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Gaming Truth
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(01-23-2013, 05:57 PM)
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The Kotaku article also claimed that the Orbis would be the first console to allow more than one user to log in at a time (360).

Despite that oversight, they do have over 90 pages of official PDFs they didn't elaborate on.
R10Neymarfan
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(01-23-2013, 05:59 PM)
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I don't get it, 8 GB of GDDR5 would be way too expensive. However there is also 2.2 GB of video memory so would that video memory (for the OS) be DDR3/4? The only thing I can think of is stacked 6 GB DDR 3/4 and 2 GB of GDDR5.
dragonelite
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(01-23-2013, 06:01 PM)
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Originally Posted by Razgreez

A 7970m is a downclocked 7870. "Mod" likely means they've increased the cooling and over-clocked it. It's just above the 7870 which is exactly what it is

I have the 7970m card in my laptop.
I believe it is just over 2Tflops and its clocked at 800mhz has 20 compute units good for 1280 shader cores.
ghst
thanks for the laugh
(01-23-2013, 06:01 PM)
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Originally Posted by Gemüsepizza

So they say it has or had 2 GB GDDR5 + 8 GB DDR3... Could this mean the final kit also has 4 GB GDDR5 + xy DDR3?

no, it means it's a PC. if the dev kits are running on 2GB's of DDR5, it's likely that the decision was made that once the fast bus was in place, it was much cheaper and more efficient to just throw another couple of GBs of DDR5 on there than have a split pool and separate bus for a bunch more DDR3.

it's a compromise and a split pool would've been a better solution, but $599 haunts them like a bloodthirsty spectre.
Last edited by ghst; 01-23-2013 at 06:05 PM.
The Delanator
Banned
(01-23-2013, 06:02 PM)

Originally Posted by R10Neymarfan

I don't get it, 8 GB of GDDR5 would be way too expensive. However there is also 2.2 GB of video memory so would that video memory (for the OS) be DDR3/4? The only thing I can think of is stacked 6 GB DDR 3/4 and 2 GB of GDDR5.

That's exactly where my mind went considering there should be a little extra RAM fro debugging.
Shikoro
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(01-23-2013, 06:04 PM)
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Originally Posted by somuchwater

New rumours from Kotaku!

http://kotaku.com/5977849/the-playst...e-specs-so-far

Who the fuck knows what to believe? They say it's pulled from "90 pages of PDFs" about Orbis, whatever that means.

Video Memory: 2.2 GB

Yeeeah, no.
Mindlog
(01-23-2013, 06:08 PM)
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Originally Posted by Shikoro

Yeeeah, no.

How do you suggest they mimic 4 GB of DDR 5 in a PC?
onQ123
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(01-23-2013, 06:17 PM)
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How would you feel about the PS4 being the most powerful android device on the market?
i-Lo
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(01-23-2013, 06:21 PM)
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Just to reiterate what Kotaku posted:

THE NEXT PLAYSTATION, AT A GLANCE

8GB system memory, 2.2GB video memory
4x Dual-Core AMD64 "Bulldozer" CPU, AMD R10xx Liverpool GPU
New controller features touch pad
Can link PSN accounts to controllers, allowing for multiple logins.

How can they say in the article that it's a dev kit and then go on to summarize it as the specs for PS4? Are they not aware that parts of dev kits almost never constitute what is in the retail box? Such blatant attempt to beguile the readers.

Originally Posted by Mindlog

How do you suggest they mimic 4 GB of DDR 5 in a PC?

This is what I think as well. Unless they can repurpose a GPU with 4GB GDDR5, something like this would be utilized for simulating the function of the retail box.
Razgreez
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(01-23-2013, 06:23 PM)
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Originally Posted by onQ123

How would you feel about the PS4 being the most powerful android device on the market?

I've always been speculating the companion chip some have mentioned very subtly could be an ARM design. It just makes sense. Perhaps the console would not have an android OS but it would have the ability to run android apps in some sort of android mode at least. I suppose this is all just born out my desire to have a single device attached to my TV that does everything
Heavy
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(01-23-2013, 06:24 PM)
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Originally Posted by i-Lo

Just to reiterate what Kotaku posted:



How can they say in the article that it's a dev kit and then go on to summarize it as the specs for PS4? Are they not aware that parts of dev kits almost never constitute what is in the retail box? Such blatant attempt to beguile the readers.

