[alcide]

Any word on any form of actual hardware supported Anti-Aliasing? I want whatever the guys over in the AA thread believe is the best to be hardware forced on every game.

[Monas]

The only thing that justifies such a large RAM for xb3, is to reduce the need for HDD (flash mem like Wii U?) or the reason for the 3GB of RAM reserved for the OS would be the drivers for all these gimmicks:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...=JHL5tJ9ja_w#!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=re1EatGRV0w

For PS4 i'm expecting a complete desktop OS of sorts, with apps for email, browsing, PDF, Twitter, FB and all that

[Globox_82]

the things that bothers me the most about Durango rumor is not 3GB of ram for OS, but two cores reserved for it as well.

[B.O.O.M]

In this case it's not a streaming game. It's a game executing locally. But you can start it very quickly after downloading. So buy big multi-gigabyte game -> start playing in a few minutes. Like they mention you could start playing instantly on a streamed session, then migrate to the locally executing copy when it is ready a few minutes later. It's sort of something they were doing so that 'gaikai' could be useful in rural areas and areas with poor connections, not just for instant game streaming on good connections. And would obviously be of interest to people who want to download and play local copies of games rather than streaming, if it can in fact let you start playing much sooner.

I see. Thanks for the explanation. I have been thinking what possible ways Sony can successfully integrate Gaikai into the Orbis. Lag is the biggest issue they have with streaming afaik.

[daveo42]

the things that bothers me the most about Durango rumor is not 3GB of ram for OS, but two cores reserved for it as well.

Kinect.

[JonathanPower]

Over time the os usage of ram shrinks , doesn't it? Ps3's XMB used a lot of ram initially, but the footprint got smaller with new firmware updates. Being the software experts that MS are, isn't it possible for them to free up ram as the gen progresses, thus making more than 5 available to developers? Same with Sony. Me thinks pretty much even systems.

The problem is that the process of reducing OS memory usage is due to a lack of OS optimization, and MS never reduced the Xbox360 memory usage since its OS was already well optimized. This is why I find it hard to beleave that all of a sudden MS forgot how to properly program an OS, thus having for the Xbox720 an overbloated OS that will have to be fixed later with firmware updates.

[Ardenyal]

Any word on any form of actual hardware supported Anti-Aliasing? I want whatever the guys over in the AA thread believe is the best to be hardware forced on every game.

Not going to happen. No one is actually playing at those AA levels @1080p60fps

[Bombadil]

No, it's about bus bandwidth and GPU capacity, complicated with edram and special sauce On a simple level, 68Gb/s should be able to transfer 1GB every 1/60 second. But that won't mean 1Gb unique data, and it won't reach those theoretical limits anyway, you have latency etc. and data will need to be written back to memory many times I'm mainly curious if you take an 'industry average' streaming engine and give it 4 or 8GB (or 3.5 and 5), how much would be allocated to different parts? Assuming mandatory install on HDD for better transfer speeds. I'd expect the HDD speed to be the real limiting factor. No point actually drawing 1Gb unique data per frame if you can only transfer in 200MB/s from HDD

Those kinds of details are often lost or understated. I guess we can't make any definitive guess about which console is more capable until we have every single fact. But we never really got that from the PS3/360, either. To this day, people are debating about it. It must be an even bigger nightmare for the developers.

[Mindlog]

the things that bothers me the most about Durango rumor is not 3GB of ram for OS, but two cores reserved for it as well.

My concern is in the other direction. It's easier to set aside too much early than it is to try and do something new later. Trying to reach feature parity without the resources to do so can be trouble.

[Shayan]

FreeBSD like in the PS3 for the game side and a "simplier" Linux for the Application side of the PS4. That's what I understand.

Hey Jeff,

if the rumours turn out to be rue, then what advantage /disadvantage would 4g GDDR5 have over 8 g DDR3?

I am in support of more RAM even if its slower, since your RAM performance is actually dependant on how much cache you have and how fast you can do cache mapping?

[AgentP]

The cell can access only XDR, but the GPU can access both pools. This is my understanding, though I am not a games developer by any means, so someone may correct me on that.

Edit, simpler diagram.

[open_mouth_]

I'm not sure this is what you're getting at, probably not, but Gaikai was showing a thing where you could start playing a game before it finished downloading. It would download the bits you need to get started then download the rest in the background while you play, so you can start playing faster. http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...&v=SRyx8dFooV0

how about something like Flash or Silverlight but on a bigger scale? Like when you download a flash game, you're not downloading all the game's data are you? You already have some files on your computer which that data is making use of. Know what I mean?

