[Boken]

Why does Diana exist? Like, who thought it was a good idea?

soda cop raging after getting owned by a diana.

news at 12

[Veezy]

God damn I love playing support classes. I need to work on my Shen, he's pretty shit. However, my Alistar is rocking socks. Playing dominion games to practice that w+q combo. Good times.

[Ken]

God damn I love playing support classes. I need to work on my Shen, he's pretty shit. However, my Alistar is rocking socks. Playing dominion games to practice that w+q combo. Good times.

que?

[dimb]

soda cop raging after getting owned by a diana. news at 12

Whatever. Champions with mobility on that level are the reason it isn't viable to run like half the champions in the game, and why you can only pick between three different AD carries if you are playing seriously.

I don't even think she's that good for the record.

[Guiz]

que?

According to Riot, Shen is supposed to be a support. That might do the work with the taunt + vorpal blade combo. Adding the ult for the shield, this might worth a try at least once.

[Veezy]

que?

Whoops, I should have said support and tank classes.

Honestly, I'd like to tank more, but I'm just really bad at it. Any tips on getting better or do you just have to play more.

[Boken]

Whatever. Champions with mobility on that level are the reason it isn't viable to run like half the champions in the game, and why you can only pick between three different AD carries if you are playing seriously. I don't even think she's that good for the record.

"her mobility make champions unviable"
"she isn't even good"

what, make up your mind

Akali is at the very least just as mobile and you can still play ADC with her around.

[Ferga]

You know what would make Rengar amazing?

If the entire screen gets a red shading or gets darker (for colour-blind) when he ults, for every single player on the map.

No vision debuff or anything, the screen just changes colour.

It'll be a great "I'M RENGAR AND IMMA EAT YOU" type of thing, similar to nocturne.

[Boken]

They should make the heat seeking mode toggleable.

DANG

[Q8D3vil]

what make rengar amazing that he is the fucking predator.

[Boken]

Next champion better be a mechanics based champion or else

You know what would make Rengar amazing? If the entire screen gets a red shading or gets darker (for colour-blind) when he ults, for every single player on the map. No vision debuff or anything, the screen just changes colour. It'll be a great "I'M RENGAR AND IMMA EAT YOU" type of thing, similar to nocturne.

Actually this isn't a bad idea. I was just imagining level 6 Rengar ulting, and stealth walking past the river ward and then jumping you in the lane and then rooting you. Jesus christ it's like Evelyn with a stun. A red shading lets people know he's coming at least. I'm scared now. What an asshole jungler I hope he clears really slowly.

[Ken]

Next champion better have ignore unit collision. It's been too long.

[dimb]

Akali is at the least as mobile and you can still play ADC with her around.

This has nothing to do with what I said, and Akali is nowhere near as mobile as Diana who creates vision and paths to any mob on the map.

Diana as a champion is nothing special and not even that great. Because champions can move around so much the less mobile champions become more and more worthless. It's not really like a difficult concept.

[Slightly Live]

=/

[Veezy]

Is it best to practice games doing solo blind pick and just trying out different classes or to do normal draft pick?

[dimb]

Did you learn that Varus is a bad champion at least?

Is it best to practice games doing solo blind pick and just trying out different classes or to do normal draft pick?

Blind sucks. Just do draft if you can.

[Boken]

Whatever. Champions with mobility on that level are the reason *snip* why you can only pick between three different AD carries if you are playing seriously. I don't even think she's that good for the record.

Jumping to jungle camps has nothing to do with shutting down ADCs - therefore we consider team fight capability. Akali is more mobile in team fights - she existed for ages and ADCs were pretty much unaffected.

When you say a champion isnt "good" - it generally means they're not strong. If you mean you think the design is boring, maybe you should be clearer. She's a thematic champion - her moon theme and design came before her abilities and thats why I think she's boring. Champions where mechanics come first are a lot better.

[Slightly Live]

Did you learn that Varus is a bad champion at least? Blind sucks. Just do draft if you can.

Unfortunately, yes.

[Ken]

=/

ololo

Feather boy.

