[shagg_187]

If you can make it for Tegra 3 it will work on Tegra 4.. comparing Tegra 4 to PS3 architecture is insane.

I agree with the fact that Tegra 3 games can be made for Tegra 4. What I'm stating is that providing/receiving devkits 3 months before OUYA's releases isn't that feasible and that at least 6 months would be more sufficient.

They should provide devs with Tegra 3 devkit and upgrade it for them once Tegra 4 systems are made.

It's a small hiccup but would ensure the system to be future-proof without seeing OUYA 2 or OUYA 3 every other year. This isn't a phone, and you cannot do that in gaming division even if your target audience is different. Why buy OUYA if I don't really need it today and can wait an extra year to get a better hardware? It'll only discourage people as future titles will not be compatible with their system.

[Dreamwriter]

I agree with the fact that Tegra 3 games can be made for Tegra 4. What I'm stating is that providing/receiving devkits 3 months before OUYA's releases isn't that feasible and that at least 6 months would be more sufficient. They should provide devs with Tegra 3 devkit and upgrade it for them once Tegra 4 systems are made. It's a small hiccup but would ensure the system to be future-proof without seeing OUYA 2 or OUYA 3 every other year. This isn't a phone, and you cannot do that in gaming division even if your target audience is different. Why buy OUYA if I don't really need it today and can wait an extra year to get a better hardware? It'll only discourage people as future titles will not be compatible with their system.

But, why would you need to replace it next year? If you are saying it's like the rest of the console industry, you have to take the whole thing :) XBox 360 was about as powerful as PC's from two years before its release. By two years after its release, PC games were clearly superior to the XBox 360 versions. But the XBox 360 didn't need replacing. This is the exact same situation. There's always going to be better hardware, but you have to release at some time. And it's never really good to go with the untested top of the top of the line.

[Stephen Colbert]

Those who want Tegra 4 need to email/post these points to the Ouya site.

1. Tegra 3s gpu is based on a 7 yr old architecture. Tegra 4s gpu will be the first time Nvidia brings its modern gpu architecture and unified shaders to the mobile space. Tegra 3 produces semi decent graphics at smartphone resolutions only when there are minimal resources dedicated to things like framerate, physics, AI, number of enemies and having wide open levels. Pare it up to 1080p resolutions and ideally four person multiplayer gaming and no I dont see how the Tegra 3 is good enough to pull it even okay 3d graphics without massively sacrificing things like physics, framerate, number of simultaneous enemies and friendlies and large rooms (instead of small cooridors) all of which hurts gameplay. Tegra 4 offers unified shaders and a far improved architecture. By all indications it would allow for significantly better gameplay (lots of enemies, open levels, solid physics, 1080p/60fps). Tegra 4 also uses the a15 CPU which is a vastly superior architecture to the a9 architecture used by the Tegra 3.

2. By launching with the Tegra 3, the Ouya team faces a real risk of someone releasing a Tegra 4 box mid 2013 and eating away at the Ouyas sales. It's a nobrainer for someone to do this given how much revenue the Ouya raised even with outdated hardware. The Ouya devs would then have to decide between letting this device eat away at their market, or releasing a Ouya 2 just a few months after Ouya 1 which is a surefire way to piss off your customers and scare off new ones.

3. As someone who forked down $130 for a device that's wont be out for another 8 months, I certainly wouldnt mind having to wait an extra three months to get an exponentially better device. They already have the money. They should make the best possible device they can with it, even if it takes a little bit longer. March 2013 is clearly listed as an estimated delivery date. Key word being estimated. Not a promise, not a guarantee, just an estimate.

4. The Tegra 4 soc goes into production end of 2012, several months before the Ouya launches. The Tegra 4 soc costs $21, same as the Tegra 3 soc costs.

5. OUYA is getting a 30% profit on each game sold from developers. The longer legs the Ouya has, the more money they stand to make in the long run.

6. There is no need to rush the Ouya. I would rather they wait and get more dev support than rushing it out the door and see incomplete software being rushed to be the "first one in OUYA". Any thing developed for Tegra 3 will run flawlessly on Tegra 4. A strong polished launch library would generate good word of mouth and give the console longer legs.

