NeoGAF

Originally Posted by Steve Youngblood

The Wii U is out there right now with games that can be played and measured against other games. People are taking apart the hardware and trying to reach hard numbers as to what it's capable of. I'm not sure if I understand what you're trying to argue. It's hardware available to the public that is being critiqued. I know there has been some positive commentary, but there's been plenty of negative commentary and skepticism as well.

The Wii U isn't an enigma wrapped in a mystery that can only be observed behind closed doors.

Launch games vs. EOL games for current platforms? Great comparison. And, as I stated before, measuring the performance of individual components does not matter much if you don't look at the system holistically. Couldn't do it for the Genesis/SNES, couldn't do it for the Dreamcast/PS2/XBox, couldn't do it for the PS3/360. Why do you think you can do it now?

Originally Posted by Refreshment.01

Speculation and asumptions? No cRIPticon, they are based on facts. Look at the ported software running worse than a 7 year old console.

Now the bar has been moved back, instead of more powerful than 360/PS3 the defence strives to prove that at least on equal grounds of performance.

Ported versions compared to the game on another console that has been optimized for said console? On technology that has been optimized and refined over a multi year run? Uh, ok then...

Originally Posted by Raonak

Underpowered device is underpowered.

It's basically gonna be a box to play HD nintendo games and thats pretty much it.


makes me really question that Zelda tech demo we saw.

I only question how plain and drab the Zelda tech demo will look compared to Zelda U. :)

Well, I guess I also question whether or not Nintendo will reverse some of the design trends that reached problematic levels with Skyward Sword. (Pacing, layout, filler, and tutorial issues not the controls.)

Originally Posted by Jackben

He's not banned, his name is just gray and he has a joke tag, like Wario64.

I know this might sound blasphemous, but I personally think drinky's banned tag should be abandoned, as I think it's run his course. I can no longer even tell anymore who actually is falling for it, and who is facetiously just going "lol, that ban sure was quick" to show off that they're in on the joke.

But that's just me.

Originally Posted by soulassssns

So who is this guy and why should I take what he found as fact?

This guy is a legendary hacker. I think he was involved with/spearheaded some of the Wii homebrew efforts. You would be wise to listen to and believe what he says.

Originally Posted by Raonak

Underpowered device is underpowered.

It's basically gonna be a box to play HD nintendo games and thats pretty much it.


makes me really question that Zelda tech demo we saw.

Those tech demos are realistically what we could expect on this generation. Nothing mindblowing now. The Zelda one looked awesome for Zelda in HD but not really good. Not sure why you would doubt the WU's capability to output that.

Originally Posted by The Abominable Snowman

Those tech demos are realistically what we could expect on this generation. Nothing mindblowing now. The Zelda one looked awesome for Zelda in HD but not really good. Not sure why you would doubt the WU's capability to output that.

Because! GPU/CPU speeds. Haven't you heard? ;)

Originally Posted by cRIPticon

Launch games vs. EOL games for current platforms? Great comparison.

Yes, it's very common for newer -- purportedly better in at least a marginal capacity -- hardware to struggle to keep up with tech from seven years ago. I don't know why people are skeptical in light of the common understanding that it takes a while for new tech to be understood. I'm sure it was just that third parties haven't had enough time. This can be evidenced by the great stuff that first parties have shown now in the eighteen months since the console has been unveiled.

So I'm a fool for wanting a new snes? Lol

Originally Posted by Steve Youngblood

Yes, it's very common for newer -- purportedly better in at least a marginal capacity -- hardware to struggle to keep up with tech from seven years ago. I don't know why people are skeptical in light of the common understanding that it takes a while for new tech to be understood. I'm sure it was just that third parties haven't had enough time. This can be evidenced by the great stuff that first parties have shown now in the eighteen months since the console has been unveiled.

Originally Posted by Orayn

We really don't know how much has or hasn't been changed. Even Broadway featured some architectural updates over Gekko, though no changes large enough to break GC compatibility.

You sure about that? I thought broadway was literally the GC chip overclocked with no structural changes or additional functionality?

Originally Posted by Steve Youngblood

Yes, it's very common for newer -- purportedly better in at least a marginal capacity -- hardware to struggle to keep up with tech from seven years ago. I don't know why people are skeptical in light of the common understanding that it takes a while for new tech to be understood. I'm sure it was just that third parties haven't had enough time. This can be evidenced by the great stuff that first parties have shown now in the eighteen months since the console has been unveiled.