[Boken]

I'm going to play Varus next time we play together

CLGna v Invictus Gaming (the other top chinese team) on now:
http://www.twitch.tv/nicegametv

[falastini]

They missed the chance to make Rengar support. That would have been hilarious. Just have him stabbing and roaring at ppl to buff/heal them.


I dunno if this has been posted, but Riot Dev says top lane is broken: http://na.leagueoflegends.com/board/...0#post28106580

The counterplay and gameplay of top-lane is something that's on my radar - However, it's not something a single champion change can fix. You cannot keep making stuff "fit" in the current top-lane because what exists in the current top-lane is almost all poison. When you do so, bad things happen. The current power level of Darius is almost directly caused by how strong all the top-laners are and how snowbally that lane has become.

No - top lane cannot remain like this. You cannot keep piling on poison on top of poison for short term guaranteed viability. If the power creep has already happened and top-lane is poison - you *cannot* keep justifying releasing more poison into top-lane to argue that 'hey, that's what the game is like.' Top-lane cannot be an endless spree of characters who are geared around stomping out the opposing character early game and leaving it at that - That's not sustainable - nor is it actual gameplay.

interesting stuff

[Veezy]

Forgive my noobness, what makes the top lane broken compared to the bottom lane?

[Koomaster]

Next champion better have ignore unit collision. It's been too long.

I wish they would get rid of unit collision entirely; or at the very least friendly unit collision. It's kind of buggy anyway. If I'm playing one of the smaller champs I often find myself trapped in my own minion wave. There has been a handful of times when I've had to flash out of being sandwiched between minions so I don't get killed by incoming enemies.

Last night I was playing with Teemo and got caught between two friendly minion waves and they carried me all the way to the enemy base because I couldn't get out.

[Ferga]

Forgive my noobness, what makes the top lane broken compared to the bottom lane?

A general explanation:

Top lane has alot more experience than bot lane since only one person is getting the experience. If top lane gets a lead on the opponent's top lane, your team will have the highest level character in the current game. Plus if your top lane is ahead, your enemy top laner will be almost certainly be denied experience and farm because they will lose alot of their health if they go in for minions. This starts the snowball effect.

There comes a point where you actually need more than 2 people to gank and shut down a top laner because they snowballed out of control and can possibly kill 2 people alone.

Top lane is usually fit for tanky characters who dish out a lot of damage mid game. This means that if a top lane has snowballed, they will gank other lanes and instantly kill them and can turret dive safely because of their level and gold advantage. They can push turrets, steal buffs alone and get dragons thus giving the entire team map control.

You might think mid is the same but it's not. Mid lane tends to be squishy, bursty champions. They can snowball as well but they can't turret dive to secure kills and get objectives quicker such as dragon and towers while top laners can.

[Boken]

All the above and

Because top laners are generally tanky in one way or another, small mistakes are less costly - so if you're far ahead, you stay ahead. Because of this, there is less opportunity for counterplaying. Whereas in middle, if you screw up you'll probably blow up and die.

[Q8D3vil]

A general explanation: Top lane has alot more experience than bot lane since only one person is getting the experience. If top lane gets a lead on the opponent's top lane, your team will have the highest level character in the current game. Plus if your top lane is ahead, your enemy top laner will be almost certainly be denied experience and farm because they will lose alot of their health if they go in for minions. This starts the snowball effect. There comes a point where you actually need more than 2 people to gank and shut down a top laner because they snowballed out of control and can possibly kill 2 people alone. Top lane is usually fit for tanky characters who dish out a lot of damage mid game. This means that if a top lane has snowballed, they will gank other lanes and instantly kill them and can turret dive safely because of their level and gold advantage. They can push turrets, steal buffs alone and get dragons thus giving the entire team map control. You might think mid is the same but it's not. Mid lane tends to be squishy, bursty champions. They can snowball as well but they can't turret dive to secure kills and get objectives quicker such as dragon and towers while top laners can.

pro's countering this with lane swaps, but its something that is kinda hard to pick up for solo

[EXGN]

Just finished watching the IPL games. TSM strong as always, but both Curse and Legion put up really good shows.

