[Gbraga]

It's ok to be hyped for any game you want. You're allowed to have your own opinion. If you're asking if most people are going to be hyped, I suspect there's going to be an awful lot of skepticism, and the preview threads are going to post after post of people piling on the series regardless of what is shown.

It was more like "does this has a chance to be good?"

I actually enjoyed Dragon Age II, it was a decent game, just didn't come close to Origins' awesomeness, and I'd like something more than decent... But for some reason, even after II, I got hyped just for seeing the logo lol

[Patryn]

It was more like "does this has a chance to be good?" I actually enjoyed Dragon Age II, it was a decent game, just didn't come close to Origins' awesomeness, and I'd like something more than decent... But for some reason, even after II, I got hyped just for seeing the logo lol

If you liked DA2, you'll probably like DA3, as it sounds like just an evolved DA2.

[Gbraga]

If you liked DA2, you'll probably like DA3, as it sounds like just an evolved DA2.

I'll set my expectations accordingly then, thanks.

[yamo]

Looking forward to the OT already!

[Jac_Solar]

"Discover a whole realm rendered in stunning detail with updated graphics and a new visual style."

What? I realise that back-of-the-box are usually/always exaggerated claims, but this is blatantly untrue. You're in a single city for the entire game, along with some slight adventuring outside of town.

Most, if not all dungeons were pretty much identical; they were very, very small, extremely linear, and shared most, if not all of the textures/modelling details -- there were about 2-3 "unique" types -- it was more blatant than the dungeons in The Elder Scrolls series I think, but considerably smaller and far, far fewer.

[Rodney McKay]

But the combat system was garbage. You just fight hordes of humans or darkspaws that act like humans over and over, there was no strategy, no sense of progression whatsoever (since you could get the strongest spells like 4 levels in) no rare encounters... how they went from BG2 exceptional encounter design to this, i really don't know.

See, I really don't get where this is coming from. Even just playing the game on normal there were fights that could kill you in seconds if you didn't set things up correctly, especially if you play on a difficulty with friendly fire where you have to pay attention to your characters positions as well. Of course it could be improved in a lot of ways, but that's the whole potential of sequels, they can improve things from the previous games. (not that they bothered to do much with DA2, felt exactly the same but faster, wave based, and the mages weren't as good)

I can understand the progression issue since you very quickly run out of skills for warriors if you want to focus on one weapon. But for the Mage the progression comes from unlocking a huge selection of skills

And there are tons of enemies you fight in DA:O. Yes, the Darkspawn and Humans make up a lot of them, but they're the main enemies in the game, or course you'll fight a lot of them. You also fight spiders, dogs, big brute darkspawn guys, magical darkspawn/evil mages, whole bunch of magical/veil monsters, dragons, werewolves, golems, and then the bosses on top of that. True they could have used some rare encounters could have been cool

And it's pretty obvious how they got from BG2 to here, it's been a decade since that game came out. Given the rate of turnaround on employees in the video game industry you'll be lucky if a fraction of the people working at Bioware are the same that were working there 12 years ago.

[truly101]

Can't be worse than Dragon Age 2 ...

It shouldn't be possible. Unlike a lot of GAF, I liked all the ME games, and DA1 so I'm willing to give DA3 a shot. This is most likely their last big current gen release so they have no reason to rush it. No reusing the same 4 maps for every spot in the world. No more hackneyed choices that are rendered completely irrelevant at the end, NO MORE GIANT SPIDERS DROPPING OUT OF THE FUCKING SKY, YOU ASSHOLES!

[Darklord]

If you liked DA2, you'll probably like DA3, as it sounds like just an evolved DA2.

:(((((((((

That sounds dreadful. Make Origins 2 you arseholes!

[ciridesu]

Honestly DA2 for me is a disappointment purely, because it was rushed. It had so much potential as for me, it improved on the most important aspect of the games, the combat ( Too bad they fucked it up by respawning enemies I mean what kind of genius came up with that )

Besides that the plot and environment issues were the big thing, both of which I feel could've been improved with more time.

Safe to say, I'm actually excited about the 3rd installment, I'd think Bioware would finally understands their shortcomings and tries to improve on them.

[Grisby]

Make more than 1 town and I'm in.

[Deified Data]

Consumer surveys asking "do you find this character appealing"? Makes me think the next game will be even more designed-by-focus group than the last. Won't buy before several weeks of reviews have surfaced.

