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polyh3dron
couldn't find a lab with German shepherds
(10-17-2012, 04:22 PM)
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Originally Posted by GashPrex

this is one of those weird things that people think its an awesomely big deal - but to the rest of us it really doesn't mean anything.

Yeah he only went out there and told a story full of brazen lies because he knew the general public would be too stupid to call him on it.. Ahh who cares ill still vote for him because NOBAMA
speculawyer
Banned
(10-17-2012, 04:23 PM)
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Wine Librarian ‏@winelibrarian
I'm still undecided which was more offensive: binders of women, single moms cause gun violence, or equal pay turning into cooking dinner.
Retweeted by PZ Myers

Ouch.
FantasticMrFoxdie
Mumber
(10-17-2012, 04:24 PM)
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"Oh, we’ve got an investment plan..."

pigeon
fuck yo restraining order
(10-17-2012, 04:25 PM)
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Originally Posted by Tex117

Though I would take issue with the "post-debate lies, etc." I would MUCH rather hear news on those topis as opposed to the "binder full of women."

Can someone explain why the phrase was offensive? I took it as he was actively searching for female cabniet members and saying that many were qualified.

Can someone show me the error of my logic?

Women don't fit in binders.

I mean, seriously. If he had said "binders full of RESUMES" there wouldn't be a meme. "Binders full of women" reduces women to what they can fit on an 8.5 by 11 sheet of paper with three holes in it. People aren't their CVs -- only employers, very WEALTHY employers who don't interact with most of their staff, think of them that way.

For the record, it would've been just as bad to say "binders full of people," but the way he said it fit with the narrative of his answer as being basically inhospitable to women in the workforce, since his solution to fair pay is "I pay women fairly!" rather than, say, how he might ensure others do so. A consistent theme of Mitt's responses to problems is that, instead of explaining how society might solve it, he explains how HE had solved it previously with his millions of dollars -- this is the same thing that happened with Paul Ryan's line about the car accident and Mitt paying for that guy's bills. If Mitt's proposing to hire every woman in America, then his willingness to pay them fairly resolves the problem, but if not then he needs an actual policy solution.
Foxy Fox 39
Banned
(10-17-2012, 04:28 PM)
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Originally Posted by polyh3dron

If Obama told a lie this brazen in the debate, Fox News would be screaming bloody murder right now and people would be calling for him to be impeached or something.

Instead, they just find a way to say that things he said that were accurate, may not have told the whole story and that's just as bad as a bald face lie from Romney.. Love dat false equivalency.

uh huh...
polyh3dron
couldn't find a lab with German shepherds
(10-17-2012, 04:29 PM)
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Originally Posted by Foxy Fox 39

uh huh...

Uh huh.
Funky Papa
FUNK-Y-PPA-4
(10-17-2012, 04:31 PM)
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Originally Posted by Dariee

http://bindersfullofwomen.tumblr.com/

This is terrifying



It's actually for sale on eBay
WickedCobra03
Member
(10-17-2012, 04:32 PM)
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Pige, you cannot change your avatar... I had to double take to see who it was.

Anyway, I think the "binder full of women" comment is getting a little blown out of proportion, but I think it can be a little telling of his deeper psyche and his feelings toward women and more importantly people in general. He sees people as just a sheet of paper in a binder than he can add to his corporate machine.

I am just not a fan of Romney's not being straight about his policies is the biggest slant against him. If you are going to be a crazy person, be a crazy person, don't flip on points just to swoon a set of people to later change your policies again. I cannot even respect you as a person.
Tex117
Banned
(10-17-2012, 04:33 PM)

Originally Posted by pigeon

Women don't fit in binders.

I mean, seriously. If he had said "binders full of RESUMES" there wouldn't be a meme. "Binders full of women" reduces women to what they can fit on an 8.5 by 11 sheet of paper with three holes in it. People aren't their CVs -- only employers, very WEALTHY employers who don't interact with most of their staff, think of them that way.

