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Member
(08-19-2012, 03:44 AM)
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#201
Leno really fucked over NBC for 3+ years by doing that 10pm slot
That would mean 5 hours of Prime-time television removed, for a sub-par comedy show That is how CBS and ABC stole away NBC's audience People wanted the Law & Order SVU or Drama @10pm, they didn't get that Also NBC had so many shows, not enough timeslots, that it was re-arranging them all over the place Once Leno left the 10pm slot, most shows lost viewers due to people being hooked to other channels shows, so NBC went ban-hammer on them Then you had so many empty slots, NBC couldn't fill them Remember XL version of 30 Rock and The Office just to kill time CBS and ABC facilitated that and reaped the rewards from NBC's bungle There's a reason Comcast bought NBC, due to the Leno debacle, the price for it became hella cheaper |
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White WR Defense Force™
(08-19-2012, 03:44 AM)
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#202
Can't believe we're discussing (so soon) a future with Jimmy Fallon as the host of the Tonight Show. I remember his start being very weak, but he's obviously found his niche now, I like the show.
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bow down to the
Kings in Raider hats (08-19-2012, 03:49 AM)
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#203
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Member
(08-19-2012, 04:43 AM)
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#204
You should read that new book about it, NBC screwed both Jay and Conan at different points |
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wears the band's shirts to the band's concerts
can't comprehend the origin of terms (08-19-2012, 04:59 AM)
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#205
I really wish NBC had just let Leno walk after Conan took over. I kinda have my doubts that he really would have found a place with another network, and been able to rebuild his audience.
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Member
(08-19-2012, 05:28 AM)
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#207
I think it's important to point out from the article that the cuts have nothing to do with the performance of the show. Comcast seems to be actively finding places they could cut. If low-budget is the goal for NBC, I foresee even more reality shows debacles in the near future.
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Member
(08-19-2012, 06:59 AM)
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#208
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Member
(08-19-2012, 07:09 AM)
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#209
It's not exactly a new story though. I mean Conan was quite bad the first few years in Late Night and was constantly under a cancellation threat.
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Member
(08-19-2012, 11:40 AM)
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#213
So why did NBC go from having some great sitcoms and a late night show that ruled to the present?
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I appreciate the early part of The Office and 30 Rock but they have been on too long. I'm surprised Zucker lasted 10 years. GE really wasn't paying attention. |
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Member
(08-19-2012, 07:26 PM)
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#214
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Member
(08-19-2012, 08:02 PM)
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#215
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Member
(08-19-2012, 08:11 PM)
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#217
After reading the books on the two late night wars, it really seems to come down to Leno's workaholic tendencies. He'll do whatever it takes for the job, and he'll tell whatever bullshit jokes to appeal to his audience of boring old people. But as far as rich people go, he's a class act, he cares about his people, and in the end, they shouldn't have promised his job away in the first place.
It's too bad the prime time thing didn't work. I wasn't going to watch it anyway, and with Fallon surprising everybody and turning out a good show night in night out, Conan and him would have been a great long-term combo. In fact, every single late night host right now (especially if we include the cable guys like Stewart and Colbert) is watchable... Except for Leno. It's just a shitty lead-in for Fallon's show.
Last edited by animlboogy; 08-19-2012 at 08:15 PM.
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Member
(08-19-2012, 08:34 PM)
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#218
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Member
(08-19-2012, 08:55 PM)
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#219
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Member
(08-19-2012, 09:18 PM)
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#220
In terms of agreeing to it in the first place he had no choice. His contract for The Tonight Show was up and they weren't going to re-sign him. It's not the first time they've done it either. Steve Allen and Jack Paar were both pushed out. |
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Member
(08-19-2012, 09:22 PM)
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#221
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Member
(08-19-2012, 09:33 PM)
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#222
I normally would say that Comcast should go after Craig Ferguson to replace Leno, since he's far and away the best late night talk show host on the major broadcast networks, but I think Craig works best after midnight.
Plus, I don't think the typical Tonight Show audience would understand Ferguson's comedy, especially since they apparently couldn't even grasp Conan's. The cold open puppets would confuse the hell out of them. |
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bow down to the
Kings in Raider hats (08-19-2012, 09:38 PM)
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#223
They were stuck because Leno had offers from Fox and ABC to do a regular 11:30pm talk show with them. They had to offer him a ton of money to basically keep doing his old show with his old staff at 10pm because they were afraid of someone else getting him. IT's not like they could offer Jay some little weekly show and have him happily ride off into the sunset when the competition was after him.
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Member
(08-19-2012, 09:44 PM)
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#224
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bow down to the
Kings in Raider hats (08-19-2012, 09:51 PM)
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#225
His choice was staying at NBC, with his same staff and producers, and doing his show at 10pm, or going to Fox or ABC with an all new network, new staff, ect...and doing a late night show from scratch. He chose familiarity.
Conan had a choice too. He didn't have to stay at NBC. |
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Member
(08-19-2012, 09:58 PM)
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#227
Conan made a bad deal too. He shouldnt have trusted NBC and Leno. |
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bow down to the
Kings in Raider hats (08-19-2012, 10:25 PM)
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#228
What did Leno do? He took the 10pm job. NBC saw it was failing and essentially took the option that was going to cost them the least amount of money, which was to put Leno back at 11:30pm and move Conan back. Blame Conan's stupid lawyers for not having time slot guarantee in his contract. Leno didn't steal anything from Conan.
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Member
(08-19-2012, 11:01 PM)
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#230
NBC didnt treat him like he deserved and he was pissed about it but yet he didnt have to take it. He didnt want to repeat the drama years earlier between him and Dave and yet he allowed it to happen. Leno didnt want the jobs NBC offered and he didnt even really want the 10pm job. He wanted 11:35. Conan obviously deserves blame and obviously NBC deserves the most blame but Leno is hardly innocent. |
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Member
(08-20-2012, 02:03 AM)
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#231
He had no choice with regards to your suggestion that he should have never agreed to the whole thing in the first place. He didn't agree. Leno never wanted to leave The Tonight Show but it wasn't his decision to make.
