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Bundy
Banned
(09-05-2013, 08:49 PM)

Originally Posted by PsychoSoldier

I don't think Adam is a shill, but given the way in which he constantly sought before and during E3 to downplay the differences (price, power, and otherwise) between the consoles, and along with a lot of people invoked the "Sony has something similar" canard pre-show I take his opinions on these matters with enormous grains of salt.

Whatever Albert's title may be, it's clear he's doing PR work, likely at the behest of his bosses so I'm not sure that the formality of his title matters when he's clearly acting in this capacity in this interview.

Of course he is. It's his job!
MS sent him to do so. And he does it a bit better than a lot of his friends at MS.
But his PR/Shill talk is there. Downplaying the performance gap between the PS4 and the XBone, because he (and MS) knows, that a lot of gamers around the world know about the stronger PS4 hardware. etc.etc.
For example:

I don't believe the difference between these systems will be as significant as comparing individual components. How is it that a 400 HP Porsche can be faster than a 700 HP Corvette?"

MoneyHats
Banned
(09-05-2013, 08:50 PM)

Originally Posted by Chobel

He meant graphics. Did you see Infamous:Second Son?

I have seen Infamous... it looks next gen, but so does Ryse visually, and to some people even more so than Infamous which looks good, but at no point does anyone feel like Infamous makes Ryse look a league apart, both are serious eye candy.

If you don't agree then you either need to have your eyes checked or take those rose colored glasses off :p
Freshmaker
I am Korean.
(09-05-2013, 08:51 PM)
Freshmaker's Avatar

Originally Posted by ArkkAngel007

This didn't take long at all.

Are people really this insecure over a couple of competing products?

I'm still wondering why Sessler assumed that XBLG was free.
Hockeymac18
Member
(09-05-2013, 08:51 PM)
Hockeymac18's Avatar

Originally Posted by SenjutsuSage

I don't think so. Game seems like it could be end up a lot better than some think.

Yeah, I've been hearing that. And it does look better in videos as of late than it did in the beginning. It seems like its biggest weak point (and what people are posting gifs of) is its multiplayer...that doesn't look as hot. At least, to me. I've heard that the MP was developed by a different developer? Seems odd, and don't how true that is, though...

But the single player looks really impressive. I've been considering picking it up. I want to try it out on a kiosk first, though.
NoirVisage
Banned
(09-05-2013, 08:51 PM)

Originally Posted by Racer1977

I had to smile watching this (admittedly very entertaining) video from Sessler, given the contents of this thread. Take a look from the 35 minute mark regarding the launch of the Xbox One.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Htr9hyFJVQg

In summary, MS are behind the curve in terms of prep for the next gen launch BUT.......Titanfalls the "standout" next gen game, with MS having it locked down as an exclusive. Meanwhile, Sony's deals with Destiny, Ubisoft etc. should be taken with a pinch of salt, as MS will be moving in....... I really don't get this theory from US journalists the PS4 and One are going to be neck and neck, sales wise, for the next year or so. I can only assume they are talking about the US, as the situation is much more lopsided in PS4's favour, once Europe and Asia are taken into consideration.

There was me thinking Titanfall epitomises the timed exclusive, I would have thought that was clear to see for an industry veteran. Not to mentione, with the likes of Infamous SS on the horizon, there's some particularly strong competition for the title of "next gen standout".

Those are his mantra's at this point and its baffling people in the industry don't point it out to him.

MS: good moves, compelling features
Sony: pinch of salt, let's wait and see
TRios Zen
Member
(09-05-2013, 08:52 PM)
TRios Zen's Avatar

Originally Posted by Brimstone

Physical media is convenient. Physical media isn't broken...there is no need to fix it.


Johnny along with some other friends is going Billys house.

Physical Media World
Johhny recently purchased Space Barbarian Owl Shooter 5000. He'll take that game along with some others to Billys house to have available to play with rest of the gang. I'll only take a few minutes to install to his hard drive.

