[Quackula]

I have a question: why would Ra's Al Ghul gloat over Bruce like that while in the prison and then not go help his daughter destroy Gotham? Seemed like an awfully big plot hole to me.

I just choked on my coffee

[dmshaposv]

Oh if we are going on tropes and contrivances, I really didn't like that Nolan somehow managed to put in the worst aspect of Superman Returns (Clark Kent comes back after some years...and so does Superman. How convenient!) into this film.

[Veelk]

Oh we are going on tropes and contrivances, I really didn't like that Nolan was somehow put in the worst aspect of Superman Returns (Clark Kent comes back after some years...and so does Superman. How convenient!) into this film.

Bruce never left.

Edit: What i mean is that Bruce didn't leave at the same time batman retired, and he never really became totally inactive either. He still had the party and everything. The only difference is that he started showing up to stuff while still not doing much. I guess it's sort of suspicious, but not as bad as in Superman Returns.

[Quackula]

Oh if we are going on tropes and contrivances, I really didn't like that Nolan somehow managed to put in the worst aspect of Superman Returns (Clark Kent comes back after some years...and so does Superman. How convenient!) into this film.

The whole "retired Batman coming back" thing was taken straight from Dark Knight Returns

[The Jason]

I dont know guys. This just didnt feel like a Nolan movie. It felt like Nolan emulating a more traditonal style blockbuster. There isnt his touch or brillance in it - if you will. Nolan has a certain flair in all his movies which this one lacked. :/ First of all - the sound mix of this movie is HORRIBLE. At least on IMAX. I just felt my ears pounded with the non stop drums by zimmer. The softer cues just were to few and far in between. I just didnt like bane's voice. Coupled with the bad mix he sounded annoying and I just wanted him to either shut up or someone else to speak. Which sucks because I thought he looked cool and had some rawness. But he ultimately is a forgettable sort of villain. The plane opener scene was drowned out by horrible sound and indecipherable v.o. The best things hands down about the movie was catwoman. She is the only character that felt in line with the previous two films tone. From getting scared shittless with an arrow whizzing past to kicking off wayne's stick - i knew she'd be cool. Nolan judt gave her too little to do... Im having trouble remebering good stuff about this film, vs the previous two. The movies biggest god damn problem was it felt so rushed. The second act is all a gigantic blur of gary oldman and JGL doing shit I dont know or care about. Its sad because, on paper bane's plan even if comic booky sounds cool but is horribly executed with too much time spent on these characters and too little on us soaking up the details of the plan. Seriously john blake didnt need to be in this movie. He comes out of no where, and becomes a principle character. In my mind I was like "who are you even?". It is a completely unnecessary character. I just dont think the tone of the movie is consistent with the trilogy. The opening is (minus plane scene) and then it kinda goes down the shitter with JGL and Oldman going through the motions. The third act was by far the mist dissapointing by switching gears to hollywood bluckbuster mode by having a tick time bomb. 5 months - 23 days - 13 hrs. I mean the movie just didnt have a proper sense of pacing and editing in the last few Reels. I had a smile after watching BB first time, I felt I saw a great personal story. TDK had my jaw on the floor with its brilliantly executed ending and a great feeling of having watched something special. TDKR just left me shocked and indifferent - shocked because i just wouldnt expect nolan to have made this film and indifferent because it wasnt terrible by any means. 7.5/10 (in comparison bb is 9/10 and tdk a 9.5/10)

I just saw the film today and I agree with the majority of this post.

First, the sound was horrible. They had so much god damn subs in bane's voice that you couldn't even hear what he was saying. Way too much subs in the pounding music too. I know it adds excitement to have bass you can feel (below 40hz sound is felt as a vibration) but it was way too much. It should have been fixed when the audio was mastered.

Second, it did seem forced. The character development never really felt meaningful.

Overall, it was a pretty good, but just didn't have the magic of the first two

[dmshaposv]

For the people who liked this movie or are general Nolan fans - where would you place this in Nolan's filmography in terms of objective quality?

I've not seen Following, but I'd say this is easily his worst movie to date. I don't even need a rewatch to confirm that. I may like some of the emotional beats more and understand bane better - but it won't fix the pacing and plotting issues this film has.

(If its any consolation - even Nolan's worst is still better than most.)

[jett]

Can't believe JGL doesn't get more love in all of this. He was the only new character that was actually fleshed out and his story arch ended perfectly. Cat woman was some typical bad girl gone good for no real reason. And Hathaway was boring. Her character was so unnecessary.

