[Jason Raize '75 - '04]

Then I hope we revert to my suggested stance of "not our fucking problem".

What kind of precedence do you think it will set if the British go into that embassy and arrest a man who is under diplomatic immunity? What will it mean for British embassies around the world? Or its relations with Latin America? If there were no problems, they'd have gone in there already

[SteveWD40]

What kind of precedence do you think it will set if the British go into that embassy and arrest a man who is under diplomatic immunity? What will it mean for British embassies around the world? Or its relations with Latin America? If there were no problems, they'd have gone in there already

That's what I just said is it not? That we back the fuck off and tell the Swedish they can breach IL if they like.

Not our problem = we are not obliged to do this as we don't even want the guy, if he sets foot outside we will arrest him.

[Jason Raize '75 - '04]

That's what I just said is it not? That we back the fuck off and tell the Swedish they can breach IL if they like. Not our problem = we are not obliged to do this as we don't even want the guy, if he sets foot outside we will arrest him.

Sorry misread

[jaxword]

Pretty sure Assange is just doing anything he can to stay in the media spotlight because:
1. He is quite obviously obsessed with fame and ego.
2. It's a form of protection since if the world is watching there's less likelihood of him just...quietly vanishing.

[SteveWD40]

Ah no drama.

I think our relations with South America are strained enough as it is since Argentina rattled their rusty, broken saber.

Pretty sure Assange is just doing anything he can to stay in the media spotlight because: 1. He is quite obviously obsessed with fame and ego. 2. It's a form of protection since if the world is watching there's less likelihood of him just...quietly vanishing.

Oh indeed, he loves the attention as he is a docche, but it must also feel like being in a crowded place when you are being followed "I am safe as long as people can see me".

[raining]

Pretty sure Assange is just doing anything he can to stay in the media spotlight because: 1. He is quite obviously obsessed with fame and ego. 2. It's a form of protection since if the world is watching there's less likelihood of him just...quietly vanishing.

More importantly, I'd say he feels there's a significant chance of being convicted if he goes to Sweden, and being seen as a rapist will ruin his reputation and credibility. By bringing up these conspiracy theories he can justify to his supporters why he shouldn't have to face the courts.

[Computer]

Is there a live video stream covering what's happening around the embassyN

[Maxrunner]

Are all pple here calling him a douche American???That would explain a lot...

[SteveWD40]

Are all pple here calling him a douche American???That would explain a lot...

Nope.

[blazeuk]

The criticism towards the British attitude is based on their threat to storm the embassy which suggests they are more politically, than legally, motivated

It was a stupid decision to tell them they could enter the building if they wanted to, since there wasn't much need to (even if it is the truth). They can simply wait it out like they're doing now. The government seem to be somewhat trying to play it down now though, I don't think there was ever really a possibility of them entering the Ecuadorian embassy.

The problem now is, the government have now made another side show of it and given Ecuador ammunition to have a pop at Britain as the "bad guys" and we all know there are certain other south american countries who love to join in with that sort of thing.

[SteveWD40]

The problem now is, the government have now made another side show of it and given Ecuador ammunition to have a pop at Britain as the "bad guys" and we all know there are certain other south american countries who love to join in with that sort of thing.

Exactly, I am surprised Argentina haven't welcomed him with open arms as well, in fact I am expecting Sean Penn to turn up on the Thames in a boat and sink in a "rescue attempt" at some point.

[Gowans]

Is there a live video stream covering what's happening around the embassyN

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-19310783

[Visualante2]

I think many of his supporters are happy to see him questioned about the alleged rape in Sweden. I think even Assange himself is.

The question whether it be just that, is the concern. Of course there are no legal obligations from Sweden or the UK to ensure safety against other future legal actions. But if they really cared about the matter at hand they'd suck it up and investigate Assange in a politically safe environment. As all investigations should be.

[Darklord]

They want to charge him; they just cannot do so without questioning him first.

He said he is willing to be questioned. Send a guy over, set a webcam, something that can have him and them speaking and they refuse.

