[Bulbo Urethral Baggins]

Except for the fact that he is 13.

When I was 13, I had my own lawn cutting business-- until I cut off half my foot.

[arbok26]

so just get a permit then?

[Kad5]

Private health inspectors.

If the inspector doesn't do a good job, then their reputation suffers and both restaurant goers and restaurants will be dissuaded from hiring them/trusting them.
A really good inspector would probably offer some sort of insurance benefit to the consumer that if they got sick the inspector would pay damages.

People determine what level of health-safety they require, and competitive market means more inspectors who constantly look for the important things that actually affect food safety, not report writing.

I think that's a suitable alternative to government permits for opening food stands.


http://www.ul.com/global/eng/pages/o...od/foodsafety/

[yankeeforever2]

When I was 13, I had my own lawn cutting business-- until I cut off half my foot.

And now you know why OSHA laws exist

[adamsappel]

I know when I want food prepared street-side from a cart, I want that cart operated by a 13-year-old!

Private health inspectors. If the inspector doesn't do a good job, then their reputation suffers and both restaurant goers and restaurants will be dissuaded from hiring them/trusting them. A really good inspector would probably offer some sort of insurance benefit to the consumer that if they got sick the inspector would pay damages. People determine what level of health-safety they require, and competitive market means more inspectors who constantly look for the important things that actually affect food safety, not report writing. I think that's a suitable alternative to government permits for opening food stands.

Why wouldn't it go the other way, with rubber-stamp inspectors who are essentially employees of the business?

[The Technomancer]

Private health inspectors. If the inspector doesn't do a good job, then their reputation suffers and both restaurant goers and restaurants will be dissuaded from hiring them/trusting them. A really good inspector would probably offer some sort of insurance benefit to the consumer that if they got sick the inspector would pay damages. People determine what level of health-safety they require, and competitive market means more inspectors who constantly look for the important things that actually affect food safety, not report writing. I think that's a suitable alternative to government permits for opening food stands.

This is all relies on a negative feedback system, which seems to disregard that there has to be an event to cause the negative feedback in the first place. The inspector and the restaurant only develop a bad reputation after people get sick.

Also what makes you think this kid could have afforded a reputable inspector to clear his operation if he couldn't afford a permit?

[Kad5]

This is all relies on a negative feedback system, which seems to disregard that there has to be an event to cause the negative feedback in the first place. The inspector and the restaurant only develop a bad reputation after people get sick.

It's not like there aren't already standards that people are familiar with though.

[Slo]

Let's not pretend that this kid was going to support his two disabled parents and pay the mortgage by selling Oscar Meyers off of a card table.

[Zaphod]

The hot dog stand was within the city's downtown commercial zone, where food carts not connected to restaurants are banned. City of Holland Assistant Manager Greg Robinson said the rule was set up to protect restaurants in the area -- it would be unfair for carts, who don't have to pay for property, to compete with restaurants who do.

I don't have a problem with him needing a permit but this is crap. What if one restaurant has a really good deal on it's lease? Is that unfair to the competition?

[The Technomancer]

It's not like there aren't already standards that people are familiar with though.

I don't understand how that relates to my point. The inspector and the restaurant still have to develop a bad reputation from letting people get ill for these free-marker mechanisms to work. Its reactive, not proactive.

[Kad5]

I don't understand how that relates to my point. The inspector and the restaurant still have to develop a bad reputation from letting people get ill for these free-marker mechanisms to work.

Sure but does this not happen anyway? In the current system the inspector probably gets paid around the same amount regardless of the job he is doing in terms of quality yes?

[Slo]

I don't have a problem with him needing a permit but this is crap. What if one restaurant has a really good deal on it's lease? Is that unfair to the competition?

Look at it from the other angle too. You pay $4000/month rent to open a restaurant every day when you open and there are two gyro carts and a taco cart in front of your building every day poaching your customers.

[The Technomancer]

Sure but does this not happen anyway? In the current system the inspector probably gets paid around the same amount regardless of the job he is doing in terms of quality yes?

Well no, I doubt that bad health inspectors never get fired. The government does fire people for bad performance. But in your proposed free-market system people as a whole have to recognize that an inspector isn't very good. You put a lot more faith in reputation and its ability to infiltrate the zeitgeist than I do.

[Kusagari]

You don't know how much they can make with these things, so maybe.

It's not like the kid could run it all day. He has school starting soon, doesn't he?