His character is boring, takes a lot of screen time and doesn't really amount too much, the very end aside. Catwoman was unnecessary as well yeah. I think Nolan didn't know where to go after TDK without Heath.

[Blader5489]

His character is boring, takes a lot of screen time and doesn't really amount too much, the very end aside. Catwoman was unnecessary as well yeah. I think Nolan didn't know where to go after TDK without Heath.

:lol, you can't put the very end aside, the very end is the whole point!

[Solo]

If you put Ledger aside, TDK is boring.

am i doing it right?

[jett]

:lol, you can't put the very end aside, the very end is the whole point!

I don't think the cool idea of someone becoming the next Batman is worth all the bloat and boredom Blake cause for the entirety of the movie.

If you put Ledger aside, TDK is boring. am i doing it right?

ma'dumb dumb

Ledger is essential to TDK, Blake is caca. And Ledger's performance made TDK...are you saying the same for JGL's? lolz.

[.GqueB.]

If you put Ledger aside, TDK is boring. am i doing it right?

Technically yes. And your post is also 100% accurate.

[Spring-Loaded]

This movie was like Uncharted 3 for me. Good, but disjointed compared to 2.

[jett]

This movie was like Uncharted 3 for me. Good, but disjointed compared to 2.

This is a really good analogy. Naughty Dog thought the only way to top Uncharted 2 was to go bigger, crazier and louder, full-stop. They were mistaken. Nolan pretty much had the same thought as far as I can tell.

[Messypandas]

TDK= Uncharted 2
TDKR= Crash Team Racing

[Spring-Loaded]

There's also the similarity between set pieces. The plane hijacking in Rises on it's own was fine, but it was too similar to Joker's robbery in TDK (and Batman kidnapping Lau), like the lost city collapse in UC3. Ubar collapsing was cool, but felt like a rehash after 2.

[evil solrac v3.0]

I have a question: why would Ra's Al Ghul gloat over Bruce like that while in the prison and then not go help his daughter destroy Gotham? Seemed like an awfully big plot hole to me.

it's not funny the 50th time someone does it, now you go and get DM all riled up by posting gifs. and stuff....

[evil solrac v3.0]

oh god please don't compore TDK or TDKR to that corridor set piece franchise.

[Dany M]

NotTheGuyYouKill
Banned
(Today, 01:45 AM)


He was the best of us, he wanted to prove a troll as good as himself wouldn't fall.

[Spring-Loaded]

oh god please don't compore TDK or TDKR to that corridor set piece franchise.

Drake = Wayne
Sully = Alfred
Elena = Gordon
Multiplayer = The League of Shadows

[bangladesh]

His character is boring, takes a lot of screen time and doesn't really amount too much, the very end aside. Catwoman was unnecessary as well yeah. I think Nolan didn't know where to go after TDK without Heath.

If anyone deserved more screentime in this ''movie'' it's this guy.



This guy is seriously one powerful screen presence. And quite frankly looked much more involved than Hardy's Bane imo.

[Solo]

That guy actually looks like an Uncharted character :lol

[Dany M]

Yeah, the way he told off that general on the bridge was great.

But it was weird, he seemed like a good soldier, who follows orders except when Bane kills two thugs in the sewers. It was weird that THAT was the only time he felt conflicted. Where is he in the final battle anyways?

[Manos: The Hans of Fate]

If anyone deserved more screentime in this ''movie'' it's this guy. This guy is seriously one powerful screen presence. And quite frankly looked much more involved than Hardy's Bane imo.

I kept thinking of Charlie from It's Always Sunny in Philadelphia.

[strafer]

Small gun. Big Bullets.

lulz

[effzee]

Its funny how each time I have watched the movie in theaters (2.5) I have left immensely satisfied, pumped up, and sad that the journey has ended. Then I come to GAF and read how everything could have been removed, so and so was unnecessary, and whatever else.

Not saying movie is without fault. I myself posted many times things I would have liked done differently. And of course a lot of it seems rushed to fit the run time. With that said even acknowledging some of the complains, both those I agree and disagree with, I think it just works. My biggest gripe is not that any one character was not needed or should have been cut, but that I liked all of them and would have liked more of them. I would have gladly sat for a 3hour + movie if it meant including the Bane background scenes, more time devoted to Bane, Catwoman, and Blake.