[Glorified G]

the things that bothers me the most about Durango rumor is not 3GB of ram for OS, but two cores reserved for it as well.

Still holding out hope that it's bullshit.

[-Amon-]

For PS4 i'm expecting a complete desktop OS of sorts, with apps for email, browsing, PDF, Twitter, FB and all that

PS4 is a game console, not a desktop pc, or a tablet of some sort. If they are really keeping the OS memory footprint so low, that can only mean that they are really focusing on what is the primary purpose of a console, and i like that approach.

[Shayan]

true.

It can access both XDR and GDDR 3 but 32mb i guess is reserved just for OS

[Barkley's Justice]

Large RAM for Xbox is for SmartGlass video transcoding to mobile devices, OS screenshot / social sharing / paused app switching, background Kinect processes such as Siri-like voice control, etc

[BruceLeeRoy]

Scans thread.


Hmmm where is Proelite, Andy, and Karak? I don't need you uniformed suckas!

[Globox_82]

Still holding out hope that it's bullshit.

me too. I just don't see MS making a mistake like that and giving sony advantage over HC gamers that look into these numbers.

[eso76]

Plex or xbmc are nice for stored content. But I'd like something fully integrating my live cable TV, my stored media and online streaming on demand, with common search across everything. GoogleTV had the right idea but too much focus on the Internet and not enough on media. A games console with HDMI pass through that is always on, that can overlay game notifications on my live TV, can search and browse all my media whether live, offline or online, and switch between them seamlessly? Yes please.

that's nice and all, but if it comes at the expense of gaming...just give me an xbox media center add on or something that doesn't take resources away from my graphiz !

Anyway, even with all that i still think 3GB is madness.
Is the console supposed to be able to record tv shows AND capture my games AND capture my face while i play the game through kinect at the same time ?...

...actually, WAIT.

Maybe with the xbox720 everyone will have his own channel and do a live streaming of him playing games, like that guy playing "i wanna be the floe" ?
That would be awesome and i think very popular in the social network era.

[Death Dealer]

me too. I just don't see MS making a mistake like that and giving sony advantage over HC gamers that look into these numbers.

Is 6 vs 7 available CPUs really going to matter on games ?

I think the GPU specs and differing memory configurations will make a bigger difference.

[schennmu]

I'm calling it now, the Durango hardware will be a bit messy. The recent MS is not comparable to the MS that designed the X360. This thing will be a Windows8/Kinect Jack of all trades without focus.

[Monas]

PS4 is a game console, not a desktop pc, or a tablet of some sort. If they are really keeping the OS memory footprint so low, that can only mean that they are really focusing on what is the primary purpose of a console, and i like that approach.

I agree but still, 512Mb OS for a console?

[AgentWhiskers]

I'm calling it now, the Durango hardware will be a bit messy. The recent MS is not comparable to the MS that designed the X360. This thing will be a Windows8/Kinect Jack of all trades without focus.

I fear this is where we're headed. And they'll probably still hold the US market.

[Globox_82]

Is 6 vs 7 available CPUs really going to matter on games ? I think the GPU specs and differing memory configurations will make a bigger difference.

well article says 8 cores in ps4 so not sure where you got 7?
anyways 2 cores + slower ram (plus if it really 5GB ram) and weaker gpu. Doesn't make much sense. I bet ms has a monster. Just a feeling

[JonathanPower]

PS4 is a game console, not a desktop pc, or a tablet of some sort. If they are really keeping the OS memory footprint so low, that can only mean that they are really focusing on what is the primary purpose of a console, and i like that approach.

I totally agree. If I'd have to choice between 1080P and OS features, I'd take 1080p gaming any day. I think that gaming is still the most important feature for a console.

Is 6 vs 7 available CPUs really going to matter on games ? I think the GPU specs and differing memory configurations will make a bigger difference.

I think PS4 will have all 8 cores available for games, with just a fraction of the power of 1 core used for the OS. Now, if Durango will only have 6 cores available for games this would indeed make a huge difference.

[Giggzy]

Hey folks. Just got approved and this is my first post!

I hate to be that "guy" that brings more "insider information" to the table(especially since it's my first post and nobody knows if I'm trustworthy), but I will be for right now. I have a friend who is very, very close with Sony. I won't say what he does or who he is, but I can relay what he has told me.