[Mecha_Infantry]

I think many of his supporters are happy to see him questioned about the alleged rape in Sweden. I think even Assange himself is. The question whether it be just that, is the concern. Of course there are no legal obligations from Sweden or the UK to ensure safety against other future legal actions. But if they really cared about the matter at hand they'd suck it up and investigate Assange in a politically safe environment. As all investigations should be.

He has said this many a time, even if he was to be questioned in the UK by Swedish police he and Equador said it will be fine

But the Swedes refused. Is there an Equador embassy in Sweden?!

[SteveWD40]

Maybe the Swedes don't think he deserves special treatment?

[Computer]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-19310783

Thanks

[Darklord]

Maybe the Swedes don't think he deserves special treatment?

This IS special treatment. When the hell have you ever heard of a country fighting SO hard to question a man over not using a condom to the point where countries are threatening to raid an embassy? It's insane.

[SteveWD40]

This IS special treatment. When the hell have you ever heard of a country fighting SO hard to question a man over not using a condom to the point where countries are threatening to raid an embassy? It's insane.

Well when you put it like that...

[Visualante2]

Wait, not using a condom. I thought he was up for rape? Since when has condom use been a condition of rape?

[Messypandas]

Wait, not using a condom. I thought he was up for rape? Since when has condom use been a condition of rape?

since Sweden

[dalin80]

Wait, not using a condom. I thought he was up for rape? Since when has condom use been a condition of rape?

Swedish law, there are a hell of a lot of inconsistencies and concerns about this whole case, the behaviour of the prime detective would have been enough to get the case thrown out on its own over here. Also the use of a interpol(?) arrest warrant normally the reserve for murderers etc. in trying to get hold of the guy who is currently only wanted for question.

A lot of dodgy stuff going on from the behaviour of the 'victims' on.

[raining]

I think many of his supporters are happy to see him questioned about the alleged rape in Sweden. I think even Assange himself is. The question whether it be just that, is the concern. Of course there are no legal obligations from Sweden or the UK to ensure safety against other future legal actions. But if they really cared about the matter at hand they'd suck it up and investigate Assange in a politically safe environment. As all investigations should be.

They are legally unable to make any assurances. He also does not deserve any special treatment.

Wait, not using a condom. I thought he was up for rape? Since when has condom use been a condition of rape?

Since the woman involved requested that a condom be used, which is just one of several charges.

Swedish law, there are a hell of a lot of inconsistencies and concerns about this whole case, the behaviour of the prime detective would have been enough to get the case thrown out on its own over here. Also the use of a interpol(?) arrest warrant normally the reserve for murderers etc. in trying to get hold of the guy who is currently only wanted for question. A lot of dodgy stuff going on from the behaviour of the 'victims' on.

European arrest warrant, and it is used for more than just murderers. Rapists included. He is not only wanted for questioning; he is wanted for questioning in order to charge him (as required by Swedish law).

[Visualante2]

Since the woman involved requested that a condom be used, which is just one of several charges.

To me that just reads as he raped her.

They are legally unable to make any assurances. He also does not deserve any special treatment.

Yeah but a government can hide behind this so easily. I appreciate the law on this stuff is incredibly complex but it's their fucking country. They should be able to assure Assange of safe passage out of Sweden if he is found to be innocent. How long can this investigation realistically take? There's special treatment, and simply laying your cards on the table which Sweden don't appear to be willing to do. But I expect I have an overly simplistic point of view here. The UK is choosing what laws they want to follow and ignore, I'm sure Sweden is too.

[Computer]

"This broadcast has now ended"

Well that was quick.

[Darklord]

To me that just reads as he raped her.

Both women boasted of their of their respective celebrity conquests on internet posts and mobile phones texts after the intimacy they would now see him destroyed for. “Ardin hosted a party in Assange’s honour at her flat after the ‘crime’ and tweeted to her followers that she was with the “the world’s coolest smartest people, it’s amazing!” “Ardin has sought unsuccessfully to delete these and thereby destroy evidence of Assange’s innocence. She has published on the internet a guide on how to get revenge on cheating boyfriends. “Their sms texts to each other show a plan to contact the Swedish newspaper Expressen before hand in order to maximise the damage to Assange. “They belong to the same political group and attended a public lecture given by Assange and organised by them. “The exact content of Sophia Wilén’s mobile phone texts is not yet known but their bragging and generally positive content about Assange has been confirmed by Swedish prosecutors. “The consent of both women to sex with Assange has been confirmed by prosecutors. Niether Wilén’s nor Ardin’s texts complain of rape.”