Digital Download World.
Johnny could unplug his console and bring it over Billys but that would mean Johhny's little brother can't play the console at all.

Your Digital Download World example is crazy, though maybe my sarcasm meter is broken.

Digital Download World would be:
Johnny re-downloads game on Billy's console and plays at will. Meanwhile Johnny's little bro can't play the game because it is in play elsewhere.
eastmen
Banned
(09-05-2013, 08:56 PM)

Originally Posted by Brimstone

Physical media is convenient. Physical media isn't broken...there is no need to fix it.


Johnny along with some other friends is going Billys house.

Physical Media World
Johhny recently purchased Space Barbarian Owl Shooter 5000. He'll take that game along with some others to Billys house to have available to play with rest of the gang. I'll only take a few minutes to install to his hard drive.

Digital Download World.
Johnny could unplug his console and bring it over Billys but that would mean Johhny's little brother can't play the console at all.

or you know , just put it on a reusable flash drive , bring it over to Billy's and log in with Johnny's account letting them all play it , while johnny's little brother plays another game on his account at his house.


Shipping pieces plastic around the world is broken. Its an expensive system.

Optical discs are the slowest part of the console chain . They have slow transfers and seek times. Hardrives are comparatively faster and seek times are much faster on hardrive vs disc drive. Also SSDs are becoming cheaper and cheaper and through this generation they will become as cheap as hardrives. Those are many times faster than optical media .

But yea sure physical media isn't broken.
Albert Penello
MS Director of Product Planning
"Now More Direct than ever!"
(09-05-2013, 08:58 PM)
Albert Penello's Avatar
True story about this interview:

I made poor Adam wait for me for like 20 min. I had totally underestimated the fact it was going to take me NEARLY AN HOUR to find parking at PAX. So I was totally frustrated, had been in a car in traffic for over 90 minutes, and was RUSHING into the convention center. I had just walked in, and had been keeping him and his crew waiting. So I sat down, and we rolled Ė no prep or anything. Iím surprised I didnít come across as a complete buffoon given how cold I came into this.

I also found out this was going to be on-camera, which Iím not a big fan of, because, wellÖ look at me. I have a face for Radio.

Anyway I appreciate the kind comments.

Iím not going to get into this PR thing again. There are clearly people who understand, and people who donít. Iíve been a GAF member for a while, and was a reader long before that. Iíve been in gaming my entire professional career, and a player since videogames EXISTED. I come on GAF because I want to. I donít get paid to post here or any other silly nonsense. Occasionally, the PR team will roll me out to do official interviews, which Iím not really a huge fan of doing.

Regarding the Kinect video I was talking about. There are several, but the one I like best is this. Also Ė this is now several months old. Latency is even better now.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hi5kMNfgDS4

Disc install Ė Turns out, at this point the speed and throughput of the consoles exceeds the transfer speeds of the disc. I donít have the exact numbers, but the reason BOTH CONSOLES do mandatory installs is because youíd be actually giving up a ton of potential performance by bottlenecking the systems at the read speeds of the disc. Even on 360 games like GTAV are mandatory HDD installs Ė at this point reading from disc is just too slow. On top of which, the instant game switching feature goes awayÖ

Performance: Iím not dismissing raw performance. Iím stating Ė as I have stated from the beginning Ė that the performance delta between the two platforms is not as great as the raw numbers lead the average consumer to believe. There are things about our system architecture not fully understood, and there are things about theirs as well, that bring the two systems into balance.

People DO understand that Microsoft has some of the smartest graphics programmers IN THE WORLD. We CREATED DirectX, the standard APIís that everyone programs against. So while people laude Sony for their HW skills, do you really think we donít know how to build a system optimized for maximizing graphics for programmers? Seriously? There is no way weíre giving up a 30%+ advantage to Sony. And ANYONE who has seen both systems running could say there are great looking games on both systems. If there was really huge performance difference Ė it would be obvious.