For the record, it would've been just as bad to say "binders full of people," but the way he said it fit with the narrative of his answer as being basically inhospitable to women in the workforce, since his solution to fair pay is "I pay women fairly!" rather than, say, how he might ensure others do so. A consistent theme of Mitt's responses to problems is that, instead of explaining how society might solve it, he explains how HE had solved it previously with his millions of dollars -- this is the same thing that happened with Paul Ryan's line about the car accident and Mitt paying for that guy's bills. If Mitt's proposing to hire every woman in America, then his willingness to pay them fairly resolves the problem, but if not then he needs an actual policy solution.

As for the comment itself (and not commenting on the good point you made in your second paragraph (though I don't think most people dig that far into the comment)), I mean...sure, I guess.

I took it as the very accurate way someone gets hired to do anything. The recuriter, headhunter, HR person, drops a binder full of qualified canadites on the employers desk to determine who to bring in to interview. How else do you hire someone? I don't think for one second that Romney believes women...or people...can be reduced to an eight by eleven sheet of paper; however, that is how you begin the hiring process.

I just don't get the outrage.

IMO, if this is what dominates the news cycle (a funny, non-issue I think when its all said and done...not to say his stance on women is a non-issue, just this comment), and not the other things Romney said, than Romney in effect, gets off pretty easy.
AuthenticM
Member
(10-17-2012, 04:36 PM)
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He didn't even answer the fucking question.
GashPrex
NeoGaf-Gold™ Member
(10-17-2012, 04:37 PM)
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Originally Posted by polyh3dron

Yeah he only went out there and told a story full of brazen lies because he knew the general public would be too stupid to call him on it.. Ahh who cares ill still vote for him because NOBAMA

Just to be clear I think it was a complete non-answer to the question (but not a brazen lie) and that's my biggest problem with it:

q: how will you achieve equal pay for women?
a: i hired lots of women

is a nonsensical answer (not that obama's answer was any better)
sangreal
Member
(10-17-2012, 04:37 PM)
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Originally Posted by Tex117

As for the comment itself (and not commenting on the good point you made in your second paragraph (though I don't think most people dig that far into the comment)), I mean...sure, I guess.

I took it as the very accurate way someone gets hired to do anything. The recuriter, headhunter, HR person, drops a binder full of qualified canadites on the employers desk to determine who to bring in to interview. How else do you hire someone? I don't think for one second that Romney believes women...or people...can be reduced to an eight by eleven sheet of paper; however, that is how you begin the hiring process.

I just don't get the outrage.

IMO, if this is what dominates the news cycle (a funny, non-issue I think when its all said and done...not to say his stance on women is a non-issue, just this comment), and not the other things Romney said, than Romney in effect, gets off pretty easy.

You keep ignoring the fact (and the point of the OP) that the story Romney told (and you keep repeating) was made up. He didn't go looking for more women; a 3rd party felt there weren't enough women so they gave him a binder full of qualified candidates unsolicited.

What actually happened was that in 2002 -- prior to the election, not even knowing yet whether it would be a Republican or Democratic administration -- a bipartisan group of women in Massachusetts formed MassGAP to address the problem of few women in senior leadership positions in state government. There were more than 40 organizations involved with the Massachusetts Women's Political Caucus (also bipartisan) as the lead sponsor.
They did the research and put together the binder full of women qualified for all the different cabinet positions, agency heads, and authorities and commissions. They presented this binder to Governor Romney when he was elected.

I have written about this before, in various contexts; tonight I've checked with several people directly involved in the MassGAP effort who confirm that this history as I've just presented it is correct -- and that Romney's claim tonight, that he asked for such a study, is false.

Tex117
Banned
(10-17-2012, 04:37 PM)

Originally Posted by AuthenticM

He didn't even answer the fucking question.

Which is worth talking about. The comment itself, I just don't get it.
pigeon
fuck yo restraining order
(10-17-2012, 04:41 PM)
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Originally Posted by WickedCobra03

Pige, you cannot change your avatar... I had to double take to see who it was.

Anyway, I think the "binder full of women" comment is getting a little blown out of proportion, but I think it can be a little telling of his deeper psyche and his feelings toward women and more importantly people in general. He sees people as just a sheet of paper in a binder than he can add to his corporate machine.

Haha, sorry. It's changing again! I remembered what I originally wanted to change it to. And I absolutely agree with this point.

