[Archon473]

We should keep in mind that we still don't actually know the full roster yet. This game has a lot of bases to cover and I definitely agree it'd be a better product with Crash and those guys on board, but I say wait and see who is announced last and then give the final game a shot before getting too bogged down.

There is always the chance a Crash/Spyro-inspired level, background character, item, or story cameo is possible.

Another more important consideration is how well Crash, Spyro, or any potential character can be implemented as a fighting game character. Qualifications would include how they control space, how unique they are to control compared to other characters in the roster, how unique they are to battle (ex. Would fighting Crash be different than fighting Radec? Would Sly and Sackboy fight Crash differently?). The last thing you want is a repetitious character or a dull character. Maybe they had mechanical (rather than legal) reasons to pass on fan favorites.

[jtir123]

There is always the chance a Crash/Spyro-inspired level, background character, item, or story cameo is possible. Another more important consideration is how well Crash, Spyro, or any potential character can be implemented as a fighting game character. Qualifications would include how they control space, how unique they are to control compared to other characters in the roster, how unique they are to battle (ex. Would fighting Crash be different than fighting Radec? Would Sly and Sackboy fight Crash differently?). The last thing you want is a repetitious character or a dull character. Maybe they had mechanical (rather than legal) reasons to pass on fan favorites.

I highly doubt that's the reason xD

With enough creativity, you could make some of the blandest characters unique--and Crash and Spyro definitely have more than enough material to work with.

[SmithnCo]

If they are going to get permission from Acti to use Crash/Spyro stuff, they'll be characters for sure.

[Takao]

The key difference is that Team Ico has been working on it for what, six years? Superbot was built from scratch and they built the game (and engine IIRC?) from scratch. I know three to four years is a bit long for a fighting game but when it's the first in a new franchise, I can understand it taking a bit longer because they were nailing down all the core gameplay mechanics first. As others have pointed out, they didn't reveal it until this year which I agree, is one of the best things they've done with it's publicity. Plus, who knows how long they were in the concept/early stages before they finally moved to full development? In comparison, TLG was revealed aeons ago and has been going through development hell - overall it's been pretty embarrassing if you're a fan of Team Ico and or you just want the damn game to be finished. In roughly the same amount of time it's been taking them to make TLG, Naughty Dog has made three Uncharted games and even started a brand new IP that is already looking to be ready by next year. Also, to go a step further, Superbot started as an internal studio within SSM so theoretically, SSM did GoW III and now GoW Ascension alongside all their smaller projects like The Unfinished Swan and now All-Stars, all before TLG even seems ready for launch. This is why Sony sent Allan Becker to go whip their asses into shape. I'm just saying it's insanely stupid that they're still basically burning their money while trying to get TLG finished, while All-Stars has to fend for itself with third party deals.

There's a few issues with this comparison. Firstly, Team Ico is a fraction of the size of Naughty Dog. I believe it's currently at the biggest it has ever been at like 50 people. Secondly, Team Ico is an internal team within Japan Studio. You know, the Japan Studio that makes Gravity Rush, and LocoRoco meaning that 50 member squad didn't just work on big weird bird things for the past half decade. Lastly, TLG is obviously a much more ambitious project than All-Stars. There is likely no source for Ueda and the rest of his team to draw inspiration from. That said, both games have taken a lot longer than they should have.

[Figboy79]

You don't know Activision. They give current employees the cold shoulder, lol.

So true.

I used to work at Activision, and it was one of the worst jobs I've ever had, and hands down, the worst job I've had in the gaming industry. Fuck Activision.

Crash and Spyro aren't in this game. It's time to let that one go and move on.

[Schobeleth]

So true. I used to work at Activision, and it was one of the worst jobs I've ever had, and hands down, the worst job I've had in the gaming industry. Fuck Activision. Crash and Spyro aren't in this game. It's time to let that one go and move on.

Sad to hear that, bad working conditions are never good. I think this is something we're all coming to terms with now, that the icons we associate with Playstation won't be in this. I think I'm finally ok with it now :\

There's a few issues with this comparison. Firstly, Team Ico is a fraction of the size of Naughty Dog. I believe it's currently at the biggest it has ever been at like 50 people. Secondly, Team Ico is an internal team within Japan Studio. You know, the Japan Studio that makes Gravity Rush, and LocoRoco meaning that 50 member squad didn't just work on big weird bird things for the past half decade. Lastly, TLG is obviously a much more ambitious project than All-Stars. There is likely no source for Ueda and the rest of his team to draw inspiration from. That said, both games have taken a lot longer than they should have.