Not even the women involved are claiming rape.

[raining]

Yeah but a government can hide behind this so easily. I appreciate the law on this stuff is incredibly complex but it's their fucking country. They should be able to assure Assange of safe passage out of Sweden if he is found to be innocent. How long can this investigation realistically take? There's special treatment, and simply laying your cards on the table which Sweden don't appear to be willing to do. But I expect I have an overly simplistic point of view here. The UK is choosing what laws they want to follow and ignore, I'm sure Sweden is too.

Any decision on extradition will first go through the legal system, and a government cannot make any assurances as to what way a court will rule.

[jakershaker]

By Swedish law politicians actually make final decision in extradition cases. Supreme court decides if it's legal to extradite person X and they report to gov. but in the end gov. makes the decision if the person will be extradited, not the court. If Supreme court says it's illegal to extradite person X then the Gov. can't extradite person in question.

They can't decide before a request is made and the Supreme Court has judged though. Sorry if I was unclear. Your explanation was better :-)

[Bo-Locks]

Not even the women involved are claiming rape.

The charges:

The EAW sets out four offences: “1. Unlawful coercion - On 13-14 August 2010, in the home of the injured party [AA] in Stockholm, Assange, by using violence, forced the injured party to endure his restricting her freedom of movement. The violence consisted in a firm hold of the injured party’s arms and a forceful spreading of her legs whilst lying on top of her and with his body weight preventing her from moving or shifting. 2.Sexual molestation - On 13-14 August 2010, in the home of the injured party [AA] in Stockholm, Assange deliberately molested the injured party by acting in a manner designed to violate her sexual integrity. Assange, who was aware that it was the expressed wish of the injured party and a prerequisite of sexual intercourse that a condom be used, consummated unprotected sexual intercourse with her without her knowledge. 3.Sexual molestation - On 18 August 2010 or on any of the days before or after that date, in the home of the injured party [AA] in Stockholm, Assange deliberately molested the injured party by acting in a manner designed to violate her sexual integrity i.e. lying next to her and pressing his naked, erect penis to her body. 4.Rape - On 17 August 2010, in the home of the injured party [SW] in Enköping, Assange deliberately consummated sexual intercourse with her by improperly exploiting that she, due to sleep, was in a helpless state. It is an aggravating circumstance that Assange, who was aware that it was the expressed wish of the injured party and a prerequisite of sexual intercourse that a condom be used, still consummated unprotected sexual intercourse with her. The sexual act was designed to violate the injured party’s sexual integrity.”

http://www.judiciary.gov.uk/Resource...ge-summary.pdf

If he committed these acts in England, then he would also have been charged. And yes, he is being charged with rape.

He cannot be questioned by video link as the Swedes are about to formally charge Assange. He needs to be in Sweden so that the wheels of the Swedish justice system can begin to move again.

[Joni]

This IS special treatment. When the hell have you ever heard of a country fighting SO hard to question a man over not using a condom to the point where countries are threatening to raid an embassy? It's insane.

When Assange appeared before a London court following his arrest on Tuesday, Gemma Lindfield, representing the Swedish authorities, told the judge that Assange was wanted in connection with four allegations made by two women. She told the court the first complainant, identified only as Miss A, said she was victim of "unlawful coercion" on the night of August 14 this year in Stockholm. The court heard Assange is accused of using his body weight to hold her down in a sexual manner. The second charge alleged Assange "sexually molested" Miss A by having sex with her without a condom when it was her "express wish" one should be used. The third charge claimed Assange "deliberately molested" Miss A on August 18 "in a way designed to violate her sexual integrity". The fourth charge accused Assange of having sex with a second woman, Miss W, on August 17 without a condom while she was asleep at her Stockholm home.

