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PepperJack
Banned
(01-23-2013, 12:45 PM)
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So what are the chances that NT actually patches in

1) Enemy attacks that prevent you going into the air all the time
2) Better style meter
?

PC version out in 2 days - already told them I'm going to be sick that day at work...
ThoughtsOfSpeaking
But not of thinking first
(01-23-2013, 01:00 PM)
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I've been giving it some thought and I now find the portrayal of vergil in this game far more offensive than I ever found donte, tgs trailer included. They just threw away everything about the character that was badass, and in return turned in into a swarmy manipulative cunt. Vergil of old was a man of honor, even as nelo angleo, he hated guns and only saught power for his own protection, not because he wanted to lord over people.

say what you want about DmC Dante but he still has some element of the og personality. Vergil is just another character with the sane name shoehorned in for fan service.
LTWheels
Member
(01-23-2013, 01:08 PM)
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Japan sale figures are out. Got number 1 there as well.
ThoughtsOfSpeaking
But not of thinking first
(01-23-2013, 01:35 PM)
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Originally Posted by LTWheels

Japan sale figures are out. Got number 1 there as well.


Is 115,438 that good for a DMC title though? Seems a little on the low side.


Edit: DMC4 did 205,390 in its first week on PS3
40,023 on 360.
Last edited by ThoughtsOfSpeaking; 01-23-2013 at 01:40 PM.
Glass Rebel
Member
(01-23-2013, 01:37 PM)
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Originally Posted by ThoughtsOfSpeaking

Is 115.438 that good for a DMC title though? Seems a little on the low side.

From that thread DMC4 sold 240k first week with PS3 and 360 combined. 115k is only for the PS3 version, 360 didn't chart.
Korigama
Member
(01-23-2013, 01:38 PM)
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Originally Posted by ThoughtsOfSpeaking

Is 115.438 that good for a DMC title though? Seems a little on the low side.

It is on the low side.

Originally Posted by Road



1/2 is better than the 1/3 in the UK.

Victory?

WickedLaharl
Member
(01-23-2013, 01:39 PM)
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Originally Posted by ThoughtsOfSpeaking

Is 115.438 that good for a DMC title though? Seems a little on the low side.

Compared to DMC4 nope.

Total reboot rejection so far.
call_kotaku
Member
(01-23-2013, 01:39 PM)
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I always thought it was Capcom as a company that had a hard-on for Western games, not Japanese consumers.

Are these figures actually surprising?
aliencowz7
Member
(01-23-2013, 01:40 PM)

Originally Posted by ThoughtsOfSpeaking

Is 115.438 that good for a DMC title though? Seems a little on the low side.

You can't really compare sales directly to older DMC games, the industry sales wise is very different now then it was back then. Game sales in general have been down pretty much yearly at this point.

For the best results you would need to compare it to other similar releases coming out recently.
Acquiescence
Member
(01-23-2013, 01:42 PM)
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Originally Posted by Media Create

04./00. [PS3] Devil May Cry HD Collection <ACT> (Capcom) {2012.03.22} (4.990) - 43.791 / NEW

That was the last DMC release before DmC.
ThoughtsOfSpeaking
But not of thinking first
(01-23-2013, 01:43 PM)
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Originally Posted by call_kotaku

I always thought it was Capcom as a company that had a hard-on for Western games, not Japanese consumers.

Are these figures actually surprising?

Considering that Japan have been rabidly supporting a lot of capcoms missteps (ORC, RE6 etc) yes I would say it was surprising.

Japan is the only terriory where DmC hit number one on the Amazon best seller list too. It certainly doesn't bode well.

Originally Posted by Acquiescence

That was the last DMC release before DmC.

What HD collection bar GOW has ever charted big? Bit silly to compare the two.
Last edited by ThoughtsOfSpeaking; 01-23-2013 at 01:45 PM.
SolarPowered
Member
(01-23-2013, 01:43 PM)
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Originally Posted by Korigama

It is on the low side.

