[Jest Chillin]

I think Toriyama is the problem with Square-Enix and Final Fantasy. They need a new lead. Even Miyamoto is stepping down from his position.

People can say what they will about The Spirits Within but Sakaguchi-era Square put out quality games.

[Conor 419]

Nintendo now need to get multiplat Dark Souls 2 and exclusive Versus XIII.

Japan would be theirs.

[Rebel Leader]

Monolith: HD towns are a piece of cake!

BURN

=p

[Kimawolf]

Well Square simply was a case of being the opposite of Nintendo in announcements. They allowed themselves to fall off by making statements about HD towns and putting out XIII and XIV. There handheld output is great but ya.. on consoles Monolith Soft just drop kicked them out the ring and the ref is at a 7 count.

[Alex]

I've never even played Xenoblade and I'd pick it. FF13 was a horrible game.

Unlike the original, XIII-2 was a very solid, very meaty game, however then you're stuck with that still atrocious scenario and general vibe of things. I've said this a few times, but Square seems to have a hard time lately marrying both a truly compelling game and a palatable aesthetic /setting at the same time.

Look at FFX-2, that's probably the best playing Final Fantasy out there, but giant swaths of people don't want to even remember it because... it's FFX-2 :lol

Square needs to become more worldly, again. This doesn't mean trying to rip off western developers or to adhere to something they're not... just go back to the old classical vibe and make something that looks and reads like XIV and plays and flows like X-2/XII

[UberTag]

Nintendo now need to get multiplat Dark Souls 2 and exclusive Versus XIII. Japan would be theirs.

Japan is already theirs. Don't kid yourself otherwise.
Today's first-party output simply gives them a fighting chance at 2nd in every other market... even with NON-EXISTENT THIRD-PARTY SUPPORT.

[amaron11]

Unlike the original, XIII-2 was a very solid, very meaty game, however then you're stuck with that still atrocious scenario and general vibe of things. I've said this a few times, but Square seems to have a hard time lately marrying both a truly compelling game and a palatable aesthetic /setting at the same time. Look at FFX-2, that's probably the best playing Final Fantasy out there, but giant swaths of people don't want to even remember it because... it's FFX-2 :lol Square needs to become more worldly, again. This doesn't mean trying to rip off western developers or to adhere to something they're not... just go back to the old classical vibe and make something that looks and reads like XIV and plays and flows like X-2/XII

They seem to just want to make games with 15,000 polygon blades of grass.

[Sandfox]

FE has been on the decline since the 90s so I'm kinda scared to see how the next mainline game sells when its released in 2018.

[sublimit]

It will be even more ridiculous if Nintendo shows more of X in E3 while SE shows nothing of Versus.

[Yamauchi]

Square has definitely lost something, in my opinion. I won't sit around arguing over specifics, but to me when I compare a game like FFIX to FFXIII, something seems to have gone wrong. I don't know if it is talent, management, or whatever.

[TheFLYINGManga_Ka]

I still can't wrap my head around the thought that VSXIII is almost seven years in. Come May, it's been 7 years since it was first revealed!

[kswiston]

Japan is already theirs. Don't kid yourself otherwise. Today's first-party output simply gives them a fighting chance at 2nd in every other market... even with NON-EXISTENT THIRD-PARTY SUPPORT.

16k weekly sales a little over a month after launch isn't exactly a number worth bragging about. Even if the PS4 sells less, what good is winning Japan if all home consoles are selling like crap?

Wii was the lowest selling lead console in the history of Japan (at least post-Famicom) by a large margin, and things have the potential to be even worse this gen. Everyone needs to step up their game in Japan going forward.

[SteeloDMZ]

Looks low poly and barren... but OK draw distance for terrain is nice. Radeon 4000 shows that can deliver more than X360/PS3 GPUs.

TryH@rder.

[guek]

MEANWHILE AT SQUARE JAPAN

[phosphor112]

BURN =p

For real. Those open fields are some great towns.

[FlashbladeGAF]

Square has definitely lost something, in my opinion. I won't sit around arguing over specifics, but to me when I compare a game like FFIX to FFXIII, something seems to have gone wrong. I don't know if it is talent, management, or whatever.

everyone that created the classics (with the exception of DQ) has left to form their own smaller studios because Square believed the IPs created themselves.

[FlashbladeGAF]

It will be even more ridiculous if Nintendo shows more of X in E3 while SE shows nothing of Versus.

