GraveRobberX
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(08-19-2012, 03:44 AM)

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#201

Leno really fucked over NBC for 3+ years by doing that 10pm slot

That would mean 5 hours of Prime-time television removed, for a sub-par comedy show

That is how CBS and ABC stole away NBC's audience

People wanted the Law & Order SVU or Drama @10pm, they didn't get that

Also NBC had so many shows, not enough timeslots, that it was re-arranging them all over the place
Once Leno left the 10pm slot, most shows lost viewers due to people being hooked to other channels shows, so NBC went ban-hammer on them
Then you had so many empty slots, NBC couldn't fill them
Remember XL version of 30 Rock and The Office just to kill time

CBS and ABC facilitated that and reaped the rewards from NBC's bungle

There's a reason Comcast bought NBC, due to the Leno debacle, the price for it became hella cheaper
Eric Walton
(08-19-2012, 03:44 AM)

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#202

Can't believe we're discussing (so soon) a future with Jimmy Fallon as the host of the Tonight Show. I remember his start being very weak, but he's obviously found his niche now, I like the show.
Ninja Scooter
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(08-19-2012, 03:49 AM)

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#203

Originally Posted by GraveRobberX: View Post
Leno really fucked over NBC for 3+ years by doing that 10pm slot

That would mean 5 hours of Prime-time television removed, for a sub-par comedy show

That is how CBS and ABC stole away NBC's audience

People wanted the Law & Order SVU or Drama @10pm, they didn't get that

Also NBC had so many shows, not enough timeslots, that it was re-arranging them all over the place
Once Leno left the 10pm slot, most shows lost viewers due to people being hooked to other channels shows, so NBC went ban-hammer on them
Then you had so many empty slots, NBC couldn't fill them
Remember XL version of 30 Rock and The Office just to kill time

CBS and ABC facilitated that and reaped the rewards from NBC's bungle

There's a reason Comcast bought NBC, due to the Leno debacle, the price for it became hella cheaper
NBC fucked themselves over. They kept trying to have their cake and eat it too. They couldn't stand to let Leno or Conan leave so they tried to please both, which was impossible.
-ImaginaryInsider
Member
(08-19-2012, 04:43 AM)
#204

Originally Posted by J.W.Crazy: View Post
Nope. If they had their way he would have stayed put until Leno was ready to give the Tonight Show up. Conan was getting offers from FOX and there was talk that Letterman might be retiring so he threatened to leave unless they gave him what he wanted. NBC was so short sighted they didn't realize Jay was just going to go to another network. To keep him from doing that they offered him a bunch of different shows until he finally agreed to the 10
o'clock spot.
Conan turned down numerous offers out of loyalty to NBC, and once NBC figured out he wanted the Tonight Show they made vague promises to him to keep him there. Unfortunately, NBC dicked him around pretty badly on one his contract renewals, so he eventually wised up and made sure it was going to happen... thats reasonable.

You should read that new book about it, NBC screwed both Jay and Conan at different points
border
wears the band's shirts to the band's concerts
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(08-19-2012, 04:59 AM)

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#205

I really wish NBC had just let Leno walk after Conan took over. I kinda have my doubts that he really would have found a place with another network, and been able to rebuild his audience.
xJavonta
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(08-19-2012, 05:14 AM)

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#206

Originally Posted by rekameohs: View Post
Conan is fucking miles ahead of Jay Leno when it comes to comedy.
Yep.
Goldrush
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(08-19-2012, 05:28 AM)
#207

I think it's important to point out from the article that the cuts have nothing to do with the performance of the show. Comcast seems to be actively finding places they could cut. If low-budget is the goal for NBC, I foresee even more reality shows debacles in the near future.
J.W.Crazy
Member
(08-19-2012, 06:59 AM)
#208

Originally Posted by -ImaginaryInsider: View Post
Conan turned down numerous offers out of loyalty to NBC, and once NBC figured out he wanted the Tonight Show they made vague promises to him to keep him there. Unfortunately, NBC dicked him around pretty badly on one his contract renewals, so he eventually wised up and made sure it was going to happen... thats reasonable.

