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Ezalc
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(01-09-2013, 01:49 PM)
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Like a match made in hell.
jcm
Member
(01-09-2013, 01:51 PM)
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I'm reserving judgement on dmc, but I liked both Heavenly Sword and Enslaved, so this seems sensible to me.
Valnen
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(01-09-2013, 01:51 PM)
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Originally Posted by Fantasmo

Capcom needs to evolve like everyone else. Surely if they could reliably and profitably continue to make the old DMC games they would. They milked the old RE games to death which is why the reboots and changes happened there. Same with CD and Tomb Raider. You guys get up in arms about this stuff but if it was profitable they'd make what you wanted rather than make tons of changes.

In case none of you noticed, Capcom absolutely loves to milk games for all they're worth. Blood from stone type stuff.

I think we can all agree Bayonetta and Vanquish are great at what they do but they didn't set the world on fire, set record sales, or change the landscape of games. And DMC was four games deep. You can't keep making things the same way forever. You have to evolve to the market or you die.

So your solution for increased sales is to make the games worse?

And DMC4 was profitable. I can only hope DmC fails so they see that reboots are not what people want. Don't kill off classic characters like Dante. Because the character in DmC is NOT Dante.
Fantasmo
Member
(01-09-2013, 01:51 PM)
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Originally Posted by EVOL 100%

No shit leave DMC alone



If what I saw of DmC is evolution I'd rather the series stay stagnant

You aren't their accountants, Capcom needs to stay afloat for themselves and their employees. Would you say that is a fair assessment?
Chamber
love on your sleeve
(01-09-2013, 01:53 PM)
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EVOL 100%
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(01-09-2013, 01:53 PM)
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Originally Posted by Fantasmo

You aren't their accountants, Capcom needs to stay afloat for themselves and their employees. Would you say that is a fair assessment?

But they don't even have much hope in DmC. They projected the sales to be lower than DMC4.
MuddyDonut
Member
(01-09-2013, 01:53 PM)
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Whelp. I'll always have the old DMCs and the Platinum games. ;_;7 goodnight sweet prince
Fantasmo
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(01-09-2013, 01:54 PM)
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Originally Posted by Valnen

So your solution for increased sales is to make the games worse?

And DMC4 was profitable.

Worse for who? You? I read about the changes and as a 33 year old with slightly slower reflexes they actually sound somewhat appealing. And the environments and changes look somewhat fresh.

Let me reassure you if they thought they could get away with DMC 5 they would, I have no doubt in my mind. None!
call_kotaku
Member
(01-09-2013, 01:54 PM)
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Originally Posted by Fantasmo

Capcom needs to evolve like everyone else. Surely if they could reliably and profitably continue to make the old DMC games they would. They milked the old RE games to death which is why the reboots and changes happened there. Same with CD and Tomb Raider. You guys get up in arms about this stuff but if it was profitable they'd make what you wanted rather than make tons of changes.

In case none of you noticed, Capcom absolutely loves to milk games for all they're worth. Blood from stone type stuff.

I think we can all agree Bayonetta and Vanquish are great at what they do but they didn't set the world on fire, set record sales, or change the landscape of games. And DMC was four games deep. You can't keep making things the same way forever. You have to evolve to the market or you die.

DMC stagnation is a bit of revisionist history, though. It didn't have declining sales for 5 straight games or something like TR had, and the problem with that reboot is that they made Uncharted and slapped the TR brand on top of it.

I don't think DMC fans are diehard conservatives regardless, the series went through some dramatic turns and Dante's characterization is wildly different in each iteration. Having a change is fine, just not like this.
Liamario
Member
(01-09-2013, 01:55 PM)
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Originally Posted by Ezalc

Like a match made in hell.

Sad but true. Capcom's output this gen has been poor. Not everything, but generally speaking. This on goes to cement this notion.
CosmicGroinPull
Member
(01-09-2013, 01:55 PM)
RIP Devil May Cry.
Tiduz
Eurogaime
(01-09-2013, 01:56 PM)
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i hope DMC doesnt bomb, cause then it will follow ONIMUSHA: ie NOTHING HEARD OF IT EVER AGAIN ONLY A STUPID BROWSER SHIT GAME.
Kusagari
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(01-09-2013, 01:56 PM)
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Originally Posted by Fantasmo

Worse for who? You? I read about the changes and as a 33 year old with slightly slower reflexes they actually sound somewhat appealing. And the environments and changes look somewhat fresh.

Let me reassure you if they thought they could get away with DMC 5 they would, I have no doubt in my mind. None!

DMC4 sold more than their sales expectations for DmC are.
Dave1988
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(01-09-2013, 01:58 PM)
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Okay...


Cerebral Assassin
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(01-09-2013, 01:58 PM)
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Originally Posted by dogmanstaruk

I know that. I'm talking about the full game.