Originally Posted by Tex117

As for the comment itself (and not commenting on the good point you made in your second paragraph (though I don't think most people dig that far into the comment)), I mean...sure, I guess.

I took it as the very accurate way someone gets hired to do anything. The recuriter, headhunter, HR person, drops a binder full of qualified canadites on the employers desk to determine who to bring in to interview. How else do you hire someone? I don't think for one second that Romney believes women...or people...can be reduced to an eight by eleven sheet of paper; however, that is how you begin the hiring process.

I just don't get the outrage.

Don't take this the wrong way, but I'm guessing you've done a lot of hiring. I'm not saying you're wrong! I'm just saying that I think that's a perspective many don't share.

Most Americans have spent almost all their time on the other side of the interview desk. They don't think of themselves as a resume -- in fact, most of them probably resent the fact that their resume is such an important factor in getting an interview, because making a resume is a frustrating process with unclear but important rules to follow, and Americans mostly went to American schools. I suspect almost everybody believes that there are jobs they would get if they could get an interview, but they wouldn't be able to because the boss would throw their resume in the trash immediately. So Romney's comment falls right into that resentment of corporate hiring practices -- which are, no offense, fundamentally dehumanizing. People can't be reduced to their accomplishments.

(And yes, as others have noted, it's also a lie, but I don't think that's critical to why the phrase caught on.)

Originally Posted by Tex117

IMO, if this is what dominates the news cycle (a funny, non-issue I think when its all said and done...not to say his stance on women is a non-issue, just this comment), and not the other things Romney said, than Romney in effect, gets off pretty easy.

I think this is true, but I also don't think it's going to dominate the news cycle. The Libya fact-check is more likely to do that. But it'll swarm over the parallel social media news cycle. Romney has enough trouble with social media without giving them any more to eat.
codhand
Member
(10-17-2012, 04:44 PM)
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Originally Posted by isoquant

This meme is terrible.

Doesn't matter if it is.
Tex117
Banned
(10-17-2012, 04:44 PM)

Originally Posted by sangreal

You keep ignoring the fact (and the point of the OP) that the story Romney told (and you keep repeating) was made up. He didn't go looking for more women, a 3rd party felt there weren't enough women so they gave him a binder full of qualified candidates unsolicited.

And you missed my question. Im will aware of the OP, but I wasn't going to start a new thread on "please explain why this phrase is offensive."

The story being made up is a good topic to kick around...it is at least substantive.

I was merely trying to have explained to me why this phrase is patently "offensive." Though I have received some attempts which I appreciate I can only come up with "insenstive" at best.

edit: meh, thought better of it.
Last edited by Tex117; 10-17-2012 at 04:46 PM.
SJRB
Member
(10-17-2012, 04:45 PM)
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I'm glad this thread is made, I've been reading and seeing images of "binders of women" all day but had no idea what the hell it meant.
Foxy Fox 39
Banned
(10-17-2012, 04:46 PM)
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Originally Posted by polyh3dron

Uh huh.

http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-me...n-hall-debate/
FlashbladeGAF
Member
(10-17-2012, 04:47 PM)
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Originally Posted by Tex117

As for the comment itself (and not commenting on the good point you made in your second paragraph (though I don't think most people dig that far into the comment)), I mean...sure, I guess.

I took it as the very accurate way someone gets hired to do anything. The recuriter, headhunter, HR person, drops a binder full of qualified canadites on the employers desk to determine who to bring in to interview. How else do you hire someone? I don't think for one second that Romney believes women...or people...can be reduced to an eight by eleven sheet of paper; however, that is how you begin the hiring process.

I just don't get the outrage.

IMO, if this is what dominates the news cycle (a funny, non-issue I think when its all said and done...not to say his stance on women is a non-issue, just this comment), and not the other things Romney said, than Romney in effect, gets off pretty easy.

The comment just sounded like a silly story to begin with.

