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Dark Schala
Eloquent Princess
(12-07-2012, 05:24 AM)
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Originally Posted by randomkid

What's wrong with 8-bit dungeon design? Anyways, Schala had some neat insights on FF4 dungeons in the anniversary thread, you just have to dig through some weirdo nonsense about Batman or something first haha.

I do it because I need to maintain my sanity.

But yeah, the dungeon design in terms of the aesthetics/tilesets in FF4 and some of the maps are relatively decent. Some of them can be frustrating to go through for some due to the handicaps implemented in there (ex: Sealed Cave's Trap Doors which are basically a way for you to level up so you can be prepared for the difficulty spike ahead; Land of Summons and the Sylvan Cave essentially forcing you to meet the required level of 38 or so just so that Rosa has Float and you'll be adequately prepped for the dungeon, Magnet Cave preventing you from using metallic weapons and feeling relieved when you finally could, etc.), but a lot of the time, the branching paths included in some of the dungeons are kind of creative (and sometimes are a little cute because some of them don't lead anywhere special).

I dunno. I thought they were designed rather well most of the time.
Shalashaska161
Member
(12-07-2012, 05:26 AM)
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If it's the DS version I might buy it. Never played it on DS and I heard it was different enough to be worth a look.

BTW off topic but was FF Dimensions any good?
CorvoSol
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(12-07-2012, 05:26 AM)
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HAPPY ANNIVERSARY FFV! LET'S CELEBRATE WITH MORE FFIV!!!!!!!!!!!!
Synless
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(12-07-2012, 05:26 AM)
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FF Dimensions is finally bought!
Noi
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(12-07-2012, 05:32 AM)
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Originally Posted by Dark Schala

I do it because I need to maintain my sanity.

But yeah, the dungeon design in terms of the aesthetics/tilesets in FF4 and some of the maps are relatively decent. Some of them can be frustrating to go through for some due to the handicaps implemented in there (ex: Sealed Cave's Trap Doors which are basically a way for you to level up so you can be prepared for the difficulty spike ahead; Land of Summons and the Sylvan Cave essentially forcing you to meet the required level of 38 or so just so that Rosa has Float and you'll be adequately prepped for the dungeon, Magnet Cave preventing you from using metallic weapons and feeling relieved when you finally could, etc.), but a lot of the time, the branching paths included in some of the dungeons are kind of creative (and sometimes are a little cute because some of them don't lead anywhere special).

I dunno. I thought they were designed rather well most of the time.

IV and V have decent dungeon themes and designs, I felt. As annoying as the Magnet cave was, at least the gimmick behind it was creative and not something often done in the series. The Tower of Babil and it's revisits were neat, you go inside a giant robot to take out it's CPU, then you end up on the Moon. FFV has stuff like the fire ship, Fork Tower, the Pyramid and the Moore Forest fire (which admittedly make up for the rather shitty Exdeath's Castle in World 2, even if it had the best battle background with the fleshy walls).

Meanwhile VI has you go into a cave for every other dungeon. I got tired of that pretty fast.
ZeroAKA
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(12-07-2012, 05:36 AM)
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Release date: December 20, 2012.

http://dlgames.square-enix.com/ff/
graywolf323
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(12-07-2012, 05:37 AM)
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Originally Posted by Shalashaska161

If it's the DS version I might buy it. Never played it on DS and I heard it was different enough to be worth a look.

BTW off topic but was FF Dimensions any good?

I'd prefer it to be the PSP version, that was the best one
mutsu
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(12-07-2012, 05:41 AM)
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How many more ports does Square-Enix have to keep milking before they can get enough funds to release remakes of FF5 and FF6?
Synless
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(12-07-2012, 05:42 AM)
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Originally Posted by mutsu

How many more ports does Square-Enix have to keep milking before they can get enough funds to release remakes of FF5 and FF6?

At least two more remakes of IV.
antitrop
does not much care for
anti-shooter bias
(12-07-2012, 05:43 AM)
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Originally Posted by mutsu

How many more ports does Square-Enix have to keep milking before they can get enough funds to release remakes of FF5 and FF6?

My body wouldn't even know what to do with an FF6 remake.
Hero
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(12-07-2012, 05:46 AM)
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FFVI Remake on 3DS. Believe.

:(
Dunan
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(12-07-2012, 05:47 AM)
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Originally Posted by chickdigger802

Making a font that scales well for retina and not retina requires too much work clearly.

Let's just use the freebies that come with the sdk!