7. This isnt a retail device with a large marketing campaign, the ouyas market is clearly one that keeps up with tech. It's undeniable that more people will buy the Ouya next year if it features a modern soc with current architecture than a one yr outdated one built on a 7 yr old architecture.

8. Given the amount of press Ouya is getting, Nvidia should be eager to have this be a flagship Tegra 4 device to sell that SoC to more manufacturers. If not there are alternatives out already that blow the Tegra 3 out of the water like the SoC in the Vita or better yet the Exynos 5.

In summary, the Tegra 4 soc costs $21. Even if the Tegra 3s price drops to half that by the end of the year, the Ouya team would be well served in the long term to spend the extra $10 to go with Tegra 4. They could sell the Ouya for $120 after release, and it would still sell really well. It would also stay relevant a lot longer and thus have longer legs (continue to sell well into 2014).

If the only thing standing in the way of all of us getting a Tegra 4 box instead of a Tegra 3 box is an additional $10 per device so around $500k total, I can think of no better way to raise these funds than with another kick starter aimed at current and future Ouya backers.

The Ouya team posts their BOM for the current Ouya vs a Tegra 4 Ouya perhaps with faster or more ram and what it takes to make up the difference as well as how much it may delay the device. They put up the kick starter, if it doesn't get funded, they ship the Tegra 3 build and all the backers of this new kickstarter get a refund, if it gets funded, they ship the Tegra 4 build to all their backers. They also raise the preorder price. That way they let their backers decide what they want.

[Dreamwriter]

Who said anything about five years? But they sure as hell shouldn't obsolete it within an year. The fact is, if the Ouya doesn't feature Tegra 4, given how much interest and revenue its generating, you can bet your ass someone else will release a Tegra 4 gaming box by mid 2013. At that point, the Ouya team can either stay still and let someone else eat away at their sales, or they can release their own Ouya 2 six months after the Ouya came out. Neither is a good option for them. They already have the revenue and money to get started, they should now use it to release something that won't be outdated within a few months of launch. Given the 30% cut they get from software sales, it's in their best interests to do so.

But that supposed Tegra 4 box won't have the games already on Ouya. It won't have the developer deals, it'll have to make its own app store and OS from scratch, like Ouya already did. Is it possible that it'll have all that and be a full game console rather than just an Android-to-TV box, sure, but not as likely. And even if it happens, look at the existing console market - Wii STRONGLY beat out the vastly more powerful competition. Power isn't everything in the console market.

[Tobor]

Releasing a new model each year does not obsolete the old model. This thing is a smartphone in a box running Android. It's games are going to come from existing Android developers.

This new business model has already been thought through. Look at iOS, you design a game and make sure it runs on the newest model, and two generations back. It's a rolling three year cycle, a hybrid between PC and traditional consoles.

I guess my point is that by making the Ouya an Android box running off the shelf parts, they're in this cycle whether they like it or not. The phones and tablets will continue to get better every year, and the Android devs will need to make their games run on that hardware as well as whatever Ouya is selling.

[Mairu]

The Tegra 4 soc costs $21. Even if the Tegra 3s price drops to half that by the end of the year, I think the Ouya team would be well served in the long term to spend the extra $10 to go with Tegra 4. They could sell the Ouya for $110 after release, and it would still sell really well. It would also stay relevant a lot longer and thus have longer legs (continue to sell well into 2014). With the Tegra 3, the Ouya team faces a real risk of someone releasing a Tegra 4 box mid 2013 and eating away at the Ouyas sales. Remember, Ouya stands to get a 30% cut on any software sold on the Ouya. As someone who forked down $130 for a device that's wont be out for another 8 months, I certainly wouldnt mind having to wait an extra two months to get an exponentially better device

Why did you back it if you feel so strongly against them going with Tegra 3 instead of waiting for Tegra 4?

[Deus Ex Machina]

And even if it happens, look at the existing console market - Wii STRONGLY beat out the vastly more powerful competition. Power isn't everything in the console market.

Wii had the motion control gimmick going for at the time.. had nothing to do with power or games.