Legion came out of no where, I was familiar with Cruzer but outside of that, I hadn't heard of anyone else on that team. Really good to see them take third, especially against some of the other big teams in attendance (WE and the up-and-coming MTW especially).

Curse's synergy seems to be improving as well. For the longest time, I've thought Curse had the best players individually, but they lacked the experience working together as a team to succeed. This is also the first tournament I've seen in a while that had all five members there. They did really well, and I think Curse could be a top 3 team over Dig. If they hadn't played something like 8 or 9 games in a row, I think the last games versus TSM would have been much closer.

TSM came back really strong after getting crushed by Blaze. Not sure if they've improved significantly since then, but they showed they are still the top NA team.

MTW is pretty disappointing. I'm not sure at this point whether Aphromoo is better off on MTW or TSM Evo. MTW bottom lane is strong, but the rest of the team feels too inconsistent.

[Blizzard]

Old Kat, I'll miss you. Triple kills everywhere.

Yeah, RIP. I'm super sad the possibility of double ult in teamfights will be removed, meaning I probably never will get above quadrakills with Kat.

Jesus christ it's like Evelyn with a stun.

Eve used to have a stun.

I hope he clears really slowly.

If I recall correctly from a stream I was watching, he hit red buff down to like 25% health in maybe half a second at level 7. I don't think he's going to be a very slow jungle clearer.

Last night I was playing with Teemo and got caught between two friendly minion waves and they carried me all the way to the enemy base because I couldn't get out.

I'm assuming you're joking, but that is the cutest description ever.

[FoxSpirit]

Holy shit this game makes me rage so hard. Nothing else makes me want to put my fist straight through my monitor. I'm usually a calm and collected guy, but I actually ragequitted from a game just now because I thought I was going to break something.

Solution: play Starcraft II :-P

[Barrel Cannon]

Has riot said anything about fixing diana's broken curved ability that works differently based on whether you are top or bottom lane

[Boken]

Yeah, RIP. I'm super sad the possibility of double ult in teamfights will be removed, meaning I probably never will get above quadrakills with Kat. Eve used to have a stun.

Thanks, thats why I made that reference.

Build CDR if you want to double ult lol

WTB more AP/cdr item without mana regen

Just finished watching the IPL games. TSM strong as always, but both Curse and Legion put up really good shows. Legion came out of no where, I was familiar with Cruzer but outside of that, I hadn't heard of anyone else on that team. Really good to see them take third, especially against some of the other big teams in attendance (WE and the up-and-coming MTW especially).

Funny thing is, LGN middle (wildturtle) was just a sub. He was probably better than their real middle.

Has riot said anything about fixing diana's broken curved ability that works differently based on whether you are top or bottom lane

What? It curves the same way. You mean the fact that blue can use it to hit brushes up top and that purple can use it to hit brushes at bottom? Yeah they've talked about it and said its going to stay that way

[XeroSauce]

Thanks, thats why I made that reference. Build CDR if you want to double ult lol WTB more AP/cdr item without mana regen Funny thing is, LGN middle (wildturtle) was just a sub. He was probably better than their real middle. What? It curves the same way. You mean the fact that blue can use it to hit brushes up top and that purple can use it to hit brushes at bottom? Yeah they've talked about it and said its going to stay that way

It's the other way around, isn't it?

In other news, Rengar completely destroying PBE, more news at 11.

People are picking him up and just going ham ,and they suck with him. But his kit is very forgiving with really low cooldowns and very high damage from building very basic items.

[XeroSauce]

I wish they would get rid of unit collision entirely; or at the very least friendly unit collision. It's kind of buggy anyway. If I'm playing one of the smaller champs I often find myself trapped in my own minion wave. There has been a handful of times when I've had to flash out of being sandwiched between minions so I don't get killed by incoming enemies. Last night I was playing with Teemo and got caught between two friendly minion waves and they carried me all the way to the enemy base because I couldn't get out.