X only has to announce a release date at E3 to further drive a stake in Square's management of Versus


EDIT: sorry for DP

[fluffydelusions]

It will be even more ridiculous if Nintendo shows more of X in E3 while SE shows nothing of Versus.

I'm still hoping at E3 Nintendo shows there "Here's what retro has been working on" bomb...

[Pyscho_Mantis]

Wow lets not get carried away here....

Monolith Soft , as amazing as some of you want to believe, have released one excellent rpg and have also released some not so good titles.

Square Enix has released a plethora of amazing rpg's throughout it's creation with some being the best in the genre. They are known for their JRPG's.

In no way do I think Monolith is on the level of Square Enix. They need a far larger studio and would need an amazing catalogue of jrpg's to be considered equal.

However I do agree on the notion that this game has pretty much embarrassed not only Square Enix but most third party developers in Japan. They have had 6 years to create one open world JRPG and they have all failed. This generation I would put Monolith's output above Square Enix if we are strictly talking home consoles as I think FF13 and its counterparts are mediocre if not bad.

It could easily change in the future though. I think Versus has far more potential than any of their previous games and even X to be honest.

Everything I have seen about Versus, the music, the gameplay, the characters, and everything I have read about the story, over world and other decisions has cemented it as my most anticipated RPG. Bearing in mind that the last time we saw gameplay was two years ago I am expecting quite an improvement when it is next shown.

So far X does seem like Xenoblade however I still think Versus will be better than Xenoblade. The music, art direction and gameplay (to a lesser extent) in Xeno are all top notch but I did not like the story or characters at all. ( I do place a lot of importance on story in JRPG's). I know we have not seen much of this game but if Xenoblade is anything to go by it does not instill excitement.

I think all this has done is pressure Square Enix in showing us Versus again.

[ari]

Wow lets not get carried away here.... Monolith Soft , as amazing as some of you want to believe, have released one excellent rpg and have also released some not so good titles. Square Enix has released a plethora of amazing rpg's throughout it's creation with some being the best in the genre. They are known for their JRPG's. In no way do I think Monolith is on the level of Square Enix. They need a far larger studio and would need an amazing catalogue of jrpg's to be considered equal. However I do agree on the notion that this game has pretty much embarrassed not only Square Enix but most third party developers in Japan. They have had 6 years to create one open world JRPG and they have all failed. This generation I would put Monolith's output above Square Enix if we are strictly talking home consoles as I think FF13 and its counterparts are mediocre if not bad. It could easily change in the future though. I think Versus has far more potential than any of their previous games and even X to be honest. Everything I have seen about Versus, the music, the gameplay, the characters, and everything I have read about the story, over world and other decisions has cemented it as my most anticipated RPG. Bearing in mind that the last time we saw gameplay was two years ago I am expecting quite an improvement when it is next shown. So far X does seem like Xenoblade however I still think Versus will be better than Xenoblade. The music, art direction and gameplay (to a lesser extent) in Xeno are all top notch but I did not like the story or characters at all. ( I do place a lot of importance on story in JRPG's). I know we have not seen much of this game but if Xenoblade is anything to go by it does not instill excitement. I think all this has done is pressure Square Enix in showing us Versus again.

What everyone is trying to say is that square lost it charm. Which is fact. Xenoblade is better then anything square release this entire generation. As much as you hope that Versus is Square's return to grace. There is nothing to back that claim up other then being super pretty in the graphix department. Square is right there with Sega with being irrelevant.

[luca1980]

Square has definitely lost something, in my opinion. I won't sit around arguing over specifics, but to me when I compare a game like FFIX to FFXIII, something seems to have gone wrong. I don't know if it is talent, management, or whatever.

Se lost Matsuno meaning you can forget something like fft, vagrant story and ff12 first half.
It lost takahashi and his wife meaning you can forget anything resembling xenogears.

There remain nomura so one can expect a kh level game in versus and toryiama meaning you can have all ffx2 like jrpgs like this lighting saga.
Chrono cross teams stuck on online titles I suppose. Itou lost and sakaguchi gone means no ff9 like title coming.
Se is a direct consequence of his men at head of each team.

Monolith is another thing and personally I found in xenoblade many pleasant gameplay ideas. Only thing worse than gears was plot and characters.