[Hehateme]

What's the kid gonna do now? :/

[The Technomancer]

Also if this kid couldn't afford a permit I'm not sure how he would have afforded a reputable inspector.

[Zaphod]

Look at it from the other angle too. You pay $4000/month rent to open a restaurant every day when you open and there are two gyro carts and a taco cart in front of your building every day poaching your customers.

How's that different than a guy leasing the space next to you for $1000 dollars? I could see the rather crowded sidewalk in front of my restaurant being an issue with three carts crowding the entrance but to ban all carts completely seem a bit anti business.

[kottila]

Well no, I doubt that bad health inspectors never get fired. The government does fire people for bad performance. But in your proposed free-market system people as a whole have to recognize that an inspector isn't very good. You put a lot more faith in reputation and its ability to infiltrate the zeitgeist than I do.

Imagine how much research you would have to do every day in a completely free marker world

[Kad5]

Imagine how much research you would have to do every day in a completely free marker world

The internet has plenty of sites that do ratings for the quality of restaurants. I'm confident this isn't one of those things in this day and age that the government HAS to inherently get involved with. Yelp.com is an example.

[Slo]

How's that different than a guy leasing the space next to you for $1000 dollars? I could see the rather crowded sidewalk in front of my restaurant being an issue with three carts crowding the entrance but to ban all carts completely seem a bit anti business.

Ridiculous example is ridiculous. If the guy next to you only paid $1k to your $4k, you got screwed. That's not what we're talking about here. You dodged the point, intentionally I suspect. Cities have an interest in protecting businesses that pay property tax, draw tourists, and employ the citizens of the city. That's why they zone where they do and don't let people sell frozen pizzas out of the back of a Honda Civic. The one place the absolutely don't want frozen pizzas sold is in the parking lot of the local pizzeria.

I've got no problem with food carts, but I don't have a problem with zoning laws either.

[Bloodbeard]

Downtown Holland is too quaint for something as low-brow as a hot dog stand.

[Zaphod]

Ridiculous example is ridiculous. If the guy next to you only paid $1k to your $4k, you got screwed. That's not what we're talking about here. You dodged the point, intentionally I suspect. Cities have an interest in protecting businesses that pay property tax, draw tourists, and employ the citizens of the city. That's why they zone where they do and don't let people sell frozen pizzas out of the back of a Honda Civic. The one place the absolutely don't want frozen pizzas sold is in the parking lot of the local pizzeria. I've got no problem with food carts, but I don't have a problem with zoning laws either.

This has to be one of the weirdest responses to one of my posts I've ever seen. You mentioned that the business owner might be upset at someone having an unfair advantage and I was supposed to parse out that the cities interest in taxes and tourism come into play? All this while I was apparently attempting to be misleading by ignoring the implied conceit.

Either way I agree with the last point so lets just all be friends.

[Bulbo Urethral Baggins]

And now you know why OSHA laws exist

No. Why? Cause of my foot?
I just had to bite down hard on a stick while they sewed it up. Wasn't so bad.

[Freshmaker]

The internet has plenty of sites that do ratings for the quality of restaurants. I'm confident this isn't one of those things in this day and age that the government HAS to inherently get involved with. Yelp.com is an example.

Assuming they aren't punishing zeitgeist via astroturfing.

[The Faceless Master]

people can collude to ruin the reputations of some private inspectors and restaurants and boost others.

a disgruntled employee can destroy the business (and inspector rep) by contaminating something!

[nateeasy]

So why is he homeless? Was he living in the hot dog stand?

[jaxword]

What a bunch of wieners.

BOO.

[speculawyer]

Nathan Duszynski, 13, set up a hot dong stand to help his disabled parents pay bills.

Risky Business.

[Sophia]

Something about this story doesn't add up, but I've only been to the Holland area once. Still, it seems like $1300 would be more than enough to get a subsidized apartment.

[outunderthestars]

Something about this story doesn't add up, but I've only been to the Holland area once. Still, it seems like $1300 would be more than enough to get a subsidized apartment.

This is what I was wondering as well. One can find small apartments for under $500 and they would surely qualify for housing assistance which should cut their rent dramatically.

[Valnen]

Just because something is the law does not mean the law is just and should be enforced. There are many stupid laws on the books that would ruin this country if they were ever enforced.

The people that say this is justice should be forced to live homeless like this poor kid.