I get a ton of hate for saying this Ė but itís been the same EVERY generation. Sony claims more power, they did it with Cell, they did it with Emotion Engine, and they are doing it again. And, in the end, games on our system looked the same or better.

Iím not saying they havenít built a good system Ė Iím merely saying that anyone who wants to die on their sword over this 30%+ power advantage are going to be fighting an uphill battle over the next 10 yearsÖ
Speedy Blue Dude
Banned
(09-05-2013, 09:04 PM)

Originally Posted by Albert Penello


Performance: Iím not dismissing raw performance. Iím stating Ė as I have stated from the beginning Ė that the performance delta between the two platforms is not as great as the raw numbers lead the average consumer to believe. There are things about our system architecture not fully understood, and there are things about theirs as well, that bring the two systems into balance.

People DO understand that Microsoft has some of the smartest graphics programmers IN THE WORLD. We CREATED DirectX, the standard APIís that everyone programs against. So while people laude Sony for their HW skills, do you really think we donít know how to build a system optimized for maximizing graphics for programmers? Seriously? There is no way weíre giving up a 30%+ advantage to Sony. And ANYONE who has seen both systems running could say there are great looking games on both systems. If there was really huge performance difference Ė it would be obvious.

I get a ton of hate for saying this Ė but itís been the same EVERY generation. Sony claims more power, they did it with Cell, they did it with Emotion Engine, and they are doing it again. And, in the end, games on our system looked the same or better.

Iím not saying they havenít built a good system Ė Iím merely saying that anyone who wants to die on their sword over this 30%+ power advantage are going to be fighting an uphill battle over the next 10 yearsÖ

Thanks for responding Albert. Just curious, you say 30%... Most GAF users say 40%... Are you hinting at maybe an upclock/secret sauce we aren't aware of? ;D

Either way, sounds good to hear you guys aren't just willing to give Sony the power advantage so easily.
The_Monk
Member
(09-05-2013, 09:04 PM)
The_Monk's Avatar

Originally Posted by Albert Penello

.

Thank you for your words kind sir.

I posted a couples of pages ago, with this:

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost...&postcount=441

I wanted to avoid sending you a PM since I didn't wanted to bother you, but if it is alright with you please reply back via PM. Thank you very much for your time.
timlot
Member
(09-05-2013, 09:05 PM)

Originally Posted by Albert Penello

True story about this interview:

Disc install – Turns out, at this point the speed and throughput of the consoles exceeds the transfer speeds of the disc. I don’t have the exact numbers, but the reason BOTH CONSOLES do mandatory installs is because you’d be actually giving up a ton of potential performance by bottlenecking the systems at the read speeds of the disc. Even on 360 games like GTAV are mandatory HDD installs – at this point reading from disc is just too slow. On top of which, the instant game switching feature goes away…

Performance: I’m not dismissing raw performance. I’m stating – as I have stated from the beginning – that the performance delta between the two platforms is not as great as the raw numbers lead the average consumer to believe. There are things about our system architecture not fully understood, and there are things about theirs as well, that bring the two systems into balance.

People DO understand that Microsoft has some of the smartest graphics programmers IN THE WORLD. We CREATED DirectX, the standard API’s that everyone programs against. So while people laude Sony for their HW skills, do you really think we don’t know how to build a system optimized for maximizing graphics for programmers? Seriously? There is no way we’re giving up a 30%+ advantage to Sony. And ANYONE who has seen both systems running could say there are great looking games on both systems. If there was really huge performance difference – it would be obvious.

I get a ton of hate for saying this – but it’s been the same EVERY generation. Sony claims more power, they did it with Cell, they did it with Emotion Engine, and they are doing it again. And, in the end, games on our system looked the same or better.