[_Keiichi_]

See, I really don't get where this is coming from.

I dunno bro. The only "hard" fights were the dragons, but even then, they were a joke compared to BG2 dragons.

Earthquake, Fire Storm. Rinse and Repeat. Some fights even ended before my DD could get to the mobs. Does the game have other enemies other than humans and darkspawns? Sure, but they all feel the same. Be it a spider or a ghost, all the fights went in the same way. Earthquake, Fire Storm.

Take BG2, you had trolls -you need fire and acid-, Mages -you need to dispel the shields-, Golems - Immune to magic and certain type of weapons-, all in one dungeon, and each of them provided a different type of fight.
DAO? Just spam Earthquack or whatever.

DAO also had fuckton of fillers, the derp roads being the worst offender of them all. Enter a room, throw a fireball, loot, enter the next door. And this goes on and on, for hours! I could list almost every fight in BG2 but i couldn't do the same for DAO because almost each of them literally felt the same.

[gdt]

Well, I'm hyped. I was very meh on Origins, and I mostly loved DAII (shocking, I know), so I'm wayyyy down for whatever is next.

[truly101]

If you liked DA2, you'll probably like DA3, as it sounds like just an evolved DA2.

Based on what, the stuff in the OP? There's hardly anything of substance there.

[Patryn]

Based on what, the stuff in the OP? There's hardly anything of substance there.

From previous statements they've made in addition to the OP, such as the PAX East panel (I was in attendence).

They've all but said it's a voiced OP and that the dialogue wheel will be returning. It also sounds like they'll be mostly keeping the combat system of DA2, minus the waves spawning on top of you (although expect waves... it sounds like they feel that waves aren't bad, just the way they did waves was bad).

I could be wrong, but I expect the game to have more in common with DA2 than DA:O.

[Dennis]

I just want them to go back to DA:O.

Its what the fans want. They cannot possibly be in any doubt about that.

Perhaps they are so stubborn and prideful that they cannot admit they were wrong though.

DA:O was a massive old-school RPG hit.

They didn't believe in it really and made DA2 some action garbage.

Can they admit it to themselves?

[Durante]

From previous statements they've made in addition to the OP, such as the PAX East panel (I was in attendence). They've all but said it's a voiced OP and that the dialogue wheel will be returning. It also sounds like they'll be mostly keeping the combat system of DA2, minus the waves spawning on top of you (although expect waves... it sounds like they feel that waves aren't bad, just the way they did waves was bad). I could be wrong, but I expect the game to have more in common with DA2 than DA:O.

Ugh. "Wave-based" combat design is the worst widely adopted gameplay feature this gen, across all genres. The only reasoning I can see for it is "hey, we can get 5 times as much *gameplay* out of this single set of assets if we let the player do the same encounter 5 times!".
(DA2 compounded that by also letting the player play each asset at 10 points in time, thus reaching the previously unheard of reuse factor of 50. Innovation)

[Deified Data]

I even hate seeing his face in an image. What an awful, piece of shit character.

I genuinely hated Anders, which is what made him such an excellent character. If he were a bad character you'd just ignore him. Characterization was DAII's greatest strength.

[Deified Data]

I just want them to go back to DA:O. Its what the fans want. They cannot possibly be in any doubt about that. Perhaps they are so stubborn and prideful that they cannot admit they were wrong though. DA:O was a massive old-school RPG hit. They didn't believe in it really and made DA2 some action garbage. Can they admit it to themselves?

I think the DA:O fanbase is just a very small fraction of the overall base that Bioware wants their games to attract. That's why they keep making them more accessible. They may know what the DA:O fans want, but that's a footnote compared to the expectations of the mainstream.

[Darklord]

I think the DA:O fanbase is just a very small fraction of the overall base that Bioware wants their games to attract. That's why they keep making them more accessible. They may know what the DA:O fans want, but that's a footnote compared to the expectations of the mainstream.

DA:O sold more than ME1 and 2 and WAY more than DA2.

[Durante]

DA:O sold more than ME1 and 2 and WAY more than DA2.

I was about to post this. If their goal was to make a better game, they failed spectacularly. If their goal was to make a game that sells more, they also failed.

[Dennis]

I think the DA:O fanbase is just a very small fraction of the overall base that Bioware wants their games to attract. That's why they keep making them more accessible. They may know what the DA:O fans want, but that's a footnote compared to the expectations of the mainstream.