You should read that new book about it, NBC screwed both Jay and Conan at different points
Yeah, that was my point. Everybody wants to demonize Leno but if you read all the behind the scenes stuff he just comes across as kind of weird and oddly principled. He was an overwhelming success and the took away his show. He seems like the kind of guy who wouldn't know what to do with himself if he didn't have his job. When NBC treated Conan poorly he forced their hand but when it happens to Leno he's just supposed to walk away?
GCX
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(08-19-2012, 07:09 AM)

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#209

Originally Posted by Eric Walton: View Post
Can't believe we're discussing (so soon) a future with Jimmy Fallon as the host of the Tonight Show. I remember his start being very weak, but he's obviously found his niche now, I like the show.
It's not exactly a new story though. I mean Conan was quite bad the first few years in Late Night and was constantly under a cancellation threat.
SpinDasher
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(08-19-2012, 11:04 AM)

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#210

Originally Posted by Bgamer90: View Post
Read the thread. We went through it in here pretty in depth :)
You weren't kidding, damn.
Mistle
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(08-19-2012, 11:18 AM)

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#211

Originally Posted by nateeasy: View Post


leno does have pretty great FX people haha
meppi
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(08-19-2012, 11:33 AM)

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#212

Quote:
I’ve also learned that Jay Leno took what is being described as a “tremendous” pay cut to “save as many people’s jobs as he could”.
Could be me, but I have a hard time believing that part...
verbum
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(08-19-2012, 11:40 AM)

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#213

So why did NBC go from having some great sitcoms and a late night show that ruled to the present?

Quote:
At its height, NBC was the very model of what a television network should be. With iconic programming, enviable ratings and spectacular business success, the peacock network delivered plenty of laughs along the way with “The Cosby Show,” “Seinfeld” and “Friends.”
Because of Zucker, the worst CEO of a network since they became networks.

Quote:
In prime time, the story of the last decade has been NBC’s inability to create any big hits to replace those of its late-1990s glory years — especially “Seinfeld,” “Friends” and “E.R.” This period has coincided with the rise of Mr. Zucker, who in 2000 was promoted from executive producer of “Today” to entertainment chief for the entire network. Some of its recent shows, like “The Office” and “30 Rock,” are critical successes but garner only relatively small audiences.
And he gave the go ahead to move Leno and Conan.

I appreciate the early part of The Office and 30 Rock but they have been on too long.
I'm surprised Zucker lasted 10 years. GE really wasn't paying attention.
gabbo
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(08-19-2012, 07:26 PM)

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#214

Originally Posted by verbum: View Post
So why did NBC go from having some great sitcoms and a late night show that ruled to the present?

Because of Zucker, the worst CEO of a network since they became networks.

And he gave the go ahead to move Leno and Conan.

I appreciate the early part of The Office and 30 Rock but they have been on too long.
I'm surprised Zucker lasted 10 years. GE really wasn't paying attention.
Zucker did give a lot of great niche shows a chance (and in some cases more than that), also isn't he also a part of the divide between NBC New York and LA?
MarauderShields
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(08-19-2012, 08:02 PM)

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#215

Originally Posted by J.W.Crazy: View Post
Yeah, that was my point. Everybody wants to demonize Leno but if you read all the behind the scenes stuff he just comes across as kind of weird and oddly principled. He was an overwhelming success and the took away his show. He seems like the kind of guy who wouldn't know what to do with himself if he didn't have his job. When NBC treated Conan poorly he forced their hand but when it happens to Leno he's just supposed to walk away?
Yes? At the very least he should have never agreed to the whole thing in the first place. He knew he wasnt going to retire and should have just told them that right off the bat.
BrokenEchelon
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(08-19-2012, 08:08 PM)

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#216

I bet if he gave up his entire salary they could've kept the other 20 staffers.

