror while she fumbles with her spellbook desperately yelling for help and I will come to her rescue because I can PROTECT HER!

I'm thinking one of these makes more sense than the other.

[Cosmo Clock 21]

My word this thread, it's something all right.

Is this what the atelier pedo thread is like? I got the fuck out of that after looking at the length of the first post.

[Nocturnowl]

Is this what the atelier pedo thread is like? I got the fuck out of that after looking at the length of the first post.

Ah but that thread was a juggernaut, this can't compare.

Still how offended people have gotten over these small FE additions is a bit much, I mean really? there may be visible cleavage and manly abs (because shockingly this series contains men as well) in some optional content, ABANDON SERIES! NINTENDO LOST THEIR MORALS!
Can't say the arrival of the Beach and Hot Springs cliches are anything to really celebrate but hey there might be some humorous character conversations to come out of it.