Karsticles
Member
Explain how you took this picture but didn't hit the button to save us all, Max!
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Square Enix reports 13.7b yen loss, 99.7% yoy decrease in games income
- Thread starter Pooya
- Start date
Canis lupus
Member
Thats what happens when you refuse to bring out what everyone asks for: the next Kingdom Hearts, FFvsXIII and localization of Type-0.
I wonder if people seriously think that a FF7 remake would save the company. It would more than likely kill it than save it.
UberTag
Member
I'm expecting another CGI Movie which unveils Versus as FFXV - exclusive to PlayStation 4 - "please be excited" - and then a whole lot of nothing for 3 years while they dick around on more CGI movie sequences using their new Luminous engine.
zerokoolpsx
Member
Wada already jumped ship. No idea about the first mate.
Mihael Mello Keehl
Banned
If it kills it then they had a good ass run
toastyToast
Member
Don't worry. Lightning Returns will pick up the slack
Please be excited guys
Please be excited guys
If FF13 can do good numbers surely FF7 can do much better.
Not if they make it for the 3DS
What people ask for isn't necessarily what will work. After the 16 bits era fans were asking for a N64 FF and got a PS1 FF instead, which had triggered many hateful reactions on announcement, yet it's their best selling game ever. True success is reached by keeping ahead of the fans, not catering to their demands.
The FF13 sequels are very cheap to make, using discarded bits of FF13 development, thus even relatively small numbers are good numbers (which is the reason they're sticking to it in the first place). A new FF7 wouldn't be cheap since there's nothing you can directly reuse from the old assets.
Karsticles
Member
I didn't say the company would be saved, I said we would be saved, meaning the fans. As in, saved from them making so many bad games.
soxinthebox
Member
Why even bother at that stage.
toastyToast
Member
Thing with FF7 remake is that a lot of the people who want it are grown ass men
How many grown ass men of the boys who bought FF7 in the millions would buy a sequel? Think on that
I wouldn't
How many grown ass men of the boys who bought FF7 in the millions would buy a sequel? Think on that
I wouldn't
I have no idea why people were hopeful for freaking Eidos of all publishers to turn things around for SE's strugglings.
I mean we're talking about a publisher that was on the verge of THQisation before being bought wholesale.
And considering it was being bought, it was going to be a rough integration to be sure (as such is usually the case when a company buy another).
None of the projects Eidos was doing were enough to put the world on fire in the same way SE's usual property could.
So again why was it seen with such glasses I have absolutely no idea.
That can work if you don't treat your customers with spite though.
At the time they still wanted to give people a quality product that they could enjoy.
Now they're considering their fans as ATM that won't care about the quality of the shit they produce.
It's ironic, but them not putting out Type-0 is one of the smarter decisions they've made. The game missed it's window for western viability and (as you can see) the company is already bleeding as it is.
IrishNinja
Member
in my mind, Square is in that tier with Nintendo, in that they have so many ways they could be profitable again from their back catalog alone, nevermind sorting out modernizing a franchise or launching a new IP...so it's always confusing to see them struggle.
like, the FF brand took hits, no doubt. but a XV/Versus within the first year of the PS4 could be like FF X on PS2 and move crazy units, pushing right past the mess that was XIII. it's the kind've thing that doesn't happen, and i have no idea why.
like not putting Bushido Blade on the Wii. i just don't get it.
like, the FF brand took hits, no doubt. but a XV/Versus within the first year of the PS4 could be like FF X on PS2 and move crazy units, pushing right past the mess that was XIII. it's the kind've thing that doesn't happen, and i have no idea why.
like not putting Bushido Blade on the Wii. i just don't get it.
I was more talking about FF13 rather than the sequels.
I know story-boarding is not the right phrase and relates to film scenes but FF7 is basically 'storeboarded' for Square Enix to make. A sizable portion of the pre-production is done already. It shouldn't be any more expensive than FF13 is to make.
Canis lupus
Member
True that, but they havent made such a decision this gen, they have been bleeding money and the company has never been this disfavored by fans in a long time.
Its sad because Type-0 is the last decent FF game they made.
Entirely assumptions on your part. It's as simplistic to think they are only out for your money as to think they weren't earlier. There's always a bit of both. Even if they were magical artisans only wanting to elicit joy they'd need to gobble up your money to do it. One of the big reasons for devs switching to Sony is that making games for their console was immensely cheaper because of the switch to CDs and better licensing deals, there's no reason to think Square was any different.