I mean, he does the job because he loves it right? That was his excuse for stealing it from Conan.

I'm also pretty sure he doesn't need any more money.

animlboogy
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(08-19-2012, 08:11 PM)

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#217

After reading the books on the two late night wars, it really seems to come down to Leno's workaholic tendencies. He'll do whatever it takes for the job, and he'll tell whatever bullshit jokes to appeal to his audience of boring old people. But as far as rich people go, he's a class act, he cares about his people, and in the end, they shouldn't have promised his job away in the first place.

It's too bad the prime time thing didn't work. I wasn't going to watch it anyway, and with Fallon surprising everybody and turning out a good show night in night out, Conan and him would have been a great long-term combo.

In fact, every single late night host right now (especially if we include the cable guys like Stewart and Colbert) is watchable... Except for Leno. It's just a shitty lead-in for Fallon's show.
Last edited by animlboogy; 08-19-2012 at 08:15 PM.
Bgamer90
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(08-19-2012, 08:34 PM)

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#218

Originally Posted by animlboogy: View Post
After reading the books on the two late night wars, it really seems to come down to Leno's workaholic tendencies. He'll do whatever it takes for the job, and he'll tell whatever bullshit jokes to appeal to his audience of boring old people. But as far as rich people go, he's a class act, he cares about his people, and in the end, they shouldn't have promised his job away in the first place.
Yep. Leno is a workaholic. He'll do anything to get a job and keep it.

Quote:
It's too bad the prime time thing didn't work. I wasn't going to watch it anyway, and with Fallon surprising everybody and turning out a good show night in night out, Conan and him would have been a great long-term combo.
Man, I loved "Conan then Fallon" for the few months that combo was on NBC. Felt really fresh. Both shows are unique in their own ways.

Quote:
In fact, every single late night host right now (especially if we include the cable guys like Stewart and Colbert) is watchable... Except for Leno. It's just a shitty lead-in for Fallon's show.
I pretty much agree. Not saying that for "Leno hate"... Leno's show is just way too predictable.
See You Next Wednesday
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(08-19-2012, 08:55 PM)

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#219

Originally Posted by animlboogy: View Post
After reading the books on the two late night wars, it really seems to come down to Leno's workaholic tendencies. He'll do whatever it takes for the job, and he'll tell whatever bullshit jokes to appeal to his audience of boring old people. But as far as rich people go, he's a class act, he cares about his people, and in the end, they shouldn't have promised his job away in the first place.
I remember when he was in the hospital for surgery & every time the camera was on him, he seemed twitchy as hell & unconformable when mentioning how long he will be off of work (I think it ended up being only 3-4 days).
J.W.Crazy
Member
(08-19-2012, 09:18 PM)
#220

Originally Posted by MarauderShields: View Post
Yes? At the very least he should have never agreed to the whole thing in the first place. He knew he wasnt going to retire and should have just told them that right off the bat.
He did tell them. From the day they signed the contract with Conan they were trying to figure out what to do with Leno. At one point he was going to host an American Top Gear. After that fell through they were going to give him a generic car show on Saturdays at noon. He rightfully turned that down. The prime time show was their last ditch effort to keep him from going to another network.

In terms of agreeing to it in the first place he had no choice. His contract for The Tonight Show was up and they weren't going to re-sign him. It's not the first time they've done it either. Steve Allen and Jack Paar were both pushed out.
gabbo
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(08-19-2012, 09:22 PM)

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#221

Originally Posted by J.W.Crazy: View Post
He did tell them. From the day they signed the contract with Conan they were trying to figure out what to do with Leno. At one point he was going to host an American Top Gear. After that fell through they were going to give him a generic car show on Saturdays at noon. He rightfully turned that down. The prime time show was their last ditch effort to keep him from going to another network.