Umm they say right in the paragraph before:

We'll begin with the specs. And before we go any further, know that these are current specs for a PS4 development kit, not the final retail console itself. So while the general gist of the things you see here may be similar to what makes it into the actual commercial hardware, there's every chance some—if not all of it—changes, if only slightly.

AuthenticM
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(01-23-2013, 06:29 PM)
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Originally Posted by Sid

PS3 4000 I presume.....

I thought the super-slim was the 4000 ? Didn't the original slim have two models, with the second one missing some components and being labeled the 3000 ?
BloodMoney
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(01-23-2013, 06:30 PM)
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The Kotaku article mentions the PS4 will ship with standard AV cables. sike
Last edited by BloodMoney; 01-23-2013 at 06:33 PM.
i-Lo
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(01-23-2013, 06:43 PM)
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Originally Posted by Heavy

Umm they say right in the paragraph before:

That is what I was alluding to. They misrepresent and contradict their own statement in the heading of the summary. And people generally like to read information like that in summary/point form instead wading through multiple sentences.
DeFiBkIlLeR
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(01-23-2013, 06:56 PM)
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Originally Posted by mattp

so now the kotaku rumor is back on a bulldozer cpu again?
and 8gb of ram PLUS 2.2 of vram lol


My guess is that they will have been using the Bulldozer in the Dev kits because Jaguar CPU's aren't available yet.

An 8 core bulldozer down clocked to 1.6Ghz would be as close as you could get to the performance of 8 Jaguar cores.


Don't know about the memory though.
Sid
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(01-23-2013, 06:59 PM)
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Originally Posted by AuthenticM

I thought the super-slim was the 4000 ? Didn't the original slim have two models, with the second one missing some components and being labeled the 3000 ?

I think so but Jeff has been going on about a 4000 PS3 with HDMI pass through since forever,I don't think that's gonna happen though
RaijinFY
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(01-23-2013, 07:04 PM)
Probably an old kit. It's a PC.
Violater
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(01-23-2013, 07:08 PM)
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Fuck all these rumors.
i-Lo
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(01-23-2013, 07:14 PM)
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Originally Posted by Violater

Fuck all these rumors.

Crass though it may be, I am with you on this.
R10Neymarfan
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(01-23-2013, 07:15 PM)
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Let's just go with 4 GB of GDDR5 and everything else can be DDR3/4
Violater
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(01-23-2013, 07:16 PM)
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Originally Posted by i-Lo

Crass though it may be, I am with you on this.

I'm sorry it's been a long day, and gaf allows me to vent from time to time.
phosphor112
Banned
(01-23-2013, 07:23 PM)
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Originally Posted by Gaming Truth

The Kotaku article also claimed that the Orbis would be the first console to allow more than one user to log in at a time (360).

Despite that oversight, they do have over 90 pages of official PDFs they didn't elaborate on.

Lol yep.. and PS3 was second... maybe... logged on at once... at all times? And NOT just during a game? o_O

I'm not going to give them the benefit of the doubt though... time to read the info.

EDIT: 8 gigs of ram... wut?
Last edited by phosphor112; 01-23-2013 at 07:26 PM.
jeff_rigby
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(01-23-2013, 07:26 PM)
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Originally Posted by Sid

I think so but Jeff has been going on about a 4000 PS3 with HDMI pass through since forever,I don't think that's gonna happen though

Yes we got a shrink not a refresh in the PS3 4k and Microsoft did not release the Xbox 361. So there is no PS3 that can sell for less or sell in China (broken security key, price, not a PC because no Linux). Something is coming to replace it either a very cheap PS4 or new technology as a PS3 in 2014, same for Xbox 360 although it's in a much better place for price but worse as far as features.
Lord Error
Insane For Sony
(01-23-2013, 07:34 PM)
It is probably the case that 4x2 bulldozer is similar enough to 8x jaguar and that 8x jaguar cpu is not ready yet. Similar with memory, as there's proably no configurations that offer 4GB+ of GDDR5 as the only memory available, so they have to put as much GDDR as they can, and the rest is DDR3 (which is so cheap that it's probably cheaper to get an 8GB module now, so they just instructed devs how much they can actually use).
Last edited by Lord Error; 01-23-2013 at 07:37 PM.
Sid
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(01-23-2013, 07:36 PM)
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Originally Posted by jeff_rigby

Yes we got a shrink not a refresh in the PS3 4k and Microsoft did not release the Xbox 361. So there is no PS3 that can sell for less or sell in China (broken security key, price, not a PC because no Linux). Something is coming to replace it either a very cheap PS4 or new technology as a PS3 in 2014, same for Xbox 360 although it's in a much better place for price but worse as far as features.