DA:O sold vastly more than expected. It really was a smash hit. They didn't know that when they started working on DA2.

DA2 did not sell more than DA:O even though they went more mainstream. The belief that you can dumb down a fantasy game enough to bring in the masses is an illusion. They are much better off going for the old-school hardcore that actually cares a lot.

[Patryn]

I think the DA:O fanbase is just a very small fraction of the overall base that Bioware wants their games to attract. That's why they keep making them more accessible. They may know what the DA:O fans want, but that's a footnote compared to the expectations of the mainstream.

DA:O is their best-selling game. DA2 sold a fraction of what it sold, and it was the more accessible entry.

Ugh. "Wave-based" combat design is the worst widely adopted gameplay feature this gen, across all genres. The only reasoning I can see for it is "hey, we can get 5 times as much *gameplay* out of this single set of assets if we let the player do the same encounter 5 times!". (DA2 compounded that by also letting the player play each asset at 10 points in time, thus reaching the previously unheard of reuse factor of 50. Innovation)

I think the idea behind waves is that players enjoy the feeling of power that comes from dispatching many enemies, so they have to balance having lots of weak enemies with not overwhelming the player through sheer numbers.

[Deified Data]

DA:O sold vastly more than expected. It really was a smash hit. They didn't know that when they started working on DA2. DA2 did not sell more than DA:O even though they went more mainstream. The belief that you can dumb down a fantasy game enough to bring in the masses is an illusion. They are much better off going for the old-school hardcore that actually cares a lot.

Not to Bioware it isn't. Ask them, they'll probably tell you that DA2 failed because it wasn't mainstream enough.

[Patryn]

Not to Bioware it isn't. Ask them, they'll probably tell you that DA2 failed because it wasn't mainstream enough.

Given their appeals to the DA:O audience, I'm not sure I necessarily agree. I think it's more a combination of not having the time they had to develop DA:O and those in charge not necessarily understanding exactly what it was that made DA:O tick.

[RedSwirl]

Is there some comprehensive sales chart for all BioWare's games? is Origins really the best-selling game BioWare has ever made?

Given their appeals to the DA:O audience, I'm not sure I necessarily agree. I think it's more a combination of not having the time they had to develop DA:O and those in charge not necessarily understanding exactly what it was that made DA:O tick.

Could part of that have to do with DA:O's creative director not even being involved with DA2? If you read that old blog post he made it really gave off the feeling they wanted to get a mainstream sequel out there as fast as possible.

[markot]

So, do they just have focus groups make their games now?

[Patryn]

Could part of that have to do with DA:O's creative director not even being involved with DA2? If you read that old blog post he made it really gave off the feeling they wanted to get a mainstream sequel out there as fast as possible.

Oh, definitely. I tend to subscribe to the theory that they finished and pushed out Dragon Age: Origins solely due to the sunk costs of the long development and didn't expect much. So they began work on DA2, planning to mold it after Mass Effect, which EA and Bioware probably expected would be the far more popular series. Then DA:O blew up in sales, EA saw dollar signs, and the sequel got fast-tracked.

[Enduin]

Its interesting looking at both games from a development standpoint because DAO was in development forever, while DA2 was basically made in 3 weeks and you can see how those drastically different dev cycles affected the games.

DAO felt like a game that had taken forever to make and had gone through a ton of revisions. The visual style was rather bland and felt same-y. It took the kitchen sink approach to quests and the main plot felt like something that had been reworked a dozen times over, which hurt it a good deal. It was still a fantastic game but it was by no means perfect. It definitely felt like a too many chefs situation, where someone finally came in and was like "Its been 5 fucking years we need to cut the shit and put this game out."

DA2 on the other hand felt rushed in nearly every way. Reuse of environments, unevenness of the combat system, lack of development and depth to the overall plot, themes and characters. Like I've said before the whole game felt like a first draft. At the core I think the changes made were mostly a step in the right direction, but it was all so unrefined that they just infuriated most people in the end so the very idea of anything to do with DA2 enrages people, which probably wouldn't be the case had they simply taken the time necessary to get the new things right.

[RedSwirl]

Oh, definitely. I tend to subscribe to the theory that they finished and pushed out Dragon Age: Origins solely due to the sunk costs of the long development and didn't expect much. So they began work on DA2, planning to mold it after Mass Effect, which EA and Bioware probably expected would be the far more popular series. Then DA:O blew up in sales, EA saw dollar signs, and the sequel got fast-tracked.