I agree that both have taken longer than they should have but to the majority of the public, All-Stars didn't exist until this year, most people outside of the hardcore community even know how long it's been in development for. They just see trailers or hear about it in passing comments from friends.

TLG has been officially revealed for much longer and it still doesn't have a solid release date. It's not as bad as the GT5 fiasco (huge, bloated team and ridiculous working conditions, several delays) but it's still pretty bad. The main thing I was trying to emphasize was how ridiculous Sony has been with their management of their Japan studios.

They basically go into a cave for x amount of years and Sony keeps throwing money at them, casually asking "Oh, is it done yet?" every year or so. In comparison, they build Superbot just for this game and then when Sony should be coming through with sealing these deals for Playstation icons like Crash, Spyro and Cloud, they don't follow through.

From the public view, we're getting third party cash ins like Big Daddy and Dino, additions that are there purely to promote their upcoming games. The argument for Big Daddy not being a cash in is shot down by the very fact that Columbia, not Rapture is part of the stage mash ups. I know, his level 3 essentially converts any stage to Rapture but it's not the same thing. People have even said that Ken Levine even wrote the story for Big Daddy in All-Stars, that he really pushed for his inclusion.

I don't want to sound like a jerk, but how hard can it be to write the story for a fighter like this? At most, it involves his dialogue (which is incomprehensible whale noises) so the only real worry is what the little sister says, and from what we've been shown so far, the story mode will only have small little videos with exchanges from both combatants - and the variances depend on whether or not each different character match up is different. I'll make an assumption now that the only unique intros we'll see are from rivals. If this is true, they only have to write a few videos for him.

Superbot has been mum on whether or not those icons will make it into the game, yet they acknowledge that the huge demand for them is there. Now we pretty much know why we're getting Dino, Raiden and Big Daddy over recognizable Playstation icons like Solid Snake, Cloud, Spyro and Crash. Think about it, they kept touting how awesome Big Daddy's playstyle came out and how he's not a cash in, but how can he ever be more of a Playstation icon than the ones mentioned above?

Maybe they tried to get those icons, realized they don't have the funds for it and said "Welp, let's make do with what we can get and say it totally makes sense over what the fans want". I already love this game so much but the third party choices just enrage me as a fan of Playstation. I'm slowly getting over it, but I'll never be happy with how they're taking third party characters that are there purely to promote upcoming games.

I think all of these things are definitely pointing towards Lightning being included over any other FF character, which is both depressing and shameful as well. The sad part is that Dino's playstyle looks really cool, it really captures the essence of what Dante was, but he is definitely not Dante. Someone even mentioned how terrible his portrait is - that's because he's a terribly designed character. He looks like an emaciated tranny witch.

It really sucks because overall I love this game and I think all of the Sony franchises represented so far have been great choices - I just think the third party choices have been terrible.

[Man-is-Obsolete]

Holy moly, assumptions galore are being made here.

[Loudninja]

Ughhhhh

[Drencrom]

Sup duders, back from my vacation. Been lurking here since the gamescom reveals and I just want to say that all four characters looks awesome (even Donte).
Spike and Sackboy have some really cool and creative moves I want to try out.

So true. I used to work at Activision, and it was one of the worst jobs I've ever had, and hands down, the worst job I've had in the gaming industry. Fuck Activision. Crash and Spyro aren't in this game. It's time to let that one go and move on.

This doesn't surprise me, sorry to hear that Fig.

Capcom > Activision confirmed ;)

[Figboy79]

Sup duders, back from my vacation. Been lurking here since the gamescom reveals and I just want to say that all four characters looks awesome (even Donte). Spike and Sackboy have some really cool and creative moves I want to try out. This doesn't surprise me, sorry to hear that Fig. Capcom > Activision confirmed ;)

You know what's really funny and ironic to me? I'm actually really loving it at Capcom. It's crazy. I'm one of those people that is totally about ripping on Capcom for their DLC shit, and lots of other foolish things they do, but as an employer, it's been fricking great. I even got a bonus and a raise a month ago, so I'm pretty damn pleased. Also, I'm working for Beeline Interactive, which is one of their mobile sections, so I'm not involved with any of the console stuff, but it's been a great year and a half. Easily one of my top companies I've worked for. I still have a soft place in my heart for Obsidian. Those guys were awesome, and I hated to leave, and I also hated to see them hit hard times. Some good people are at Obsidian.

But, yeah, Activision was shit, especially after Kotick took over. My first year at ATVI was pretty good for the most part, but then Kotick showed up, and the next two years were awful. He knows how to make them money, I'll give him that, but they are not a "people person" company at all. Employees are treated like cattle. I'd be surprised if they even knew our names.