In terms of agreeing to it in the first place he had no choice. His contract for The Tonight Show was up and they weren't going to re-sign him. It's not the first time they've done it either. Steve Allen and Jack Paar were both pushed out.
They couldn't pitch him more than three shows from when Conan's deal was signed to 2009?
BertramCooper
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(08-19-2012, 09:33 PM)

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#222

I normally would say that Comcast should go after Craig Ferguson to replace Leno, since he's far and away the best late night talk show host on the major broadcast networks, but I think Craig works best after midnight.

Plus, I don't think the typical Tonight Show audience would understand Ferguson's comedy, especially since they apparently couldn't even grasp Conan's. The cold open puppets would confuse the hell out of them.
Ninja Scooter
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(08-19-2012, 09:38 PM)

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#223

Originally Posted by gabbo: View Post
They couldn't pitch him more than three shows from when Conan's deal was signed to 2009?
They were stuck because Leno had offers from Fox and ABC to do a regular 11:30pm talk show with them. They had to offer him a ton of money to basically keep doing his old show with his old staff at 10pm because they were afraid of someone else getting him. IT's not like they could offer Jay some little weekly show and have him happily ride off into the sunset when the competition was after him.
MarauderShields
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(08-19-2012, 09:44 PM)

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#224

Originally Posted by J.W.Crazy: View Post
He did tell them. From the day they signed the contract with Conan they were trying to figure out what to do with Leno. At one point he was going to host an American Top Gear. After that fell through they were going to give him a generic car show on Saturdays at noon. He rightfully turned that down. The prime time show was their last ditch effort to keep him from going to another network.

In terms of agreeing to it in the first place he had no choice. His contract for The Tonight Show was up and they weren't going to re-sign him. It's not the first time they've done it either. Steve Allen and Jack Paar were both pushed out.
How did he have no choice? Leaving was a choice.
Ninja Scooter
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(08-19-2012, 09:51 PM)

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#225

Originally Posted by MarauderShields: View Post
How did he have no choice? Leaving was a choice.
His choice was staying at NBC, with his same staff and producers, and doing his show at 10pm, or going to Fox or ABC with an all new network, new staff, ect...and doing a late night show from scratch. He chose familiarity.

Conan had a choice too. He didn't have to stay at NBC.
Osietra
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(08-19-2012, 09:53 PM)

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#226

Itt: Larry Sanders.
MarauderShields
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(08-19-2012, 09:58 PM)

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#227

Originally Posted by Ninja Scooter: View Post
His choice was staying at NBC, with his same staff and producers, and doing his show at 10pm, or going to Fox or ABC with an all new network, new staff, ect...and doing a late night show from scratch. He chose familiarity.

Conan had a choice too. He didn't have to stay at NBC.
He wouldnt have been able to take his staff?

Conan made a bad deal too. He shouldnt have trusted NBC and Leno.
Ninja Scooter
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(08-19-2012, 10:25 PM)

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#228

Originally Posted by MarauderShields: View Post
He wouldnt have been able to take his staff?

Conan made a bad deal too. He shouldnt have trusted NBC and Leno.
What did Leno do? He took the 10pm job. NBC saw it was failing and essentially took the option that was going to cost them the least amount of money, which was to put Leno back at 11:30pm and move Conan back. Blame Conan's stupid lawyers for not having time slot guarantee in his contract. Leno didn't steal anything from Conan.
etiolate
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(08-19-2012, 10:50 PM)

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#229

Leno could have told NBC, no, if I do this thing you're doing and move Conan out then I'll be a supreme dickhead for the rest of my career.
MarauderShields
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(08-19-2012, 11:01 PM)

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#230

Originally Posted by Ninja Scooter: View Post
What did Leno do? He took the 10pm job. NBC saw it was failing and essentially took the option that was going to cost them the least amount of money, which was to put Leno back at 11:30pm and move Conan back. Blame Conan's stupid lawyers for not having time slot guarantee in his contract. Leno didn't steal anything from Conan.
When the announcement was made it was made clear he was leaving except he didnt leave.

NBC didnt treat him like he deserved and he was pissed about it but yet he didnt have to take it. He didnt want to repeat the drama years earlier between him and Dave and yet he allowed it to happen.