You there! Put a freacking sarcasm spolier.

You are way to smart and rational to post the above atrocity. Edit that spoiler there now please :D

Originally Posted by Log4Girlz

So I'm a fool for wanting a new snes? Lol

Just Ebay one, i would happily sale you mine but shipping costs are tooo high.

Originally Posted by Oblivion

You sure about that? I thought broadway was literally the GC chip overclocked with no structural changes or additional functionality?

Could be wrong, just thought I read something about it having a few new instructions.

Originally Posted by Fenderputty

So then why release a console that's handeling current ports "just fine" when the next generation of pS3/360 consoles are due to come out. It sounds like last gen all over again.

It does, indeed. My post was meant to relay disappointment, not support, for Nintendo's decisions. It's obvious now, post-launch, that they and I disagree strongly on what is needed to "win back 'core' gamers", something they claim to want to do.

Either that, or they don't in fact want to do so, which I suspect is more likely. I've often got the impression that Nintendo resents the adult gaming community and thinks that, if their audience was only children, that there would be no criticism.

I wonder how many of these people would complain that the price was £500 and they would rather wait for the 720 or PS4 at that price. I think most Nintendo fans are just looking forward to the good times ahead and aren't really worried about the specs. Lets see how Mario Universe and the next Zelda look before we complain. Nintendo are never going to compete on specs ever again, best get used to it.

Originally Posted by Refreshment.01

No problems there then Thunder, thanks to Nintendo fantastic hardware choices maybe before the WiiU life cycle comes to a close you'll see idevices that surpasses it's processing abilities. :D

This is funny.

Though not realistic. I can say with certainty that while the idevices won't be anywhere close to the capability of WiiU even in five years, the fact that the hardware is iterated on in a yearly basis means they will soon have much more modern parts, though their floppage probably still won't be close.

Originally Posted by Raonak

Underpowered device is underpowered.

It's basically gonna be a box to play HD nintendo games and thats pretty much it.


makes me really question that Zelda tech demo we saw.

The thing is, thats all it was.

Originally Posted by Refreshment.01

Speculation and asumptions? No cRIPticon, they are based on facts. Look at the ported software running worse than a 7 year old console.

Now the bar has been moved back, instead of more powerful than 360/PS3 the defence strives to prove that at least on equal grounds of performance to ancient hardware.

Save for the most fervent of Nintendo aficionados, there's not really much compeiling reasons to own the console. Let's hope this changes in the future.

There is still value to the discussion. No launch software was made on fully functional SDKs.

Originally Posted by warerare

I wonder how many of these people would complain that the price was £500 and they would rather wait for the 720 or PS4 at that price. I think most Nintendo fans are just looking forward to the good times ahead and aren't really worried about the specs. Lets see how Mario Universe and the next Zelda look before we complain. Nintendo are never going to compete on specs ever again, best get used to it.

Did they announce when the next Zelda is scheduled?

Originally Posted by Projectjustice

its rocking AC3 just as well as the other consoles.

And this is a big achievement with 2012 hardware?

The CPU being underpowered was kind of expected at this point, considering all the rumors and developer comments. There was an anonymous developer comment months ago at CVG about not needing "sophisticated physics" for Mario, and that seems to be the console in a nutshell.

Originally Posted by BeauRoger

How does Assassins creed 3 on wii u compare to the other console versions? It seems pretty cpu heavy. I mean, they could never pull that off on ps3 and 360 during their respective launch windows, so i doubt the wii u is that weak if its capable of matching the "best" of this gen in its launch window. Sure, it might not be the increase people were hoping for, but who honestly imagined wii u being the best console for multiplats next gen? It was always going do its own thing, with 720 and ps4 being the go to guys for most of the mainstream games. A little extra hardware power isnt gonna change that. Might not be the best move for nintendo themselves if they wanted a piece of that pie, but thats not really our problem, we get nintendo titles no matter what.

AC3 runs OK on Wii U but not as well as on PS3. It's not a huge difference, but it is noticeable.