[Chuck Norris]

Sad to hear that, bad working conditions are never good. I think this is something we're all coming to terms with now, that the icons we associate with Playstation won't be in this. I think I'm finally ok with it now :\ I agree that both have taken longer than they should have but to the majority of the public, All-Stars didn't exist until this year, most people outside of the hardcore community even know how long it's been in development for. They just see trailers or hear about it in passing comments from friends. TLG has been officially revealed for much longer and it still doesn't have a solid release date. It's not as bad as the GT5 fiasco (huge, bloated team and ridiculous working conditions, several delays) but it's still pretty bad. The main thing I was trying to emphasize was how ridiculous Sony has been with their management of their Japan studios. They basically go into a cave for x amount of years and Sony keeps throwing money at them, casually asking "Oh, is it done yet?" every year or so. In comparison, they build Superbot just for this game and then when Sony should be coming through with sealing these deals for Playstation icons like Crash, Spyro and Cloud, they don't follow through. From the public view, we're getting third party cash ins like Big Daddy and Dino, additions that are there purely to promote their upcoming games. The argument for Big Daddy not being a cash in is shot down by the very fact that Columbia, not Rapture is part of the stage mash ups. I know, his level 3 essentially converts any stage to Rapture but it's not the same thing. People have even said that Ken Levine even wrote the story for Big Daddy in All-Stars, that he really pushed for his inclusion. I don't want to sound like a jerk, but how hard can it be to write the story for a fighter like this? At most, it involves his dialogue (which is incomprehensible whale noises) so the only real worry is what the little sister says, and from what we've been shown so far, the story mode will only have small little videos with exchanges from both combatants - and the variances depend on whether or not each different character match up is different. I'll make an assumption now that the only unique intros we'll see are from rivals. If this is true, they only have to write a few videos for him. Superbot has been mum on whether or not those icons will make it into the game, yet they acknowledge that the huge demand for them is there. Now we pretty much know why we're getting Dino, Raiden and Big Daddy over recognizable Playstation icons like Solid Snake, Cloud, Spyro and Crash. Think about it, they kept touting how awesome Big Daddy's playstyle came out and how he's not a cash in, but how can he ever be more of a Playstation icon than the ones mentioned above? Maybe they tried to get those icons, realized they don't have the funds for it and said "Welp, let's make do with what we can get and say it totally makes sense over what the fans want". I already love this game so much but the third party choices just enrage me as a fan of Playstation. I'm slowly getting over it, but I'll never be happy with how they're taking third party characters that are there purely to promote upcoming games. I think all of these things are definitely pointing towards Lightning being included over any other FF character, which is both depressing and shameful as well. The sad part is that Dino's playstyle looks really cool, it really captures the essence of what Dante was, but he is definitely not Dante. Someone even mentioned how terrible his portrait is - that's because he's a terribly designed character. He looks like an emaciated tranny witch. It really sucks because overall I love this game and I think all of the Sony franchises represented so far have been great choices - I just think the third party choices have been terrible.

[SpinDasher]

Holy moly, assumptions galore are being made here.

Exactly, none of us know anything about what has been going in these studios. :-P

[Sponge]

If you still feel Crash and Spyro are relevant to Sony at all anymore, then you haven't really kept up with Playstation at all.

[B.O.O.M]

lol the heck is going on here

[Hero]

Well, to get away from the nonsense any idea of when the public beta is going to be available?

[cyborg009]

Well, to get away from the nonsense any idea of when the public beta is going to be available?

Probably in September since the Beta ends 10/7

[SpinDasher]

Probably in September since the Beta ends 10/7

I've been having a hard time finding matches since the patch.

[KalBalboa]

Think there's any chance in hell that Crash's "birthday" coinciding with PAX might yield a surprise?

[Schobeleth]

Think there's any chance in hell that Crash's "birthday" coinciding with PAX might yield a surprise?

That would be amazing. Sorry guys for my post that just blew up, I've just been bummed that all those leaks happened. I just hope there are some more surprises and that they include more characters that make fans happy. I just want this game to be everything that it can be. Anyway, sorry again for blowing up, I promise it won't happen again ;)

Also, Crash, Spyro and Cloud may not be in new games on the PS3 but they do represent Playstation's history as they were huge successes on the ps1. I know Superbot said they aren't trying to have the same amount of characters from each era but hey, the more great additions the better.

[Mik_Pad]

Think there's any chance in hell that Crash's "birthday" coinciding with PAX might yield a surprise?

Hmmm......

[Sub_Level]

If you still feel Crash and Spyro are relevant to Sony at all anymore, then you haven't really kept up with Playstation at all.