Leno didnt want the jobs NBC offered and he didnt even really want the 10pm job. He wanted 11:35.

Conan obviously deserves blame and obviously NBC deserves the most blame but Leno is hardly innocent.
J.W.Crazy
Member
(08-20-2012, 02:03 AM)
#231

Originally Posted by MarauderShields: View Post
How did he have no choice? Leaving was a choice.
He had no choice with regards to your suggestion that he should have never agreed to the whole thing in the first place. He didn't agree. Leno never wanted to leave The Tonight Show but it wasn't his decision to make.

Originally Posted by gabbo: View Post
They couldn't pitch him more than three shows from when Conan's deal was signed to 2009?
I imagine the pitched him many more shows. That wasn't meant to be a list of every offer he got, just the ones I heard about.

Originally Posted by MarauderShields: View Post
When the announcement was made it was made clear he was leaving except he didnt leave.

NBC didnt treat him like he deserved and he was pissed about it but yet he didnt have to take it. He didnt want to repeat the drama years earlier between him and Dave and yet he allowed it to happen.

Leno didnt want the jobs NBC offered and he didnt even really want the 10pm job. He wanted 11:35.

Conan obviously deserves blame and obviously NBC deserves the most blame but Leno is hardly innocent.
You can be all but guaranteed the whole thing with him saying he didn't want another mess and he was handing it over gracefully was NBC's legal team at work. Just like when Conan said he was thrilled to have Jay on at 10. Just like TBS was behind Lopez saying he didn't mind getting pushed back by Conan.

I don't think anyone comes out great in the whole ordeal but it's amazing how well Conan's people have been able to spin it. Never once did I see anyone in the press mention how Conan got the job in the first place. It was always portrayed as Jay willingly stepping down and NBC handing it off to it's rightful heir. Even in this thread you've got people deriding Leno as an evil scumbag who stole Conan's job.
beat
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(08-20-2012, 02:29 AM)

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#232

Originally Posted by J.W.Crazy: View Post
I don't think anyone comes out great in the whole ordeal but it's amazing how well Conan's people have been able to spin it. Never once did I see anyone in the press mention how Conan got the job in the first place. It was always portrayed as Jay willingly stepping down and NBC handing it off to it's rightful heir. Even in this thread you've got people deriding Leno as an evil scumbag who stole Conan's job.
Conan didn't steal the Tonight Show from Jay. He wanted it, but if NBC didn't give it to him, he was willing to walk to ABC or Fox. NBC panicked and came up with the five year plan.

Conversely, Jay tanked at 10 pm*, killing both the affiliates' newscasts and Conan's ratings. So when NBC used that -- and the absurd penalty payment they would have had to pay if they just cut Jay loose -- to justify kicking Conan and the Tonight Show out of its rightful slot: that is Jay being an evil scumbag who stole Conan's job.


* I'm sure he was profitable in that the show cost less than five hours of actual 10 pm primetime entertainment, but the ratings were baaaaad and that made for terrible lead-ins for everything that came after him.
Eric Walton
(08-20-2012, 02:33 AM)

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#233

1. stewart 2. lettermen 3. conan 4. fallon 5. colbert
MarauderShields
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(08-20-2012, 02:36 AM)

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#234

Originally Posted by J.W.Crazy: View Post
He had no choice with regards to your suggestion that he should have never agreed to the whole thing in the first place. He didn't agree. Leno never wanted to leave The Tonight Show but it wasn't his decision to make.

I don't think anyone comes out great in the whole ordeal but it's amazing how well Conan's people have been able to spin it. Never once did I see anyone in the press mention how Conan got the job in the first place. It was always portrayed as Jay willingly stepping down and NBC handing it off to it's rightful heir. Even in this thread you've got people deriding Leno as an evil scumbag who stole Conan's job.
He didnt reject it. He could have told them he was leaving if they took away the show. He didnt have to resign either. He could have forced their hand and made them choose right there. He had choices.