To be fair to them, Helvetica is one of the classiest-looking "default" fonts they could have chosen.

Though they could have had Macintosh diehards squealing with joy had they used bitmap Chicago, which was the Mac's default menu font -- and the text font for FF3 and Chrono Trigger -- back in the day.
Wario64
works for Gamestop (lol)
(12-07-2012, 05:51 AM)



Bladenic
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(12-07-2012, 05:51 AM)
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Originally Posted by Shalashaska161

If it's the DS version I might buy it. Never played it on DS and I heard it was different enough to be worth a look.

BTW off topic but was FF Dimensions any good?

YES! FFD is wonderful and IMO absolutely worth the full price, if its on sale then jump on it! Probably one of my favorite RPGs this year.
Dark Schala
Eloquent Princess
(12-07-2012, 05:52 AM)
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Originally Posted by Noi

IV and V have decent dungeon themes and designs, I felt. As annoying as the Magnet cave was, at least the gimmick behind it was creative and not something often done in the series. The Tower of Babil and it's revisits were neat, you go inside a giant robot to take out it's CPU, then you end up on the Moon. FFV has stuff like the fire ship, Fork Tower, the Pyramid and the Moore Forest fire (which admittedly make up for the rather shitty Exdeath's Castle in World 2, even if it had the best battle background with the fleshy walls).

Meanwhile VI has you go into a cave for every other dungeon. I got tired of that pretty fast.

Yeah, while FFVI had some of its neat dungeons (ex: Phantom Train, Jidoor, Magitek Factory, etc.), they're not exactly very diverse in terms of tilesets/colours used because you're going into caves or mountains often, or some of them may lack extra passages or something that might make exploration extra rewarding for the player. My recent playthrough of FF4 has made me realize that, hey, FF4's dungeons aren't that bad.

But gosh, the area backgrounds in FF6 have the capacity to look very good (ex: waterfall place, Phantom Forest, Narshe where the Esper is, etc.).
impact
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(12-07-2012, 05:53 AM)
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If they port it to 360 you'll be able to play it on every system ever
Aru
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(12-07-2012, 05:53 AM)
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Well, if it's the DS version it's too bad. FFIV CC was better. Fast forward button FTW :D
Wario64
works for Gamestop (lol)
(12-07-2012, 05:59 AM)
http://www.gamer.ne.jp/news/201212070033/

(DS?) screens and info

1800 yen
UberTag
Member
(12-07-2012, 06:03 AM)
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Nice to see this game find its way to Square Enix's new favorite platform.
Cheap low budget ports help finance their next CGI movie project and Toriyama's Lightning fixation.
Hopefully they'll move more of their 1990s catalog over to iOS in short order.

(Incidentally, the After Years is pretty sweet. Highly recommended.)
CorvoSol
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(12-07-2012, 06:03 AM)
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Originally Posted by Dark Schala

Yeah, while FFVI had some of its neat dungeons (ex: Phantom Train, Jidoor, Magitek Factory, etc.), they're not exactly very diverse in terms of tilesets/colours used because you're going into caves or mountains often, or some of them may lack extra passages or something that might make exploration extra rewarding for the player. My recent playthrough of FF4 has made me realize that, hey, FF4's dungeons aren't that bad.

But gosh, the area backgrounds in FF6 have the capacity to look very good (ex: waterfall place, Phantom Forest, Narshe where the Esper is, etc.).

6 also has a dungeon inside the mind of a depressed man, a burning mansion, on a floating continent, in an underwater castle and the belly of a beast. Granted the last two are reused tilesets of Doma and Cave/Mountain, but then, the Giant of Babil and the Tower of Babil both use the Tower of Zott tileset, and the Moon uses the Crystal Room and Lunar Cave tilesets.
cvxfreak
HOLY FUCKING CRAP
(12-07-2012, 06:10 AM)
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DS version? Honestly, I would have preferred the original since that one can be played in quicker bursts than the remake...
Dark Schala
Eloquent Princess
(12-07-2012, 06:14 AM)
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Originally Posted by CorvoSol

6 also has a dungeon inside the mind of a depressed man, a burning mansion, on a floating continent, in an underwater castle and the belly of a beast. Granted the last two are reused tilesets of Doma and Cave/Mountain, but then, the Giant of Babil and the Tower of Babil both use the Tower of Zott tileset, and the Moon uses the Crystal Room and Lunar Cave tilesets.