Originally Posted by lherre

And this is a big achievement with 2012 hardware?

on top of the fact that AC3 runs like ass sometimes

Originally Posted by Xellos

The CPU being underpowered was kind of expected at this point, considering all the rumors and developer comments. There was an anonymous developer comment months ago at CVGabout not needing "sophisticated physics" for Mario, and that seems to be the console in a nutshell.



AC3 runs OK on Wii U but not as well as on PS3. It's not a huge difference, but it is noticeable.

Isn't it running bad on the PS3 or am I wrong?

All this outrage over the specs is a bit bit silly. It's understandable that people are a bit dissapointed if their expectations were really high. I just see it as a reality check. There's limits to how much tech they can put in at that price point.

They want a low price, they want the fancy controller and the yen situation is killing them. I could afford to pay more for a more powerful console, but the price is important to reach a large market. They're taking a small loss on every sold so we can't really fault them for the price, even if some companies have taken bigger losses in the past. While it may not be much more powerful than 6-7 year hardware, it's also not much more expensive than said hardware is right now, and comes with more features and a massive screen on the controller.

Personally I'm intrigued by the concept of playing on the gamepad in bed. There are some features I don't care about they could have skipped to spend more money on the specs; I don't really care about the cameras or the NFC, I don't care about wifi, heck I don't even care about bluetooth; give me wired controllers any day. But some people want those features and together they stack up.

No matter how many wikipedia pages I read about cpu tech or memory bandwidth, I'm pretty sure nintendo's hardware team knows a lot more about building hardware than I ever will. They have a history of building nicely balanced, reliable systems, and their hardware is pretty nice to develop for. 3DS is the only one I've used official SDKs for but I've done some homebrew for Wii, GBA & GB back in the day. Maybe reusing flipper in the Wii was somewhat of a mistake. I think they underestimated the importance of programmable shaders; if they had gone for a more modern architecture for similiar cost they could probably have gotten closer to 360/PS3 graphics, though maybe not performed as well the wii did in other areas. But other than that they have a very good track record.

Even if some numbers look weird compared to the competition I expect it to be a nicely balanced system, and about as powerful as it's fair to expect given the price and the features.

Originally Posted by lherre

And this is a big achievement with 2012 hardware?

For 2012 Nintendo hardware?

Apparently.

Originally Posted by lherre

And this is a big achievement with 2012 hardware?

Depends on what the expectations are...which seems to be all over the place right now and is changing depending on the answer provided

Originally Posted by Matt

There is still value to the discussion. No launch software was made on fully functional SDKs.

It will be interesting to see the next announced ports. Maybe Alien? (and of course first party ones).

Off-Topic/

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<a class="bigusername" href="member.php?u=894"><span style="color: #a6a6a6">Drinky Crow</span></a>

I think this could be improved by adding a speific class to the style-sheet for posters like Drinky....

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<a class="bigusername banned" href="member.php?u=894">Drinky Crow</a>

Four stage risk pipeline doesn't scale well, news at 11.

(I expected it to be 1.4-1.6Ghz actually :( )

Originally Posted by Eric_S

Four stage risk pipeline doesn't scale well, news at 11.

(I expected it to be 1.4-1.6Ghz actually :( )

As did I.

Originally Posted by lherre

And this is a big achievement with 2012 hardware?

Who said anything about an achievement?

My point is, its a rush port and its running just like the other consoles. Its a launch title. Last time I check things only get better from launch.

And we're back around to the "and this is an achievement in 201x" comments.

Discussion in these threads:

Originally Posted by beril

All this outrage over the specs is a bit bit silly. It's understandable that people are a bit dissapointed if their expectations were really high. I just see it as a reality check. There's limits to how much tech they can put in at that price point.

They want a low price, they want the fancy controller and the yen situation is killing them. I could afford to pay more for a more powerful console, but the price is important to reach a large market. They're taking a small loss on every sold so we can't really fault them for the price, even if some companies have taken bigger losses in the past. While it may not be much more powerful than 6-7 year hardware, it's also not much more expensive than said hardware is right now, and comes with more features and a massive screen on the controller.

Personally I'm intrigued by the concept of playing on the gamepad in bed. There are some features I don't care about they could have skipped to spend more money on the specs; I don't really care about the cameras or the NFC, I don't care about wifi, heck I don't even care about bluetooth; give me wired controllers any day. But some people want those features and together they stack up.