I dont think anyone believes that. Even when Jay announced it on the show he said NBC came to him with that plan.
Technosteve
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(08-20-2012, 02:45 AM)

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#235

i hope stuttering john gets let go, and stern interviews him
J.W.Crazy
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(08-20-2012, 06:08 AM)
#236

Originally Posted by beat: View Post
Conan didn't steal the Tonight Show from Jay. He wanted it, but if NBC didn't give it to him, he was willing to walk to ABC or Fox. NBC panicked and came up with the five year plan.

Conversely, Jay tanked at 10 pm*, killing both the affiliates' newscasts and Conan's ratings. So when NBC used that -- and the absurd penalty payment they would have had to pay if they just cut Jay loose -- to justify kicking Conan and the Tonight Show out of its rightful slot: that is Jay being an evil scumbag who stole Conan's job.


* I'm sure he was profitable in that the show cost less than five hours of actual 10 pm primetime entertainment, but the ratings were baaaaad and that made for terrible lead-ins for everything that came after him.
The bolded is childish. It was no more or less evil than Conan demanding Leno's job. If what Conan did isn't stealing the show than neither is what Jay did.

Of course he could have walked, but why should he? Why is it on him? Why was Conan's initial move never called in to question? What he did was completely unprecedented.
AceOcelot
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(08-20-2012, 06:22 AM)

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#237

I've been on Jimmy Fallon twice now, and I just can't see the whole vibe being switched to the Tonight Show with Jimmy Fallon... It seems... older. Late Night definitely appeals to a younger demographic
FyreWulff
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(08-20-2012, 02:08 PM)

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#238

Originally Posted by AceOcelot: View Post
I've been on Jimmy Fallon twice now, and I just can't see the whole vibe being switched to the Tonight Show with Jimmy Fallon... It seems... older. Late Night definitely appeals to a younger demographic
What were you on for?
MarauderShields
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(08-20-2012, 02:27 PM)

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#239

Originally Posted by J.W.Crazy: View Post

Of course he could have walked, but why should he? Why is it on him? Why was Conan's initial move never called in to question? What he did was completely unprecedented.
Why walk? Because NBC treated him like shit? Because they got rid of him before he was ready to go?

What did Conan do other then accept the deal? NBC orchestrated everything else.

I would also like to mention Leno publicly threw out the idea of him going back to 11:35 long before anyone else mentioned it and then had the nerve to make Andy Richter apologize after Andy got pissed about.
Rad-
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(08-20-2012, 02:55 PM)

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#240

Teehee. NBC and Jay had this coming after the Conan fiasco.
Future
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(08-20-2012, 03:13 PM)
#241

Amazing all the hate jay gets. Jay is not the reason Conan tanked at 11:35.

I thought I remembered at the time of his departure him mentioning he wasn't done with tv or ready to retire. Wasn't Conan one of the reasons he was getting muscled out? Jay would have went to another network, potentially taking his #1 ratings with him, so I thought that's why NBC tried to 10 o'clock thing.

I'm actually curious who would work at 11:35 at all besides letterman and Leno. They got that old fan base locked down, and any change would disrupt it. And the networks aren't ballsy enough to go complete younger demographic since their older base would just disappear. Young demo is also not reliable in that time slot.
beat
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(08-20-2012, 05:16 PM)

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#242

Originally Posted by Future: View Post
Amazing all the hate jay gets. Jay is not the reason Conan tanked at 11:35.
I thought Conan's ratings started falling once Jay at 10's awful lead-ins started killing off the shows following him. (Aside from the usual falloff that follows every new host's initial curiosity bump.)
beat
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(08-20-2012, 05:18 PM)

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#243

Originally Posted by J.W.Crazy: View Post
Of course he could have walked, but why should he? Why is it on him? Why was Conan's initial move never called in to question? What he did was completely unprecedented.
To agree to wait 5 years for a job he wanted rather than walk 5 years earlier? NBC could have done the right thing and cut Conan loose then, instead of stringing him along.

