[CiSTM]

This whole ordeal is only going to push nationalistic morons like Toru Hashimoto into power. Japan Restoration Party is going to get some real presence in next national/general elections if things keep going like this. Scary.

[Blackace]

Yeah, their government officials must just make annual visits to the graves of convicted war criminals for fun.

Not exactly true

They have tons of we were victims museums

[chickdigger802]

So has china all burned down their Xperia phones I've seen everywhere when I was there yet?

[Kurtofan]

Religion, nationalism, what's the next riots about now?

[ThoseDeafMutes]

Comparing to the other nations the rise of China is way more peaceful. You know which nations I'm talking about. Besides you gotta be kidding yourself if you think China has planed to start the conflict when its only carrier is a rusty 2nd handed one with like 5 months of testing.

I'm not sure which other nations on the rise you're referring to. Modern China has the luxury of being able to rise to superpower status without constant imperialist wars because these wars already occurred in previous Chinese states hundreds or even thousands of years ago. China wasn't always Chinese. I would certainly not consider PRC's rise to power over the competing Chinese factions in the Civil War to be peaceful, and some utterly disgraceful things happened under Mao.

Many (most?) Chinese actually believe that was intentional. Yeah, I don't get it either. Why the fuck would the USA want to bomb a Chinese consulate in Serbia (or where ever that was)? It was totally a stupid mistake. But many in China think it was intentional.

People believe some fuckin' wierd things. We had a Chinese exchange student one time who told me there was a secret war between Russia and China where the Chinese deployed atomic weapons to cause nuclear winter to freeze the Russian soldiers.

Like, I can't even imagine where he would have got the impression that this happened from. It's completely loopy.

[Upsidedown Fuji]

This whole ordeal is only going to push nationalistic morons like Toru Hashimoto into power. Japan Restoration Party is going to get some real presence in next national/general elections if things keep going like this. Scary.

Oh god no. :( Isn't he for scrapping the Japanese post war constitution to return to the "glory days" of Japan? He's almost as loonytunes as Ishihara.

[Matt]

Comparing to the other nations the rise of China is way more peaceful. You know which nations I'm talking about. Besides you gotta be kidding yourself if you think China has planed to start the conflict when its only carrier is a rusty 2nd handed one with like 5 months of testing.

Considering that Mao is the greatest mass murderer in history, that is a very dubious claim.

I guess it could be argued that China rose by largely killing its own people, rather then its neighbors.

But I think the people of South Korea, India, Russia, Vietnam, and Tibet might argue against the idea of a peaceful rising China.

[Zyzyxxz]

Considering that Mao is the greatest mass murderer in history, that is a very dubious claim. I guess it could be argued that China rose by largely killing its own people, rather then its neighbors.

Not that I'm a fan of Mao but weren't most of the people killed off by a famine he caused due to experimental practices in communal agriculture? Which I suppose could be arguable that if people wanted to live they would have worked the land but I don't know enough about the subject to say for sure. I just don't think it would classify him as a mass murderer on the same scale of Hitler who did it deliberately. Then again I don't know how to classify his blunder, maybe just idiocy I suppose.

[Ikael]

Is there some virus out there causing people lose their fucking minds? People going fucking apeshit over a movie about a dead person from 1500 years ago and some rocks they've never seen.

Nationalism and religion, go figure.

Religion, nationalism, what's the next riots about now?

Many experts claim that food prices are about to spike due to the freefall of traditionally safe investments (turmoil = invest in gold, weapons and food), so things can only go worse before they get better, I fear.

[SiteSeer]

Considering that Mao is the greatest mass murderer in history, that is a very dubious claim.

dubious claim, indeed.

[Matt]

Not that I'm a fan of Mao but weren't most of the people killed off by a famine he caused due to experimental practices in communal agriculture? Which I suppose could be arguable that if people wanted to live they would have worked the land but I don't know enough about the subject to say for sure. I just don't think it would classify him as a mass murderer on the same scale of Hitler who did it deliberately. Then again I don't know how to classify his blunder, maybe just idiocy I suppose.