Capcom had a real good thing going. It seemed like a perfectly stable franchise.
Raxus
Member
(01-23-2013, 01:45 PM)
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Originally Posted by aliencowz7

For the best results you would need to compare it to other similar releases coming out recently.

What would you compare it to? Action games aren't frequent and the other ones coming this year are from an established franchise GoW: Ascension and Bayonetta 2 sometime in the near future.
aliencowz7
Member
(01-23-2013, 01:49 PM)

Originally Posted by Raxus

What would you compare it to? Action games aren't frequent and the other ones coming this year are from an established franchise GoW: Ascension and Bayonetta 2 sometime in the near future.

Sales of bayonetta 2 would likely be a good comparison point, both ended up with a sizable amount of fan controversy. GoW would be a hard comparison because DMC has never been at the same popularity level as GoW.

Really though there isn't a super reasonable comparison to be made when it comes to DmC, I would just advise any comparisons to older entries in the franchise sales wise be taken with a grain of salt because everything is selling less then stuff did back then.
Glass Rebel
Member
(01-23-2013, 01:51 PM)
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Originally Posted by aliencowz7

Sales of bayonetta 2 would likely be a good comparison point, both ended up with a sizable amount of fan controversy. GoW would be a hard comparison because DMC has never been at the same popularity level as GoW.

Really though there isn't a super reasonable comparison to be made when it comes to DmC, I would just advise any comparisons to older entries in the franchise sales wise be taken with a grain of salt because everything is selling less then stuff did back then.

Bayonetta 2 wouldn't be a good comparison at all. Just look at the vastly different userbases, Wii U won't even come close to PS3+360 by the time it releases.
ThoughtsOfSpeaking
But not of thinking first
(01-23-2013, 01:51 PM)
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Originally Posted by aliencowz7

You can't really compare sales directly to older DMC games, the industry sales wise is very different now then it was back then. Game sales in general have been down pretty much yearly at this point.

For the best results you would need to compare it to other similar releases coming out recently.

That is nonsense.

compare RE6 sales to RE5 in Japan.

I'm not discounting that the economic climate has changed but especially for big capcom and Nintendo franchises Japan has consistently proved that they are willing to buy sequels to their favorite brands.
Last edited by ThoughtsOfSpeaking; 01-23-2013 at 01:55 PM.
V_Arnold
Member
(01-23-2013, 01:54 PM)
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Folks that do not dabble in sales analyzing would do good to stay away from overanalyzing the meaning behind DmC's sales. It is absolutely more than "total reboot rejection", it is more like market saturation. While a DMC5 would have done better, I do not doubt that, especially with no angry fanbase trying to lower sales any possible way, it would still not likely reach DMC4 numbers. 2009 was a good year to launch a game like DMC4, and even Xbox 360 sales mattered back then, to a certain extent. (40k vs 5k now..8 times the difference - with more overall sold 360 now.)
aliencowz7
Member
(01-23-2013, 01:54 PM)

Originally Posted by Glass Rebel

Bayonetta 2 wouldn't be a good comparison at all. Just look at the vastly different userbases, Wii U won't even come close to PS3+360 by the time it releases.

That would be why I continued on to say that there isn't really a perfect comparison to go with, but comparing DmC directly with DMC4 is just as silly considering game sales in general have gone down pretty much yearly since the ps2 / early ps3 days.

Even DMC3 which most people would consider the highest quality entry in the series isn't that far ahead of DmC going off that graph, and that was in a much healthier market.
jett
Member
(01-23-2013, 01:58 PM)
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Poor Platinum going all-in on the Wii U. Hopefully their U titles sell well.
Glass Rebel
Member
(01-23-2013, 02:00 PM)
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Originally Posted by V_Arnold

Folks that do not dabble in sales analyzing would do good to stay away from overanalyzing the meaning behind DmC's sales. It is absolutely more than "total reboot rejection", it is more like market saturation. While a DMC5 would have done better, I do not doubt that, especially with no angry fanbase trying to lower sales any possible way, it would still not likely reach DMC4 numbers. 2009 was a good year to launch a game like DMC4, and even Xbox 360 sales mattered back then, to a certain extent. (40k vs 5k now..8 times the difference - with more overall sold 360 now.)

