• Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.

Summer 2012 Anime |OT3| Where All the Waifus Are Made Up and the Points Don't Matter

Status
Not open for further replies.

cajunator

Banned
Angel Beats 3

Its okay.

I really think that show isnt as bad as some people would have you believe.
I mean yeah it has some major production issues and some bad writing, but its still a fun watch and does honestly tug at the heartstrings a bit. The music is also fantastic. Plus yui is really cute.
 

fertygo

Member
I really think that show isnt as bad as some people would have you believe.
I mean yeah it has some major production issues and some bad writing, but its still a fun watch and does honestly tug at the heartstrings a bit. The music is also fantastic. Plus yui is really cute.

But its not fun at all.

The "joke" make me angry than laugh.
 
113hzu3g.jpg
114eru8s.jpg
1155kuyf.jpg

dat mini Watashi. The extras are pretty awesome of the Jinrui BD. It will also have a PV for the "Aura: Maryūinkōga Saigo no Tatakai" movie based on another light novel of Romeo Tanaka.

http://blog.livedoor.jp/geek/archives/51360031.html (the website has NSFW content)

The 2008 school romantic comedy novel revolves around Ichirō "Menzu" Satō, a high school freshman who forgets his textbook at school one day. Ichirō encounters a beautiful girl while sneaking back into his school in the dead of night. The girl calls herself a witch from a parallel world. Ichirō used to suffer delusions of grandeur like this, but vowed to stop so that he can successfully re-invent himself as a freshman in high school.

http://www.animenewsnetwork.com/new...igo-no-tatakai-anime-film-officially-unveiled

I hear only good things about the LN.
 

Dresden

Member
muv luv alternative: total eclipse - 03

so I was like, fuck the world, I'm skipping the first two because I can.

I got used to the cg robots once I realized that when they're not cg, they look even worse. The action is bad--there's a severe disconnect between what it wants to be (awesome fast paced mecha combat!) and what it is (a cutscene out of a ps2 game).


Not that robots need to make sense, but having a third arm jut out like that for additional fire support is a nice touch. It reminds me of the Saberhagen novels I used to read as a kid. Mecha fights tend to approximate human combat too much, and while I don't have a problem with it, it's nice to see something that veers away from that mold a bit, even if it never goes all the way in. Stuff like cockpit view (which is a carryover/tribute from the games judging by a few of the screens I've seen of it) and the way that the pilots are inserted into the machines are a plus as well.

Only positive thing I can say about the character designs overall is that at least it's not as bad as the VN's. It's just an ugly show all around.

Still, I enjoyed it, at least the stuff that happened near the end. The caramaderie they build is amusing and plausible, and Yuuya (when not interacting with the Japanese girl) is a surprisingly open protagonist. I don't have good vibes about what's coming next, but for now, I'll check out the next episode.

And as bitchy as Chobi can be, you guys were right: the Gurkha girl is cute.

 
muv luv alternative: total eclipse - 03

so I was like, fuck the world, I'm skipping the first two because I can.
Boooo. All you really need to know about them though is that
all of Yui(Japanese girl)'s friends got owned, and then she had to watch as one of them was eaten alive by the BETA because Yui was too chicken to put her out of her misery. In other words, Yui is really fucking damaged by the start of episode 3.

This is important to know because it factors into pretty much everything she does.
 

Dresden

Member
Boooo. All you really need to know about them though is that
all of Yui(Japanese girl)'s friends got owned, and then she had to watch as one of them was eaten alive by the BETA because Yui was too chicken to put her out of her misery. In other words, Yui is really fucking damaged by the start of episode 3.

This is important to know because it factors into pretty much everything she does.

Good to know, thanks.
 
I really think that show isnt as bad as some people would have you believe.
I mean yeah it has some major production issues and some bad writing, but its still a fun watch and does honestly tug at the heartstrings a bit. The music is also fantastic. Plus yui is really cute.