Mao's policys directly lead to the deaths of tens of millions of people. It generally wasn't his specific goal to kill them (well, sometimes it was), but he very clearly had no problem with knowingly killing his people as long as his goals were accomplished.

[Shining Sunshine]

Not that I'm a fan of Mao but weren't most of the people killed off by a famine he caused due to experimental practices in communal agriculture? Which I suppose could be arguable that if people wanted to live they would have worked the land but I don't know enough about the subject to say for sure. I just don't think it would classify him as a mass murderer on the same scale of Hitler who did it deliberately. Then again I don't know how to classify his blunder, maybe just idiocy I suppose.

Well he definitely had killed a lot during the Suppression of the Counter Revolutionaries. He had executed over hundred thousands of people that were suspected of being against his Communist party.

[speculawyer]

Many experts claim that food prices are about to spike due to the freefall of traditionally safe investments (turmoil = invest in gold, weapons and food), so things can only go worse before they get better, I fear.

The droughts this year may cause food prices to rise. Rising food prices annoy people in the western world but in the developing world it can be hunger & starvation. Thus, rising food prices often bring more riots. So look for more riots over the next year in developing nations. Fasten you seatbelt.

[LuCkymoON]

These riots and "missing" politicians is a good example why China will not over take the United States any time soon.

[numble]

You haven't answered my question, Who administered the islands (including Okinawa) during that period of time?

The US. I never disagreed. Where did I disagree?

[_Xenon_]

Considering that Mao is the greatest mass murderer in history, that is a very dubious claim. I guess it could be argued that China rose by largely killing its own people, rather then its neighbors.

And how does that affects China's international relationship? Again I'm not seeing people burning Chinese consulate because what Mao did 50 years ago.

But I think the people of South Korea, India, Russia, Vietnam, and Tibet might argue against the idea of a peaceful rising China.

South Korea, India, Russia, Vietnam:
We are the biggest trade partner with them and we didn't force them to do so. Money talks bullshit walks. If they hate us then why even bother to trade with us?

Tibet:
See, this is why there's not much reason to discuss Chinese business on an internet forum where people just don't know jack shit.

These riots and "missing" politicians is a good example why China will not over take the United States any time soon.

You mean take over a country messing up the middle east, torturing people in gitmo, touching old people's nuts at the airports, and flooding the world market with printed currencies and toxic debts?

Well China may have issues but I don't think it's that low.

[Matt]

And how does that affects China's international relationship? Again I'm not seeing people burning Chinese consulate because what Mao did 50 years ago. South Korea, India, Russia, Vietnam: We are the biggest trade partner with them and we didn't force them to do so. Money talks bullshit walks. If they hate us then why even bother to trade with us? Tibet: See, this is why there's not much reason to discuss Chinese business on an internet forum where people just don't know jack shit.

I was solely addressing your comment that Chinese's rise was a peaceful one.

Edit: And China initiated a military invasion of Tibet that cost lives. Whatever other argument you want to make about Tibet does not change that fact. A military invasion is certainly not a peaceful act (even if you feel it justified).

[Jason Raize '75 - '04]

Nationalism is the stupidest thing there is.

.

[ThoseDeafMutes]

And how does that affects China's international relationship? Again I'm not seeing people burning Chinese consulate because what Mao did 50 years ago.

You said China's rise was peaceful, especially when compared to "other countries on the rise" (which you didn't elaborate on). We're disagreeing. I have no idea why you're babbling about burning embassies or whatever.

[Proelite]

I was solely addressing your comment that Chinese's rise was a peaceful one. Edit: And China initiated a military invasion of Tibet that cost lives. Whatever other argument you want to make about Tibet does not change that fact. A military invasion is certainly not a peaceful act (even if you feel it justified).

The economic rise for China for the past thirty years hasn't been accompanied by an aggressive expansionist policy. That's what most people refer to when they talk about peaceful rise.