I also don't get the concept of claiming certain characters were not necessary. I think Blake, Selina, and everyone else in the movie was needed for the narrative. If you start removing them then you have a completely different movie/plot/story. Which I guess means you didn't like the story. And on that front I have to say it took until the 2nd viewing for me to truly appreciate the story/theme Nolan went with because the first time around the movie was battling with my own made up imagined plot that I thought they would go with picking up right after TDK. In my head the movie was going to be all about the GPD's investigation to find Batman while he is on the run while at the same time the mob fearing him thinking he has become a murderer. I guess I didn't think they would tie so much back into BB other than thematically focus the movie back on Bruce.

I also look at it this way. TDK had about the same # of new characters who took up tons of screen time. But both Bruce and Batman took a backseat so those characters came across as more developed. But its also one of the reasons I prefer BB over TDK. TDK gets shitted on way too much nowadays but the reason I put it slightly below BB is ONLY because I much more prefer the character of Bruce and Batman. Some people enjoy the villains more. It worked it TDK because someone had to take a backseat and for that story to work, it was Bruce/Batman. Oh and the Joker was out of this world amazing.

TDKR is all about Bruce, even if Batman has less screen time in total compared to TDK. Yes Blake gets a lot of screen time but the whole movie to me felt like it was all about Bruce with supporting characters. And its why it works for me as a great movie.

Someone asked where in Nolan's movies this would rank. I always change my lists. I haven't seen Momento in years and as always forget how amazing it was. Same with the Prestige. Plus I am probably in the minority here on GAF who loved loved loved Inception the day it came out and still do today.

If I had to make a list, and not saying any of them suck I guess it would be:

1. Inception
2. Prestige
3. Batman Begings
4. TDKR
5. Momento
6. TDK
7. Insomnia

None of them are bad or even terrible. I actually think they are all great in their own ways. Haven't seen The Following. And even though I rank two non Batman movies as the top 2, the Batman movies are easily the most re-watchable for me. I think I have watched both BB and TDK 10 times each.

[G-Fex]

That reminds me, I didn't see The Pope at all in the movie. He was supposed to be in the scene where the prisoners are being released and I didn't see him. :\

[Zoramon089]

It's all in jest...I hope

[effzee]

Yeah, the way he told off that general on the bridge was great. But it was weird, he seemed like a good soldier, who follows orders except when Bane kills two thugs in the sewers. It was weird that THAT was the only time he felt conflicted. Where is he in the final battle anyways?

He should have had an epic one on one kung fu fight with Blake. Batman's #2 vs Bane's #2.

Talia and Catwoman should have also wrestled each other to death.

Also did anyone else want Alfred to show and kick the old dude's ass in the prison who revives Bruce? Like just show up and be like "GET THE FUCK AWAY FROM HIM YOU DON'T KNOW HOW TO TAKE CARE OF HIM!"

[bangladesh]

That guy actually looks like an Uncharted character :lol

I always thought and still think Nolan got his inspiration for Bane from Uncharted 2's Zoran Lazarevic. Bulky bald warlord type in the snow. And Nolan's like, 'let's put a mask on it and say he's from da league 2!'

Somebody shop a mask on this guy so that people can begin 2 care

[Spring-Loaded]

Yeah, the way he told off that general on the bridge was great. But it was weird, he seemed like a good soldier, who follows orders except when Bane kills two thugs in the sewers. It was weird that THAT was the only time he felt conflicted. Where is he in the final battle anyways?

Got shot by Foley just before Foley dies.

[effzee]

I always thought and still think Nolan got his inspiration for Bane from Uncharted 2's Zoran Lazarevic. Bulky bald warlord type in the snow. And Nolan's like, 'let's put a mask on it and say he's from da league 2!' Somebody shop a mask on this guy so that people can begin 2 care

And wasn't TDK based on the MGS series?

[Messypandas]

Nolan was clearly influenced by Arkham Asylum. The trailer featuring this guy was on the TDK blu ray.

[Spring-Loaded]

This proves the Nolan trilogy is essentially the Uncharted trilogy in movie form.

[Jibbajabbawockky]

I also don't get the concept of claiming certain characters were not necessary. I think Blake, Selina, and everyone else in the movie was needed for the narrative. If you start removing them then you have a completely different movie/plot/story. Which I guess means you didn't like the story. And on that front I have to say it took until the 2nd viewing for me to truly appreciate the story/theme Nolan went with because the first time around the movie was battling with my own made up imagined plot that I thought they would go with picking up right after TDK.