I haven't kept up on this page completely so hopefully I'm bringing some new information. I showed him the rumored leaks from yesterday and he said the only thing they really got right was the RAM. According to him(I don't know tech talk very well so you might understand this better than I) the APU has 4 steamroller cores in it, bandwidth to the GDDR5 is high. Cell runs the show(OS, security, IO, etc.) and also acts as a satellite/accelerator processor for the steamroller cores. APU has access to the XDR in a similar way that RSX does. There is an SCC(Super Companion Chip) inside as well.

The ram is only 3.5gb and is in 3 pools. 2GB GDDR5 for the APU(which is not an A10), 1GB DDR3 for the SCC, and 512mb XDR(for Cell). He said the APU has 256GB/s to the GDDR5, devkits though. There is no cell in the devkit yet, maybe 1st party ones, cell integration needs final silicon.

It will be backwards compatible with PS3 AND PS2. As far as the new controller rumor, he doesn't know much as far as design goes but did say that there is no screen on the controller, however, you can use another device to have that. I assume he's hinting at the vita?

Anyways, that's the info I received. No need to believe it and I'm not saying it is 100% accurate, just going by what I've been told.

[Bombadil]

Large RAM for Xbox is for SmartGlass video transcoding to mobile devices, OS screenshot / social sharing / paused app switching, background Kinect processes such as Siri-like voice control, etc

Basically a bunch of bullshit that most people interested in a dedicated gaming console wouldn't care about.

All else being equal, it would be:

PS4 = 8 cores for gaming, 3.5 gigs of GDDR5 for gaming.
Xbox 3 = 6 cores for gaming, 5 gigs of DDR3 for gaming.

Also, wouldn't both companies disable some cores from the CPU to increase production yields?

[Ponn01]

I'm calling it now, the Durango hardware will be a bit messy. The recent MS is not comparable to the MS that designed the X360. This thing will be a Windows8/Kinect Jack of all trades without focus.

I agree, except for the without focus part. I think it will be focused, and these dedicated ram and cpu cores to OS rumors paint a pretty obvious picture of their continued focus on Kinect, apps, casual, media and ads ads ads. Kinect 2.0 is coming with EVERY 720, I will bet all kinds of money on it and thats part of where the ram and cpu is going with whatever new shit they are doing with it. I have a couple friends that are going to be all kinds of excited for it but it turns me right off. If I do jump into next gen my only hope is PS4 doesn't go that route and keeps their OS clean, tight and useful like XMB or even Vita bubbles (which may be a possibility since we haven't seen the PS4 controller yet).

[Saberus]

Hey folks. Just got approved and this is my first post! I hate to be that "guy" that brings more "insider information" to the table(especially since it's my first post and nobody knows if I'm trustworthy), but I will be for right now. I have a friend who is very, very close with Sony. I won't say what he does or who he is, but I can relay what he has told me. I haven't kept up on this page completely so hopefully I'm bringing some new information. I showed him the rumored leaks from yesterday and he said the only thing they really got right was the RAM. According to him(I don't know tech talk very well so you might understand this better than I) the APU has 4 steamroller cores in it, bandwidth to the GDDR5 is high. Cell runs the show(OS, security, IO, etc.) and also acts as a satellite/accelerator processor for the steamroller cores. APU has access to the XDR in a similar way that RSX does. There is an SCC(Super Companion Chip) inside as well. The ram is only 3.5gb and is in 3 pools. 2GB GDDR5 for the APU(which is not an A10), 1GB DDR3 for the SCC, and 512mb XDR(for Cell). He said the APU has 256GB/s to the GDDR5, devkits though. There is no cell in the devkit yet, maybe 1st party ones, cell integration needs final silicon. It will be backwards compatible with PS3 AND PS2. As far as the new controller rumor, he doesn't know much as far as design goes but did say that there is no screen on the controller, however, you can use another device to have that. I assume he's hinting at the vita? Anyways, that's the info I received. No need to believe it and I'm not saying it is 100% accurate, just going by what I've been told.

Umm.. this is totally opposite of just about everything else we know.