I’m not saying they haven’t built a good system – I’m merely saying that anyone who wants to die on their sword over this 30%+ power advantage are going to be fighting an uphill battle over the next 10 years…

Let the church say Amen. Mic drop.
Brimstone
my reputation is Shadowruined
(09-05-2013, 09:05 PM)

Originally Posted by TRios Zen

Your Digital Download World example is crazy, though maybe my sarcasm meter is broken.

Digital Download World would be:
Johnny re-downloads game on Billy's console and plays at will. Meanwhile Johnny's little bro can't play the game because it is in play elsewhere.

Yeah and how long will it take to download Space Owl Barbarian 5000 and the other handful of game discs.


Microsoft and EA want to napalm the forest of physical media.
matics
Member
(09-05-2013, 09:05 PM)
matics's Avatar
I thought it was a damn good interview, but hey.. What do I know.

Edit:
For the above post: you can play the game after a small initial download.
BlackFlip
(09-05-2013, 09:05 PM)
BlackFlip's Avatar

Originally Posted by Albert Penello


People DO understand that Microsoft has some of the smartest graphics programmers IN THE WORLD. We CREATED DirectX, the standard API’s that everyone programs against. So while people laude Sony for their HW skills, do you really think we don’t know how to build a system optimized for maximizing graphics for programmers? Seriously? There is no way we’re giving up a 30%+ advantage to Sony. And ANYONE who has seen both systems running could say there are great looking games on both systems. If there was really huge performance difference – it would be obvious.

I get a ton of hate for saying this – but it’s been the same EVERY generation. Sony claims more power, they did it with Cell, they did it with Emotion Engine, and they are doing it again. And, in the end, games on our system looked the same or better.

I’m not saying they haven’t built a good system – I’m merely saying that anyone who wants to die on their sword over this 30%+ power advantage are going to be fighting an uphill battle over the next 10 years…

Interesting, so you guys are expecting history to repeat itself next gen?
Jac_Solar
Banned
(09-05-2013, 09:07 PM)

Originally Posted by Joeki11a

Albert says MS Digital plan would had been better than Steam, says MS still want this DRM future
Around 9:25 in the video he goes all hyped about it

"fans got scared, whateverr but Its coming next gen, deal with it Discs are gone forevaaaa etc"

Scary excitment...

Where is the logic in that? How could a digital store that's on a platform where anyone can create a digital store, and where the are several digital stores, not be better than a store that's run by a company that owns the hardware the store is on? I really doubt Microsoft would let other companies create their own stores to compete with them. Steam has to compete with other companies (To a certain extent at the moment.) and as other digital outlets become bigger and better, they will have to do better.

Microsoft would have complete control of everything, and have 0 competition on their platform. They would be completely free to regulate the prices however they wanted, because there would be no influence from the market. They would be able to introduce silly amounts of advertising.

And since the only source of games would be from Microsoft itself, or the Digital Xbox store, there wouldn't be the element of price reduction from retailers competing with each other and lowering prices.

You won't be able to play an Xbox game on anything but the Xbox.

The only other competition would be Sony, most likely, since they would also get the majority of the same games, but not the exclusives. The risk of increasing prices to ridiculous levels would be that people might sell off their Xboxes and go to Playstation.

But I wouldn't be surprised, at all, if they raised prices to 80-90$, didn't have any sales, except, perhaps, for certain underperforming games or multiplatform titles, and tried to increase prices to 100-120$.
NoirVisage
Banned
(09-05-2013, 09:07 PM)

Originally Posted by Albert Penello


Performance: Iím not dismissing raw performance. Iím stating Ė as I have stated from the beginning Ė that the performance delta between the two platforms is not as great as the raw numbers lead the average consumer to believe. There are things about our system architecture not fully understood, and there are things about theirs as well, that bring the two systems into balance.

People DO understand that Microsoft has some of the smartest graphics programmers IN THE WORLD. We CREATED DirectX, the standard APIís that everyone programs against. So while people laude Sony for their HW skills, do you really think we donít know how to build a system optimized for maximizing graphics for programmers? Seriously? There is no way weíre giving up a 30%+ advantage to Sony. And ANYONE who has seen both systems running could say there are great looking games on both systems. If there was really huge performance difference Ė it would be obvious.