[Bboy AJ]

There's no need for you to obnoxiously bold half of your entire post. Your point is also ridiculous and typical GAF nonsense. Yes, power sells consoles...

[Stephen Colbert]

Why did you back it if you feel so strongly against them going with Tegra 3 instead of waiting for Tegra 4?

Because I like the idea behind the ouya and wanted to help them get it off the ground.

[Stephen Colbert]

The piss poor software sales on the wii show that power does matter.

Once you get past the .99 cent price point, the best selling games are consistently the best looking ones. They always have been. The gears, call of duties, halos, god of wars and uncharteds vastly outsell their more innovative but worse looking breatheren

The only real exception to this are some first party Nintendo titles that have the nintendo brand name, talent and nostalgia all working in their favor.

[Jasoneyu]

How are you so certain that the intergration of the tegra 4 will just delay the project for two months? They have to build a system starting now with all the design/system elements in place if they ever want to hit a reasonable target date. By waiting for a new chipset that isn't even mass produced today would delay them at least a year at best.

Power was never the objective of the ouya, it was always to provide a cheap console alternative to small indie developers etc. Simplying waiting for the next tegra 4 just because it will increase the longevity of a product would make sense if they are an established console on the market, but they are not.

And power simply isn't the end all be all of a console, its the software and the games that push sales.

Frankly you are making a huge amount of assumptions and presenting them as fact.

[Dreamwriter]

The piss poor software sales on the wii show that power does matter.

Quality games that were released on Wii sold really well. The problem was the Wii's architecture was wildly different from the competition, so third-parties didn't tend to release their games on Wii, and often when they did, it was crap shovelware. Ouya won't have that problem even with Tegra 4 games, because Tegra 4 still uses the same basics - pixel shaders with OpenGL ES2.0+.

[Oxn]

How do you back a project which they told you exactly what they would do, and then complain they arent doing what you want them to?

[Dreamwriter]

I can see that point - because it's still cool without Tegra 4. Being more powerful would be cool, and some of us really care about the system being popular and thus the discussions over what they could do to make it more popular for longer, but even if someone staunchly believes it'll fail as-is...it'll still be a damn cool thing for us gadget geeks, hackers, and gamers to have :)

[1-UP]

It's all about the power... not.

[Sid]

Those who want Tegra 4 need to email/post these points to the Ouya site. .

Man you post interesting points but don't you think tegra 3 would be enough for the kinds of games this console will be marketed to have?

[Stephen Colbert]

Man you post interesting points but don't you think tegra 3 would be enough for the kinds of games this console will be marketed to have?

I don't. Tegra 3 produces semi decent graphics at smartphone resolutions only when there are minimal resources dedicated to things like framerate, physics, AI, number of enemies or having wide open levels.. Pare it up to 1080p resolutions and ideally four person multiplayer gaming and no I dont see how the Tegra 3 is good enough to pull it even okay 3d graphics without massively sacrificing things like physics, number of simultaneous enemies and friendlies and large rooms. I don't want to be stuck with cooridor shooters and cooridor platformers.

There is a seven year difference between the gpu architecture in Tegra 3 vs Tegra 4. Tegra 4 offers unified shaders and the newest architecture. By all indications it would allow for significantly better gameplay (lots of enemies, open levels, solid physics at 60fps).

[border]

I doubt that Android games are really going to have the kinds of production values that would support Tegra 4's features. Yeah, you could make Gears of War......but you couldn't turn a profit on it in a world of F2P/99-cent games.

Most people want this for emulators and media streaming - no sense in switching to an untested new chip when the games that might need it don't even exist.

[GoofsterStud]

Man you post interesting points but don't you think tegra 3 would be enough for the kinds of games this console will be marketed to have?

Why limit yourself for something that will be the same price? Who would choice a GB over a GB color for the same price? It's only logical. This would help out all games.

[Stephen Colbert]

If they set out to create a media streaming and emulator box with some .99 cent ports of android games, sure the current architecture is fine. But it sounds like they are aiming for something more than that.