[Derrick01]

Hey folks. Just got approved and this is my first post! I hate to be that "guy" that brings more "insider information" to the table(especially since it's my first post and nobody knows if I'm trustworthy), but I will be for right now. I have a friend who is very, very close with Sony. I won't say what he does or who he is, but I can relay what he has told me. I haven't kept up on this page completely so hopefully I'm bringing some new information. I showed him the rumored leaks from yesterday and he said the only thing they really got right was the RAM. According to him(I don't know tech talk very well so you might understand this better than I) the APU has 4 steamroller cores in it, bandwidth to the GDDR5 is high. Cell runs the show(OS, security, IO, etc.) and also acts as a satellite/accelerator processor for the steamroller cores. APU has access to the XDR in a similar way that RSX does. There is an SCC(Super Companion Chip) inside as well. The ram is only 3.5gb and is in 3 pools. 2GB GDDR5 for the APU(which is not an A10), 1GB DDR3 for the SCC, and 512mb XDR(for Cell). He said the APU has 256GB/s to the GDDR5, devkits though. There is no cell in the devkit yet, maybe 1st party ones, cell integration needs final silicon. It will be backwards compatible with PS3 AND PS2. As far as the new controller rumor, he doesn't know much as far as design goes but did say that there is no screen on the controller, however, you can use another device to have that. I assume he's hinting at the vita? Anyways, that's the info I received. No need to believe it and I'm not saying it is 100% accurate, just going by what I've been told.

Isn't this like the polar opposite of what has seemed likely? Stuff like getting rid of Cell altogether and therefore not having BC.

[Erebus]

I agree but still, 512Mb OS for a console?

We want that cross-game voice chat this time.

[meta4]

Hey folks. Just got approved and this is my first post! I hate to be that "guy" that brings more "insider information" to the table(especially since it's my first post and nobody knows if I'm trustworthy), but I will be for right now. I have a friend who is very, very close with Sony. I won't say what he does or who he is, but I can relay what he has told me. I haven't kept up on this page completely so hopefully I'm bringing some new information. I showed him the rumored leaks from yesterday and he said the only thing they really got right was the RAM. According to him(I don't know tech talk very well so you might understand this better than I) the APU has 4 steamroller cores in it, bandwidth to the GDDR5 is high. Cell runs the show(OS, security, IO, etc.) and also acts as a satellite/accelerator processor for the steamroller cores. APU has access to the XDR in a similar way that RSX does. There is an SCC(Super Companion Chip) inside as well. The ram is only 3.5gb and is in 3 pools. 2GB GDDR5 for the APU(which is not an A10), 1GB DDR3 for the SCC, and 512mb XDR(for Cell). He said the APU has 256GB/s to the GDDR5, devkits though. There is no cell in the devkit yet, maybe 1st party ones, cell integration needs final silicon. It will be backwards compatible with PS3 AND PS2. As far as the new controller rumor, he doesn't know much as far as design goes but did say that there is no screen on the controller, however, you can use another device to have that. I assume he's hinting at the vita? Anyways, that's the info I received. No need to believe it and I'm not saying it is 100% accurate, just going by what I've been told.

Welcome to GAF! Someone should translate this post into layman terms. Is this good or bad?

[BlackJace]

Hey folks. Just got approved and this is my first post! I hate to be that "guy" that brings more "insider information" to the table(especially since it's my first post and nobody knows if I'm trustworthy), but I will be for right now. I have a friend who is very, very close with Sony. I won't say what he does or who he is, but I can relay what he has told me. I haven't kept up on this page completely so hopefully I'm bringing some new information. I showed him the rumored leaks from yesterday and he said the only thing they really got right was the RAM. According to him(I don't know tech talk very well so you might understand this better than I) the APU has 4 steamroller cores in it, bandwidth to the GDDR5 is high. Cell runs the show(OS, security, IO, etc.) and also acts as a satellite/accelerator processor for the steamroller cores. APU has access to the XDR in a similar way that RSX does. There is an SCC(Super Companion Chip) inside as well. The ram is only 3.5gb and is in 3 pools. 2GB GDDR5 for the APU(which is not an A10), 1GB DDR3 for the SCC, and 512mb XDR(for Cell). He said the APU has 256GB/s to the GDDR5, devkits though. There is no cell in the devkit yet, maybe 1st party ones, cell integration needs final silicon. It will be backwards compatible with PS3 AND PS2. As far as the new controller rumor, he doesn't know much as far as design goes but did say that there is no screen on the controller, however, you can use another device to have that. I assume he's hinting at the vita? Anyways, that's the info I received. No need to believe it and I'm not saying it is 100% accurate, just going by what I've been told.