Didn't Sony say they won't be shrinking the PS3 chipset down unless it can go down to 20nm?
ghst
thanks for the laugh
(01-23-2013, 07:38 PM)
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Originally Posted by Lord Error

It is probably the case that 4x2 bulldozer is similar enough to 8x jaguar and that 8x jaguar cpu is not ready yet. Similar with memory, as there's proably no configurations that offer 4GB+ of GDDR5 as the only memory available, so they have to put as much GDDR as they can, and the rest is DDR3 (which is so cheap that it's probably cheaper to get an 8GB module now, so they stuck that in, and instructed devs how much they can actually use).

it may also be that this devkit is from before it became apparent that steamroller wasn't going to make it in time, and with the help of a little corporate espionage they decided they'd rather just match durango's processor spec and pocket the difference than hold out for a 2014 release with a beefier CPU.
Last edited by ghst; 01-23-2013 at 07:40 PM.
Violater
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(01-23-2013, 07:44 PM)
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But I don't want a PS4 in 2013.
Give me the beef Sony, my 599 is waiting.
AgentP
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(01-23-2013, 07:57 PM)
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Originally Posted by RaijinFY

Probably an old kit. It's a PC.

Ding ding. Why would anyone expect anything different? The point of a non-final dev kit is for devs to have an approximate target to start work games. Go read about poor insomniac trying to get Resistance ready for launch day with early dev kits.

The good news now is the final console looks much more like a PC than the PS3 did, making the transition easier.
Commanche Raisin Toast
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(01-23-2013, 07:59 PM)
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Kotaku don't have any official PDFs. They are second hand reporting this info, which is old to begin with. We were talking bulldozer, 8gb, and 7xxx months ago.
phosphor112
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(01-23-2013, 08:07 PM)
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Originally Posted by Commanche Raisin Toast

Kotaku don't have any official PDFs. They are second hand reporting this info, which is old to begin with. We were talking bulldozer, 8gb, and 7xxx months ago.

I dont think 8gigs came up for Orbis before.
Proxy
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(01-23-2013, 08:17 PM)
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Originally Posted by phosphor112

I dont think 8gigs came up for Orbis before.

There was a rumor or two of dev kits with 8 or 16 GB iirc.
Can Crusher
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(01-23-2013, 08:20 PM)
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The specs from Kotaku are just crazy. People saying they prefer 4 GB of GDDR5 to this, are drinking the previous kool aid too much.

These dev kits are monsters! It would be perfect!
ThisWreckage
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(01-23-2013, 09:07 PM)
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Is it safe to say that the PS4 has a better chance of profiting out of the gates than the new Xbox? That's the way it certainly seems.
Sid
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(01-23-2013, 09:10 PM)
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Originally Posted by ThisWreckage

Is it safe to say that the PS4 has a better chance of profiting out of the gates than the new Xbox? That's the way it certainly seems.

It has a WAY better chance of making profits much earlier than the PS3.
prwxv3
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(01-23-2013, 09:11 PM)
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Originally Posted by Sid

It has a WAY better chance of making profits much earlier than the PS3.

That should not be that hard considering the PS3 was massively over-engineered. Glad they are not replicating that.
Proxy
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(01-23-2013, 09:22 PM)
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I can certainly see making a small profit or taking a small loss with returning to profitability really quick.
RoboPlato
I'd be in the dick
(01-23-2013, 09:49 PM)
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Originally Posted by ghst

it may also be that this devkit is from before it became apparent that steamroller wasn't going to make it in time, and with the help of a little corporate espionage they decided they'd rather just match durango's processor spec and pocket the difference than hold out for a 2014 release with a beefier CPU.