People want them in the game for the relevance they used to carry, obviously not the lack of significance they hold now. Many playstation childhoods are associated with Crash and Spyro.

[Kurod]

I've been having a hard time finding matches since the patch.

Same here. Been having a lot of connection errors kicking me back to the character select screen.

[jtir123]

Think there's any chance in hell that Crash's "birthday" coinciding with PAX might yield a surprise?

I believe. I want to believe.

[SSReborn]

Alright I've been doing some thinking about what Colin from IGN said. How Superbot plays the game differently then how we play in the beta; they play more strategically. One thing I notice about the beta is that people barely block or play defense its like 80% - 90% offense. Now the reason for this is because there is a 3:00 minute time limit on matches and players feel the need to do as much damage as possible in the time given meaning defense takes a back seat. Now how I think the way Superbot plays is with a bigger emphasis on blocking looking for an opening and then string together a combo for maximum AP acrual.

[Jawmuncher]

Alright I've been doing some thinking about what Colin from IGN said. How Superbot plays the game differently then how we play in the beta; they play more strategically. One thing I notice about the beta is that people barely block or play defense its like 80% - 90% offense. Now the reason for this is because there is a 3:00 minute time limit on matches and players feel the need to do as much damage as possible in the time given meaning defense takes a back seat. Now how I think the way Superbot plays is with a bigger emphasis on blocking looking for an opening and then string together a combo for maximum AP acrual.

That would make sense.
But inb the beta it's hard to play like that when the other 3 are going batshit crazy.
I've never been a fan of the time limit modes, so I really hope theres a stock mode.

[Margalis]

Alright I've been doing some thinking about what Colin from IGN said. How Superbot plays the game differently then how we play in the beta; they play more strategically. One thing I notice about the beta is that people barely block or play defense its like 80% - 90% offense.

It makes sense, however the devs at Superbot need to consider a few things:

1. Some of them are pro fighting game players, which is not going to be true for much of the player base.

2. They designed the systems and play the game every day, so they are going to understand it a lot more.

3. The game comes off as a fun party game. Expecting people playing a fun party game to play a lot of defense then bust out a combo they practiced in training mode doesn't make a lot of sense.

It's cool that the game has defense and strategy, but the average player is not going to try to figure out exactly which combos build the most AP, practice combos for specific parts of the screen, etc. They are going to mash buttons, use moves that look cool, etc.

I'm decent at most fighting games but when I play Smash I pick the characters I like and use moves and strategies I think are silly fun. Like I pick Ness and try to lightning ball blast myself into people, because doing that is awesome. Sony Smash still seems to be struggling a bit to establish it's identity.

[FUNKNOWN iXi]

You guys think this game has the longevity/competiveness of Smash after diving into the Beta? Most of the reviews I've been hearing from the Beta have been subpar.. I think a lot of the negativity stems from not only no stocks, but not being able to kill off the stage.

[Jawmuncher]

It makes sense, however the devs at Superbot need to consider a few things: 1. Some of them are pro fighting game players, which is not going to be true for much of the player base. 2. They designed the systems and play the game every day, so they are going to understand it a lot more. 3. The game comes off as a fun party game. Expecting people playing a fun party game to play a lot of defense then bust out a combo they practiced in training mode doesn't make a lot of sense. It's cool that the game has defense and strategy, but the average player is not going to try to figure out exactly which combos build the most AP, practice combos for specific parts of the screen, etc. They are going to mash buttons, use moves that look cool, etc. I'm decent at most fighting games but when I play Smash I pick the characters I like and use moves and strategies I think are silly fun. Like I pick Ness and try to lightning ball blast myself into people, because doing that is awesome. Sony Smash still seems to be struggling a bit to establish it's identity.

I think that's why PSA should be able to get a tournament like scene.
Since much like Brawl it has the same you can pick it up and have fun, or you can take the game onto a whole new level of play that some didn't even think was possible.

[Mr. Fix]

So does anyone here expect any character reveals at PAX? I sure hope so at least. I know the game will be there, but it could be just for modes.

Let's say they do show Raiden and Lightning there (for the anniversary), would they really show Sir Dan and Evil Cole at TGS? My guess would then be to assume that we'll see new, not-leaked characters at either PAX or TGS.

Either that, or Lightning & Raiden at TGS, and Sir Dan & Evil Cole at NYCC.

[JStein0222]

Have you guys seen this silliness?

http://jacobauster.tumblr.com/

[Mr. Fix]

Have you guys seen this silliness? http://jacobauster.tumblr.com/

Sounds like this guy heard about the dude at IGN and decided to take advantage by shopping an image. Next.