[Lonely1]

Well, if you missed the Kickstarter, it looks like they have a page up to order them on their site http://www.ouya.tv/buyouya/ $110

So, I ended paying up the same? (International user). Fuuuu. :(

[border]

If they set out to create a media streaming and emulator box with some .99 cent ports of android games, sure the current architecture is fine. But it sounds like they are aiming for something more than that.

Look at how nostalgia-heavy their pitch is ("Remember the good ol' days when you sat down and found out that our princess is in another castle?"). Look at how their first announced game is Final Fantasy III.

Look at the developers they have quotes from (all independents, nobody working with a huge budget).

Look how heavily they emphasize streaming capabilities -- Vevo, OnLive, Twitch, XBMC, etc.

I don't think anyone's expecting huge production values out of the game library. If it can run stuff like Flow, Trine, and LIMBO then they don't need much more power than that.

This is not really meant to be a platform delivering highly-polished big huge games. The people who backed it wanted something else, and there's no sense delaying or jeopardizing the product just because someday somebody might want to make a Halo/Call of Duty-type game for it.

[snap0212]

They just talked about Ouya on German TV. They even got the details right (Android, free demos for all games, stuff like that). I'm still not 1005 convinced but it sounds promising.

[rager]

If this will let me have full access on XBMC with 1080p 5.1, 7.1 playback then it is well worth the $100.00

[wildfire]

Imagine if this thing did have Tegra 4 http://www.theverge.com/2012/7/10/31...h-with-tegra-4 By the time OUYA comes out, the NVidia Tegra-4 should be out. Already underpowered compared to the XBOX and PS3, will the masses embrace cell phone games? If OUYA is supposed to get 30% profit on each game sold from developers, couldn’t they subsidize better hardware?

This is a strawman. Yes Tegra 4 is better than Tegra 3 but Tegra 4 is supposed to come out a month or 2 before Ouya launches. It's impossible for Ouya to launch with Tegra 4 when it is still in the final stages of development.

[1-UP]

I'm still not 1005 convinced...

Why?

[Stephen Colbert]

This myth that graphics don't improve gameplay needs to end. Good graphics are integral to good framerate, physics, interactivity of environment, number of enemies and friendlies and having wide open levels.

[Dicer]

This myth that graphics don't improve gameplay needs to end. Good graphics are integral to good framerate, physics, interactivity of environment, number of enemies and friendlies and having wide open levels.

Pacman plays fine...

[Stephen Colbert]

If you believe Pacman is gameplay perfection, you don't need this. You should be good with your game boy color from two decades ago.

[fritolay]

In summary, the Tegra 4 soc costs $21. Even if the Tegra 3s price drops to half that by the end of the year, the Ouya team would be well served in the long term to spend the extra $10 to go with Tegra 4. They could sell the Ouya for $120 after release, and it would still sell really well. It would also stay relevant a lot longer and thus have longer legs (continue to sell well into 2014). [/b]

What if the Ouya team is counting on Tegra 3 price drops in their current pricing model.

[mAcOdIn]

What if the Ouya team is counting on Tegra 3 price drops in their current pricing model.

Also, I think there's more variables than that, what if Nvidia's late, lets not act like that's not happened before. Many times. What if it launches just in time but the supply's constrained enough that the Ouya guys have trouble getting chips due to the bigger boys like HTC and Asus getting first dibs?

I mean, yeah, I'd rather have something better in there too but I think it's important to not think that they haven't mulled the idea already even before the first "why not the Tegra 4" posts started hitting the net and don't have their reasons for sticking with their plan.

That said, as a consumer, for a few bucks bucks more I'd definitely rather have the Tegra 4 or a slight delay.

[GrayFoxPL]

Wow, this is quite a phenomenon. I wouldn't bet it will work out, but if it did it could be some kind of revolution.

[ProtomanNeo]

I'm interested. I do however wonder what is the best case scenario for a project such as this?

[GoofsterStud]

I'm interested. I do however wonder what is the best case scenario for a project such as this?

For me.

Roku replacement with HD2D games. :-)

[Orayn]

If you believe Pacman is gameplay perfection, you don't need this. You should be good with your game boy color from two decades ago.

Can you make your point with a little less melodrama?