But if they look at how badly DAII sold in comparison, wouldn't it be reasonable to try to re-channel DA:O? Sales-wise I'm actually thinking BioWare could have a Devil May Cry 2 situation on their hands.

[Trigger]

Oh, definitely. I tend to subscribe to the theory that they finished and pushed out Dragon Age: Origins solely due to the sunk costs of the long development and didn't expect much. So they began work on DA2, planning to mold it after Mass Effect, which EA and Bioware probably expected would be the far more popular series. Then DA:O blew up in sales, EA saw dollar signs, and the sequel got fast-tracked.

When you take this into consideration it's mind boggling the direction Bioware and EA are taking with the franchise. Even they should see that DA:O was the superior product. You'd think if it was possible to divert resources into a multiplayer mode for ME, they could divert resources to make a DA:O 2.

EDIT- Red Swirl feels me.

[TheChaos]

Oh, definitely. I tend to subscribe to the theory that they finished and pushed out Dragon Age: Origins solely due to the sunk costs of the long development and didn't expect much. So they began work on DA2, planning to mold it after Mass Effect, which EA and Bioware probably expected would be the far more popular series. Then DA:O blew up in sales, EA saw dollar signs, and the sequel got fast-tracked.

The DA2 composer flat-out said it was rushed out the door to capitalize on DA:O's success:

http://www.vg247.com/2011/03/11/drag...says-composer/

[Grayman]

I have only played neverwinter of the classic bioware games but of their newer ones they feel very samey with DAO being the standout as a little different. Improving on DAO they may be able to get me back as a customer. Their game needs upped everywhere for that though. Writing, locations, encounter design, and all the underlying systems.

[Patryn]

But if they look at how badly DAII sold in comparison, wouldn't it be reasonable to try to re-channel DA:O? Sales-wise I'm actually thinking BioWare could have a Devil May Cry 2 situation on their hands.

When you take this into consideration it's mind boggling the direction Bioware and EA are taking with the franchise. Even they should see that DA:O was the superior product. You'd think if it was possible to divert resources into a multiplayer mode for ME, they could divert resources to make a DA:O 2. EDIT- Red Swirl feels me.

EA won't give Bioware the time they'd need to develop a true DA:O sequel. It would take too long to generate the content to fill up a game like DA:O again. EA seems to be following the Activision belief that all games should be on 2-year cycles.

[truly101]

From previous statements they've made in addition to the OP, such as the PAX East panel (I was in attendence). They've all but said it's a voiced OP and that the dialogue wheel will be returning. It also sounds like they'll be mostly keeping the combat system of DA2, minus the waves spawning on top of you (although expect waves... it sounds like they feel that waves aren't bad, just the way they did waves was bad). I could be wrong, but I expect the game to have more in common with DA2 than DA:O.

So I can expect spiders dropping down from the clear blue sky. Should have known

[SerRodrik]

But if they look at how badly DAII sold in comparison, wouldn't it be reasonable to try to re-channel DA:O? Sales-wise I'm actually thinking BioWare could have a Devil May Cry 2 situation on their hands.

That would require them to really look at both games and be able to see what they did wrong beyond just asset reuse and paratroopers. I have not heard any quotes from them that indicate they have done that, or are willing to going forward. It sounds like they just want to refine the changes they made in DA2, which in my opinion is the wrong step.

DA2 on the other hand felt rushed in nearly every way. Reuse of environments, unevenness of the combat system, lack of development and depth to the overall plot, themes and characters. Like I've said before the whole game felt like a first draft. At the core I think the changes made were mostly a step in the right direction, but it was all so unrefined that they just infuriated most people in the end so the very idea of anything to do with DA2 enrages people, which probably wouldn't be the case had they simply taken the time necessary to get the new things right.

I disagree with this notion. I think that almost every change they made was a step in the wrong direction and showed that they did not understand what made Origins good.

[∀ Narayan]

So, how is DA2? Worth playing at all? Even if you get it really cheap?

[Monocle]

Focus groups are such a fucking joke.

"Since we can't even process the concept of artistic integrity, let's get a pack of bozos to design our game for us!"

[Count of Monte Sawed-Off]

So, how is DA2? Worth playing at all? Even if you get it really cheap?

It's probably worth playing it if you can get it cheap.