Fans are always complaining, it's hard to tell if they're complaining more now or then. Back with FF7 there were tons of people complaining about the move to 3D or sci fi for example. Well, the fanbase they got with FF7 just was a new one, so alienating the old one wasn't a problem. Same here. If you're a FF7 fan you either played it back then which means you're technically too old to be their core audience anymore, or you emulated/VC'd it more recently and then it means they don't need a HD remake since you're prefectly able to play the PS1 version and enjoy it.
Yes and no.
No because storyboards from back then don't fill the needs of storyboards from now. Game design and technology have evolved a lot. Simple example, take dialogues. Back then you'd just use the overhead view (too expensive to render new views for closeups, and too basic field character models) and now you couldn't imagine a game without closeups. No using the same ten cartoony field movements and shaking heads for those, you have to animate and lipsync everything. No reusing the same few NPCs on each screen, now the faces aren't abstract you need to differentiate them. even worse, because your old dialogue was text you had tons of it, more than in modern games. Do you voice it all at a huge cost that'll make you game even more of a risky bet, or do you rework the story to bring it back to modern game proportions at the risk of incurring the wrath of your fans again?
Yes because well handled it shouldn't be any more expensive than FF13. But FF13 was a disaster of development management and a huge money sink, so that's not saying much.
Auto_aim1
MeisaMcCaffrey
The drastic drop in games income is worrisome but I have no idea why they were projecting such high sales for Tomb Raider, Sleeping Dogs and Absolution. Its really weird. Inefficient management has dragged them down this entire generation and I'm kind of glad Wada left. Will they bounce back next gen? Maybe. I think they're going to concentrate on the smartphone and tablet market more now since they've already said that they want to set up a new revenue base. One thing is for sure though, their Japanese side has been a complete failure this generation.
Care to explain why ? They have most of the assets ready: the story, the characters, the battle system and the music ( could be tweaked/ updated though) plus it's by far the most popular entry in the series. if properly marketed it would sell loads, this simply can't go wrong imo and it baffles my mind how they haven't done it yet. If FFXIII and its unwanted sequels haven't killed Square, FF7 remake won't.
Glass Rebel
Member
Eidos had some strong brands (still have) and made some good to great games. The idea was that with the financial backing of SE they could finally leverage that talent and Just Cause 2 and Deus Ex convinced most people that it would be a successful endeavour. Sadly they fell off a cliff after that.
It obviously won't set the West on fire on the PSP but a HD remaster for PS3/Vita or even a 3DS port would surely be profitable.
it's been 16 years since final fantasy vii. by the time it comes out, you'll have had people whose first game in the series probably would have been xii or xiii. it's like expecting a remake of final fantasy iv or vi to sell really well be cause you liked it when you were a kid.
Crimsonlink
Member
What the hell are they doing?
How can you have a near 100% yoy decrease with the tons of games they came out with?
Each selling around the million region if not more or at least half that....
Did the Agni engine research cost 1 trillion yen or something? What did Square come out with last year for there to be such a decrease over 1 year?
How can you have a near 100% yoy decrease with the tons of games they came out with?
Each selling around the million region if not more or at least half that....
Did the Agni engine research cost 1 trillion yen or something? What did Square come out with last year for there to be such a decrease over 1 year?
BrokenEchelon
Banned
I just want Eidos Montreal to find a good home after this rotting corpse of a company finally folds.
Man Square has really fallen off. Botched the shit out of Kingdom Hearts and totaled the hell out of the Final Fantasy brand. I like Eidos but I don't think their games sell well enough to justify the money being spent.
Also pointless to remake FF7, it really was a game of it's time. Now FF6 is the one they should remake.
I think they could maybe turn around the whole FF14 situation. Really depends on how the console ports turn out.
Also pointless to remake FF7, it really was a game of it's time. Now FF6 is the one they should remake.
I think they could maybe turn around the whole FF14 situation. Really depends on how the console ports turn out.
ZombiePlatypus
Member
There just haven't been enough numbered, mainline entry MMO's and direct XIII sequels. Surely once they release even more of those things, everything will be fine again.
That's not what I'm saying, I'm saying quality declined and the market reacted accordingly, that's all.
They always wanted our money to begin with, that's why they're a business and not a charity.
What did they make that was actually better than what SE had before them?
I'm saying people expected Eidos to produce games on par with the Rockstars of the world out there.
That clearly was never happening.
And again they were a sinking ship for a reason.
I for one am shocked that to hear of the financial implosion brought on by piss poor decisions of the company who thought it was a good idea to turn their single biggest IP into an MMO and then released it only on Nintendo consoles.
Seriously, imagine how much money they'd have made this year if DQX had been an actual DQ title... hell, or even if they'd just had the common sense to release it on everything they could, rather the worst options going for an online RPG.
Seriously, imagine how much money they'd have made this year if DQX had been an actual DQ title... hell, or even if they'd just had the common sense to release it on everything they could, rather the worst options going for an online RPG.