[nateeasy]

Parents could be druggies.

[Sophia]

This is what I was wondering as well. One can find small apartments for under $500 and they would surely qualify for housing assistance which should cut their rent dramatically.

Not even $500. The article doesn't say if the parents have straight disability or SSI. If they have straight disability, they should be able to get an apartment almost for free.

Again, I don't know the Holland area, but unless you've made some amazingly bad mistakes with credit cards and stuff, you can live off $600 a month here and not be homeless. Not WELL (you'll just have the bare necessities and your apartment will be small), but you can do it.

Parents could be druggies.

This is Michigan, even druggies can get an apartment here if they have any amount of savvyness. People on straight disability usually aren't druggies however, as the requirements are much stricter than SSI.

[dekline]

Shut down after 10 minutes to help his disable parents get through tough times?

This sounds too bad to be true.

[nateeasy]

Well I think we all can agree it is a shitty article that lacks a lot of key information.

[Sophia]

Well I think we all can agree it is a shitty article that lacks a lot of key information.

That I can definitely agree with. There is absolutely no reason to be homeless living on $1300 in Michigan. As long as you stick to the necessaries (Food, Services, Internet), you could even live pretty well. I'd kill to get $1300 on my SSI. :\

[outunderthestars]

Just because something is the law does not mean the law is just and should be enforced. There are many stupid laws on the books that would ruin this country if they were ever enforced. The people that say this is justice should be forced to live homeless like this poor kid.

Like I said before, a sob story doesn't negate the rule of law.

[Log4Girlz]

But I heard Nathan's hotdogs were the best.

[ErasureAcer]

They don't get disability?

They're from the future where Paul Ryan has done away with disability.

[kottila]

The internet has plenty of sites that do ratings for the quality of restaurants. I'm confident this isn't one of those things in this day and age that the government HAS to inherently get involved with. Yelp.com is an example.

Going to a supermarket you would every day have to update yourself of the reputation of every single producer of food (expiry dates would be voluntary as well?).

If something makes you sick you would have to prove which company is at fault, fight against a large team of lawyers. Because of tort reforms you will not get enough money to cover your health expenses anyway and the financial loss to the company won't be enough for it to be profitable to change their policies.

Would you get rid of fire codes as well? Then you could start a night club, not follow any of the old regulation and then declare bankrupcy when something happens and start a new club the next week. Or would the guests be at fault for not investigating the fire exits and sorinkler systems themselves?

[SpectreFire]

The hot dog stand was within the city's downtown commercial zone, where food carts not connected to restaurants are banned. City of Holland Assistant Manager Greg Robinson said the rule was set up to protect restaurants in the area -- it would be unfair for carts, who don't have to pay for property, to compete with restaurants who do.

Uh... have they never heard of food trucks?

[Sophia]

Uh... have they never heard of food trucks?

Reminds me of Schwans, which is fairly common in the Michigan area.

[Happypwnstar]

i know a kid about my age that takes care of his parents "disable" and gets like 2 grand a month for sitting on his ass his 24 now there's gotta be something the government can do.

[Aguirre]

What a bunch of wieners.

damn son.

sucks for kid who genuinely only wanted to help.

[Sophia]

i know a kid about my age that takes care of his parents "disable" and gets like 2 grand a month for sitting on his ass his 24 now there's gotta be something the government can do.

Your tone sounds a bit mocking, but if you have no other option, it's not a bad lifestyle. Beats being homeless, and you always have company and a chance to move up.

[Akainu]

CBS, hire a copy editor.

Or they accidentally revealed the true intent of his business.

[Dude Abides]

The internet has plenty of sites that do ratings for the quality of restaurants. I'm confident this isn't one of those things in this day and age that the government HAS to inherently get involved with. Yelp.com is an example.

It's very bizarre that you think a world where someone has to do research on the internet just to assure themselves that they won't get salmonella from the burger joint down the street is somehow ideal.

[kottila]

It's very bizarre that you think a world where someone has to do research on the internet just to assure themselves that they won't get salmonella from the burger joint down the street is somehow ideal.

Couldn't every restaurant also make the customers sign away their right to sue them?

[Valnen]

Like I said before, a sob story doesn't negate the rule of law.

It doesn't negate it, but if you're one of those people that everyone should always be punished to the maximum extent of the law, or should always be punished at all really, you're honestly not a very good person.

[piratepwnsninja]

The money was in the hot dog stand.