I get a ton of hate for saying this Ė but itís been the same EVERY generation. Sony claims more power, they did it with Cell, they did it with Emotion Engine, and they are doing it again. And, in the end, games on our system looked the same or better.

Iím not saying they havenít built a good system Ė Iím merely saying that anyone who wants to die on their sword over this 30%+ power advantage are going to be fighting an uphill battle over the next 10 yearsÖ

You shouldn't have took the bait, you know what you say here is fair game for gaming sites, that's "shot's fired" to the Nth power! The difference In power this time around is a lot clearer than its ever been, barring MS coming up with their own "cell" I can't see your statement as doing anything but backfiring.
Last edited by NoirVisage; 09-05-2013 at 09:10 PM.
hawk2025
Member
(09-05-2013, 09:08 PM)
hawk2025's Avatar
I forgot everything I'd just read after getting to the end and seeing "10 years".



:(

The statements regarding power are really, really risky, and I don't think MS should be bringing up the past at this point as evidence, lest we return to the Red Ring of Death discussion.
Last edited by hawk2025; 09-05-2013 at 09:12 PM.
MCD
Member
(09-05-2013, 09:09 PM)
MCD's Avatar

Originally Posted by Albert Penello

True story about this interview:

I made poor Adam wait for me for like 20 min. I had totally underestimated the fact it was going to take me NEARLY AN HOUR to find parking at PAX. So I was totally frustrated, had been in a car in traffic for over 90 minutes, and was RUSHING into the convention center. I had just walked in, and had been keeping him and his crew waiting. So I sat down, and we rolled Ė no prep or anything. Iím surprised I didnít come across as a complete buffoon given how cold I came into this.

I also found out this was going to be on-camera, which Iím not a big fan of, because, wellÖ look at me. I have a face for Radio.

Anyway I appreciate the kind comments.

Iím not going to get into this PR thing again. There are clearly people who understand, and people who donít. Iíve been a GAF member for a while, and was a reader long before that. Iíve been in gaming my entire professional career, and a player since videogames EXISTED. I come on GAF because I want to. I donít get paid to post here or any other silly nonsense. Occasionally, the PR team will roll me out to do official interviews, which Iím not really a huge fan of doing.

Regarding the Kinect video I was talking about. There are several, but the one I like best is this. Also Ė this is now several months old. Latency is even better now.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hi5kMNfgDS4

Disc install Ė Turns out, at this point the speed and throughput of the consoles exceeds the transfer speeds of the disc. I donít have the exact numbers, but the reason BOTH CONSOLES do mandatory installs is because youíd be actually giving up a ton of potential performance by bottlenecking the systems at the read speeds of the disc. Even on 360 games like GTAV are mandatory HDD installs Ė at this point reading from disc is just too slow. On top of which, the instant game switching feature goes awayÖ

Performance: Iím not dismissing raw performance. Iím stating Ė as I have stated from the beginning Ė that the performance delta between the two platforms is not as great as the raw numbers lead the average consumer to believe. There are things about our system architecture not fully understood, and there are things about theirs as well, that bring the two systems into balance.

People DO understand that Microsoft has some of the smartest graphics programmers IN THE WORLD. We CREATED DirectX, the standard APIís that everyone programs against. So while people laude Sony for their HW skills, do you really think we donít know how to build a system optimized for maximizing graphics for programmers? Seriously? There is no way weíre giving up a 30%+ advantage to Sony. And ANYONE who has seen both systems running could say there are great looking games on both systems. If there was really huge performance difference Ė it would be obvious.

I get a ton of hate for saying this Ė but itís been the same EVERY generation. Sony claims more power, they did it with Cell, they did it with Emotion Engine, and they are doing it again. And, in the end, games on our system looked the same or better.