I don't think anybody was expecting it to reach DMC4 numbers but Capcom expected 2m and it looks like it'll have a really hard time reaching even 1.5m from initial reports. Surely not the success they expected.

Originally Posted by jett

Poor Platinum going all-in on the Wii U. Hopefully their U titles sell well.

Published by Nintendo so no fucks will be given. And I'd be very surprised if MGR isn't their most successful title, a sequel looks very likely IMO.
aliencowz7
Member
(01-23-2013, 02:05 PM)

Originally Posted by ThoughtsOfSpeaking

That is nonsense.

compare RE6 sales to RE5 in Japan.

I'm not discounting that the economic climate has changed but especially for big capcom and Nintendo franchises Japan has consistently proved that they are willing to buy sequels to their favorite brands.

Very few series have been getting anything other then series low or close to series low sales lately, I think the current sales of DmC is pretty close to a range that anyone could have reasonably expected of any DMC game right now.

Capcom likely won't be happy with it but they are pretty bad with overexpecting sales wise.
ThoughtsOfSpeaking
But not of thinking first
(01-23-2013, 02:11 PM)
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Originally Posted by aliencowz7

Very few series have been getting anything other then series low or close to series low sales lately, I think the current sales of DmC is pretty close to a range that anyone could have reasonably expected of any DMC game right now.

Capcom likely won't be happy with it but they are pretty bad with overexpecting sales wise.

Well honestly I think this defending (both of the Japanese and European numbers) is bunch of horsecrap. However, I don't follow sales-age very often so I'll take your word for it.

I just want to see the excuses if DmC falls significantly down the charts next week. Likewise when GOW:A comes out in march and sells much closer to its usual numbers, least in Japan.
jett
Member
(01-23-2013, 02:13 PM)
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Originally Posted by ThoughtsOfSpeaking

Well honestly I think this defending is bunch of horsecrap. However, I don't follow sales-age very often so I'll take your word for it.

I just want to see the excuses if DmC falls significantly down the charts next week. Likewise when GOW:A comes out in march and sells much closer to its usual numbers, least in Japan.

What excuses? Do you know anything about the Japanese market? DmC is guaranteed to fall off a cliff sales-wise next week, like 99% of the software that gets released in that place.
V_Arnold
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(01-23-2013, 02:13 PM)
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Originally Posted by ThoughtsOfSpeaking

Well honestly I think this defending is bunch of horsecrap. However, I don't follow sales-age very often so I'll take your word for it.

I just want to see the excuses if DmC falls significantly down the charts next week. Likewise when GOW:A comes out in march and sells much closer to its usual numbers, least in Japan.

We are not defending the low sales of DmC. But there are reasons for it to do how it does, and it goes further than "barf, NT/Donte".
ThoughtsOfSpeaking
But not of thinking first
(01-23-2013, 02:19 PM)
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Originally Posted by V_Arnold

We are not defending the low sales of DmC. But there are reasons for it to do how it does, and it goes further than "barf, NT/Donte".

Which nobody has said that.

But it's a bit more than "it's just the economy, DMC4 can't be used to compare" too.


it's not that the sales are lower...it's that they are so significantly lower.

But like I said, I'm not a sales-age guy. I'm just saying it is not looking good for DmC and this reboot is looking less justifed by the day.


Edit: really looking forward to the responses in the NPD :)
Last edited by ThoughtsOfSpeaking; 01-23-2013 at 02:21 PM.
Blader
Member
(01-23-2013, 02:20 PM)
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I've been playing the demo on PS3 over and over, and I've gotten really comfortable with it, but the framerate (mainly during cutscenes) is kind of poor. For anyone who has the full game on PS3, is the framerate any better or just as bad?
V_Arnold
Member
(01-23-2013, 02:22 PM)
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Absolutely true that DmC being a "reboot" has something to do with the lower sales.