That sounds hilarious, imagine a Teemo constantly spamming his W and shitting shrooms trying to get out of a creep wave and just bobbing around

[Blizzard]

Thanks, thats why I made that reference. Build CDR if you want to double ult lol WTB more AP/cdr item without mana regen

I guess I thought from what people were saying from PBE, even with CDR it would be impossible. What's the new ult cooldown time for her at level 1-2-3? Is the passive still 15 seconds for kills/assists (now without the gold bonus for kills/assists)?

And about AP/cdr, I'm a fan of deathfire on kat if you're doing well in lane, can get it relatively early (though I guess that wastes the kage's pick gold) and have opportunities to focus people. W -> DFG -> gunblade -> shunpo -> ult, with ignite if needed, can do funny amounts of damage.

[Haly]

Someone remind me why you can't plop a tanky dps in mid for the same advantage as they get at top?

Other than that it's not the current meta.

[Boken]

It's the other way around, isn't it? In other news, Rengar completely destroying PBE, more news at 11. People are picking him up and just going ham ,and they suck with him. But his kit is very forgiving with really low cooldowns and very high damage from building very basic items.

Yeah it probably does curve the other way. I don't play Diana.

I think they should move power away from the basic skills. It's too forgiving to spam them. If he were released without the ferocity mechanic - that is, no empowered skills, he'd probably a pretty average champion. The basic skills are fine, and he has empowered abilities on top of that. Weaker basic skills put more power into the empowered skills and "separate the good Rengars from the great Rengars"

Someone remind me why you can't plop a tanky dps in mid for the same advantage as they get at top? Other than that it's not the current meta.

Because the mage that has to go top will get dominated by other tops and the jungler. While the mage in middle against a top laner can be safe. Tops are viable top because they're the ones that can handle it.

I guess I thought from what people were saying from PBE, even with CDR it would be impossible. What's the new ult cooldown time for her at level 1-2-3? Is the passive still 15 seconds for kills/assists (now without the gold bonus for kills/assists)? And about AP/cdr, I'm a fan of deathfire on kat if you're doing well in lane, can get it relatively early (though I guess that wastes the kage's pick gold) and have opportunities to focus people. W -> DFG -> gunblade -> shunpo -> ult, with ignite if needed, can do funny amounts of damage.

New Death Lotus is 60s at all levels - 40% cdr is 36s at all levels. Her passive is -10s on the ult so if you kill 4 people you can get a double ult if you have max cdr.

[Wolf Akela]

*plays ARAM*

*gets Ez for the first time*

omg finally i can try ap ez enough cash for dcap sorc lich and stacking aa staffs this gonna be awesome

fuck :D

Someone remind me why you can't plop a tanky dps in mid for the same advantage as they get at top? Other than that it's not the current meta.

Mage will have to go top where escaping is more difficult. Some mages can afford to do this, like Vlad, Anivia and even Cass. I've had a game where I went Cass solo top against Shen, which was such an easy time for me.

The tanky DPS better have either good AoE farming or have a good gap closer though.

[garath]

So Diana is crazy fun. I enjoy her more than any recent champ (unless you count Lee Sin who I just started playing and happen to love as well).

I do pretty well with her in mid and jungle but she really is a high risk, high reward sort of champ. If you engage, you're engaged usually to the death.

I find that running movespeed quints and masteries is the best. That extra speed is the difference between life and death quite a bit.

On a side note, I love that Legion had such a good showing at IPL over the weekend. I'm a big fan of Cruzer and it's great to see them starting to get some recognition. I still can't believe Curse came back game 3 against them. I thought they had it in the bag.

TSM is still the best NA team though. Will be very interesting to see them go head to head with the world's best again.

[Haly]

Because the mage that has to go top will get dominated by other tops and the jungler. While the mage in middle against a top laner can be safe. Tops are viable top because they're the ones that can handle it.

Wait wait, why is a mage dominated by top laners in the top lane, but safe against top laners in the mid lane?

Okay no, I see the confusion. What I meant was, why not run tanky dps in the top and mid lanes if they snowball so much harder?

[kiunchbb]

Wait wait, why is a mage dominated by top laners in the top lane, but safe against top laners in the mid lane?