Its too early to tell right now. :p
 

Jex

Member

What's funny, or rather, not funny at all is that Eureka Seven: Ao can't even get fanservice right. At the very least you'd think this show would have some sweet mecha action. I mean, they've had
two Niravash's in the show for ages and the obvious thing to do is have them fight each other. Yet they haven't even done that yet!
 

duckroll

Member
What's funny, or rather, not funny at all is that Eureka Seven: Ao can't even get fanservice right. At the very least you'd think this show would have some sweet mecha action. I mean, they've had
two Niravash's in the show for ages and the obvious thing to do is have them fight each other. Yet they haven't even done that yet!

They got it right in ep2.

....

.........

:(
 

fertygo

Member
I disagree. Angel Beats seemed pretty fun at times. Especially during the girls Dead monster concert stuff and some fighting scenes. I guess we just find different things to be entertaining.

How you enjoy something that just throwed at you? jokes, melodrama, marriage plan, fighting. that all shifted between 6 minute in AB.. God, just remember it piss me off.

And I'm sure I'm not picky at all for anime, I still can watch pokemon.
 

DiGiKerot

Member
I'm still not happy about how even Sunrise can't give us hand-drawn mecha any more.

Accel World? Kind of.

Sunrise is a big (set of) studios, though, so it's going to depend entirely on what staff a particular show gets as well as other factors. I mean, in Akito, isn't the CG use mostly down to how ludicrously complicated the mechanical designs are? Admittedly, that might be a good argument for simplifying your animation designs, but to run with what they have, you'd probably need the staff and production timeline of a Redline to be able to manage that by hand...
 

DiGiKerot

Member
One of these days someone is going to have to ask BONES how they so consistently misunderstand the appeal of their properties.

I was speaking to a couple of people who interviewed the director and producer of Sacred Star of Milos a few months back. Apparently the answer is that they spend more time playing cup-and-ball than they do working on production.
 

fertygo

Member
Accel World? Kind of.

Sunrise is a big (set of) studios, though, so it's going to depend entirely on what staff a particular show gets as well as other factors. I mean, in Akito, isn't the CG use mostly down to how ludicrously complicated the mechanical designs are? Admittedly, that might be a good argument for simplifying your animation designs, but to run with what they have, you'd probably need the staff and production timeline of a Redline to be able to manage that by hand...

I'm surprised they still use hand-drawn animation for "mecha"fight in Horizon S2 too, I thought they could use CG for that Macbeth.
 

Defuser

Member
Accel World 23
Dammit Taku, why can't you just shut your mouth and finish him off? You even let him stand up!

Anyway loving the bgm they use so far.
 

duckroll

Member
Accel World? Kind of.

Sunrise is a big (set of) studios, though, so it's going to depend entirely on what staff a particular show gets as well as other factors. I mean, in Akito, isn't the CG use mostly down to how ludicrously complicated the mechanical designs are? Admittedly, that might be a good argument for simplifying your animation designs, but to run with what they have, you'd probably need the staff and production timeline of a Redline to be able to manage that by hand...

In the case of Akito, using CG for the mech action was something that came up very early, directly from the producer. It had nothing to do with Sunrise not having 2D mecha animators, but they simply wanted to do something that looked different. Once they decided on that, it also allowed the designs to be more complex and elaborate, and Akane could approach it from a more dynamic way.

He also mentions that for Akito, they didn't use any 2D base key animation for the CG mecha action at all. Instead the CG director was responsible for converting the action from the storyboards directly into CG. The CG director is Eiji Inomoto, who runs Orange. He has worked with both Akane and Kawamori countless times, so Akane is pretty comfortable working with him.

I think that people like Branduil just have to accept that CG animation is every bit as much a part of the animation industry anywhere in the world as traditional animation is. If you want to continue enjoying modern works being made by directors who are interested in developing and expanding themselves further, you will need to look past any silly personal narrow mindedness you have about the different art forms, and just appreciate what people are trying to do.
 