[FlashbladeGAF]

Wow lets not get carried away here.... Monolith Soft , as amazing as some of you want to believe, have released one excellent rpg and have also released some not so good titles. Square Enix has released a plethora of amazing rpg's throughout it's creation with some being the best in the genre. They are known for their JRPG's. In no way do I think Monolith is on the level of Square Enix. They need a far larger studio and would need an amazing catalogue of jrpg's to be considered equal. However I do agree on the notion that this game has pretty much embarrassed not only Square Enix but most third party developers in Japan. They have had 6 years to create one open world JRPG and they have all failed. This generation I would put Monolith's output above Square Enix if we are strictly talking home consoles as I think FF13 and its counterparts are mediocre if not bad. It could easily change in the future though. I think Versus has far more potential than any of their previous games and even X to be honest. Everything I have seen about Versus, the music, the gameplay, the characters, and everything I have read about the story, over world and other decisions has cemented it as my most anticipated RPG. Bearing in mind that the last time we saw gameplay was two years ago I am expecting quite an improvement when it is next shown. So far X does seem like Xenoblade however I still think Versus will be better than Xenoblade. The music, art direction and gameplay (to a lesser extent) in Xeno are all top notch but I did not like the story or characters at all. ( I do place a lot of importance on story in JRPG's). I know we have not seen much of this game but if Xenoblade is anything to go by it does not instill excitement. I think all this has done is pressure Square Enix in showing us Versus again.

ALSO the people who developed some of those amazing Square RPGS are currently members of Monolift Soft

[Shinta]

ALSO the people who developed some of those amazing Square RPGS are currently members of Monolift Soft

What did they make at Squaresoft besides Xenogears? I was honestly never a huge fan of Xenogears. It's good, but really overrated.

[Jest Chillin]

What did they make at Squaresoft besides Xenogears? I was honestly never a huge fan of Xenogears. It's good, but really overrated.

FF1-9
Secret of Mana 1-3
Secret of Evermore
FF Tactics
Chrono Trigger
Chrono Cross

and I'm sure more. That's just what I can think of off the top of my head.

[ari]

FF1-9 Secret of Mana 1-3 Secret of Evermore FF Tactics Chrono Trigger Chrono Cross and I'm sure more. That's just what I can think of off the top of my head.

This generation wasn't so kind to Square. FF12 was their last game to me. :(

Their handheld front is great though.

[razgriz417]

if the new monolith game comes out before and is an amazing rpg, it'll probably be enough for me to cancel my 5 year old preorder of versus XIII and buy a wii u. At this point I have no faith that versus XIII will ever see the light of day, let alone meet expectations

[Shinta]

FF1-9 Secret of Mana 1-3 Secret of Evermore FF Tactics Chrono Trigger Chrono Cross and I'm sure more. That's just what I can think of off the top of my head.

In what capacity are you claiming they're responsible for these games? Certainly not director or anyone super high up.

[metalslimer]

The fact that Monolith is producing X as their first HD game with probably a much smaller budget than any FF13 game should show how incompetent Square is. Although it didn't take X for me to realize how incompetent Square is.

[Jest Chillin]

In what capacity are you claiming they're responsible for these games? Certainly not director or anyone super high up.

Actually I didn't realize you specifically meant those that were at Monolift Soft. I thought you were speaking about Square's missing staff in general.

[UberTag]

Their handheld front is great though.

Unless you're into nonsensical Kingdom Hearts sequels, I challenge this statement.
I believe that's a myth.
Tactics Ogre: LUCT was their last great game and I credit Quest and Matsuno for that... certainly not any of Square Enix's internal teams.

Apart from that we've gotten some competent Dragon Quest ports & new releases. If you're not into DQ or KH, what has there been that rates as "great"?

Lots of people who worked on FF1-9 are still there. Sakaguchi only directed a handful of them and was just producer on the rest. Kitase, Ito, still there. Off the top of my head.

Isn't Ito a janitor now?

[Shinta]

Actually I didn't realize you specifically meant those that were at Monolift Soft. I thought you were speaking about Square's missing staff in general.

Lots of people who worked on FF1-9 are still there. Sakaguchi only directed a handful of them and was just producer on the rest. Kitase, Ito, still there. Off the top of my head.

Isn't Ito a janitor now?

Yes, the guy who directed FFVI, FFIX, and finished directing FFXII is now a janitor. You figured it all out.

[MisterHero]

They can make a bunch of fancy FMVs and million-polygon character models with outfits from famous Japanese fashion designers, but it still won't play as good as Xenoblade/X.

Hell, just by ignoring FMVs Xenoblade acknowledged the player customization in cutscenes.

[HK-47]

People can say what they will about The Spirits Within but Sakaguchi-era Square put out quality games.