(And "unprecedented"? Jay's people pushed Carson out...)
J.W.Crazy
Member
(08-20-2012, 05:36 PM)
#244

Originally Posted by MarauderShields: View Post
Why walk? Because NBC treated him like shit? Because they got rid of him before he was ready to go?

What did Conan do other then accept the deal? NBC orchestrated everything else.
This is untrue and has been brought up in this thread already. Conan threaten to leave NBC if they didn't give him The Tonight Show. NBC never offered it to him. They wanted to keep Leno at 11:30 until the ratings went bad or he decided to leave but Conan pushed their hand.

They're business men. They were never his friends. Anywhere else he went he was going to be treated the same. Jay was taking offers from everyone, at one point he was going to go to ABC, but in the end NBC gave him the best deal.

Originally Posted by MarauderShields: View Post
I would also like to mention Leno publicly threw out the idea of him going back to 11:35 long before anyone else mentioned it and then had the nerve to make Andy Richter apologize after Andy got pissed about.
This is also untrue. Jay was asked if he'd be willing to go back in an interview. Andy said he should have declined to answer. You're feelings about Conan and Leno seem to be clouding your judgment of the situation.
flippymittens
Banned
(08-20-2012, 05:46 PM)
#245

Originally Posted by Rafa=FedKilla: View Post
So he will be unable to buy one less car this year?
This, less than thirty million dollars, oh no. Does he make twenty eight million now?
http://www.therichest.org/celebnetwo...y-leno-salary/

Is it possible that the studio lowered his salary due to lower ratings and then spun this pay cut into him taking a cut in pay?

Maybe I am being a tad cynical ,but I think he could have saved the whole staff if he wanted to and this was just for publicity.
MarauderShields
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(08-20-2012, 06:14 PM)

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#246

Originally Posted by J.W.Crazy: View Post
This is untrue and has been brought up in this thread already. Conan threaten to leave NBC if they didn't give him The Tonight Show. NBC never offered it to him. They wanted to keep Leno at 11:30 until the ratings went bad or he decided to leave but Conan pushed their hand.

They're business men. They were never his friends. Anywhere else he went he was going to be treated the same. Jay was taking offers from everyone, at one point he was going to go to ABC, but in the end NBC gave him the best deal.

This is also untrue. Jay was asked if he'd be willing to go back in an interview. Andy said he should have declined to answer. You're feelings about Conan and Leno seem to be clouding your judgment of the situation.
He was getting offers and it was made clear he wasnt going to stay at 12:30. NBC came up with the plan. Conan wasnt campaigning for the job and hiding in closets. So what did Conan do wrong? Conan might have forced their hand but thats exactly what Leno should have done.

Why did he resign? He hated what they were doing. Why did he accept it so easily? Then afterward would he sign again to do a show that he really wasnt 100% behind? The answer to that is because he couldnt handle being off the air for a couple of months. Which again just makes me wonder why he agreed to give up the show in the first place.

This is true he was asked the question. He could have been classy with his response but nope. He also could have not thrown a bitch fit when Andy said it wasnt a classy response but nope. He also could have not lied to Andy about smoothing it over with Conan about how he responded but nope.
Parch
Member
(08-20-2012, 06:18 PM)

Parch's Avatar
#247

It's nothing but Letterman + Ferguson for me.

The rest put me to sleep.
J.W.Crazy
Member
(08-20-2012, 06:39 PM)
#248

Originally Posted by beat: View Post
To agree to wait 5 years for a job he wanted rather than walk 5 years earlier? NBC could have done the right thing and cut Conan loose then, instead of stringing him along.

(And "unprecedented"? Jay's people pushed Carson out...)
Unprecedented in that there's no history in the host of Late Night getting The Tonight Show. Conan seemingly had a sense of entitlement, he believed he deserved it, but there was no valid reason for him to expect it.