Jex

Member
Code Geass Akito the Exiled looks pretty good!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4NWe4YU8Eas

While my predilections for handdrawn mechanical animation are well known I'm happy to see that at least the CG mecha have fairly complicated designs and are moving in extremely frantic and interesting ways, so at least they're using the freedom afforded to them via CG to do some cool stuff. However I really dislike those heavy black character outlines that you can see on the mecha because it really makes them stand-out against the 2D world. I have a screencap of what I mean, but sadly photobucket is busted so I can't upload it.
 

cajunator

Banned
How you enjoy something that just throwed at you? jokes, melodrama, marriage plan, fighting. that all shifted between 6 minute in AB.. God, just remember it piss me off.

And I'm sure I'm not picky at all for anime, I still can watch pokemon.

I suppose its because I find enjoyment in a lot of things.
I found angel Beats to be a colorful, intriguing, entertaining show. I never said it was high quality or a masterpiece, just that as a viewer I was drawn into the world and enjoyed the ride. It played with emotions like any Key show does, but I like that sort of thing.
 

Branduil

Member
In the case of Akito, using CG for the mech action was something that came up very early, directly from the producer. It had nothing to do with Sunrise not having 2D mecha animators, but they simply wanted to do something that looked different. Once they decided on that, it also allowed the designs to be more complex and elaborate, and Akane could approach it from a more dynamic way.

He also mentions that for Akito, they didn't use any 2D base key animation for the CG mecha action at all. Instead the CG director was responsible for converting the action from the storyboards directly into CG. The CG director is Eiji Inomoto, who runs Orange. He has worked with both Akane and Kawamori countless times, so Akane is pretty comfortable working with him.

I think that people like Branduil just have to accept that CG animation is every bit as much a part of the animation industry anywhere in the world as traditional animation is. If you want to continue enjoying modern works being made by directors who are interested in developing and expanding themselves further, you will need to look past any silly personal narrow mindedness you have about the different art forms, and just appreciate what people are trying to do.

Sometimes it's good to be narrow-minded if expanding your mind involves accepting something that looks bad. Not that Akito is the worst I've seen or anything, but I would certainly prefer to see work from their better traditional animators.

My main complaint about the Japanese use of CGI in character or mechanical animation has always been that they've taken something that they are uniquely good at and replaced it with something pedestrian and mediocre on the worldwide scale.
 

duckroll

Member
Sometimes it's good to be narrow-minded if expanding your mind involves accepting something that looks bad. Not that Akito is the worst I've seen or anything, but I would certainly prefer to see work from their better traditional animators.

My main complaint about the Japanese use of CGI in character or mechanical animation has always been that they've taken something that they are uniquely good at and replaced it with something pedestrian and mediocre on the worldwide scale.

If you think that anime CG looks pedestrian and mediocre on the worldwide scale, I don't really know what to tell you. Because the worldwide scale includes things like Clone Wars, which is fucking awful. Anime CG has reached a point where a lot of it really looks pretty good, especially for cartoons on TV. I'm not really seeing where the international competition is so much better in terms of using CG in TV series. Heck, even CG effects in major network TV shows in the US suck balls. Lost? Heroes?

If you're trying to compare it with something like Pixar, that is really silly because it just means your expectations are skewed. The average Japanese anime's 2D animation isn't anywhere close to looking like a Disney or even Fox animated movie. In fact, one of the biggest observances that people who are familiar with western motion picture animation make about anime is that the frame counts are pretty low and it actually looks really choppy to them. Sure, the scenes are often more elaborate and cooler for the people who like that sort of thing, but the actual technical animation is generally considered low quality by international standards.

Food for thought.
 

cajunator

Banned
Kingdom raised the bar on bad CG. It will take something astoundingly awful to top it.
It has actually made me appreciate the CG present in most anime.
The vast majority of it looks fine in the context of the scenes it is in.
 

sonicmj1

Member
E7 AO 20

I realized when thinking back on 19 that I had already stopped caring about anything that happened in the show a while ago. Otherwise, the events that ended the episode might have mattered to me. I feel similarly here.