I just can't be arsed with the faux-rage, dramatic swooning and grinding teeth at the new dmc. Writing off a game and developer prior to release is fucking childish, and something I would expect from a 12 year old. Not a rational adult who cares about, and enjoys this hobby.

If the game comes out and it is shit. Then fair game.

It is perfectly natural to write off a game from a developer who has made three mediocre games.
revolverjgw
Banned
(01-09-2013, 01:58 PM)
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Give Onimusha or Dino Crisis to them. I'd be cool with that, stuff where presentation and aesthetics are more important than mechanics.
Viewtify
Banned
(01-09-2013, 01:58 PM)
Please don't let them touch Mega Man
Relaxed Muscle
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(01-09-2013, 01:59 PM)
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Originally Posted by revolverjgw

Give Onimusha or Dino Crisis to them. I'd be cool with that, stuff where presentation and aesthetics are more important than mechanics.

Not sure if serious.....
Muchi Muchi Pink
Member
(01-09-2013, 02:00 PM)
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Originally Posted by revolverjgw

Give Onimusha or Dino Crisis to them. I'd be cool with that, stuff where presentation and aesthetics are more important than mechanics.

Dinos gonna wear some Fedora.
revolverjgw
Banned
(01-09-2013, 02:01 PM)
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Originally Posted by Relaxed Muscle

Not sure if serious.....

There's nothing remarkable or even memorable about how those games played, I don't give a fuck who works on them as long as they get the atmosphere down and they look and sound cool. Nobody else is going to, so I'd be OK with NT bringing them back
Last edited by revolverjgw; 01-09-2013 at 02:03 PM.
Fantasmo
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(01-09-2013, 02:03 PM)
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Originally Posted by call_kotaku

DMC stagnation is a bit of revisionist history, though. It didn't have declining sales for 5 straight games or something like TR had, and the problem with that reboot is that they made Uncharted and slapped the TR brand on top of it.

I don't think DMC fans are diehard conservatives regardless, the series went through some dramatic turns and Dante's characterization is wildly different in each iteration. Having a change is fine, just not like this.

You haven't even played TR to make that assessment. Assuming its true, they want some of the Uncharted action. Cuz let's face it. TR was no longer cutting it saleswise, despite the quality of CD's releases. And Uncharted undoubtedly stole TR's crown by one upping them in every department. For most people games are entertainment and I'm guessing that's where the money is. I personally hope they keep some of the platforming but that doesn't make the money that shooting stuff and charming characters do like Nathan, Sully, Elaine, and Chloe.

Dollars to dunkin donuts, I'd bet Capcom looked at the numbers and asked themselves, what would TODAY's young people want to see Dante as? How can we avoid killing the brand like we did with our other reboots? We like Dante and we like making Dante, and our fans like Dante, but what would bring Dante back to our top sales lists?
EVOL 100%
Member
(01-09-2013, 02:03 PM)
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Originally Posted by revolverjgw

Give Onimusha or Dino Crisis to them. I'd be cool with that, stuff where presentation and aesthetics are more important than mechanics.

Best case scenario(for me)

DmC bombs but Ninja Theory still gets work and financial security and is backed by Capcom.

DMC5 is made or DmC2 is internally developed.

Everybody wins.
monome
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(01-09-2013, 02:04 PM)
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Strider
Relaxed Muscle
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(01-09-2013, 02:04 PM)
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Originally Posted by revolverjgw

There's nothing remarkable or even memorable about how those games played, I don't give a fuck who works on them as long as they get the atmosphere down and they look and sound cool.

I might be able to agree with Onimusha, but Dino Crisis was a very well designed survival horror game and Dino Crisis 2 was incredible fun arcade shooter game with a nice combo system and varied gameplay....and Dino Crisis 3 never existed...

So for me they were way more than atmosphere, they were really good games and given that NT is mostly clueless about that....well...
Valnen
Member
(01-09-2013, 02:05 PM)
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Originally Posted by revolverjgw

There's nothing remarkable or even memorable about how those games played, I don't give a fuck who works on them as long as they get the atmosphere down and they look and sound cool. Nobody else is going to, so I'd be OK with NT bringing them back

Are you kidding me? Most of the fun of Onimusha was mastering the combat system. Learning how to perfectly time counters made combat so satisfying. Counters in that game were awesome.
dionysus
Yaldog
(01-09-2013, 02:05 PM)
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Dumb question. Why is it DmC instead of DMC? Does it not stand for Devil May Cry anymore for the Ninja Theory game?
Acosta
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(01-09-2013, 02:05 PM)
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Can't wait for the reboot of Megaman!
Can Crusher
Member
(01-09-2013, 02:05 PM)
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I like Ninja Theory, they have good intentions. They just a need a breakout hit!
Glass Rebel
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(01-09-2013, 02:07 PM)
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Originally Posted by Fantasmo

Worse for who? You? I read about the changes and as a 33 year old with slightly slower reflexes they actually sound somewhat appealing. And the environments and changes look somewhat fresh.