No matter how many wikipedia pages I read about cpu tech or memory bandwidth, I'm pretty sure nintendo's hardware team knows a lot more about building hardware than I ever will. They have a history of building nicely balanced, reliable systems, and their hardware is pretty nice to develop for. 3DS is the only one I've used official SDKs for but I've done some homebrew for Wii, GBA & GB back in the day. Maybe reusing flipper in the Wii was somewhat of a mistake. I think they underestimated the importance of programmable shaders; if they had gone for a more modern architecture for similiar cost they could probably have gotten closer to 360/PS3 graphics, though maybe not performed as well the wii did in other areas. But other than that they have a very good track record.

Even if some numbers look weird compared to the competition I expect it to be a nicely balanced system, and about as powerful as it's fair to expect given the price and the features.

Its not silly. I lived with shit hardware with the wii and now nintendo is serving a second helping of shit hardware. I've had my fill of shit nintendo.

This console sounds like it was developed by that person who wanted to stuff it in a backpack with some sort of power supply to play off the gamepad on the train. The scrimping for power footprint seems extreme. Double the power draw and nobody would have complained.

And if any of these decisions were for BC then I am glad that the other console manufacturers might be breaking free of that. Its even more maddening to think that the only previous gen console that can be software emulated got some form of hardware BC while the others will not. Nintendo could have put together an emulator with their knowledge of the Wii and GC that would have kicked the shit out of Dolphin performance wise @480p on whatever modern CPU they could have put in this console.

Originally Posted by Projectjustice

Who said anything about an achievement?

My point is, its a rush port and its running just like the other consoles. Its a launch title. Last time I check things only get better from launch.

You work in ubisoft?

Originally Posted by Raonak

Underpowered device is underpowered.

It's basically gonna be a box to play HD nintendo games and thats pretty much it.


makes me really question that Zelda tech demo we saw.

People like to talk about Zelda but any possible thought the Wii U may have already surpassed it?

(500,000 polygon temple, 8,000 polygon Link, 12,000 polygons Gohma thing)

Pikmin Adventure (800,000 polygon level including gamepad, 30,000 polygons in characters and enemies on screen).

Those are estimates by the way.

So, does everyone expect EVERY 3rd party title that gets released on the Durango and Orbis to be a graphical masterpiece with eye-bleeding effects and super-sophisticated physics and AI?

I mean, we've seen how great the PS3 and 360 are in terms of visuals, but the thing is that not every title is indicative of either console's strength. We still see shitty looking titles, quite frequently actually.

To say that not a single, un-gimped port of any content on Durango and Orbis will be possible on the Wii U is kinda stretching it, no?

Originally Posted by Log4Girlz

Its not silly. I lived with shit hardware with the wii and now nintendo is serving a second helping of shit hardware. I've had my fill of shit nintendo.

Wii was their most successful console. It's only logical that they would follow the same strategy again. This shouldn't be a surprise.

Originally Posted by JordanN

(500,000 polygon temple, 8,000 polygon Link, 12,000 polygons Gohma thing)


Pikmin Adventure (800,000 polygon level including gamepad, 30,000 polygons in characters and enemies on screen).

Those are estimates by the way.

Yeah, no shit. That is a huge understatement.

Originally Posted by Log4Girlz

So I'm a fool for wanting a new snes? Lol

No way. I would freaking LOVE a new SNES. However, expecting an end-all be-all console is kind of ridiculous. Consoles will always be different from each other and some will be weaker than the rest on the market leading to different games. See: Genesis, Game Boy, NES, Playstation, PS2, DS, etc. compared to their contemporaries.

Originally Posted by Log4Girlz

Its not silly. I lived with shit hardware with the wii and now nintendo is serving a second helping of shit hardware. I've had my fill of shit nintendo.

Coming to grips with the realities of present day Nintendo is always a tough transition.

Originally Posted by lherre

You work in ubisoft?

Do you?

Originally Posted by JordanN

People like to talk about Zelda but any possible thought the Wii U may have already surpassed it?

(500,000 polygon temple, 8,000 polygon Link, 12,000 polygons Gohma thing)


Pikmin Adventure (800,000 polygon level including gamepad, 30,000 polygons in characters and enemies on screen).

Those are estimates by the way.

Where you get those numbers from mane?

Originally Posted by Projectjustice

Do you?

Maybe :P