Red flags.

EDIT: Welcome, by the way. You couldn't have picked a better time to have your account activated, as the fun is just beginning.

[i-Lo]

Hey folks. Just got approved and this is my first post! I hate to be that "guy" that brings more "insider information" to the table(especially since it's my first post and nobody knows if I'm trustworthy), but I will be for right now. I have a friend who is very, very close with Sony. I won't say what he does or who he is, but I can relay what he has told me. I haven't kept up on this page completely so hopefully I'm bringing some new information. I showed him the rumored leaks from yesterday and he said the only thing they really got right was the RAM. According to him(I don't know tech talk very well so you might understand this better than I) the APU has 4 steamroller cores in it, bandwidth to the GDDR5 is high. Cell runs the show(OS, security, IO, etc.) and also acts as a satellite/accelerator processor for the steamroller cores. APU has access to the XDR in a similar way that RSX does. There is an SCC(Super Companion Chip) inside as well. The ram is only 3.5gb and is in 3 pools. 2GB GDDR5 for the APU(which is not an A10), 1GB DDR3 for the SCC, and 512mb XDR(for Cell). He said the APU has 256GB/s to the GDDR5, devkits though. There is no cell in the devkit yet, maybe 1st party ones, cell integration needs final silicon. It will be backwards compatible with PS3 AND PS2. As far as the new controller rumor, he doesn't know much as far as design goes but did say that there is no screen on the controller, however, you can use another device to have that. I assume he's hinting at the vita? Anyways, that's the info I received. No need to believe it and I'm not saying it is 100% accurate, just going by what I've been told.

Wait wait... what!?

Also, what's SCC?

[Baki]

Hey folks. Just got approved and this is my first post! I hate to be that "guy" that brings more "insider information" to the table(especially since it's my first post and nobody knows if I'm trustworthy), but I will be for right now. I have a friend who is very, very close with Sony. I won't say what he does or who he is, but I can relay what he has told me. I haven't kept up on this page completely so hopefully I'm bringing some new information. I showed him the rumored leaks from yesterday and he said the only thing they really got right was the RAM. According to him(I don't know tech talk very well so you might understand this better than I) the APU has 4 steamroller cores in it, bandwidth to the GDDR5 is high. Cell runs the show(OS, security, IO, etc.) and also acts as a satellite/accelerator processor for the steamroller cores. APU has access to the XDR in a similar way that RSX does. There is an SCC(Super Companion Chip) inside as well. The ram is only 3.5gb and is in 3 pools. 2GB GDDR5 for the APU(which is not an A10), 1GB DDR3 for the SCC, and 512mb XDR(for Cell). He said the APU has 256GB/s to the GDDR5, devkits though. There is no cell in the devkit yet, maybe 1st party ones, cell integration needs final silicon. It will be backwards compatible with PS3 AND PS2. As far as the new controller rumor, he doesn't know much as far as design goes but did say that there is no screen on the controller, however, you can use another device to have that. I assume he's hinting at the vita? Anyways, that's the info I received. No need to believe it and I'm not saying it is 100% accurate, just going by what I've been told.

Sony using XDR? Doesn't seem plausible.

[Globox_82]

Hey folks. Just got approved and this is my first post! I hate to be that "guy" that brings more "insider information" to the table(especially since it's my first post and nobody knows if I'm trustworthy), but I will be for right now. I have a friend who is very, very close with Sony. I won't say what he does or who he is, but I can relay what he has told me. I haven't kept up on this page completely so hopefully I'm bringing some new information. I showed him the rumored leaks from yesterday and he said the only thing they really got right was the RAM. According to him(I don't know tech talk very well so you might understand this better than I) the APU has 4 steamroller cores in it, bandwidth to the GDDR5 is high. Cell runs the show(OS, security, IO, etc.) and also acts as a satellite/accelerator processor for the steamroller cores. APU has access to the XDR in a similar way that RSX does. There is an SCC(Super Companion Chip) inside as well. The ram is only 3.5gb and is in 3 pools. 2GB GDDR5 for the APU(which is not an A10), 1GB DDR3 for the SCC, and 512mb XDR(for Cell). He said the APU has 256GB/s to the GDDR5, devkits though. There is no cell in the devkit yet, maybe 1st party ones, cell integration needs final silicon. It will be backwards compatible with PS3 AND PS2. As far as the new controller rumor, he doesn't know much as far as design goes but did say that there is no screen on the controller, however, you can use another device to have that. I assume he's hinting at the vita? Anyways, that's the info I received. No need to believe it and I'm not saying it is 100% accurate, just going by what I've been told.