On the negative side, we have:
-A more negative word of mouth prelaunch compared to DMC4
-More market saturation
-In JP, cant rely on being multiplatform anymore
-USA is still a big question mark

On the plus side:
-Opportunity cost - DmC being outsourced allowed Capcom to create a new IP in the meantime (Dragon's Dogma)
-It is highly likely that DmC cost less to make compared to DMC4
-There has been times even now when positive word of mouth helped games to maintain good sales. Example: Sleeping Dogs, UK. It is possible that something like this will happen to DmC. The reaction to the game is positive.
Nouzka
Junior Member
(01-23-2013, 02:23 PM)
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Originally Posted by aliencowz7

Very few series have been getting anything other then series low or close to series low sales lately, I think the current sales of DmC is pretty close to a range that anyone could have reasonably expected of any DMC game right now.

Capcom likely won't be happy with it but they are pretty bad with overexpecting sales wise.

Is this really true? Like Resident Evil 6 sold better than Resident Evil 5, Yakuza 5 sold pretty much same as Yakuza 4 etc. Somehow I don't think DmC selling worse than previous titles is because some economy/market decline reason.
Fake Charlemagne
Junior Member
(01-23-2013, 02:23 PM)
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Though there's almost no way it'll ever happen, if this reboot doesn't pan out I'd actually like Capcom to admit that it wasn't that great of an idea. And while I'm fantasizing about things that will never happen, I'd also like them to go talk to Kamiya and work with P* to make DMC5. And then, world peace or something.

I guess the point that I've been struggling to properly articulate (and still am not sure I can) is that the game in every feels like a wolf in sheep's clothing. An imitator that learned the wrong lessons, and applied the wrong elements to the persona it's attempting to portray. Yeah I can talk all day about how the soft-lockon is imprecise, execution is far more forgiving, and the hit detection has sometimes gone apeshit on me, but that's boring. There's also the issue of this being a Devil May Cry game that in no way feels like one. There's no heart, and absolutely no style behind it. The previous games (we do not acknowledge DMC2) were equal parts the player and the game having fun. It was cheesy, but it was endearing at the same time. This new game though is just a bunch of afflicted looking characters tossing around swears. There's still a level of silliness to the game for sure, but I can't reconcile it with the inconsistent seriousness that the story throws at the player. I wish I could tell NT that needlessly peppering characters with intense trauma does not make them more compelling if they do absolutely nothing with it.
Sorian
Member
(01-23-2013, 02:25 PM)
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Here's my two cents. The game is good. In my opinion, it falls somewhere between Hitman Absolution and any proper sequel. What that means is the game is a good action game (though I will admit with dumbed down mechanics) and it did not tarnish its namesake however it could have easily not been a DMC game. The reason I put Absolution at the low end of this spectrum is because that was a game that was good for its genre but was not good enough to have the hitman tag on it. On the high end of the spectrum, obviously a good and proper sequel can and should have its name.

I fully expected (still expect) this game to sell less than past DMC games, that isn't a bomba to me at all though. The game is holding up on its merits and I don't mind if NT wants to continue with their formula here. They didn't disappoint and I don't hold any grudge against them.
ThoughtsOfSpeaking
But not of thinking first
(01-23-2013, 02:32 PM)
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Originally Posted by V_Arnold

Absolutely true that DmC being a "reboot" has something to do with the lower sales.

On the negative side, we have:
-A more negative word of mouth prelaunch compared to DMC4
-More market saturation
-In JP, cant rely on being multiplatform anymore
-USA is still a big question mark

On the plus side:
-Opportunity cost - DmC being outsourced allowed Capcom to create a new IP in the meantime (Dragon's Dogma)
-It is highly likely that DmC cost less to make compared to DMC4
-There has been times even now when positive word of mouth helped games to maintain good sales. Example: Sleeping Dogs, UK. It is possible that something like this will happen to DmC. The reaction to the game is positive.