Iím not saying they havenít built a good system Ė Iím merely saying that anyone who wants to die on their sword over this 30%+ power advantage are going to be fighting an uphill battle over the next 10 yearsÖ

But Albert, your hot silicon engineer said this:

"We purposefully did not target the highest end graphics. We targeted it more as a broad entertainment play." (at the 5:43-minute-mark)
shinobi602
(09-05-2013, 09:09 PM)
shinobi602's Avatar

Originally Posted by Albert Penello

People DO understand that Microsoft has some of the smartest graphics programmers IN THE WORLD. We CREATED DirectX, the standard API’s that everyone programs against. So while people laude Sony for their HW skills, do you really think we don’t know how to build a system optimized for maximizing graphics for programmers? Seriously? There is no way we’re giving up a 30%+ advantage to Sony. And ANYONE who has seen both systems running could say there are great looking games on both systems. If there was really huge performance difference – it would be obvious.

I get a ton of hate for saying this – but it’s been the same EVERY generation. Sony claims more power, they did it with Cell, they did it with Emotion Engine, and they are doing it again. And, in the end, games on our system looked the same or better.

I’m not saying they haven’t built a good system – I’m merely saying that anyone who wants to die on their sword over this 30%+ power advantage are going to be fighting an uphill battle over the next 10 years…

Last edited by shinobi602; 09-05-2013 at 09:12 PM.
Axispowers
Member
(09-05-2013, 09:10 PM)
Axispowers's Avatar
Fantastic interview
shungokusatsu
Member
(09-05-2013, 09:11 PM)
shungokusatsu's Avatar

Originally Posted by upJTboogie

Interesting, so you guys are expecting history to repeat itself next gen?

The Emotion Engine and Cell were exotic processors. This time around Xbone and PS4 both have x86-64 architecture.
Rustle Da Jimmies
Banned
(09-05-2013, 09:11 PM)

Originally Posted by Albert Penello

True story about this interview:

I made poor Adam wait for me for like 20 min. I had totally underestimated the fact it was going to take me NEARLY AN HOUR to find parking at PAX. So I was totally frustrated, had been in a car in traffic for over 90 minutes, and was RUSHING into the convention center. I had just walked in, and had been keeping him and his crew waiting. So I sat down, and we rolled Ė no prep or anything. Iím surprised I didnít come across as a complete buffoon given how cold I came into this.

I also found out this was going to be on-camera, which Iím not a big fan of, because, wellÖ look at me. I have a face for Radio.

Anyway I appreciate the kind comments.

Iím not going to get into this PR thing again. There are clearly people who understand, and people who donít. Iíve been a GAF member for a while, and was a reader long before that. Iíve been in gaming my entire professional career, and a player since videogames EXISTED. I come on GAF because I want to. I donít get paid to post here or any other silly nonsense. Occasionally, the PR team will roll me out to do official interviews, which Iím not really a huge fan of doing.

Regarding the Kinect video I was talking about. There are several, but the one I like best is this. Also Ė this is now several months old. Latency is even better now.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hi5kMNfgDS4

Disc install Ė Turns out, at this point the speed and throughput of the consoles exceeds the transfer speeds of the disc. I donít have the exact numbers, but the reason BOTH CONSOLES do mandatory installs is because youíd be actually giving up a ton of potential performance by bottlenecking the systems at the read speeds of the disc. Even on 360 games like GTAV are mandatory HDD installs Ė at this point reading from disc is just too slow. On top of which, the instant game switching feature goes awayÖ

Performance: Iím not dismissing raw performance. Iím stating Ė as I have stated from the beginning Ė that the performance delta between the two platforms is not as great as the raw numbers lead the average consumer to believe. There are things about our system architecture not fully understood, and there are things about theirs as well, that bring the two systems into balance.