Condlom-less sex while she was asleep. I don't think the lack of a condom is the problem there.
http://www.swedishwire.com/politics/...julian-assange

[Kenshin001]

Not even the women involved are claiming rape.

The words you posted were from a barrister who acted for Assange. He may be a little biased in his interpretation of events and the law.

[Visualante2]

Any decision on extradition will first go through the legal system, and a government cannot make any assurances as to what way a court will rule.

There should be some sort of time limit on making such cases. If they're waiting for him to come into the country before revealing a case against him that's basically entrapment.

[Wazzim]

What kind of precedence do you think it will set if the British go into that embassy and arrest a man who is under diplomatic immunity? What will it mean for British embassies around the world? Or its relations with Latin America? If there were no problems, they'd have gone in there already

Pretty sure (political) Latin America would explode if they raided the embassy.

[raining]

There should be some sort of time limit on making such cases. If they're waiting for him to come into the country before revealing a case against him that's basically entrapment.

That is not what entrapment means. More importantly, there has been no indication that such a request has been made, so talking as if a case exists is pointless.

[Computer]

It begins

http://reuters.livestation.com/demo
***************/on-air/assange-statement-embassy-ecuador/

[jaxword]

Condlom-less sex while she was asleep. I don't think the lack of a condom is the problem there. http://www.swedishwire.com/politics/...julian-assange

It seems the rape charge is legitimate under Swedish law.

However, and let's just be honest--do you really think there'd be THIS much of an international manhunt for an alleged rapist? You'd think he's an international mass murdering terrorist with the amount of resources and time the various world governments are putting into arresting this guy.

Yes, rape is a terrible crime and personally I think it should be punished as harshly as possible.

However, this simply isn't done normally. Not every rapist gets an INTERNATIONAL MANHUNT on him. In fact, has any other?

[Computer]

Assange on the front page of Interpol: http://interpol.int/

[Lazy Jones]

Julian´s favorite song;
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fPsMR7HvuZM

[Dascu]

It seems the rape charge is legitimate under Swedish law. However, and let's just be honest--do you really think there'd be THIS much of an international manhunt for an alleged rapist? You'd think he's an international mass murdering terrorist with the amount of resources and time the various world governments are putting into arresting this guy. Yes, rape is a terrible crime and personally I think it should be punished as harshly as possible. However, this simply isn't done normally. Not every rapist gets an INTERNATIONAL MANHUNT on him. In fact, has any other?

International manhunt? He fledwent to the UK and now the UK can't execute the legal arrest warrant and extradition request because he's holed up in the embassy.

It's an ordinary extradition procedure that's been made extraordinary because of Assange's own (illegal) acts and the publicity around it.

[raining]

It seems the rape charge is legitimate under Swedish law. However, and let's just be honest--do you really think there'd be THIS much of an international manhunt for an alleged rapist? You'd think he's an international mass murdering terrorist with the amount of resources and time the various world governments are putting into arresting this guy. Yes, rape is a terrible crime and personally I think it should be punished as harshly as possible. However, this simply isn't done normally. Not every rapist gets an INTERNATIONAL MANHUNT on him. In fact, has any other?

People less public than him are presumably harder to track. Considering how open he was about his whereabouts while still being active in public, how could law enforcement justify ignoring him?

[reptilescorpio]

International manhunt? He fled to the UK and now the UK can't execute the legal arrest warrant and extradition request because he's holed up in the embassy. It's an ordinary extradition procedure that's been made extraordinary because of Assange's own (illegal) acts and the publicity around it.

I thought Sweden said he could go to the UK for his talk?

[jaxword]

International manhunt? He fled to the UK and now the UK can't execute the legal arrest warrant and extradition request because he's holed up in the embassy. It's an ordinary extradition procedure that's been made extraordinary because of Assange's own (illegal) acts and the publicity around it.

It's across multiple countries and involves multiple country laws, so yeah, international.

[Zaraki_Kenpachi]

He said he is willing to be questioned. Send a guy over, set a webcam, something that can have him and them speaking and they refuse.

Because that's not how it works? What other police meets you at your home for questioning? Or over a webcam? It's not the procedure when you question someone about committing a crime. Ya, just hop on skype so we can talk to you about this pending rape case...