[_Xenon_]

I was solely addressing your comment that Chinese's rise was a peaceful one. Edit: And China initiated a military invasion of Tibet that cost lives. Whatever other argument you want to make about Tibet does not change that fact. A military invasion is certainly not a peaceful act (even if you feel it justified).

It's a part of China since 1294. What's your point? A civil war costing lives?

You said China's rise was peaceful, especially when compared to "other countries on the rise" (which you didn't elaborate on). We're disagreeing. I have no idea why you're babbling about burning embassies or whatever.

Because I wasn't comparing to "other countries on the rise"?

[Canis lupus]

.

Especially if you watch videos about space and how small we all are, it makes the concept of nationalism meaningless.

[Matt]

The economic rise for China for the past thirty years hasn't been accompanied by an aggressive expansionist policy. That's what most people refer to when they talk about peaceful rise.

For the past 30 years, that's true. If you were to say 40 years it would not be :-)

And as a counter point, the United State's rise to sole superpower was also done "peacefully" under that definition. The last time the U.S. aquired any territory, it was in 1978, when the people of the Northern Mariana Islands voted to become part of the United States.

[Matt]

It's a part of China since 1294. What's your point? A civil war costing lives?

Weather you consider it a civil war or the invasion of a separate nation is immaterial to the point. I would never say that the North won the American Civil War "peacefully."

[Proelite]

I was not aware that China conquered another country for the past 100 years.

[maquiladora]

Just saw this on Kyodo

15:48 17 September URGENT: 1,000 Chinese boats to arrive in waters near Senkakus Mon.: report

[Proelite]

For the past 30 years, that's true. If you were to say 40 years it would not be :-) And as a counter point, the United State's rise to sole superpower was also done "peacefully" under that definition. The last time the U.S. aquired any territory, it was in 1978, when the people of the Northern Mariana Islands voted to become part of the United States.

Peaceful compared to past super powers such as Rome, Han, Mongol, etc.

[_Xenon_]

Weather you consider it a civil war or the invasion of a separate nation is immaterial to the point. I would never say that the North won the American Civil War "peacefully."

Yes I agree, it's a violent civil war. Cheers!!

And what does it have anything to do with the countries that are trading with China today (that's like almost everyone)?

[Matt]

I was not aware that China conquered another country for the past 100 years.

Depends how you feel about Tibet, or (to a lesser extent) Aksai Chin.

[ChiTownBuffalo]

Now this is about how awful Mao is. Not arguing that point, well played WDF.

[Matt]

Yes I agree, it's a violent civil war. Cheers!! And what does it have anything to do with the countries that are trading with China today (that's like almost everyone)?

Once again, you are the one that said China rose peacefully. I am countering that assertion.

[Matt]

Peaceful compared to past super powers such as Rome, Han, Mongol, etc.

That's a very narrow way of looking at it. What is today considered to be China was indeed forged by military conquest. Modern China just benefited off the work done previously.

[Proelite]

That's a very narrow way of looking at it. What is today considered to be China was indeed forged by military conquest. Modern China just benefited off the work done previously.

So peaceful rise? of the past 30 years, but violent and brutal rise (and fall) of the past 1000 years? :D

[_Xenon_]

Once again, you are the one that said China rose peacefully. I am countering that assertion.

Look you are the one messing around with the concept of peaceful rising. It means "rises without going aggressively against the international society". Last time I checked China wasn't one messing around other countries government or installing China friendly leaders. Last time I checked the consulate that was burned down to the ground wasn't Chinese.

Then you have this delusion that as long as people die regardless when where why, it's just not peaceful. Dude, just don't act as if this whole world is your backyard and everybody is supposed to be your folks.

[Matt]

So peaceful rise? of the past 30 years, but violent and brutal rise (and fall) of the past 1000 years? :D

lol, sure, that's a compromise I can live with.