Sounds horrible, but thanks for sharing. Just to be clear in case you don't know. Lying about this things will give you a ban

[Glorified G]

Hey folks. Just got approved and this is my first post! I hate to be that "guy" that brings more "insider information" to the table(especially since it's my first post and nobody knows if I'm trustworthy), but I will be for right now. I have a friend who is very, very close with Sony. I won't say what he does or who he is, but I can relay what he has told me. I haven't kept up on this page completely so hopefully I'm bringing some new information. I showed him the rumored leaks from yesterday and he said the only thing they really got right was the RAM. According to him(I don't know tech talk very well so you might understand this better than I) the APU has 4 steamroller cores in it, bandwidth to the GDDR5 is high. Cell runs the show(OS, security, IO, etc.) and also acts as a satellite/accelerator processor for the steamroller cores. APU has access to the XDR in a similar way that RSX does. There is an SCC(Super Companion Chip) inside as well. The ram is only 3.5gb and is in 3 pools. 2GB GDDR5 for the APU(which is not an A10), 1GB DDR3 for the SCC, and 512mb XDR(for Cell). He said the APU has 256GB/s to the GDDR5, devkits though. There is no cell in the devkit yet, maybe 1st party ones, cell integration needs final silicon. It will be backwards compatible with PS3 AND PS2. As far as the new controller rumor, he doesn't know much as far as design goes but did say that there is no screen on the controller, however, you can use another device to have that. I assume he's hinting at the vita? Anyways, that's the info I received. No need to believe it and I'm not saying it is 100% accurate, just going by what I've been told.

You say DF only got the ram part right yet you post ram specs that are completely different.

[gofreak]

how about something like Flash or Silverlight but on a bigger scale? Like when you download a flash game, you're not downloading all the game's data are you? You already have some files on your computer which that data is making use of. Know what I mean?

To draw another analogy...like LittleBigPlanet? You download the game and have all its assets, and then just download small description files for subsequent levels that actually put the assets together and script the level...

...except for general games I think that'd be too inflexible, no? Devs will want to use their own assets.

I think if you can accelerate games delivery like in that video I posted it would reach the same ultimate goal (short time from wanting to play a game to playing a game), but without the inflexibility about what data you can use in a game.

the things that bothers me the most about Durango rumor is not 3GB of ram for OS, but two cores reserved for it as well.

Don't be surprised if Orbis does this too. I know Eurogamer suggests otherwise, but when they talk about relative focus of resources, they may be considering RAM & cpu, not cpu alone.

[Marco1]

If PS4 is more of a pure gaming console then nextbox then Sony have my money day one.
If this is the truth then it looks like I'll be a one console person next-gen.
Fuck you MS for trying to be a jack of all trades yet master of none.

[Monas]

The ram is only 3.5gb and is in 3 pools. 2GB GDDR5 for the APU(which is not an A10), 1GB DDR3 for the SCC, and 512mb XDR(for Cell).

This doesn't make sense.


Also having a Cell along with an 4, 6 or 8 core x86 CPU and a GPU, it would make the console a beast graphically but not so cheap to manufacture which defies the purpose of off-the-shelf HW.

Isn't the Cell discontinued?

[Saberus]

Total BS.. you can't have a x86 and Cell process the same data.. each one would have to be programed separately??

[michaelius]

PS4 is a game console, not a desktop pc, or a tablet of some sort. If they are really keeping the OS memory footprint so low, that can only mean that they are really focusing on what is the primary purpose of a console, and i like that approach.

Actually it's logical when you think about this generation experiences they had.

Sony took a lot of shit for advertising system as do everything multimedia center and the sales incresed thanks to dedicating resources to 1st party studios and reduction of price.

Microsoft never had much problems with sales and once they introduced kinect they received major boost as well as increased price of the kinect+x360 combo.