I say that movie nearly tanked the company.

[Jest Chillin]

Lots of people who worked on FF1-9 are still there. Sakaguchi only directed a handful of them and was just producer on the rest. Kitase, Ito, still there. Off the top of my head.

What roles did those that had a hand in those games that are still there play? Without having an intricate knowledge of Game Development I can't see roles lower than Producer, Director, and Script Writer would have that large of an influence on the final product overall.

Also, Sakaguchi also held positions spanning from Director of Planning and Development on up to Executive VP during his time there, so his influence on games would have been larger than just the roles he's credited in on each game.

I say that movie nearly tanked the company.

I don't recall the specifics but I do remember reading elsewhere here on Gaf that that perception isn't exactly accurate.

[fates]

Square Enix has released a plethora of amazing rpg's throughout it's creation with some being the best in the genre. They are known for their JRPG's. In no way do I think Monolith is on the level of Square Enix. They need a far larger studio and would need an amazing catalogue of jrpg's to be considered equal.

In that context I agree with you. I don't hate Square Enix, to be sure. I can't. Up until this gen they put out a lot of games I really liked. And if they'd release DQ7 3DS, I could even say that for this gen too. However, I am immensely frustrated with them now.

But they've lost it. Like I said before, 2010 was a bad year for them, almost catastrophic in what it did to FF's brand image. But instead of move on, they are still stuck in 2010 while every other developer is moving on.

Compounding this problem is their localization problems. Sure their "AAA" HD titles (ie. Lightning games, as it stands) come out globally virtually at the same time. But they've passed on two Dragon Quest games on the 3DS, haven't made any statements about Bravely Default, and DQ7 is also up in the air. The good things Square Enix is known for exists in these games they seem to have no interest in localizing.

[UberTag]

Yes, the guy who directed FFVI, FFIX, and finished directing FFXII is now a janitor. You figured it all out.

For a guy so intrumental in realizing my three favorite Final Fantasy titles, I figured there must be some reason he hasn't done anything since... especially in the wake of such failure by everyone else.

So he's either retired or a janitor. I hope he's retired and sleeping on a bed of yen. He deserves it.

[IdreamofHIME]

I ran into a Square fan the other day, then backed up and ran over him again.

[UberTag]

I ran into a Square fan the other day, then backed up and ran over him again.

If you looked like your avatar, I'd say that's one lucky Square fan.

[Shinta]

What roles did those that had a hand in those games that are still there play? Without having an intricate knowledge of Game Development I can't see roles lower than Producer, Director, and Script Writer would have that large of an influence on the final product overall. Also, Sakaguchi also held positions spanning from Director of Planning and Development on up to Executive VP during his time there, so his influence on games would have been larger than just the roles he's credited in on each game.

Ito is still there and he's basically the designer of the battle systems for the whole series, with a few exceptions. He's directed 3 FF games. Kitase directed VII and he's still there. Nomura was lead character artist on a lot of it and he's still there. Amano was never there but still does contract work. Toriyama has been working on the series since FFVII. The list goes on and on.

It's too many to list. Lots of people are still there. If you want to get the highlights, you can skim this pdf.

For a guy so intrumental in realizing my three favorite Final Fantasy titles, I figured there must be some reason he hasn't done anything since... especially in the wake of such failure by everyone else. So he's either retired or a janitor. I hope he's retired and sleeping on a bed of yen. He deserves it.

Or he could be working on something in secret, like he always has before a game is announced? He's probably working on FFXV, and has been since FFXII in some capacity. We don't know yet. But that's how they always do it. They switch teams.

Certainly more plausible than janitor. People just say the worst case scenario every time for no reason, even if it defies all logic.

[Mondriaan]

X only has to announce a release date at E3 to further drive a stake in Square's management of Versus

I think Monolith is probably better managed than Square, but my prediction is that we aren't going to get a release date for X this year. We'll find out next year when they think it'll be done.

[computers putin']

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6GxUMMGyZcM In case you haven't seen it.

this...this will be the game that causes me to get a Wii-U, those flying mechs looked so awesome.

[Vandiger]

Not a fan of MMORPGs in general, so nope unless you play stuff like FF14.

[volpone]

Not gonna lie here. I've been on the Versus XIII hype for years and this game has definitely taken a lot of the wind out of those sales. S-E really have no more excuses. This trailer essentially showed a vertical slice from a game that's been in development for what - 2 years perhaps?