Top bush for melee to approach, a lot further from tower, not enough retreat path.

[Blizzard]

Wait wait, why is a mage dominated by top laners in the top lane, but safe against top laners in the mid lane? Okay no, I see the confusion. What I meant was, why not run tanky dps in the top and mid lanes if they snowball so much harder?

Mid lane is shorter, so it's in theory safer for the AP mids there.

And I would suggest that several AP mids can snowball quite hard (early game leblanc for instance). Having a mix of AP and AD damage in different lanes means the other team can't just focus on pure armor or pure magic resist to nullify your team damage.

[Wolf Akela]

Okay no, I see the confusion. What I meant was, why not run tanky dps in the top and mid lanes if they snowball so much harder?

Where would the mage go though?

[garath]

Wait wait, why is a mage dominated by top laners in the top lane, but safe against top laners in the mid lane? Okay no, I see the confusion. What I meant was, why not run tanky dps in the top and mid lanes if they snowball so much harder?

I've seen that in solo queue, but you'll be lacking the AP burst/AOE/utility of a mage.

[Haly]

Where would the mage go though?

There wouldnt be one.

I've seen that in solo queue, but you'll be lacking the AP burst/AOE/utility of a mage.

In exchange youd get two oportunities to snowball.

[Wolf Akela]

There wouldnt be one.

The enemy team saves a lot of money by itemizing against just one type of damage unless your jungler puts a bit more into offense (Udyr).

In exchange youd get two oportunities to snowball.

It's just as risky as carrying snowball items. You get three opportunities to snowball by carrying Mejai, Occult and Leviathan, but you wouldn't do that, would you?

[scy]

Okay no, I see the confusion. What I meant was, why not run tanky dps in the top and mid lanes if they snowball so much harder?

Mostly because you'll have too much AD and that's easier to counter. Multiple tanky melee DPS will help your sustain but you'll lack the burst and utility of an AP. More tanky DPS isn't necessarily better just because they have the ability to snowball harder.

[Boken]

Yeah, you can take the risk and put a top laner middle, but it's harder to snowball in middle because the Mage can just play safely and farm under tower + wraiths/wolves. Not only that, the risk is that mage+jungler ganks are a lot more threatening to top laners due to the higher damage mages have. Mages can also snowball so all you gain is the difference in the snowball potential anyway.

In the end, if you don't have a big enough impact, your mid-late game becomes borked.

Basically - the potential isn't great enough because mages can play safe and ganks hurt like ballz

[Haly]

It's just as risky as carrying snowball items. You get three opportunities to snowball by carrying Mejai, Occult and Leviathan, but you wouldn't do that, would you?

That is not quite the same thing, as there is an inherent risk with those items which make them unviable, but there is no analogous disadvantage to running a tanky dps over a mage (your tanky dps doesnt lose 30% of its power everytime he dies).

Also if the snowball items werent so unreliable I would definitely run all 3 :)

[scy]

That is not quite the same thing, as there is an inherent risk with those items which make them unviable, but there is no analogous disadvantage to running a tanky dps over a mage (your tanky dps doesnt lose 30% of its power everytime he dies).

Bloodthirster?

Edit: Put another way, bruiser top and mid vs bruiser top and mid will come down to the individual lanes. Bruiser top and mid vs bruiser top, AP mid will almost always favor the latter.

[zkylon]

That is not quite the same thing, as there is an inherent risk with those items which make them unviable, but there is no analogous disadvantage to running a tanky dps over a mage (your tanky dps doesnt lose 30% of its power everytime he dies). Also if the snowball items werent so unreliable I would definitely run all 3 :)

I've never run against an enemy bruiser on mid, but I imagine she'd have a hard time farming unless the champ has bursty AoE skills. The enemy mage can stun/snare and harass from a distance and be safe, or let himself get pushed and force the bruiser to overextend to farm, since most tops are melee.

I don't see why you'd want a bruiser on mid since bruisers aren't really all that naturally snowbally outside of top and you can just put some less frail AP (Vlad, Galio, Anivia...) if you want to have someone safer on mid.