[quest]

I agree, except for the without focus part. I think it will be focused, and these dedicated ram and cpu cores to OS rumors paint a pretty obvious picture of their continued focus on Kinect, apps, casual, media and ads ads ads. Kinect 2.0 is coming with EVERY 720, I will bet all kinds of money on it and thats part of where the ram and cpu is going with whatever new shit they are doing with it. I have a couple friends that are going to be all kinds of excited for it but it turns me right off. If I do jump into next gen my only hope is PS4 doesn't go that route and keeps their OS clean, tight and useful like XMB or even Vita bubbles (which may be a possibility since we haven't seen the PS4 controller yet).

This is not the year 2000 both boxes will be competing with set top boxes from apple, google and other companies. Both will have plenty of APPs and other non gaming functions. While not important to the hard core gamer it will be very important in 2-3 years when prices drop to the level more casuals will look at the systems. I am getting a PS4 at launch but hope the OS can provide all those extras and smooth multi-tasking to keep up with the next xbox. More people who buy it the better far as I am concerned. People just have to accept the fact these are not just gaming machines anymore. Even Nintendo is doing things like Wii-TV.

[GHG]

Hey folks. Just got approved and this is my first post! I hate to be that "guy" that brings more "insider information" to the table(especially since it's my first post and nobody knows if I'm trustworthy), but I will be for right now. I have a friend who is very, very close with Sony. I won't say what he does or who he is, but I can relay what he has told me. I haven't kept up on this page completely so hopefully I'm bringing some new information. I showed him the rumored leaks from yesterday and he said the only thing they really got right was the RAM. According to him(I don't know tech talk very well so you might understand this better than I) the APU has 4 steamroller cores in it, bandwidth to the GDDR5 is high. Cell runs the show(OS, security, IO, etc.) and also acts as a satellite/accelerator processor for the steamroller cores. APU has access to the XDR in a similar way that RSX does. There is an SCC(Super Companion Chip) inside as well. The ram is only 3.5gb and is in 3 pools. 2GB GDDR5 for the APU(which is not an A10), 1GB DDR3 for the SCC, and 512mb XDR(for Cell). He said the APU has 256GB/s to the GDDR5, devkits though. There is no cell in the devkit yet, maybe 1st party ones, cell integration needs final silicon. It will be backwards compatible with PS3 AND PS2. As far as the new controller rumor, he doesn't know much as far as design goes but did say that there is no screen on the controller, however, you can use another device to have that. I assume he's hinting at the vita? Anyways, that's the info I received. No need to believe it and I'm not saying it is 100% accurate, just going by what I've been told.

So essentially there will be 2 processors, 1 Cell and 1 Steamroller 4 Core?

And the Cell handles IO requests instead of the SCC???

I'm calling BS on this one. Either some of the information you were given was lost in translation or your friend is having you on.

[Codeblew]

Basically a bunch of bullshit that most people interested in a dedicated gaming console wouldn't care about. All else being equal, it would be: PS4 = 8 cores for gaming, 3.5 gigs of GDDR5 for gaming. Xbox 3 = 6 cores for gaming, 5 gigs of DDR3 for gaming. Also, wouldn't both companies disable some cores from the CPU to increase production yields?

It is very likely that PS4 will reserve 1 core for guaranteed service on background processes.

[Can Crusher]

Isn't this like the polar opposite of what has seemed likely? Stuff like getting rid of Cell altogether and therefore not having BC.

Some stuff in there has been talked about, 4 steamroller cores for example. The cell cpu in it would align with some patents that Sony filled considering a HSA design. The ram talk and division don't see to make much sense according to what we "know". The rest I don't know.

But you know, these days everyone is an insider...

[Gorillaz]

Being BC with The Cell? You lost me on that one.

[Globox_82]

So essentially there will be 2 processors, 1 Cell and 1 Steamroller 4 Core? And the Cell handles IO requests instead of the SCC??? I'm calling BS on this one.

yeah sounds like bs. Sounds like complex mess, not what rumors are suggesting that sony is going for more simple off the shelf parts machine. this sounds like some over enginered mess that will cost a lot of money to make.

[Zeal]

Can't...contain...hype...much...longer!!!!!!!

This. It has finally begun.

Flood gates opening very, very soon.

[Globox_82]

Some stuff in there has been talked about, 4 steamroller cores for example. The cell cpu in it would align with some patents that Sony filled considering a HSA design. The ram talk and division don't see to make much sense according to what we "know". The rest I don't know. But you know, these days everyone is an insider...

There are a couple of guys on this forum that know a lot but are not saying anything. which leads me to believe most of rumors could be misleading us from real facts. Or there is a bit of true in all of them.