[Jawmuncher]

So does anyone here expect any character reveals at PAX? I sure hope so at least. I know the game will be there, but it could be just for modes. Let's say they do show Raiden and Lightning there (for the anniversary), would they really show Sir Dan and Evil Cole at TGS? My guess would then be to assume that we'll see new, not-leaked characters at either PAX or TGS. Either that, or Lightning & Raiden at TGS, and Sir Dan & Evil Cole at NYCC.

They have to show something at pax....THEY HAVE TO

[jtir123]

They have to show something at pax....THEY HAVE TO

They will. I don't doubt it one bit.

[Gorillaz]

Just got a Crash Bandicoot ad on the top of the page...

It stings....it really stings right now.

[kvothe]

Just got a Crash Bandicoot ad on the top of the page... It stings....it really stings right now.

A Crash ad? For what?

[JohnnySasaki86]

Why couldn't they use the KH version of Cloud and his moveset from KH2(he only faught in the second one correct?)?

[MaverickHunterAsh]

So does anyone here expect any character reveals at PAX? I sure hope so at least. I know the game will be there, but it could be just for modes. Let's say they do show Raiden and Lightning there (for the anniversary), would they really show Sir Dan and Evil Cole at TGS? My guess would then be to assume that we'll see new, not-leaked characters at either PAX or TGS. Either that, or Lightning & Raiden at TGS, and Sir Dan & Evil Cole at NYCC.

I think it's pretty likely that we'll get some character reveals at PAX. I mean, it's PAX!

I'd say Lightning (if she's in) and Raiden are likelier to be TGS reveals though, given their games' and series' Japanese origin. Just seems like it would make more sense. I sure hope Lightning gets revealed at PAX, though; I'll be there, so I'd get to try her out! Here's hoping...

[Napalm_Frank]

It's possible they won't reveal any characters at TGS since they haven't even announced the game over there I think? They might announce Lightning, Raiden or something before and just have them + Parappa/Spike/Heihachi/Toro as the main faces for announcement trailer.

I think we are getting few characters at PAX. At least we know we should get SOMETHING from there :).

[Desmond]

Good morning fellas, just got a letter saying I got my first choice University spot. In a great mood!

What really would make the day better is a Snake and Raiden reveal ;)

[Schobeleth]

Good morning fellas, just got a letter saying I got my first choice University spot. In a great mood! What really would make the day better is a Snake and Raiden reveal ;)

Congrats! I hear that - I really do love Raiden as a character (even before he went cyborg ninja) but I also really love Snake/Big Boss... if we could have both, that would be amazing! Hoping we get some reveals at PAX, but I'm really wondering what/if they (will) reveal stuff at TGS.

[KalBalboa]

You guys think this game has the longevity/competiveness of Smash after diving into the Beta? Most of the reviews I've been hearing from the Beta have been subpar.. I think a lot of the negativity stems from not only no stocks, but not being able to kill off the stage.

I've read a lot of positive reviews from the beta, myself.

[jondabomb]

Just got a Crash Bandicoot ad on the top of the page... It stings....it really stings right now.

Just got one too. I really wish we knew one way or another if he was going to be in or not

[TheMink]

Why couldn't they use the KH version of Cloud and his moveset from KH2(he only faught in the second one correct?)?

Nah you fight him in both, but i agree with you regardless. In kh1 cloud grows a wing so thats pretty badass.

[JohnnySasaki86]

Nah you fight him in both, but i agree with you regardless. In kh1 cloud grows a wing so thats pretty badass.

Yea I think he looks really badass with single wing. He's like a "fallen hero". I wonder if they could also use that as a bases for his storyline. Might be more interesting that way.

[TheMink]

Yea I think he looks really badass with single wing. He's like a "fallen hero". I wonder if they could also use that as a bases for his storyline. Might be more interesting that way.

At the very least a KH1 alt costume with the wing and his sword with te bandages on it. Thats my favorite sword ever :3

[Napalm_Frank]

Website updated.

Seems like that terrible cover art was placeholder after all, thank god! Also includes wallpaper maker xD.

[Drencrom]

Website updated.

Finally, looks much better now.

[DMPrince]

Finally, looks much better now.

it's just a logo on a black bg... lol.

EDIT: oh. i'm talking about the boxart.. lol.

fuck the haters. dante is <3

[Napalm_Frank]

Kratos legacy list doesn't include God of War 1 but they remembered to put in GOW:Betrayal :lol. Seems like they will update character profiles with some movelists.

[Acquiescence]

Website updated. Seems like that terrible cover art was placeholder after all, thank god! Also includes wallpaper maker xD.

Can't unsee Dante grabbing Sweet Tooth's butt.

Sexual deviant indeed.