Speaking of missed opportunities, wouldn't it have been great if
the thing in the basement was typeTheEND?
It's like they don't know what they have.

On the CG discussion, am I misremembering or is all the mech stuff in AO done with CG? I feel like that's been handled really well so far, even if the mechs are relatively underutilized.
 

wonzo

Banned
Ginga e Kickoff!! 18

Ahh, so that's what the episode title was talking about. It was nice to see Shou finally
score his first goal in an official match, even if it was pretty much given to him on a silver platter by one of the triplets.
 

fertygo

Member
Sunrise is one of the best at CG department on industry anyway (although Akito is worked by ORANGE)
In most case I don't mind with their CG usage, just compare it to I.G or Satelight (and/or their usual contractor)which godawful at it.
I suppose its because I find enjoyment in a lot of things.
I found angel Beats to be a colorful, intriguing, entertaining show. I never said it was high quality or a masterpiece, just that as a viewer I was drawn into the world and enjoyed the ride. It played with emotions like any Key show does, but I like that sort of thing.

But its not colorful. the color look pretty washed in AB.. I could more enjoying AB if its not like feel like something that played with fast forward function.
 

Branduil

Member
If you think that anime CG looks pedestrian and mediocre on the worldwide scale, I don't really know what to tell you. Because the worldwide scale includes things like Clone Wars, which is fucking awful. Anime CG has reached a point where a lot of it really looks pretty good, especially for cartoons on TV. I'm not really seeing where the international competition is so much better in terms of using CG in TV series. Heck, even CG effects in major network TV shows in the US suck balls. Lost? Heroes?

If you're trying to compare it with something like Pixar, that is really silly because it just means your expectations are skewed. The average Japanese anime's 2D animation isn't anywhere close to looking like a Disney or even Fox animated movie. In fact, one of the biggest observances that people who are familiar with western motion picture animation make about anime is that the frame counts are pretty low and it actually looks really choppy to them. Sure, the scenes are often more elaborate and cooler for the people who like that sort of thing, but the actual technical animation is generally considered low quality by international standards.

Food for thought.

Well, you don't have to compare them with Pixar. You can compare them with the video game industry, which often has animation and modeling which makes anime attempts at CGI look subpar.

I mean, I think your point about traditional animation proves my point. Japan does use limited animation, but they've also spent decades animating with its limitations in mind. As far as the art of limited animation goes, Japan is pretty much the top. And that's what makes anime interesting to me, from a visual standpoint. They're better at what they do than anyone else.

So why would I be happy when anime studios take away the thing that makes them visually interesting to me, and replaces it with low-tier CGI? Take the new Berserk films for example; what is there to be excited about with their visuals? I can get all the CGI I want from American films and video games; and it's often good CGI too. I watch anime to see something different, not the same thing but uglier.

I can accept CGI in anime on a practical level, because some things are just prohibitively expensive in traditional animation. And I understand that they'll never be able to afford the best animators or modelers, because all of them work in industries that actually pay. But ultimately, I'm just not excited by mediocre CGI, and I'm afraid my personal preferences are unlikely to change due to persuasive arguments, because tastes rarely work that way.
 

BluWacky

Member
If you're trying to compare it with something like Pixar, that is really silly because it just means your expectations are skewed. The average Japanese anime's 2D animation isn't anywhere close to looking like a Disney or even Fox animated movie. In fact, one of the biggest observances that people who are familiar with western motion picture animation make about anime is that the frame counts are pretty low and it actually looks really choppy to them. Sure, the scenes are often more elaborate and cooler for the people who like that sort of thing, but the actual technical animation is generally considered low quality by international standards.

This is one reason why I think CG doesn't work very well in anime. It's not necessarily the quality of the CG animation itself - I actually think some studios, particularly Satelight, have got some excellent CG animators these days - but the fact that the smoothness of the CG animation doesn't mesh well with the low frame count of the 2D work.