Do you have any proof of that beyond Bill Carter's book and the movie? They may be non-fiction but they're not completely true. The news story Jay's manager supposedly planted, that would become the catalyst for Carson retiring, was the subject of a lawsuit which Carter settled out of court. NBC had been pushing Johnny to retire for years at that point, since before Jay was even considered a viable replacement, because while he was still number one his ratings were slipping and he was getting too old to keep up with the shows schedule. He'd had guest host filling in on a regular basis for at least a decade at that point. Jay was permanent guest host for 5 years.

Carson's "retirement" was the perfect storm of him showing up less and less, Jay and Letterman both getting offers from other networks, and younger talk show hosts like Arsenio Hall rising in popularity. There's not much similarity with Jay's departure. He had no competition and at the time it was announced he'd only missed one show as part of a publicity stunt with Katie Couric. Obviously Conan was getting offers from other networks but you can bet Letterman didn't say a word to NBC about taking The Tonight Show from Carson. His position was always to wait until Johnny left of his own accord.

Originally Posted by MarauderShields: View Post
He was getting offers and it was made clear he wasnt going to stay at 12:30. NBC came up with the plan. Conan wasnt campaigning for the job and hiding in closets. So what did Conan do wrong? Conan might have forced their hand but thats exactly what Leno should have done.
Again, this is patently untrue. Conan had been asking for the job for quite awhile. NBC finally relented when other networks started offering him a better deal.

Originally Posted by MarauderShields: View Post
Why did he resign? He hated what they were doing. Why did he accept it so easily? Then afterward would he sign again to do a show that he really wasnt 100% behind? The answer to that is because he couldnt handle being off the air for a couple of months. Which again just makes me wonder why he agreed to give up the show in the first place.
Yet again, he didn't agree to anything. His contract was up. The choice to leave The Tonight Show was not his to make. If you think he just walked away with out a fight you're mistaken but at that point NBC already had a contract with Conan and not much could be done.

Just the same as he had a contract with NBC they had a contract with him. If he just quit when the announcement was made there would be legal repercussions. You can't just walk away when someone is paying you tens of millions of dollars.

Originally Posted by MarauderShields: View Post
This is true he was asked the question. He could have been classy with his response but nope. He also could have not thrown a bitch fit when Andy said it wasnt a classy response but nope. He also could have not lied to Andy about smoothing it over with Conan about how he responded but nope.
I absolutely agree with you here but I can also understand him being legitimately upset with Conan.

What is the bolded in reference to?
spindashing
Ku Klux Kawaii
(08-20-2012, 06:41 PM)

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#249

Who is Stuttering John and how is he involved with Leno?

Edit: Nevermind, sorry.
beat
Member
(08-20-2012, 06:48 PM)

beat's Avatar
#250

Originally Posted by J.W.Crazy: View Post
Unprecedented in that there's no history in the host of Late Night getting The Tonight Show. Conan seemingly had a sense of entitlement, he believed he deserved it, but there was no valid reason for him to expect it.
No valid reason besides other networks thinking Conan was viable at 11:30.


Quote:
The news story Jay's manager supposedly planted, that would become the catalyst for Carson retiring, was the subject of a lawsuit which Carter settled out of court
Yeah, about that:
Quote:
The most surprising news about Helen Kushnick's lawsuit against Bill Carter and his latenight book from Hyperion, "Late Shift," is that Ron Berg, her usual attorney, isn't pressing the case. Dish hears that when Kushnick told Berg she wanted to sue for libel over the author's claim that she planted a N.Y. Post report that Leno would replace Johnny Carson, Berg told her he couldn't make the case. It seems he was under the impression she told him it did happen.

She then fired him and got attorney Barry Langberg to rep her.

Berg declined to comment, while Langberg said because Berg isn't a libel lawyer he wouldn't represent Kushnick in this case anyway.
http://www.variety.com/article/VR120352?refCatId=3

Quote:
If you think he just walked away with out a fight you're mistaken but at that point NBC already had a contract with Conan and not much could be done.
Why didn't he just push for a Leno show at 11:30 .... like he did anyways after he killed NBC at 10?