That was the same for me- the second time I watched it, I enjoyed it much more than the first viewing.

It almost seems to me that maybe Nolan came up with the final scenes first- Bruce and Selina going off together, Blake becoming Batman and then built the story around getting to that point. In that case, you need Blake and Selina in the movie or else it would be something drastically different.

[dmshaposv]

This movie was like MGS4 for me. Good, but disjointed compared to MGS2/MGS3.

Fixed.

If you put Ledger aside, TDK is boring. am i doing it right?

Harvey Dent is ten times more interesting than any supporting character in TDKR. His arc was well told. Also the truck chase/interrogation scene/rachel's death/harvey dent's death/boat social experiment(come at me) are far more compelling than most set pieces in TDKR.

[LeBrick James]

Did GAF complain this much about TDK?

Once everything settles, I think people will realize that Rises is probably the best of the trilogy. Bane's death could've been handled a lot better, but Batman's struggle to overcome him is the most compelling story of the series, and by far the best fight scenes at the same time.

[Quackula]

That was the same for me- the second time I watched it, I enjoyed it much more than the first viewing. It almost seems to me that maybe Nolan came up with the final scenes first- Bruce and Selina going off together, Blake becoming Batman and then built the story around getting to that point. In that case, you need Blake and Selina in the movie or else it would be something drastically different.

afaik that's exactly how it happened.

Fixed.

Actually I kinda sorta agree. 'Cept TDKR felt more like what MGS4 should've been.

TDKR is a better ending to its series than MGS4 was. TDKR is also a better ending than Return of the Jedi.

[.GqueB.]

If anyone deserved more screentime in this ''movie'' it's this guy. This guy is seriously one powerful screen presence. And quite frankly looked much more involved than Hardy's Bane imo.

[.GqueB.]

Harvey Dent is ten times more interesting than any supporting character in TDKR. His arc was well told. Also the truck chase/interrogation scene/rachel's death/harvey dent's death/boat social experiment(come at me) are far more compelling than most set pieces in TDKR.

I wouldn't have minded the boat scene if it was well acted/written. It was so fucking cheesy.

"We're still here.. which means they haven't killed us yet either."

WHO OK'D THAT?!?!?!? But yea I agree. The interrogation scene was tense as hell, especially when the Joker said "you have nothing... nothing to threaten me with... nothing to do with all your strength." It was so spot on. In that moment, Batman didn't have anything. He was essentially beaten. Broken. That moment to me was more intense that Bane breaking Batmans back.

Truck chase was fucking boring though (come at me).

[ezekial45]

If anyone deserved more screentime in this ''movie'' it's this guy. This guy is seriously one powerful screen presence. And quite frankly looked much more involved than Hardy's Bane imo.

I agree. I loved this guy. Josh Stewart did a great job, with so little to work with.

[Quackula]

I wouldn't have minded the boat scene if it was well acted/written. It was so fucking cheesy. "We're still here.. which means they haven't killed us yet either." WHO OK'D THAT?!?!?!? But yea I agree. The interrogation scene was tense as hell, especially when the Joker said "you have nothing... nothing to threaten me with... nothing to do with all your strength." It was so spot on. In that moment, Batman didn't have anything. He was essentially beaten. Broken. That moment to me was more intense that Bane breaking Batmans back. Truck chase was fucking boring though (come at me).

Interrogation scene is the best scene in the trilogy.

I'd put the first bane fight as second best though.

[evil solrac v3.0]

I wouldn't have minded the boat scene if it was well acted/written. It was so fucking cheesy. "We're still here.. which means they haven't killed us yet either." WHO OK'D THAT?!?!?!? But yea I agree. The interrogation scene was tense as hell, especially when the Joker said "you have nothing... nothing to threaten me with... nothing to do with all your strength." It was so spot on. In that moment, Batman didn't have anything. He was essentially beaten. Broken. That moment to me was more intense that Bane breaking Batmans back. Truck chase was fucking boring though (come at me).

you always want someone to come at you bro. here would be some half post/TDKR quote thing to rebuff your opinion on the truck chase but.... whatever. (the scene was good FYI)

[.GqueB.]

you always want someone to come at you bro. here would be some half post/TDKR quote thing to rebuff your opinion on the truck chase but.... whatever. (the scene was good FYI)

Why'd you ignore the positive opinion right above that? I'm negative when I don't like something, positive when I do. I have no agenda. I don't ALWAYS want anyone to come at me. The come at me was just jokingly referencing the post I quoted.