[Dascu]

It's across multiple countries and involves multiple country laws, so yeah, international.

However, this simply isn't done normally. Not every rapist gets an INTERNATIONAL MANHUNT on him. In fact, has any other?

An extradition is by definition an international "manhunt". My point is, that if you take away all this extra media hubbub, it's basically just a standard extradition procedure like any other. There's been plenty of those for a variety of crimes, including rape. The extra publicity and Assange's curious act of fleeing into an embassy are making this appear a lot more spectacular than it really is.

[Mr Cola]

this is riveting to watch, i really wish it wasnt happening where i live but still, its a watermark moment in history, interesting to be alive to see it unfold. One thing this case really does is make me so god damn happy that im not famous, known on any level and keep a small circle. I cant imagine not being able to walk outside in the sun, go to a shop or the cinema and remain undisturbed.

[Darklord]

The words you posted were from a barrister who acted for Assange. He may be a little biased in his interpretation of events and the law.

I think everything is biased against Assange. He might be a jerk or a piece of shit but the simple fact is that all these things popped up right around the time he humiliated many governments including America. And they were PISSED. They want his blood and will boss and bully countries to get him to them. Look at that AWFUL New York Times piece where they criticize him for not flushing a toilet. It sounds like someone out of the Onion. Not to mention several media places wanting him killed. And if you think the American government wouldn't be as hateful as that then look at Bradly Manning. Tortured, locked away, god knows what has been done to him.

Maybe he did rape, maybe he didn't but to raid an embassy over it? To break international law? To work so hard and tirelessly to bring him in, not to send him to jail, not to send him to court over charges, but to QUESTION him? It's a fucking joke. He isn't running from being questioned, he's running from being sent to America and god know what they'll do to him.

[raining]

I think everything is biased against Assange. He might be a jerk or a piece of shit but the simple fact is that all these things popped up right around the time he humiliated many governments including America. And they were PISSED. They want his blood and will boss and bully countries to get him to them. Look at that AWFUL New York Times piece where they criticize him for not flushing a toilet. It sounds like someone out of the Onion. Not to mention several media places wanting him killed. And if you think the American government wouldn't be as hateful as that then look at Bradly Manning. Tortured, locked away, god knows what has been done to him. Maybe he did rape, maybe he didn't but to raid an embassy over it? To break international law? To work so hard and tirelessly to bring him in, not to send him to jail, not to send him to court over charges, but to QUESTION him? It's a fucking joke. He isn't running from being questioned, he's running from being sent to America and god know what they'll do to him.

He is not merely wanted for questioning, that is just a step Sweden has to do first in order to charge him.

Furthermore, extraditing him from the UK would be easier, as being extradited from Sweden while there due to an extradition request would require the UK's consent to extradite him too. He is running from rape charges.

[Dascu]

I think everything is biased against Assange. He might be a jerk or a piece of shit but the simple fact is that all these things popped up right around the time he humiliated many governments including America. And they were PISSED. They want his blood and will boss and bully countries to get him to them. Look at that AWFUL New York Times piece where they criticize him for not flushing a toilet. It sounds like someone out of the Onion. Not to mention several media places wanting him killed. And if you think the American government wouldn't be as hateful as that then look at Bradly Manning. Tortured, locked away, god knows what has been done to him. Maybe he did rape, maybe he didn't but to raid an embassy over it? To break international law? To work so hard and tirelessly to bring him in, not to send him to jail, not to send him to court over charges, but to QUESTION him? It's a fucking joke. He isn't running from being questioned, he's running from being sent to America and god know what they'll do to him.

Entering an embassy without consent is not illegal if it is necessitated by something like the arrest of (suspected) criminal. An embassy are only inviolable insofar it is being used for diplomatic purposes. Harboring a suspect is not one of those.

Also, if he's worried about being prosecuted in the USA for something that could be punished by death or torture, then he could fight an extradition request from the USA before the European Court of Human Rights (and probably win).

[Bo-Locks]

I never knew that GAF had so many rape apologists.

[reptilescorpio]

I never knew that GAF had so many rape apologists.

Aledged rape apologists you mean.