S-E really needs to invest in the senior figures that can actually straddle a large development team, the ones they have that aren't complete jokes. Compare this with Lightning Returns. It's almost not fair. Wada admits they have damaged the Final Fantasy brand and then circumvents this appraisal by having Toriyama pump out haphazard sequels. Versus XIII could have been done by now if they didn't bother with that insanity. Let's see how the law of diminishing returns works upon the release of Lightning - er... Returns.

[Pyscho_Mantis]

Japan is already theirs. Don't kid yourself otherwise. Today's first-party output simply gives them a fighting chance at 2nd in every other market... even with NON-EXISTENT THIRD-PARTY SUPPORT.

Lol lets not be delusional. People said this about the Wii, and before the Wii U launched. The thing that guaranteed PS to acquire a stable audience is the lack of third party support on nintendo platforms and the exclusives PS had. Nintendo's firsty party is by far the strongest in Japan though it is strong enough to outweigh the loss of many third party titles.

Also we must note release dates were not given so this is not going to suddenly increase Wii U sales in Japan until a big game releases.

ALSO the people who developed some of those amazing Square RPGS are currently members of Monolift Soft

What roles did these people have and for what games. This is honestly the first time I am hearing this. I am sure it cannot be anyone major as it would have been pretty big news no. I also think that just because you acquire some devs that have worked on such iconic games it will not make your game iconic. Basically what I am trying to say is that I feel that making a game is a team effort and all those amazing jrpgs that SQ had made was due to their entire team not just a few people and so the inverse applies were a few people will not have a major difference on your game.

I do wanna say I do regard Monolith Soft as a quality developer.

Compounding this problem is their localization problems. Sure their "AAA" HD titles (ie. Lightning games, as it stands) come out globally virtually at the same time. But they've passed on two Dragon Quest games on the 3DS, haven't made any statements about Bravely Default, and DQ7 is also up in the air. The good things Square Enix is known for exists in these games they seem to have no interest in localizing.

Yeah their handheld output has been good but I think Square knows that JRPG's are just not as popular as they used to be in the west as it is partly their fault. Each genre in gaming usually has a massively popular franchise whose popularity helps other new franchises in that genre. For instance COD has pushed the FPS genre and many fps games are benefiting, or GT has pushed simulation racing etc.

Final Fantasy was that franchise for the JRPG's. Once it had lost its popularity after FF13 I feel the JRPG genre has declined. Thats why I think so highly of FFVersus as it has potential to bring the JRPG genre back into the eyes of many gamers.

Square is simply cautious of the sales these games will acquire in the West but it seems they are oblivious in how these games will help increase the JRPG genre.

[TWILT]

Yeah, "X" looks awesome. Looks more impressive than Versus for me.

MEANWHILE AT SQUARE JAPAN

Goddamn.

[Famassu]

What everyone is trying to say is that square lost it charm. Which is fact. Xenoblade is better then anything square release this entire generation.

Lol, no it's not.

Square is right there with Sega with being irrelevant.

Square Enix is way more relevant than Monolith has ever or will ever be, even during its bad years.

[Famassu]

The good things Square Enix is known for exists in these games they seem to have no interest in localizing.

Because people have shown they have no interest in buying them. They localized almost each & every one of their games two years ago, still, but that did them no good and even their bigger franchises are struggling over here. If they see very little to no profit in it, it's just not worth it bringing games like Dragon Quest Monsters & Bravely Default. Small localization companies like XSeed can bring niche games over and hang in there with low sales, Square Enix is a massive publisher and for them releasing games that have a high chance of causing losses and even in the best case scenario would probably be barely profitable... they just aren't worth it for for them, after so many failures (no matter if the games have been some of the best in their genre).

[Error]

I give my vote to X. Versus will obviously have the better hair, though, and that's all that matters.

between this and how bad LR looks and run, I think Crystal Tools is starting to show its age.

X definitely shits all over Vs when it comes to visuals at this point. Not only does the scale looks a lot bigger but the environment art looks much better too.

[Metal Gear?!]

I suspect that Versus XIII (+Last Guardian) has been bumped up to the next gen system(s), so you might have to eat your words @ E3.

So we wait another seven years for them?

[UberTag]

Or he could be working on something in secret, like he always has before a game is announced? He's probably working on FFXV, and has been since FFXII in some capacity. We don't know yet. But that's how they always do it. They switch teams. Certainly more plausible than janitor. People just say the worst case scenario every time for no reason, even if it defies all logic.

Perhaps he is helming FFXV AND a janitor. Why can Ito not be both things?