I have a feeling that they added the compute unit to aid the Jaguar CPU once they realized Steamroller wouldn't be ready. I do find it funny that it's supposedly exactly the same PC as Durango, clock speed and all.
i-Lo
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(01-23-2013, 09:52 PM)
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Originally Posted by RoboPlato

I have a feeling that they added the compute unit to aid the Jaguar CPU once they realized Steamroller wouldn't be ready. I do find it funny that it's supposedly exactly the same PC as Durango, clock speed and all.

I also hope it is to add to PS4's capabilities.
Insane Metal
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(01-23-2013, 09:55 PM)
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Originally Posted by Can Crusher

The specs from Kotaku are just crazy. People saying they prefer 4 GB of GDDR5 to this, are drinking the previous kool aid too much.

These dev kits are monsters! It would be perfect!

I do. The RAM in the devkits is DDR3 and Bulldozer is ridiculously inneficient. Way too power hungry for its performance.
RoboPlato
I'd be in the dick
(01-23-2013, 09:56 PM)
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Originally Posted by i-Lo

I also hope it is to add to PS4's capabilities.

Of course, I just think it's there to hit their original performance targets since plans changed and they don't want to delay. Same with GDDR5 versus stacked RAM.
i-Lo
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(01-23-2013, 10:11 PM)
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Originally Posted by RoboPlato

Of course, I just think it's there to hit their original performance targets since plans changed and they don't want to delay. Same with GDDR5 versus stacked RAM.

While I hope for the same, could it also be used for video/audio (non gaming OS) related functionality? Also, does the PS4 possesses a separate audio signal processor so as not burden the CPU with that task?
Ashes
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(01-23-2013, 10:25 PM)
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Originally Posted by Razgreez

You could actually. We already have a Tahiti 7870. What if this 7970m is a mobile version of that chip. In essence a GCN 7970m...

They will. Btw since I am now convinced that 8 jaguar cores roughly equal a10 5700k/ a10 5800k.. I've been looking into bottlenecks - where amd has been cutting corners ( to meet pricepoints?) etc. This article explains it better:

http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/...0k,3224-5.html

And luckily for us hexus went and tested it at higher still levels...

http://hexus.net/tech/reviews/cpu/46...ds-faster-ram/

Edit: Unfortunately, i've read that latency then becomes a factor.
Last edited by Ashes; 01-23-2013 at 10:32 PM.
RoboPlato
I'd be in the dick
(01-23-2013, 10:33 PM)
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Originally Posted by i-Lo

While I hope for the same, could it also be used for video/audio (non gaming OS) related functionality? Also, does the PS4 possesses a separate audio signal processor so as not burden the CPU with that task?

It probably could. I honestly don't know. I assume it'll have something dedicated to audio. The DF rumor stated that the compute module would likely be used for physics calculations and that would take a ton of strain off the CPU alone, especially since I think that physics and procedural animation are going to be very important next gen.
AgentP
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(01-23-2013, 10:39 PM)
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Originally Posted by Can Crusher

The specs from Kotaku are just crazy. People saying they prefer 4 GB of GDDR5 to this, are drinking the previous kool aid too much.

These dev kits are monsters! It would be perfect!

I don't want a low end PC for a console.
R10Neymarfan
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(01-23-2013, 10:44 PM)
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I'm sure no one has acknowledge this, but DDR3 will get more expensive as Next gen rolls on. Once DDR4 starts production watch as DDR3 skyrockets into the hundreds or at least looking at previous history (DDR1, DDR2) dictates. So GDDR5 won't be so bad because at least the RAM long term won't be as expensive. So that makes think Microsoft is screwed if they go exclusively with DDR3. Or will both companies switch to DDR4 when that time comes? It's a thought that as gone unanswered on here.
oversitting
Banned
(01-24-2013, 03:19 AM)

Originally Posted by R10Neymarfan

I'm sure no one has acknowledge this, but DDR3 will get more expensive as Next gen rolls on. Once DDR4 starts production watch as DDR3 skyrockets into the hundreds or at least looking at previous history (DDR1, DDR2) dictates. So GDDR5 won't be so bad because at least the RAM long term won't be as expensive. So that makes think Microsoft is screwed if they go exclusively with DDR3. Or will both companies switch to DDR4 when that time comes? It's a thought that as gone unanswered on here.

you know these guys pay companies to make the chip and orders the production of them right? The cost would either get cheaper or stay the same.
Razgreez
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(01-24-2013, 03:48 AM)
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Originally Posted by Ashes1396


Edit: Unfortunately, i've read that latency then becomes a factor.