As I've said many times, sales of this game will take off as soon as the price drops. It's going to be a great game for a impluse buy as it has reviewed really well.

I just don't think if the price is dropped capcom is going to make much in profit/covering costs. It will be purely to increase mindshare for a sequel. It's really up to them to see if it is worth it to let retailers drop the price earlier than normal.
DihcarEM
Member
(01-23-2013, 02:35 PM)

Originally Posted by ThoughtsOfSpeaking

Well honestly I think this defending (both of the Japanese and European numbers) is bunch of horsecrap. However, I don't follow sales-age very often so I'll take your word for it.

I just want to see the excuses if DmC falls significantly down the charts next week. Likewise when GOW:A comes out in march and sells much closer to its usual numbers, least in Japan.

Haha, yeah it really is funny. And you don't have to wait for next week for the excuses, the fans are now doing NT's job of supplying excuses for the failure in sales numbers.
Let's not pretend like there was any other true reason for this reboot. Capcom only backed down from their fantasy numbers once they saw how much (well deserved) hate DmC got. Now we even got NT(via twitter) and their fans(on other forums) acting like the sales are in any way a victory.
And yes compared to Dmc4 this game is an utter failure, you can not overlook 5 years growth of user base for two consoles.
Capcom better get their stuff in order because they are fast track of becoming the biggest losers this generation with their string of flops.
Mike M
Member
(01-23-2013, 03:47 PM)
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Watching those combo videos, is it my imagination, or are they somehow getting the angel dodge without actually dodging any attacks to trigger it?

How do you accomplish that?
ThoughtsOfSpeaking
But not of thinking first
(01-23-2013, 03:50 PM)
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Originally Posted by Mike M

Watching those combo videos, is it my imagination, or are they somehow getting the angel dodge without actually dodging any attacks to trigger it?

How do you accomplish that?

You don't need to be attacked to angel dodge. Just double tap dodge in angel mode. First dodge is normal then you teleport.
SystemBug
Banned
(01-23-2013, 04:32 PM)
Sweet game and nice way to start of 2013.

I don't know if I'm allowed to do this but I wrote a review here

http://www.playereffort.com/?page_id=2022
(tell me what you guys think!)

Can't wait for the PC version and Bloody Palace.
Diablo Rosso
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(01-23-2013, 04:33 PM)
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Originally Posted by jett

Poor Platinum going all-in on the Wii U. Hopefully their U titles sell well.

They most likely won't.
Ein Bear
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(01-23-2013, 04:34 PM)
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Originally Posted by Blader5489

I've been playing the demo on PS3 over and over, and I've gotten really comfortable with it, but the framerate (mainly during cutscenes) is kind of poor. For anyone who has the full game on PS3, is the framerate any better or just as bad?

It might not FEEL like 60fps, but the framerate on the PS3 version is pretty solid for the most part. It's just the cutscenes that take a hit, strangely, the gameplay itself is fine.
Dahbomb
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(01-23-2013, 04:37 PM)
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Also consider that there exists no action game at 30 fps in which there is a big combo video making community.

Darksiders 2. Well I wouldn't say the community is big on making combo videos but combo videos HAVE been made for the game. Then again I guess you can say that game was also 60FPS on PC.

So what are the chances that NT actually patches in

1) Enemy attacks that prevent you going into the air all the time
2) Better style meter


PC version out in 2 days - already told them I'm going to be sick that day at work...

Chances of 2nd change are good since they changed it before as well. 1st change is very unlikely because you can take enemies extremely high up and no enemy has moves that can reach that far up. This has never been really addressed in a DMC game yet so I don't see it being addressed here.


Those Japanese sales number are what I expected. Not as bad as the UK numbers but still significantly less than DMC4's numbers.

I don't think the game will have legs in Japan but the game might have legs in Europe and USA. I expect 200k-300K NPD in USA and I feel that's a generous estimation. I still feel that Capcom can get close to their 2 million mark but it will come through discounted sales.
Last edited by Dahbomb; 01-23-2013 at 04:50 PM.
SystemBug
Banned
(01-23-2013, 04:46 PM)

Originally Posted by Dahbomb

Darksiders 2. Well I wouldn't say the community is big on making combo videos but combo videos HAVE been made for the game. Then again I guess you can say that game was also 60FPS on PC..