Satelight have "learnt" how to cover this for the most part by trying not to put CG in the same shot as 2D. There are very few parts in Macross Frontier's battle sequences where the two styles are mixed, and even in this sequence from the second film most of the time the CG is used for background work so the disconnect isn't so obvious (there are also a few moments where Ranka is rendered in cel-shaded CG when she needs to blend more with the overall picture).

This doesn't really contend with Branduil's complaint, but I do think that the integration of CG into anime is getting better and it's beginning to complement the 2D work rather than detract from it.
 

duckroll

Member
Accel World - Episode 23

Wow, that was pretty hype. They could have dialed down the endless shounen talking just a little bit though, it was getting rather excessive at one point. The action was pretty fucking sweet though. I think the sword fight could have done without the tons of post-processing effects which kinda made the scene look a bit like a mess even though the actual animation was pretty good. Other than that, it was pretty sweet. Some nice surprising in how the fight pans out too.

Next week: THE END! Finally! I hope they go all out and make the most amazing battles on the show for the climax. I'm also extra excited because it means I can finally stop watching this show! Lol.
 

Jex

Member
Satelight have "learnt" how to cover this for the most part by trying not to put CG in the same shot as 2D. There are very few parts in Macross Frontier's battle sequences where the two styles are mixed, and even in this sequence from the second film most of the time the CG is used for background work so the disconnect isn't so obvious (there are also a few moments where Ranka is rendered in cel-shaded CG when she needs to blend more with the overall picture).

As a sidenote, that's exactly how Sky Crawler's handles all of it's CG and I think it works really well for that movie.
 

duckroll

Member
As a sidenote, that's exactly how Sky Crawler's handles all of it's CG and I think it works really well for that movie.

I think that's part of how the industry is moving forward right now. It's hard to tell where it will go in another few years, but I've noticed that while 10 years ago there was a lot of "integration" to so speak, these days there is more aggressive attempts at making full-CG scenes instead.

- In Fate/Zero, aside from Berserker, which is mostly intentional, the big CG sequences like the dogfight in 14-15 is pretty much full CG, with the camera, the background, and the objects all being created in a virtual environment and being "directed" that way.

- Black Rock Shooter TV also used full CG action sequences which were completely separate from the 2D character animation scenes in the real world.

- Akito looks like the action sequences will mostly be full CG as well.
 

Jex

Member
[Accel World] - 23

That was pretty fucking sweet. My expectations were met in pretty much every area. It was cool to see the Sunrise action animators do their thing, even if it the visuals were hindered, at times, by some weird effects layered on top of them. That's been an issue with this show in the past and it's even affected some big budget movies like Evangelion 2.0. I wish studios would stop doing it.
 

cajunator

Banned
so I guess we really only saw a very small amount of Sky Raker in the show. Its a pity since she was one of my favorite characters. I dont know why but I tend to really like certain characters in shows that only show up for a very brief time.
 

Jex

Member
[Fullmetal Alchemist: Brotherhood] - Episode 60 Eye of Heaven, Gateway of Earth

I'd like to talk about how disappointing the visuals for this episode, especially considering that they're supposed to be depicting one of the most important and spectacular events in the storyline.

The following post will contain visual spoilers, so I've tagged all the images appropriately.

Firstly, before I even get into this particular episode, I'd just like to talk about the character design for this guy:

FMAB601.png


Surely I can't be only one who finds this design a little ridiculous?
Father is the 'final boss' of the show, the most powerful adversary that our heroes will ever have to battle. You'd think that he'd look a little more intimating. Instead he looks like a big pregnant man covered in goofy looking eyeballs. His big belly really doesn't help matters. I think he looks really dumb.