If we were to believe the story, Women from the beginning were excluded from the application process or, even worse, were not qualified for the position. So Mitt had to GO OUT OF HIS WAY and find qualified female staffers because they weren't knocking at his door like the rest of the male applicants

Originally Posted by Mitt Romney

And I – and I went to my staff, and I said, "How come all the people for these jobs are – are all men." They said: "Well, these are the people that have the qualifications."

silly

jmdajr
Member
(10-17-2012, 04:47 PM)
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I find it all very humorous.
Seanspeed
Banned
(10-17-2012, 04:47 PM)
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Originally Posted by Tex117

Which is worth talking about. The comment itself, I just don't get it.

I agree. I dont get what was offensive or insensitive or anything.
methane47
Member
(10-17-2012, 04:51 PM)
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Don't polygamist Mormons shop around a Book with Potential wives in it?
I can't remember what they call it.
grimshawish
Banned
(10-17-2012, 04:52 PM)
Mittens is honestly the most out of touch and stupid man I've heard from in a while.
It would be really funny having him as US president but I know that the vultures are already seeing another head they can manipulate and play with. Who knows, maybe he'll surprise people - but his Libya shit shows how little he actually cares; he only wants the job because of its title and gravitas - not its responsibilities.

Originally Posted by commedieu

Its really upsetting that none of the Post Debate lies make any news...

Just fun memes and articles for leftists, but nothing more. I'm sure facebook is already full of "Romney Aced it again! Definitely voting for him based on this debate..and nothing else.."

Romney is too easy a target to call out. The US media want to fan the flames to build viewership up until the election and then into the President's first year (first 100 days and all that are as commercialised as Mothers Day).

They let the candidates talk; not calling them out on anything as it means that when the other side calls them out instead - they get more reports, quotes and viewers out of it all.
Tex117
Banned
(10-17-2012, 04:53 PM)

Originally Posted by pigeon


Don't take this the wrong way, but I'm guessing you've done a lot of hiring. I'm not saying you're wrong! I'm just saying that I think that's a perspective many don't share.

Most Americans have spent almost all their time on the other side of the interview desk. They don't think of themselves as a resume -- in fact, most of them probably resent the fact that their resume is such an important factor in getting an interview, because making a resume is a frustrating process with unclear but important rules to follow, and Americans mostly went to American schools. I suspect almost everybody believes that there are jobs they would get if they could get an interview, but they wouldn't be able to because the boss would throw their resume in the trash immediately. So Romney's comment falls right into that resentment of corporate hiring practices -- which are, no offense, fundamentally dehumanizing. People can't be reduced to their accomplishments.

(And yes, as others have noted, it's also a lie, but I don't think that's critical to why the phrase caught on.)



I think this is true, but I also don't think it's going to dominate the news cycle. The Libya fact-check is more likely to do that. But it'll swarm over the parallel social media news cycle. Romney has enough trouble with social media without giving them any more to eat.

Ha, not taken wrong at all! I've been on both sides of the desk. Im with you, it sucks that resumes mean so much, but those are the rules we all play by to get jobs. I've spent most of my 20's chasing the right paper and titles to fill that damn 8x11. It is dehumanizing, but is there another way to go through so many applicants? You can't interview them all.

I think you propose the best explanation of why the phrase may be offesive. . . I guess I just took it as thats the way getting a job works. Resumes, interview skills, creditials, pedigrees, matter.

As I stated, sure, that being a lie is a topic to kick around. I also agree with you. I don't think it is critical as to why it caught on, and Im just trying to figure out why.

BTW, your post was very good. Im satisfied that I understand the issue (if there even is one) now. So thank you for your post!

The Libya fact check is a much more important question...on a side note, I don't think it is as important to voters as the economny, but its worth talking about.
Last edited by Tex117; 10-17-2012 at 04:55 PM.
Foxy Fox 39
Banned
(10-17-2012, 04:53 PM)
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Originally Posted by Tex117

As for the comment itself (and not commenting on the good point you made in your second paragraph (though I don't think most people dig that far into the comment)), I mean...sure, I guess.

I took it as the very accurate way someone gets hired to do anything. The recuriter, headhunter, HR person, drops a binder full of qualified canadites on the employers desk to determine who to bring in to interview. How else do you hire someone? I don't think for one second that Romney believes women...or people...can be reduced to an eight by eleven sheet of paper; however, that is how you begin the hiring process.

I just don't get the outrage.