Let me reassure you if they thought they could get away with DMC 5 they would, I have no doubt in my mind. None!

Well, there are several games that would fit your tastes then. There was no need for DmC to go the same way.
sublimit
Member
(01-09-2013, 02:07 PM)
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Good bye Onimusha. ;_;
Muchi Muchi Pink
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(01-09-2013, 02:07 PM)
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Originally Posted by dionysus

Dumb question. Why is it DmC instead of DMC? Does it not stand for Devil May Cry anymore for the Ninja Theory game?

DMC is not cool anymore.
WickedLaharl
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(01-09-2013, 02:10 PM)
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Fantasmo
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(01-09-2013, 02:11 PM)
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Originally Posted by Glass Rebel

Well, there are several games that would fit your tastes then. There was no need for DmC to go the same way.

I'm not your enemy on this I assure you. I wouldn't buy DMC5 as I won't buy DMC reboot. I'm saying this decision was made after looking at the DMC sales numbers, and previous IP sales numbers history. Rather than potentially bury DMC with a potentially low sales release at the end of a generation, they decided to ask themselves key questions to figure out how to revitalize it and actually keep Dante around without having to resort to burying him for ten years. You and I both know Kamiya left Capcom. So does Capcom.
Last edited by Fantasmo; 01-09-2013 at 02:13 PM.
Dark Octave
Banned
(01-09-2013, 02:12 PM)
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Originally Posted by Nirolak

Independent developers generally start signing new contracts six months before their current game launches, so this has almost assuredly already been decided to at least do another project.

I wonder what it'll be.

Emo hair Gun Smoke.
revolverjgw
Banned
(01-09-2013, 02:12 PM)
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Originally Posted by Valnen

Are you kidding me? Most of the fun of Onimusha was mastering the combat system. Learning how to perfectly time counters made combat so satisfying. Counters in that game were awesome.

I don't even remember. I'm sure I didn't master it (especially if it was parrying, I can never do that), but I know it was unsophisticated enough that they should be able to pull that off better than DmC. I know I didn't play through Onimusha games for the deep combat mechanics, though I'm not saying they didn't play well.
Karsticles
Banned
(01-09-2013, 02:12 PM)
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Originally Posted by Fantasmo

I'm not your enemy on this I assure you. I wouldn't buy DMC5 as I won't buy DMC reboot. I'm saying this decision was made after looking at the DMC sales numbers, and previous IP sales numbers history. Rather than potentially bury DMC with a potentially low sales release at the end of a generation, they decided to ask themselves key questions to figure out how to revitalize it and actually keep Dante around without having to resort to burying him for ten years.

You are right. Unfortunately, as always, Capcom came up with all the wrong answers to those key questions.
jett
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(01-09-2013, 02:14 PM)
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Originally Posted by 8bit

I wouldn't trust the demo personally, the Enslaved demo was not indicative of the rest of the game.

The Enslaved demo was terrible.

The DmC demo is actually pretty meaty with four weapons available, a bunch of moves unlocked, and multiple difficulty levels.
Sn4ke_911
If I ever post something in Japanese which I don't understand, please BAN me.
(01-09-2013, 02:15 PM)
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Originally Posted by WickedLaharl

Perfect.
StifflersMum
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(01-09-2013, 02:17 PM)
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Honestly, I will never understand the hate that Ninja Theory gets here.

And from the impressions I hear, the new DMC seems to be quite good.


Some people just want to shit on something they don't even know about, thinking they seem cool following the hive mind.
call_kotaku
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(01-09-2013, 02:18 PM)
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Originally Posted by Fantasmo

You haven't even played TR to make that assessment. Assuming its true, they want some of the Uncharted action. Cuz let's face it. TR was no longer cutting it saleswise, despite the quality of CD's releases. And Uncharted undoubtedly stole TR's crown by one upping them in every department. For most people games are entertainment and I'm guessing that's where the money is. I personally hope they keep some of the platforming but that doesn't make the money that shooting stuff and charming characters do like Nathan, Sully, Elaine, and Chloe.

Dollars to dunkin donuts, I'd bet Capcom looked at the numbers and asked themselves, what would TODAY's young people want to see Dante as? How can we avoid killing the brand like we did with our other reboots? We like Dante and we like making Dante, and our fans like Dante, but what would bring Dante back to our top sales lists?