[numble]

Got this from Louisa Lim's (NPR China correspondent) Twitter:

https://twitter.com/limlouisa/status...06922952462336

Video of 1000 Chinese fishing boats heading to islands including Diaoyu, complete w farewell ceremony via@austinramzy http://t.co/ykuR7ofx

[Matt]

Look you are the one messing around with the concept of peaceful rising. It means "rises without going aggressively against the international society". Last time I checked China wasn't one messing around other countries government or installing China friendly leaders. Last time I checked the consulate that was burned down to the ground wasn't Chinese. Then you have this delusion that as long as people die regardless when where why, it's just not peaceful. Dude, just don't act as if this whole world is your backyard and everybody is supposed to be your folks.

China absolutely does, in fact, influence foreign governments. Just look at what's going on in Africa. As for a more active role, China certainly actively supported and trained the Mujahidin to fight in Afganistan against the Soviets.

As for your second paragraph, I really don't know what you are trying to say. If there is military force exerted, that is not a peaceful act, period. That is in no way a moral judgment, just a factual one.

[Karma Kramer]

Just saw this thread... is this possibly leading to a serious conflict or?

[Natetan]

Here is were you have it wrong, see Japan has been administering that island for a century so it is practically theirs. If China decides to send in their coastguard (and subsequently their Navy) it will be viewed as an Invasion (at least the Japanese will make that case) and if it is presented that way in the media the Treaty will then come into question. The US can't be seen floundering to protect its (2?) closest ally, especially when you consider that the reason Japan does not have a large military is because of the assurance that the United States will protect them. EDIT: Also this report from Reuters (only 12 minutes old) confirms that the island are indeed covered under the treaty.

i guess i dont see why it matters if china has claims to the islands from hundreds of years ago. the japanese have it now and have had it under there control for some way for more than a century.

too bad china.

[Proelite]

Got this from Louisa Lim's (NPR China correspondent) Twitter: https://twitter.com/limlouisa/status...06922952462336

That's epic.

[DXB-KNIGHT]

Democrats VS Republicans
China VS Japan
Argentina VS UK
Syria people VS Syrian Gov
Israel VS Iran
Kamiya VS Salty Fans

World War 3 imminent, hopefully NOT :(

[Doc Holliday]

What has japan ever done to china??? oh yeah, that....

If the world can give Germany a pass and get over the shit they pulled then china/Japan can get over their bullshit.

[numble]

This Xinhua video is reporting that over 10,000 fishing ships have departed for the islands, from Fujian, Zhejiang, etc. and about 1,000 of them are expected to arrive this afternoon (but it's already afternoon?):
http://video.sina.com.cn/p/news/c/v/...261866163.html

Got it from this Twitter account:
https://twitter.com/MissXQ/statuses/247628272454737920

[Hazaro]

Can't wait for updates when I wake up :/

[Dynamite Shikoku]

This Xinhua video is reporting that over 10,000 fishing ships have departed for the islands, from Fujian, Zhejiang, etc. and about 1,000 of them are expected to arrive this afternoon (but it's already afternoon?): http://video.sina.com.cn/p/news/c/v/...261866163.html Got it from this Twitter account: https://twitter.com/MissXQ/statuses/247628272454737920

Gotta catch em all, Japan

[sprsk]

Curious to see what will happen when those ships land. I hope it doesn't come to war.

[Neo C.]

Don't. There are far more level-headed and calm Chinese people out there than there are assholes rioting.

I agree, but Anony still isn't wrong. It's a fact that with riots like these, the mainlanders do a helluva job to make the rest of us look stupid. It has the similar effect the riots in muslim countries do to the reputation of other muslims.

[maquiladora]

Curious to see what will happen when those ships land. I hope it doesn't come to war.

They won't land, probably just sail into the disputed waters as a giant "fuck you" to Japan.

[numble]

Gotta catch em all, Japan

Literally

[jaxword]

Curious to see what will happen when those ships land. I hope it doesn't come to war.

Not a full-fledged nuclear war, no.

Possibly some angry violent political exchanges.