IMO, if this is what dominates the news cycle (a funny, non-issue I think when its all said and done...not to say his stance on women is a non-issue, just this comment), and not the other things Romney said, than Romney in effect, gets off pretty easy.



lol...I'd agree there but its such an odd gaffe.
Open Source
Banned
(10-17-2012, 04:55 PM)

Originally Posted by sangreal

You keep ignoring the fact (and the point of the OP) that the story Romney told (and you keep repeating) was made up. He didn't go looking for more women; a 3rd party felt there weren't enough women so they gave him a binder full of qualified candidates unsolicited.

It's not impossible for both to be true.

Trying to make a big deal out of stuff like this is loser talk. Bodes well for Romney's prospects in the election if people fixate on minor quibbles and technicalities.
sangreal
Member
(10-17-2012, 05:06 PM)
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Originally Posted by Open Source

It's not impossible for both to be true.

Trying to make a big deal out of stuff like this is loser talk. Bodes well for Romney's prospects in the election if people fixate on minor quibbles and technicalities.

Yes it is. This is what Romney said:

I went to a number of women's groups and said, "Can you help us find folks," and they brought us whole binders full of women.

The women's group says they gave it to him unsolicited. How do you propose both are true?
FlashbladeGAF
Member
(10-17-2012, 05:07 PM)
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Originally Posted by Open Source

It's not impossible for both to be true.

Trying to make a big deal out of stuff like this is loser talk. Bodes well for Romney's prospects in the election if people fixate on minor quibbles and technicalities.

His whole view on Women's rights are the issue

The "Binders of Women" story is definitely the fun little moment, but the rest of his little speech paints a clearer picture of how Romney thinks of Women

A woman asks about equal pay in the workplace and Mitt goes on to talk about his great quest for finding "the missing" qualified women and how employers should be flexible so that woman can get off early so they can go home and get in the kitchen and cook

I'd bring up abortion but he keeps flip flopping
Last edited by FlashbladeGAF; 10-17-2012 at 05:10 PM.
Htown
STOP SHITTING ON MY MOTHER'S HEADSTONE
(10-17-2012, 05:18 PM)
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Originally Posted by claviertekky

Okay. This got me.
winter
Member
(10-17-2012, 05:34 PM)

Originally Posted by Funky Papa

This is terrifying



It's actually for sale on eBay

What is with these paintings? Is David Lynch painting these things?

Fuck. They unnerve me in a way that only Francis Bacon's paintings have. The one with Paul Ryan and the pancakes coming out of his fucking abdomen is something out of a Cronenberg body horror film.
polyh3dron
couldn't find a lab with German shepherds
(10-17-2012, 05:40 PM)
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Originally Posted by Open Source

It's not impossible for both to be true.

Trying to make a big deal out of stuff like this is loser talk. Bodes well for Romney's prospects in the election if people fixate on minor quibbles and technicalities.

It's not a minor technicality, it was a brazen lie.
BlackClouds
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(10-17-2012, 05:55 PM)
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Apparently in the HBO show Big Love, old men where shown binders of young women as a catelog for new brides. Maybe this is a Mormon thing.
Baconsammy
Banned
(10-17-2012, 05:58 PM)

Originally Posted by AuthenticM

He didn't even answer the fucking question.

There's nothing good in it for him if he answers that question directly. You can't admit directly that you have zero respect for working women. Especially after you've already said you know better what a woman should do with a vagina than she or her doctor does.
Open Source
Banned
(10-17-2012, 06:11 PM)

Originally Posted by FlashbladeGAF

His whole view on Women's rights are the issue

The "Binders of Women" story is definitely the fun little moment, but the rest of his little speech paints a clearer picture of how Romney thinks of Women

A woman asks about equal pay in the workplace and Mitt goes on to talk about his great quest for finding "the missing" qualified women and how employers should be flexible so that woman can get off early so they can go home and get in the kitchen and cook

I'd bring up abortion but he keeps flip flopping

He took the topic of equal pay and made it about women in the workplace generally. The implication is that there are issues beyond pay that are important to working women - including some that are more important to them than to men.