It ran like total trash on consoles during some instances. It wasn't a smooth 30FPS for sure
fi1ip
Junior Member
(01-23-2013, 05:02 PM)
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New Vergil is probably the lamest character ever featured in a Capcom video game.
Curufinwe
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(01-23-2013, 05:07 PM)
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Originally Posted by V_Arnold

Folks that do not dabble in sales analyzing would do good to stay away from overanalyzing the meaning behind DmC's sales. It is absolutely more than "total reboot rejection", it is more like market saturation. While a DMC5 would have done better, I do not doubt that, especially with no angry fanbase trying to lower sales any possible way, it would still not likely reach DMC4 numbers. 2009 was a good year to launch a game like DMC4, and even Xbox 360 sales mattered back then, to a certain extent. (40k vs 5k now..8 times the difference - with more overall sold 360 now.)

DMC 4 came out in 2008. DMC 5 should have been out in 2011, but Capcom thought Dragon's Bomba was worth doing instead and spending four years on.
iavi
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(01-23-2013, 05:31 PM)
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Just got my key from GMG!
Wonko_C
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(01-23-2013, 05:36 PM)
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Originally Posted by Miizy F Baby

Just got my key from GMG!

Does that mean you can play it right now or the game still has to unlock until the 25th? Because I'm about to pull the trigger on it.
Glass Rebel
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(01-23-2013, 05:39 PM)
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Originally Posted by Miizy F Baby

Just got my key from GMG!

same

let me pre-load, Gaben!
dmr87
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(01-23-2013, 05:42 PM)
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Originally Posted by Miizy F Baby

Just got my key from GMG!

Same.
robotzombie
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(01-23-2013, 05:46 PM)
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Originally Posted by Curufinwe

DMC 4 came out in 2008. DMC 5 should have been out in 2011, but Capcom thought Dragon's Bomba was worth doing instead and spending four years on.

Yeah shame on capcom for actually creating an exciting (and awesome) new IP, how dare all video games released ever be anything other than sequels
Curufinwe
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(01-23-2013, 05:51 PM)
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Originally Posted by robotzombie

Yeah shame on capcom for actually creating an exciting (and awesome) new IP, how dare all video games released ever be anything other than sequels

I'm glad you liked it, but from a business perspective it has returned disappointing sales considering the investment, and it didn't do that well with the critics either.
Sorian
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(01-23-2013, 05:51 PM)
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Originally Posted by Curufinwe

DMC 4 came out in 2008. DMC 5 should have been out in 2011, but Capcom thought Dragon's Bomba was worth doing instead and spending four years on.

I'll take another Dragon's Dogma any day over DMC, no matter what form DMC may be taking.
Chamber
love on your sleeve
(01-23-2013, 05:55 PM)
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Originally Posted by Dahbomb

I don't think the game will have legs in Japan but the game might have legs in Europe and USA. I expect 200k-300K NPD in USA and I feel that's a generous estimation. I still feel that Capcom can get close to their 2 million mark but it will come through discounted sales.

As my dear friend ezekial likes to point out, it's 2 million for the fiscal year. Good luck with that.

Originally Posted by Diablo Rosso

They most likely won't.

The one thing working in their favor is that Wii U owners don't have much in the way of choice. W101, Rayman and Pikmin 3 are about it for the first half of the year.
Dahbomb
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(01-23-2013, 05:57 PM)
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You can't really blame Capcom for putting out Dragon's Dogma despite it's lack of commercial success. It was a risky new IP and showed that Capcom is still willing to take risks.

The problem was putting so much talent behind it AND rushing it out the door poorly optimized on consoles.

As my dear friend ezekial likes to point out, it's 2 million for the fiscal year. Good luck with that.

2 million shipped not sold I believe, which they can still do.

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