But are those dungeons something that a player will joyfully and skillfully explore every nook and cranny with the mindset of finding something neat at the end of a branch? It may be interesting within the context of the situation because FF6 was decent at playing up how well a dungeon feels to the player in terms of atmosphere, but does it offer a bulk of content for the player to consume? Off the top of my head, Zozo probably did that successfully.

Good dungeon design isn't merely limited to aesthetics and style, but it also includes what the developers had intended for the player to do within the dungeon while coming with with a way to challenge the player. An easy way to do this is with puzzles (I dunno, Lufia 2 or something), another way is to create an interesting dungeon design so that the player will feel like they want to explore it (FF4's dungeons with "hidden" passages), and another way is through a gimmick (ex: that magnet cave one). As long as these are executed properly, then the overall dungeon design is fine. Good tilesets and colours are a plus.
Noi
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(12-07-2012, 06:14 AM)
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Originally Posted by Dark Schala

Yeah, while FFVI had some of its neat dungeons (ex: Phantom Train, Jidoor, Magitek Factory, etc.), they're not exactly very diverse in terms of tilesets/colours used because you're going into caves or mountains often, or some of them may lack extra passages or something that might make exploration extra rewarding for the player. My recent playthrough of FF4 has made me realize that, hey, FF4's dungeons aren't that bad.

But gosh, the area backgrounds in FF6 have the capacity to look very good (ex: waterfall place, Phantom Forest, Narshe where the Esper is, etc.).

Originally Posted by CorvoSol

6 also has a dungeon inside the mind of a depressed man, a burning mansion, on a floating continent, in an underwater castle and the belly of a beast. Granted the last two are reused tilesets of Doma and Cave/Mountain, but then, the Giant of Babil and the Tower of Babil both use the Tower of Zott tileset, and the Moon uses the Crystal Room and Lunar Cave tilesets.

Yeah, I proably should have been clearer in saying that FF6 does have good dungeons, just they're constantly being interrupted by cave and mountain variants, while 4 and 5's are at least constantly trying to mix it up.

In any case, as much as I like 4, the lack of any form of acknowledgement for the other SNES games is depressing.
Man God
Non-Canon Member
(12-07-2012, 06:18 AM)
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At least its the superior version.
CorvoSol
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(12-07-2012, 06:22 AM)
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Originally Posted by Dark Schala

But are those dungeons something that a player will joyfully and skillfully explore every nook and cranny with the mindset of finding something neat at the end of a branch? It may be interesting within the context of the situation because FF6 was decent at playing up how well a dungeon feels to the player in terms of atmosphere, but does it offer a bulk of content for the player to consume? Off the top of my head, Zozo probably did that successfully.

Good dungeon design isn't merely limited to aesthetics and style, but it also includes what the developers had intended for the player to do within the dungeon while coming with with a way to challenge the player. An easy way to do this is with puzzles (I dunno, Lufia 2 or something), another way is to create an interesting dungeon design so that the player will feel like they want to explore it (FF4's dungeons with "hidden" passages), and another way is through a gimmick (ex: that magnet cave one). As long as these are executed properly, then the overall dungeon design is fine. Good tilesets and colours are a plus.

Good dungeon design is not something I would say 4 has then, because that game has 2 towers, 3 if you count the Giant. And Towers are ALWAYS bad dungeon design. Having to go through Bab-il twice did not ease this at all.
Dark Schala
Eloquent Princess
(12-07-2012, 06:26 AM)
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Originally Posted by CorvoSol

Good dungeon design is not something I would say 4 has then, because that game has 2 towers, 3 if you count the Giant. And Towers are ALWAYS bad dungeon design. Having to go through Bab-il twice did not ease this at all.

And yet you're skipping over all the other dungeons in the game with legitimately decent dungeon design. I feel as though the towers are the outliers sometimes. Zot isn't that bad, but Bab-il can be ridiculous.
Hours Left
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(12-07-2012, 06:36 AM)
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The DS version... :/

(I don't hate it, but it's not really FFIV in my eyes. Totally different experience.)
graywolf323
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(12-07-2012, 06:37 AM)
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Originally Posted by Man God

At least its the superior version.

plenty of people disagree with you
TruePrime
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(12-07-2012, 06:40 AM)
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Glad it's the DS version. Given the extra content and difficulty it's easily the best version of the game.