If they did it right, it would save the company. But every year that Schrodinger's Cait leans more and more towards dead.
If they did it right, with perfect voice acting, super-hot Tifa and Aerith, tweaked battle system to work out the kinks, and beautifully-re-rendered Midgar...it'd kill.
But that's basically a full-game worth of resources. They just don't have it, unless they changed the, say, Versus team to that.
If they did it and sold it as the forerunner for PS4, it would work.
But they'll probably botch it. Well, at least they would've with Wada at the helm.
BrokenEchelon
Banned
LoZ: OoT 3D sold like 3+ million units. As has already been mentioned, I'm sure a 3DS "remake" (read: port) of VII would make them easy money.
That, and the imbeciles could put the FF games on Steam, along with the rest of their highly lauded games that they used to make. It should provide for some relatively pain-free revenue.
really depends on the system. at this point, it would pretty much have to be for ps4. the ffvii fanbase isn't on nintendo systems. do they make it look like agni's philosophy and have it play like ffvii? with late-90s rpg level design? then you have to think about how well that might be received in the mid 10s. maybe it would be better to open up the world a little bit more, and then you get into the realm of why not just make a brand new game.
Remakes are almost always a bad idea:
1) A segment that played the original and did not like it. This segment will probably not buy the remake.
2) A segment that played the original, liked it, but refuses to play the remake due to certain differences between the original and the remake (aka MGS:TS on GC).
3)A segment that played the original and would buy the remake. This is your source of profit.
Group 3 has to be so large to justify an expensive remake. If the remake was not well done, even group 3 would not buy it and basically join group 2; as you can see, it is pretty risky. That is why many game companies just release "remasters" or "HD" editions, for they are much cheaper to make for the intended target market.
Canis lupus
Member
This spread out releaselist would be ideal for SE(entirely about high profile rpgs, eidos and mobiles not included)
2013
FFXIV A Realm Reborn
KH1.5
FFX/X2 HD
2014
FFvsXIII renamed whatever
KH2.5 (KH2, BBs, recoded movie)
2015
FF15
KH collection etc
2016
KH3
2017-18 (20th anniversary)
FF7 Remake
2013
FFXIV A Realm Reborn
KH1.5
FFX/X2 HD
2014
FFvsXIII renamed whatever
KH2.5 (KH2, BBs, recoded movie)
2015
FF15
KH collection etc
2016
KH3
2017-18 (20th anniversary)
FF7 Remake
devonraynor
Member
the fact that sooo many people are screaming for a FF7 remake should make SE wonder if its the right thing to do, to give us more FF13 games....
JohnnySasaki86
Member
I'm confused. It says they have a net sales increase of 15.7%. So they actually sold more games this year than last?
With an insane budget to make it look good and that it doesn't have any user base right now? And who cares if the FFVII fan base isn't on the 3DS? If SE releases it on the 3DS I can bet ya that people would go out and buy a 3DS for the game.
Exentryk
Member
I like how you don't have LR in that list. Approved.
Glass Rebel
Member
A talented team with the right budget and supervision can create a fantastic project. Look at Next Level Games who have made about 50% shovelware but have only created good to great games under Nintendo. SE probably assumed that they could turn around Eidos. I mean, with Eidos came several well-received franchises and Crystal Dynamics and IO Interactive, both of which made decent to great games hampered by minor issues. They clearly saw something in them.
You're also greatly exaggerating the expectations people had for them. Eidos was acquired to get a foothold in Western development and diversify their portfolio. The problem was that they decided somewhere down the line that they could just rely on Eidos for the Western market and shifted a big portion of their gaming budget from their Japanese side to Square-Enix Europe, according to Kagari.
I don't think buying Eidos was a bad decision per se, the problem was the resulting mismanagement.
It's gonna be FFXV.
electroplankton
Banned
They should get rid of Dragon Quest?
Perfect
Huh CD's Tomb Raider was not exactly a fantastic property hold back by minor issues like most what Eidos produced.
SE isn't known either to be that fantasitc at outsourcing so I don't why you'd expect them to pull a Nintendo either.
Especially when you look at how involved Nintendo is compared to their peers.
SE couldn't have been expected to have the same results at all.
Well yeah that was what they said they were doing which lead me to question why the hell that was a good idea to put good money to a company that wasn't good with money was a good idea....
And look up the threads here and you'll see numerous people caring for SE only because of Eidos and claiming that without Eidos they would be in a bad place which is funny because they're more of a liability.
It was mismanaged before so why letting them to their own device was a good idea I have no idea.
It really depends on which device they feel would make them the most money since both the PS3 and 3DS have a decent sized RPG fanbase.