People DO understand that Microsoft has some of the smartest graphics programmers IN THE WORLD. We CREATED DirectX, the standard APIís that everyone programs against. So while people laude Sony for their HW skills, do you really think we donít know how to build a system optimized for maximizing graphics for programmers? Seriously? There is no way weíre giving up a 30%+ advantage to Sony. And ANYONE who has seen both systems running could say there are great looking games on both systems. If there was really huge performance difference Ė it would be obvious.

I get a ton of hate for saying this Ė but itís been the same EVERY generation. Sony claims more power, they did it with Cell, they did it with Emotion Engine, and they are doing it again. And, in the end, games on our system looked the same or better.

Iím not saying they havenít built a good system Ė Iím merely saying that anyone who wants to die on their sword over this 30%+ power advantage are going to be fighting an uphill battle over the next 10 yearsÖ

Dat Ether.

I sense a world of rustled jimmies.
Chuck
Still without luck
(09-05-2013, 09:11 PM)
Chuck's Avatar
lol, those softballs then "why is this a slow piece of shit compared to the PS4"

+1 sessler
TRios Zen
Member
(09-05-2013, 09:12 PM)
TRios Zen's Avatar

Originally Posted by Brimstone

Yeah and how long will it take to download Space Owl Barbarian 5000 and the other handful of game discs.


Microsoft and EA want to napalm the forest of physical media.

I'm not arguing that Physical Media needs to go away. I'm arguing that digital media doesn't have to = "anti-consumer worst thing ever". I think the two could (and will have to ) coexist.

That being said, as games on Xbox One and PS4 will be available to play before you finish down-loading, the wait between download start and play time would hopefully be minimal.
Curufinwe
Member
(09-05-2013, 09:13 PM)
Curufinwe's Avatar

Originally Posted by Albert Penello

People DO understand that Microsoft has some of the smartest graphics programmers IN THE WORLD. We CREATED DirectX, the standard API’s that everyone programs against. So while people laude Sony for their HW skills, do you really think we don’t know how to build a system optimized for maximizing graphics for programmers? Seriously? There is no way we’re giving up a 30%+ advantage to Sony. And ANYONE who has seen both systems running could say there are great looking games on both systems. If there was really huge performance difference – it would be obvious.

I get a ton of hate for saying this – but it’s been the same EVERY generation. Sony claims more power, they did it with Cell, they did it with Emotion Engine, and they are doing it again. And, in the end, games on our system looked the same or better.

I’m not saying they haven’t built a good system – I’m merely saying that anyone who wants to die on their sword over this 30%+ power advantage are going to be fighting an uphill battle over the next 10 years…

We're not dumb, Albert. We can look at the GPU specs and understand what they mean, even if you guys can't.

You might be able to fool people like Digital Foundry into thinking that having DMEs and ESRAM that exist only to address the fundamentally limited bandwidth inherent to your DDR3 system are actually better than having a console with 8 GB of GDDR5 RAM that doesn't need them, but not everyone is going to be that gullible.
Last edited by Curufinwe; 09-05-2013 at 09:16 PM.
Bgamer90
Member
(09-05-2013, 09:13 PM)
Bgamer90's Avatar
Welp, should be another 10-20 heated pages in this thread coming from Albert's post.

Haha, thanks for chiming in. I will now leave this thread that I created...
BlackFlip
(09-05-2013, 09:13 PM)
BlackFlip's Avatar

Originally Posted by shungokusatsu

The Emotion Engine and Cell were exotic processors. This time around Xbone and PS4 both have x86-64 architecture.

I know, most here know and there will be a difference. I'm surprised that they are expecting games to be equal or better on their hardware though. That was definitely a backfire prone quote.
EvB
Member
(09-05-2013, 09:13 PM)
EvB's Avatar

Originally Posted by Joeki11a

Albert says MS Digital plan would had been better than Steam, says MS still want this DRM future
Around 9:25 in the video he goes all hyped about it

"fans got scared, whateverr but Its coming next gen, deal with it Discs are gone forevaaaa etc"

Scary excitment...