Maybe if I get bored one day I might actually drop the money. I doubt it and I would much rather have FF V. Still I'm glad they went with this version.
RyougaSaotome
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(12-07-2012, 06:40 AM)
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There are some stinkers in IV's list of dungeons, but I think for the most part they're quite solid.
CorvoSol
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(12-07-2012, 06:41 AM)
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Originally Posted by Dark Schala

And yet you're skipping over all the other dungeons in the game with legitimately decent dungeon design. I feel as though the towers are the outliers sometimes. Zot isn't that bad, but Bab-il can be ridiculous.

Aside from the towers you have nothing but a bunch of Gimmick Caves and Regular Mountains.

"Hey kids this cave has MIST! This cave has WATER! This cave has TRAP DOORS! This cave you can't use METAL! This cave is ORANGE! This cave is PURPLE! This cave is GRAY!"
Dunan
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(12-07-2012, 06:42 AM)
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Originally Posted by CorvoSol

6 also has a dungeon inside the mind of a depressed man, a burning mansion, on a floating continent, in [b]an underwater castle and the belly of a beast.[b/] Granted the last two are reused tilesets of Doma and Cave/Mountain, but then, the Giant of Babil and the Tower of Babil both use the Tower of Zott tileset, and the Moon uses the Crystal Room and Lunar Cave tilesets.

Are you sure you're not thinking of a previous game? FF6 didn't have those. (Or are they in the GBA port's extra content?)

Originally Posted by Dark Schala

And yet you're skipping over all the other dungeons in the game with legitimately decent dungeon design. I feel as though the towers are the outliers sometimes. Zot isn't that bad, but Bab-il can be ridiculous.

I'll give 'em this much: the music pieces for both Zot and Bab-il are excellent.

Props to Narshe: I absolutely loved Narshe when I first played FFIII. The way that they connected an underground network of caves and mining tunnels with the above-ground city that uses those tunnels was brilliant. It was also one of Square's first attempts at designing a town where you could see more than just the buildings that you interacted with; there are maybe two or three dozen. Zozo does it too.

In previous RPGs, the background material might say that a town has a population of 2000, or whatever, but when you visited the town, you would only see seven or eight buildings: the shops plus any houses that had NPCs that you could talk with. It was as if they were hesitant to include houses that were there just to be in the background for fear that players would get frustrated at not being able to enter them.

In FF8 they took another step forward by putting additional houses in the background and making it pretty clear that you can't interact with them:



... but it wasn't until FF12 that they really managed to make this look great. Archades and Rabanastre really do house hundreds of thousands of people, but you never feel overwhelmed by the number of buildings because the dozen or so that you're supposed to interact with stand out really well.

Anyway, yeah, Narshe and Zozo. Well-designed towns!
CorvoSol
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(12-07-2012, 07:01 AM)
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Originally Posted by Dunan

Are you sure you're not thinking of a previous game? FF6 didn't have those. (Or are they in the GBA port's extra content?)

The Underwater Castle is accessed by taking Figaro castle between South Figaro and Kohlingen Desert, whereupon it gets stuck in some unusual stratum. Go to the Castle Dungeon, and through the tunnel you used to enter the castle when entering from South Figaro's cave. This will lead you to an underground cavern, through which you pass to find a castle where Terra finds out more about love between humans and Espers.

The belly of the beast is the Zone Eater's belly where you find Gogo.
Dunan
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(12-07-2012, 07:08 AM)
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Originally Posted by CorvoSol

The Underwater Castle is accessed by taking Figaro castle between South Figaro and Kohlingen Desert, whereupon it gets stuck in some unusual stratum. Go to the Castle Dungeon, and through the tunnel you used to enter the castle when entering from South Figaro's cave. This will lead you to an underground cavern, through which you pass to find a castle where Terra finds out more about love between humans and Espers.

The belly of the beast is the Zone Eater's belly where you find Gogo.

The Ancient Castle isn't underwater; it's underground. And the cave that the Zone Eater takes you to isn't inside his body; he's just the conduit that gets you into the cave, which is made of rock like other caves. You can even see sunlight peeking in in a few parts.

Unless... I've been completely misunderstanding things all these years...
graywolf323
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(12-07-2012, 07:10 AM)
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Originally Posted by TruePrime

Glad it's the DS version. Given the extra content and difficulty it's easily the best version of the game.

it lacks Interlude and After Story plus I'll take high-res 2D over crappy looking 3D any day
cvxfreak
HOLY FUCKING CRAP
(12-07-2012, 07:11 AM)
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According to the Japanese article, the game will have improved audio and more than one difficulty level aimed at beginner players.
CorvoSol
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(12-07-2012, 07:13 AM)
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Originally Posted by Dunan

The Ancient Castle isn't underwater; it's underground. And the cave that the Zone Eater takes you to isn't inside his body; he's just the conduit that gets you into the cave, which is made of rock like other caves. You can even see sunlight peeking in in a few parts.