[DaBuddaDa]

How did DA2 sell compared to DA:O? Do we have numbers?

[Dennis]

So, how is DA2? Worth playing at all? Even if you get it really cheap?

DA2 - Not Even Once.

[Schweinehund]

So, how is DA2? Worth playing at all? Even if you get it really cheap?

Its ok. Don't buy into the disgust, its really just the angst of long time pc crpg players who wish for a modern day baldur's gate. That being said, its nothing memorable. It suffers heavily from reused assets, a so-so story and very unimmersive combat (the combat system is actually an improvement, its the spawning from thin air waves of monsters that break immersion). Its companions are more memorable than DA1 if there is one glaring positive. If it's 10$ or below I'd say grab it.

[Patryn]

How did DA2 sell compared to DA:O? Do we have numbers?

I don't have the exact numbers, but it initially sold more (think first month), but sales fell off a cliff.

DA:O, meanwhile, was (and may still be, I haven't checked lately) Bioware's best-selling game ever.

Basically, DA2 ended up selling far less. It was so bad that retailers refused to accept a DA2 complete edition including all the DLC, which is why they never released one.

[Complistic]

fool me once. Shame on you. Fool me twice...

[Moaradin]

That logo looks pretty nice.

[Jibbajabbawockky]

Is there some comprehensive sales chart for all BioWare's games? is Origins really the best-selling game BioWare has ever made?

I'm not sure how well exactly Origins sold. I think people here are referencing this quote from Rob Bartel regarding Origins' sales in relation to other BioWare games:

“Dragon Age was an extremely successful title for us – last November it was the single most globally successful title we’ve put out to date."

November being November 09, which I guess would be before ME2 came out. But still, it seems to have been their most successful new IP launch ever.

Could part of that have to do with DA:O's creative director not even being involved with DA2? If you read that old blog post he made it really gave off the feeling they wanted to get a mainstream sequel out there as fast as possible.

Yup, here is the link to Brent Knowles' series of blog posts on his 10 years at BioWare. Its a pretty interesting read. Regarding DA2 in Fall 2008- Summer 2009:

We were nearing the end of active work on design content for Dragon Age… there was still a lot more bug fixing/polishing/ and fill-content generation ahead but the core plot/writing and level design was finished. My work was rapidly shifting into that of reviewing what the team had put together. Discussion on Dragon Age 2 began around this time and looking ahead I knew that I wasn’t going to be satisfied with what Dragon Age 2 would be. Party control/tactical combat are huge factors in my enjoyment of a role-playing game as is adopting the role of the hero (i.e., customizing my character). I was fairly certain Dragon Age would transition towards more of a Mass Effect experience, which while enjoyable is not the type of role-playing game I play. Could I be the lead designer on such a title? Certainly… though if I were going to work on a game adopting a set-in-stone protagonist I’d rather work on something lighter, like a shooter. Through a series of circumstances it was decided that with my not wanting to participate on Dragon Age 2 it was time to transition in a new lead to finish the Dragon Age console versions and ramp up for Dragon Age 2. I moved out of an active lead role though I stayed on for several months performing quality assurance and helping with the transition.

I don't have the exact numbers, but it initially sold more (think first month), but sales fell off a cliff. DA:O, meanwhile, was (and may still be, I haven't checked lately) Bioware's best-selling game ever. Basically, DA2 ended up selling far less. It was so bad that retailers refused to accept a DA2 complete edition including all the DLC, which is why they never released one.

Yeah, with DA2 they had some bizarre promotion about 3 weeks post release where they were giving away ME2 download codes with every copy of DA2. Having to bundle a whole game with your new release as an incentive doesn't exactly make me think it was selling like hotcakes.

[CrazyDude]

I don't have the exact numbers, but it initially sold more (think first month), but sales fell off a cliff. DA:O, meanwhile, was (and may still be, I haven't checked lately) Bioware's best-selling game ever. Basically, DA2 ended up selling far less. It was so bad that retailers refused to accept a DA2 complete edition including all the DLC, which is why they never released one.

Yeah, but the majority of people who bought the game didn't bother to finish the games. Only 36 percent finished DAO.

[Patryn]

Yeah, but the majority of people who bought the game didn't bother to finish the games. Only 36 percent finished DAO.

The average percentage for all games is like 25 percent.

[SerRodrik]

God, that quote from Brent Knowles is so depressing. What could have been.

[enzo_gt]

That logo... that clash of styles...