Either that's their whole creative direction or they've been awfully representing themselves through PR. The issue isn't whether people like Uncharted or not (a lot of people don't), it's the idea of creating games through some focus group checklist and assuming that successful games are just a collection of marketable line items. That's been Capcom's problem with Resident Evil as well, and the success of RE4 kinda doomed the rest of the series because what was good about that game was Kamiya's direction, not just whatever mechanical or thematic changes the game made towards the formula. Capcom's been chasing it ever since and it hasn't worked because people want good games, not some arbitrary collection of features and characters.

Dante was a good protagonist for an action game about style, and really he was built around the needs of the game and not vice versa. New Dante is just a generic dude that inherited some of old Dante's game mechanics and it's a bit of a muddled mess.

This "don't blame Capcom for wanting to make money" stuff is the worst excuse, because they haven't been making more money
FlutterPuffs
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(01-09-2013, 02:18 PM)
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Not a big fan of the DmC look, but I'm buying the new game and forcing myself (if I have to) to love the shit out of the new game due to the amount of salt in this thread.

This game might suck, but can everyone please reserve their full judgment after playing the game when it's released? Besides, it has been shown that the huge aesthetic change was Capcom's decision, and we might have even gotten something like it if they have went with a different developer.
Sir_Crocodile
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(01-09-2013, 02:18 PM)
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Press to buy
Sojgat
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(01-09-2013, 02:19 PM)
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Demo was ok, and I liked Enslaved a lot, so I'll be picking this up.

As a big fan of the original Splinter Cell games, I can see where all the haters are coming from. It's still going to be entertaining to see how many of them are playing the game day 1 though.
Valnen
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(01-09-2013, 02:19 PM)
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Originally Posted by Fantasmo

I'm not your enemy on this I assure you. I wouldn't buy DMC5 as I won't buy DMC reboot. I'm saying this decision was made after looking at the DMC sales numbers, and previous IP sales numbers history. Rather than potentially bury DMC with a potentially low sales release at the end of a generation, they decided to ask themselves key questions to figure out how to revitalize it and actually keep Dante around without having to resort to burying him for ten years. You and I both know Kamiya left Capcom. So does Capcom.

It wasn't numbers they were looking at because DMC4 was the best selling DMC. It's just Capcom being stupid. Period.
jimi_dini
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(01-09-2013, 02:20 PM)
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Guys like Ninja Theory and Dontnod who in the case of Ninja Theory have a proven track record of delivering quality products more or less on time, and at an expected level of quality

Wat?

no. That's not Ninja Theory you are talking about.
call_kotaku
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(01-09-2013, 02:21 PM)
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Originally Posted by Valnen

It wasn't numbers they were looking at because DMC4 was the best selling DMC. It's just Capcom being stupid. Period.

There does seem to be a lot of misinformation around this issue. I don't want to call it a Capcom conspiracy, maybe people saw Capcom reboot DMC and thought "well it must've not been doing well".
Glass Rebel
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(01-09-2013, 02:22 PM)
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Originally Posted by StifflersMum

Honestly, I will never understand the hate that Ninja Theory gets here.

And from the impressions I hear, the new DMC seems to be quite good.


Some people just want to shit on something they don't even know about, thinking they seem cool following the hive mind.

yeeaahhhh....
Fantasmo
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(01-09-2013, 02:23 PM)
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Originally Posted by Kusagari

DMC4 sold more than their sales expectations for DmC are.

We're late in the generation though and I'm sure SOMETHING led them to the conclusion that DMC5 wouldn't cut it. Right? Something led them to believe they couldn't do it. And if the sales aren't there, you have to look forward as well as back. I think Dante's characterization has a lot to do with making him "hot with a bit of sexy". He looks like a Twilight guy. I'm not saying they're trying to make Twilight, but white haired Dante isn't todays hot look. And Ninja Theory seems like a devloper that's not 100 on the mark with gaming, but pretty solid and they're really good with characters. And I'm guessing Capcom saw that and their passion for DMC in general and said "snatch em up!"

If anything I applaud Capcom for being forward thinking.
Last edited by Fantasmo; 01-09-2013 at 02:25 PM.
Valnen
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(01-09-2013, 02:24 PM)
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Originally Posted by Fantasmo

If the sales aren't there, you have to look forward as well as back. I think Dante's characterization has a lot to do with making him "hot with a bit of sexy". He looks like a Twilight guy. I'm not saying they're trying to make Twilight, but white haired Dante isn't todays hot look. And Ninja Theory seems like a devloper that's not 100 on the mark with gaming, but pretty solid and they're really good with characters. And I'm guessing Capcom saw that and their passion for DMC in general and said "snatch em up!"

If anything I applaud Capcom for being forward thinking.

You applaud Capcom for taking classic characters and killing their design? Okay.
Xater
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(01-09-2013, 02:24 PM)
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Oh well. No more Devil Mac Cry for me then.

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