I don't think anyone comes out great in the whole ordeal but it's amazing how well Conan's people have been able to spin it. Never once did I see anyone in the press mention how Conan got the job in the first place. It was always portrayed as Jay willingly stepping down and NBC handing it off to it's rightful heir. Even in this thread you've got people deriding Leno as an evil scumbag who stole Conan's job. |
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Member
(08-20-2012, 02:29 AM)
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#232
Conversely, Jay tanked at 10 pm*, killing both the affiliates' newscasts and Conan's ratings. So when NBC used that -- and the absurd penalty payment they would have had to pay if they just cut Jay loose -- to justify kicking Conan and the Tonight Show out of its rightful slot: that is Jay being an evil scumbag who stole Conan's job. * I'm sure he was profitable in that the show cost less than five hours of actual 10 pm primetime entertainment, but the ratings were baaaaad and that made for terrible lead-ins for everything that came after him. |
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White WR Defense Force™
(08-20-2012, 02:33 AM)
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#233
1. stewart 2. lettermen 3. conan 4. fallon 5. colbert
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Member
(08-20-2012, 02:36 AM)
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#234
I dont think anyone believes that. Even when Jay announced it on the show he said NBC came to him with that plan. |
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Member
(08-20-2012, 06:08 AM)
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#236
Of course he could have walked, but why should he? Why is it on him? Why was Conan's initial move never called in to question? What he did was completely unprecedented. |
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Member
(08-20-2012, 02:27 PM)
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#239
What did Conan do other then accept the deal? NBC orchestrated everything else. I would also like to mention Leno publicly threw out the idea of him going back to 11:35 long before anyone else mentioned it and then had the nerve to make Andy Richter apologize after Andy got pissed about. |
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Member
(08-20-2012, 03:13 PM)
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#241
Amazing all the hate jay gets. Jay is not the reason Conan tanked at 11:35.
I thought I remembered at the time of his departure him mentioning he wasn't done with tv or ready to retire. Wasn't Conan one of the reasons he was getting muscled out? Jay would have went to another network, potentially taking his #1 ratings with him, so I thought that's why NBC tried to 10 o'clock thing. I'm actually curious who would work at 11:35 at all besides letterman and Leno. They got that old fan base locked down, and any change would disrupt it. And the networks aren't ballsy enough to go complete younger demographic since their older base would just disappear. Young demo is also not reliable in that time slot. |
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Member
(08-20-2012, 05:16 PM)
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#242
I thought Conan's ratings started falling once Jay at 10's awful lead-ins started killing off the shows following him. (Aside from the usual falloff that follows every new host's initial curiosity bump.)
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Member
(08-20-2012, 05:18 PM)
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#243
(And "unprecedented"? Jay's people pushed Carson out...) |
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Member
(08-20-2012, 05:36 PM)
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#244
They're business men. They were never his friends. Anywhere else he went he was going to be treated the same. Jay was taking offers from everyone, at one point he was going to go to ABC, but in the end NBC gave him the best deal. This is also untrue. Jay was asked if he'd be willing to go back in an interview. Andy said he should have declined to answer. You're feelings about Conan and Leno seem to be clouding your judgment of the situation. |
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Banned
(08-20-2012, 05:46 PM)
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#245
This, less than thirty million dollars, oh no. Does he make twenty eight million now?
http://www.therichest.org/celebnetwo...y-leno-salary/ Is it possible that the studio lowered his salary due to lower ratings and then spun this pay cut into him taking a cut in pay? Maybe I am being a tad cynical ,but I think he could have saved the whole staff if he wanted to and this was just for publicity. |
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Member
(08-20-2012, 06:14 PM)
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#246
Why did he resign? He hated what they were doing. Why did he accept it so easily? Then afterward would he sign again to do a show that he really wasnt 100% behind? The answer to that is because he couldnt handle being off the air for a couple of months. Which again just makes me wonder why he agreed to give up the show in the first place. This is true he was asked the question. He could have been classy with his response but nope. He also could have not thrown a bitch fit when Andy said it wasnt a classy response but nope. He also could have not lied to Andy about smoothing it over with Conan about how he responded but nope. |
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Member
(08-20-2012, 06:39 PM)
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#248
Do you have any proof of that beyond Bill Carter's book and the movie? They may be non-fiction but they're not completely true. The news story Jay's manager supposedly planted, that would become the catalyst for Carson retiring, was the subject of a lawsuit which Carter settled out of court. NBC had been pushing Johnny to retire for years at that point, since before Jay was even considered a viable replacement, because while he was still number one his ratings were slipping and he was getting too old to keep up with the shows schedule. He'd had guest host filling in on a regular basis for at least a decade at that point. Jay was permanent guest host for 5 years. Carson's "retirement" was the perfect storm of him showing up less and less, Jay and Letterman both getting offers from other networks, and younger talk show hosts like Arsenio Hall rising in popularity. There's not much similarity with Jay's departure. He had no competition and at the time it was announced he'd only missed one show as part of a publicity stunt with Katie Couric. Obviously Conan was getting offers from other networks but you can bet Letterman didn't say a word to NBC about taking The Tonight Show from Carson. His position was always to wait until Johnny left of his own accord.
Just the same as he had a contract with NBC they had a contract with him. If he just quit when the announcement was made there would be legal repercussions. You can't just walk away when someone is paying you tens of millions of dollars.
What is the bolded in reference to? |
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Member
(08-20-2012, 06:48 PM)
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#250
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