[snap0212]

Why?

I meant to write 100%. :) I'd just like to see it running, hear impressions, see what it's capable of before I get excited, that's all.

[Dynamite Shikoku]

This myth that graphics don't improve gameplay needs to end. Good graphics are integral to good framerate, physics, interactivity of environment, number of enemies and friendlies and having wide open levels.

How are good graphics integral to physics?

[Dicer]

If you believe Pacman is gameplay perfection, you don't need this. You should be good with your game boy color from two decades ago.

It is, and so are other games through each generation, we don't need a crazy ass system for a sublime game play experience...

gfx whores are the worst :/

[Lonely1]

While is true that graphics aren't everything. It isn't good for a stationary gaming device to be significantly weaker than mid-end phones, which will be the case by mid 2013 if they stick with Tegra 3. Specially for a device that is targeting the "tech savy" segment.

[Deus Ex Machina]

It is, and so are other games through each generation, we don't need a crazy ass system for a sublime game play experience... gfx whores are the worst :/

People are just pointing out that there are already other devices that do what the Ouya does. And most people probably own those devices already.

[Deus Ex Machina]

These little cellphone chips are getting badass

Samsung today took the mobile world by storm by introducing its new Exynos 5 Dual SoC (System-on-Chip) manufactured on a 32nm High K/Metal Gate process. It features the world's first ARM Cortex A15 dual-core processor clocked at 1.7GHz and is capable of driving WQXGA (2560x1600) displays, paving the way for a new generation of tablets that trump the much hyped Retina display on Apple's third gen iPad device.

Maximum PC | Samsung Details 'Exynos 5 Dual' Chip with Better than Retina Display Muscle

[Azure Dream]

So, I ended paying up the same? (International user). Fuuuu. :(

But people who order from the site won't get the "Founder" tag on their name, I think.

[Lonely1]

These little cellphone chips are getting badass Maximum PC | Samsung Details 'Exynos 5 Dual' Chip with Better than Retina Display Muscle

Hey, you should make a new thread about it! Exynos in the SIII is already faster than Tegra III, I wonder how fast is this.

[Stephen Colbert]

These little cellphone chips are getting badass Maximum PC | Samsung Details 'Exynos 5 Dual' Chip with Better than Retina Display Muscle

Not bad. If not Tegra 4, something like this SOC would be a huge leap beyond the Tegra 3, and it's already out

[wildfire]

Samsung doesn't have the same pedigree as Nvidia at supporting developers. Nvidia doesn't just throw money at you to support their platform but engineers as well. Samsung doesn't have the mentality for that.

[Lonely1]

Not bad. If not Tegra 4, something like this SOC would be a huge leap beyond the Tegra 3, and it's already out

There's a good chance this will be competitive with Tegra 4.

[Stephen Colbert]

There's a good chance this will be competitive with Tegra 4.

No kidding. Reading up on the specs, it sounds like it could be slightly more powerful than the Tegra 4 on the gpu front, though worse on the CPU front.

[Deus Ex Machina]

Samsung doesn't have the same pedigree as Nvidia at supporting developers. Nvidia doesn't just throw money at you to support their platform but engineers as well. Samsung doesn't have the mentality for that.

Samsung makes some of the best SOC in the business. Qualcom is very close but always seems to get out done by a small margin. Nvidia gets a lot of hype but I'm not impressed with the Tegra series.

[Stephen Colbert]

Samsung makes some of the best SOC in the business. Qualcom is very close but always seems to get out done by a small margin. Nvidia gets a lot of hype but I'm not impressed with the Tegra series.

Yeah, Tegra has been a huge disappointment so far. Nvidia hasn't been trying, instead opting to base their gpu on an architecture that is 7 generations outdated. Their upcoming Tegra 4 is the first one with their new/current architecture.

[Utako]

These little cellphone chips are getting badass Maximum PC | Samsung Details 'Exynos 5 Dual' Chip with Better than Retina Display Muscle

JEEEEEEBUS, that is 50% the clockspeed of my tiny god gaming PC. While other factors contribute to processing capability, power like this in a portable form factor wins the usefulness contest.