Whether he was given resumes or asked for them, the fact is that he thought it was important to make hiring them a priority. Any quibble about who approached whom is irrelevant to your average voter - it's only the true believers on the left who care a whit about it.

"Equal pay" is such a subjective thing because each individual's qualifications, salary negotiation skills,and the benefits they value, including salary, are different. It's fertile ground for lawyers, though.
Anton Sugar
Member
(10-17-2012, 06:12 PM)
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Originally Posted by FlashbladeGAF

His whole view on Women's rights are the issue

The "Binders of Women" story is definitely the fun little moment, but the rest of his little speech paints a clearer picture of how Romney thinks of Women

A woman asks about equal pay in the workplace and Mitt goes on to talk about his great quest for finding "the missing" qualified women and how employers should be flexible so that woman can get off early so they can go home and get in the kitchen and cook

I'd bring up abortion but he keeps flip flopping

This. The "cook dinner" comment was beyond offensive.
polyh3dron
couldn't find a lab with German shepherds
(10-17-2012, 06:33 PM)
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Originally Posted by Open Source

Whether he was given resumes or asked for them, the fact is that he thought it was important to make hiring them a priority. Any quibble about who approached whom is irrelevant to your average voter - it's only the true believers on the left who care a whit about it..

"True believers on the left"?

He said that he and his staff commissioned this compiling of the binders due to a concern over a disproportionate amount of men on staff. This was a lie.

He also put the women from said binders in departments he didn't care about and in positions where they reportedly didn't do anything.

How is this just a quibble?
FlashbladeGAF
Member
(10-17-2012, 07:00 PM)
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Originally Posted by Open Source

He took the topic of equal pay and made it about women in the workplace generally. The implication is that there are issues beyond pay that are important to working women - including some that are more important to them than to men.

Whether he was given resumes or asked for them, the fact is that he thought it was important to make hiring them a priority. Any quibble about who approached whom is irrelevant to your average voter - it's only the true believers on the left who care a whit about it.

"Equal pay" is such a subjective thing because each individual's qualifications, salary negotiation skills,and the benefits they value, including salary, are different. It's fertile ground for lawyers, though.

Fact from a bullshit story?

Originally Posted by Mitt Romney

An important topic, and one which I learned a great deal about, particularly as I was serving as governor of my state, because I had the chance to pull together a cabinet and all the applicants seemed to be men.

And I – and I went to my staff, and I said, "How come all the people for these jobs are – are all men." They said: "Well, these are the people that have the qualifications."



And I said: "Well, gosh, can't we – can't we find some – some women that are also qualified?"



And – and so we – we took a concerted effort to go out and find women who had backgrounds that could be qualified to become members of our cabinet. I went to a number of women's groups and said: "Can you help us find folks," and they brought us whole binders full of women.


I recognized that if you're going to have women in the workforce that sometimes you need to be more flexible. My chief of staff, for instance, had two kids that were still in school. She said: 'I can't be here until 7 or 8 o'clock at night. I need to be able to get home at 5 o'clock so I can be there for making dinner for my kids and being with them when they get home from school.' So we said fine. Let's have a flexible schedule so you can have hours that work for you.


We're going to have to have employers in the new economy, in the economy I'm going to bring to play, that are going to be so anxious to get good workers they're going to be anxious to hire women.


I mentioned 3.5 million women, more now in poverty than four years ago.


What we can do to help young women and women of all ages is to have a strong economy, so strong that employers that are looking to find good employees and bringing them into their workforce and adapting to a flexible work schedule that gives women opportunities that they would otherwise not be able to afford.

I don't believe that bureaucrats in Washington should tell someone whether they can use contraceptives or not. And I don't believe employers should tell someone whether they could have contraceptive care of not. Every woman in America should have access to contraceptives.


He makes it sound like it's some big quest. As if there were NO qualified female workers who applied for any job related to his administration so he had to go as far as to look into MULTIPLE women's groups to find qualified female workers.

He also makes it sound like a story you make up to tell kids.

I mean seriously... There are binders full of qualified women and Romney couldn't find a few on his own before going to the women's groups
Monocle
Member
(10-18-2012, 07:04 AM)
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Originally Posted by claviertekky

Let's be honest, this one is pretty great.

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