There are memory controllers in development to help overcome those latency issues - or at least improve performance

http://www.chipestimate.com/techtalk.php?d=2011-11-22

The above is an old article that discusses the latency issues
Brad Grenz
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(01-24-2013, 05:09 AM)
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Originally Posted by oversitting

you know these guys pay companies to make the chip and orders the production of them right? The cost would either get cheaper or stay the same.

Sure, but at a certain point you're stuck paying a lot more to "special order" a depreciated RAM type compared to the stuff still in mass production.
jeff_rigby
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(01-24-2013, 10:45 AM)
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I previously posted a slide from the leaked Xbox 720 powerpoint below that Showed Microsoft and Sony were going to support Google TV like features and XTV:







Bottom right in the above slide has Microsoft speculating that the PS4 would support Google TV and in addition "Tech Forward" means it will support New technology that's coming; I.E. New accessories and features that will be released similar to how the PS3 was supported with Firmware updates.

It's related to providing support for "Always On Connected devices in the Digital home" seen in the following slide. Set Top boxes and servers for 6.4 billion Handhelds as well as 600 million new internet connected Homes/living rooms. Why? because ATSC 2.0 starts in 2013 and it's standard will be picked up and supported by both Cable and OTA. What's the opportunity; Most of the TVs on the market can't support OTA 1080P, 1080P S3D or XTV but on Cable TV with RVU or HDMI pass-through or OTA with a digital tuner or Nanse both Xbox 720 and PS4 can support this new standard making the next generation game consoles a all in one entertainment "does everything" platform.



ATSC 2.0 work on track

Taking the TV experience to a new level is the objective of ATSC 2.0, an effort that will introduce a number of enhanced features based on newly-developed standards and the focused application of existing standards. Work on ATSC 2.0, which has been under way since last year, includes a suite of new services, including non-real-time transmission, Internet-related enhancements, 3D TV broadcasting, and advanced video compression.



Announcement occurring at or slightly after the ATSC 2.0 dates in the above chart might be about ATSC 2.0/RVU features and the Firmware updates that are coming and not about the PS4 or Xbox 720.

This article Sony's PS4 Expected to Be Announced in March, but Released After the Xbox 720 has several dates that are rumored for PS4 information releases which might be about what I mention above.

If you've followed my posts you are probably tired of my constantly harping on webkit/HTML5 and it's coming with major firmware updates and new features coming to the PS3. My fault is in being too early and falsely speculating multiple times when it might be implemented. In hindsight we can now see the multiple statements from Sony employees did have meat but were also inaccurate as the release times. For instance we were told that the PS3 browser would support S3D in a year, it will be slightly more than 2 years but likely true. We were told that Sony is betting on Handhelds and the 6.4 billion new phones and Tablets by 2016 predicted in one of the above as well as Microsoft going after that market too is now explained.

Why the predicted massive expansion in handhelds => low prices, new features enabled by much more powerful hardware and infrastructure. The PS4 and Xbox 720 are part of the infrastructure of always on connected home devices that will serve and support handhelds.

Part of ATSC 2.0 is support for Mobile Digital TV and that's for handheld devices also.

ATSC 2.0 will emerge as a new candidate broadcast standard early this year with a goal of deploying it in CE products by year-end, Richard Chernock, chairman of the ATSC technology and standards group, told us. The candidate standard designation is a precursor to formal implementation of ATSC 2.0, he said.

The new standard, under development for 18 months, is designed to blend broadcast TV with the Internet in providing a variety interactive capabilities such as pushing news alerts to Internet-capable TVs much as they are delivered to smartphones via wireless networks, industry officials said. The standard also would allow for in-home viewing of broadcast content on mobile devices like tablets, industry officials said.

Last edited by jeff_rigby; 01-24-2013 at 04:15 PM.
specialguy
Banned
(01-24-2013, 10:49 AM)

Originally Posted by Brad Grenz

Sure, but at a certain point you're stuck paying a lot more to "special order" a depreciated RAM type compared to the stuff still in mass production.

Yeah but as I said, what of the GDDR3 and XDR in PS3/360?

We dont know what they pay for it but it doesn't seem to be a dealbreaker.

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