Anyway, that's not what I really want to talk about. I want to talk about
'The Eclipse'. This is the event that all our heroes have been striving to prevent, the promised day where Father will turn all 50 million citizens of Amestris into energy for his grand philosophers stone. Suffice to say, this is essentially the spectacular climax of the series (although, of course, it will go on for a few more episodes). Essentially it represents the triumph of the antagonist over our protagonists, along with the extinction of 50 million peoples lives. As such you'd think that they'd work really hard to make it look impressive. However that is sadly not the case.

http://i835.photobucket.com/albums/zz278/Jexhius/FMAB6018.png

So what's wrong with it, exactly? Well, despite the scale and enormity of what's being presented to the audience it somehow feels rather visually dull. It doesn't help that the only two colours they use to depict this sequence are red and black which don't really work for me because the red looks more like neon pink. I feel that robbing the world of it's natural colours distances us from the events that are going on in them because it doesn't look as real anymore. It looks like everyone's stuck in a nighclub with bad lighting.

It also really overstays it's welcome. I don't know how long the sequence is in the manga, but in the anime it goes on for over five minutes. Like many episodes that take place over the course of this single day, this episode is filled with padding shots, shots that linger far too long, and a variety of 'unnecessary' shots that seem to exist solely to waste as much time as possible. They're so desperate to pad out the time here that they use the same shot twice over the course of the sequence. Firstly here and then here .

The cinematography for the whole sequence really boring and forgettable. It doesn't feel like any thought went into shot construction and there was zero camera movement. This led to a lot of really stale shots where the camera would look straight at a chunk of road, or whatever, and then jitter a little bit. It doesn't track the action, or survey the scene, or look at the event from any interesting angles. It's really flat and lazy. Here's one location that we linger on for a bit:

http://i835.photobucket.com/albums/zz278/Jexhius/FMAB6014.png
http://i835.photobucket.com/albums/zz278/Jexhius/FMAB6016.png

as you can see the camera is just plopped onto the ground so that it can observe the event. It sits there dispassionately while the disaster unfolds and doesn't really bring us closer to the actual people that are suffering, well, unless they're one of the main characters.

They do a pretty bad job of depicting scale too, which is extremely disappointing considering that the most impressive part of this sequence should be the giant body of Father reaching up the sky and grabbing 'God'. However, because there aren't a lot of shots where we can directly compare the size of Father to, say, a city or a mountain, we don't get a good 'feel' for his vast size. I guess the closes we get to that is this shot:

http://i835.photobucket.com/albums/zz278/Jexhius/FMAB6027.png

but it's just about the only one that I can see. Other shots like this one don't completely obfuscate how large he has become because he takes up so much of the shot. Sure, we can see he's big compared to, say, the planet, but it's much more effective to have large things compared to compared to other large things we see in our every day existence e.g. tall buildings. Without some really small things to compare him to directly, e.g. a human being, we don't get the same 'wow' factor that we should.

I must say, I don't really approve of all these wavy arms that stick out of the city in this shot I think they just look rather silly and they aren't menacing in the slightest. Finally, I'd like to say that this extreme long-shot of Father is kind of pointless because I can't really see what's going on.

Just so that people can see that I'm not just nitpicking for the sake of nitpicking, or that my complaints don't make any sense, here's a sequence from early on in the first episode of Giant Robo http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=NkJhYx9JzRI#t=244s. It's another scene where a big beam of light causes a catastrophe. Unlike, say, the scene in FMA:B though, each and every shot is as powerful and effective. It's a really neat action sequence that takes only 30 seconds, as opposed to FMA:B's five minute snoozefest. It's a pretty neat example of how you can do this kind of thing:

GiantRoboParis9.jpg
GiantRoboParis4.jpg


Or, if you feel that that's an unfair comparison because the sequence in FMA:B occurs on a far large scale, than I'm sure a certain well-known movie can provide us with examples of how do to that aspect better as well.

NGEEnding4.jpg
NGEEnding5.jpg
NGEEnding10.jpg


Of course, you may well point out that comparing a TV production to an OVA or movie is inherently unfair and I suppose you're right. However, just because you're working on a TV production doesn't mean that you can get away with having lazy framing, bad pacing and boring cinematography.
 

BGBW

Maturity, bitches.
Natsuyuki Rendezvous - 11

Oh it's over. Well I suppose it at least ended less abruptly than a Miyazaki movie.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top Bottom