Unless... I've been completely misunderstanding things all these years...

The Ancient Castle is underwater. I'm pretty sure the cave leading up to it is called the "underwater passage" but even if it isn't, Figaro castle stops under the ocean on its way to Kohlingen. So technically it's likely in a cave underground underwater.

But Gogo's dungeon IS called "The Zoneater's Belly".
Dark Schala
Eloquent Princess
(12-07-2012, 07:18 AM)
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Originally Posted by CorvoSol

Aside from the towers you have nothing but a bunch of Gimmick Caves and Regular Mountains.

"Hey kids this cave has MIST! This cave has WATER! This cave has TRAP DOORS! This cave you can't use METAL! This cave is ORANGE! This cave is PURPLE! This cave is GRAY!"

The first cave is nothing special because it's the introductory/tutorial cave.

The cave that has water was the first dungeon in the game with hidden passageways, and it interestingly gave you a clean break on the world map between portions. There aren't a lot of those hidden passageways, but it made the player anticipate them in the next dungeon.

The cave that had trap doors had those trap doors in order for you to prepare for the upcoming difficulty spike while you were busy exploring every room for treasures (even though hilariously, some of the rooms had nothing in them).

The cave where you couldn't use metal was, well, at least it was kind of creative in that it handicapped players to a point that it creative a sense of freedom when the narrative finally allowed you to use metal against Astos or whatever.

The dungeon mechanics and design decisions are what I ended up taking away in the end. Not necessarily the breadth of locations. ‘Sides, I’ve complained about the dungeon atmosphere in the game before (ex: using the same battle background across a few dungeons, the tilesets being palette–swapped, the same dungeon music over and over, etc.).
Zee-Row
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(12-07-2012, 07:28 AM)
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Originally Posted by Dark Schala

Oh yeah. So thrilled. Following Cecil as a character is so enthralling.



But I shouldn't worry because...




Making fun of the story keeps me going. But with that said, this is my longest playthrough of it. After I'm done I don't want to play it again for the next decade.

But are Dwarfs as tough as Moms?
Synless
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(12-07-2012, 07:35 AM)
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Awww yeah! DS version!
Wario64
works for Gamestop (lol)
(12-07-2012, 07:37 AM)
You forgot to edit the release date in the thread title too, lol
Bladenic
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(12-07-2012, 07:56 AM)
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Ew DS version. One playthrough was more than I will ever need of that version.
iavi
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(12-07-2012, 07:56 AM)
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Android getting the release date shaft, per usual.
jooey
The Motorcycle That Wouldn't Slow Down
(12-07-2012, 07:57 AM)
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Originally Posted by graywolf323

it lacks Interlude and After Story plus I'll take high-res 2D over crappy looking 3D any day

I will take no extra stories over crappy extra stories
RagingAvatar
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(12-07-2012, 08:27 AM)
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Have they not considered that they might have re-released this game too much?

Oh wait it's Square Enix..

I have FFIV-CC, that'll do.
The Praiseworthy
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(12-07-2012, 08:33 AM)
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It was just a matter of time... and so glad it happened.

But I really wished it to be the PSP version :(

Anyway, I'm getting this.
wulff83
Junior Member
(12-07-2012, 08:36 AM)
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Originally Posted by The Praiseworthy

It was just a matter of time... and so glad it happened.

But I really wished it to be the PSP version :(

Anyway, I'm getting this.

Did the PSP version have anything new? Was it higher quality sprites and stuff? Or was it just a retranslation and moderate update for the screen size?
Tevious
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(12-07-2012, 08:43 AM)
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It'd be nice if they could have upgraded the models a bit. Even so, I'd pick this up this in a heartbeat for my Vita.

Yes, I know about the current PSP one. I liked how challenging this one was though.
Last edited by Tevious; 12-07-2012 at 09:09 AM.
Aru
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(12-07-2012, 12:05 PM)
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Originally Posted by wulff83

Did the PSP version have anything new? Was it higher quality sprites and stuff? Or was it just a retranslation and moderate update for the screen size?

- Completely redrawn graphics
- GBA translation (not sure about this)
- No FFIV GBA content (also not sure about this)
- Interlude episode and "full sequel" included.
tiggerkiddo
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(12-07-2012, 12:30 PM)
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Final Fantasy 7 only wished it got this much love.

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