[kai3345]

Just watched it for the third time, first time in IMAX. Goddamn that switching back and forth was jarring and distracting as fuck. Especially during the scene where Alfred first talks about going to the Cafe in Florence and in the cafe its in Imax but him talking about it is not and its constantly switching back and forth.

[Spring-Loaded]

Did GAF complain this much about TDK? Once everything settles, I think people will realize that Rises is probably the best of the trilogy. Bane's death could've been handled a lot better, but Batman's struggle to overcome him is the most compelling story of the series, and by far the best fight scenes at the same time.

I don't pretend to be well-versed when it comes to film nor do bother trying to objectively critique movies. That said, I honestly didn't enjoy TDKR anywhere close to how much I enjoyed the first two. I felt like the film was stopping and going, losing its momentum. There were particular scenes/aspects of the film that I thought were great (the sewer fight, reference to The Dark Knight Returns with the cops, Catwoman, all the prison scenes including the flashbacks) but it felt like those parts were diluted among a bunch of parts that were underwhelming or dopey. Batman hinting to Gordon who his secret identity was fine but the flashback with Gordon saying "Bruce Wayne??" made me roll my eyes and I'm usually one to look past such heavy-handedness for the sake of enjoyment.

Even after a second viewing, I only enjoyed it because it was interesting to see how Nolan translated Batman into a real world setting. My love for the first films diminished on repeated viewings as I noticed contrivances and the like, but at least they lived up to my hype the first time around. I wasn't even hyped for TDKR really.

[.GqueB.]

I don't pretend to be well-versed when it comes to film nor do bother trying to objectively critique movies. That said, I honestly didn't enjoy TDKR anywhere close to how much I enjoyed the first two. I felt like the film was stopping and going, losing its momentum. There were particular scenes/aspects of the film that I thought were great (the sewer fight, reference to The Dark Knight Returns with the cops, Catwoman, all the prison scenes including the flashbacks) but it felt like those parts were diluted among a bunch of parts that were underwhelming or dopey. Batman hinting to Gordon who his secret identity was fine but the flashback with Gordon saying "Bruce Wayne??" made me roll my eyes and I'm usually one to look past such heavy-handedness for the sake of enjoyment. Even after a second viewing, I only enjoyed it because it was interesting to see how Nolan translated Batman into a real world setting. My love for the first films diminished on repeated viewings as I noticed contrivances and the like, but at least they lived up to my hype the first time around. I wasn't even hyped for TDKR really.

I both loved and hated that part. On the one hand it was a touching moment between two great characters, on the other hand you think "you've worked in a shitty place like Gotham all these years and Bruce Wayne was the only child you ever had to comfort with your jacket... mmyyyy assssss." The movie was kind of full of moments like that.

None involving JGL... because he was great.

[Spring-Loaded]

There were a few scenes like that for me.

I wouldn't have minded the boat scene if it was well acted/written. It was so fucking cheesy. "We're still here.. which means they haven't killed us yet either." WHO OK'D THAT?!?!?!? But yea I agree. The interrogation scene was tense as hell, especially when the Joker said "you have nothing... nothing to threaten me with... nothing to do with all your strength." It was so spot on. In that moment, Batman didn't have anything. He was essentially beaten. Broken. That moment to me was more intense that Bane breaking Batmans back. Truck chase was fucking boring though (come at me).

That was perfect. The point of Alfred's speech about "some men" was encapsulated in that scene. Batman was something all the conventional criminals weren't prepared for: an incorruptible, unstoppable force justice. The Joker was the opposite, yet equal, for Batman.

[Truant]

Saw it again.

How the fuck does Gordon know Bane's name after the sewer scene? His name is never mentioned.

[Superimposer]

Just got back from third viewing... I saw it for the second time the day after release day so I've had a lot of time to let it settle. The second viewing confirmed that it stood up for me, on the third viewing the flaws became more obvious but I actually realised today that this one is my favourite.

[Zoramon089]

Saw it again. How the fuck does Gordon know Bane's name after the sewer scene? His name is never mentioned.

Same way Alfred knows or anyone else knows...he's been a growing presence. And Gordon is the freakin police commissioner!