Why are you putting " " as if it's a quote. That is not what he said at all!
Albert Penello
MS Director of Product Planning
"Now More Direct than ever!"
(09-05-2013, 09:14 PM)
Albert Penello's Avatar

Originally Posted by MCD

But Albert, your hot silicon engineer said this:

"We purposefully did not target the highest end graphics. We targeted it more as a broad entertainment play." (at the 5:43-minute-mark)

Correct, we did say that. And, according to every PC gamer here, neither did Sony.

Translation: I believe there are core PC gamers who will tell you that neither system targeted the highest-end graphics.
Wynnebeck
get daddy a sandwich
(09-05-2013, 09:14 PM)
Wynnebeck's Avatar

Originally Posted by Albert Penello

I get a ton of hate for saying this Ė but itís been the same EVERY generation. Sony claims more power, they did it with Cell, they did it with Emotion Engine, and they are doing it again. And, in the end, games on our system looked the same or better.

Iím not saying they havenít built a good system Ė Iím merely saying that anyone who wants to die on their sword over this 30%+ power advantage are going to be fighting an uphill battle over the next 10 yearsÖ

LOL The gall on this guy! Paging DemonNite and Verendus!
T.O.P
Member
(09-05-2013, 09:14 PM)
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Originally Posted by Albert Penello

True story about this interview:

I made poor Adam wait for me for like 20 min. I had totally underestimated the fact it was going to take me NEARLY AN HOUR to find parking at PAX. So I was totally frustrated, had been in a car in traffic for over 90 minutes, and was RUSHING into the convention center. I had just walked in, and had been keeping him and his crew waiting. So I sat down, and we rolled Ė no prep or anything. Iím surprised I didnít come across as a complete buffoon given how cold I came into this.

I also found out this was going to be on-camera, which Iím not a big fan of, because, wellÖ look at me. I have a face for Radio.

Anyway I appreciate the kind comments.

Iím not going to get into this PR thing again. There are clearly people who understand, and people who donít. Iíve been a GAF member for a while, and was a reader long before that. Iíve been in gaming my entire professional career, and a player since videogames EXISTED. I come on GAF because I want to. I donít get paid to post here or any other silly nonsense. Occasionally, the PR team will roll me out to do official interviews, which Iím not really a huge fan of doing.

Regarding the Kinect video I was talking about. There are several, but the one I like best is this. Also Ė this is now several months old. Latency is even better now.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hi5kMNfgDS4

Disc install Ė Turns out, at this point the speed and throughput of the consoles exceeds the transfer speeds of the disc. I donít have the exact numbers, but the reason BOTH CONSOLES do mandatory installs is because youíd be actually giving up a ton of potential performance by bottlenecking the systems at the read speeds of the disc. Even on 360 games like GTAV are mandatory HDD installs Ė at this point reading from disc is just too slow. On top of which, the instant game switching feature goes awayÖ

Performance: Iím not dismissing raw performance. Iím stating Ė as I have stated from the beginning Ė that the performance delta between the two platforms is not as great as the raw numbers lead the average consumer to believe. There are things about our system architecture not fully understood, and there are things about theirs as well, that bring the two systems into balance.

People DO understand that Microsoft has some of the smartest graphics programmers IN THE WORLD. We CREATED DirectX, the standard APIís that everyone programs against. So while people laude Sony for their HW skills, do you really think we donít know how to build a system optimized for maximizing graphics for programmers? Seriously? There is no way weíre giving up a 30%+ advantage to Sony. And ANYONE who has seen both systems running could say there are great looking games on both systems. If there was really huge performance difference Ė it would be obvious.

I get a ton of hate for saying this Ė but itís been the same EVERY generation. Sony claims more power, they did it with Cell, they did it with Emotion Engine, and they are doing it again. And, in the end, games on our system looked the same or better.

Iím not saying they havenít built a good system Ė Iím merely saying that anyone who wants to die on their sword over this 30%+ power advantage are going to be fighting an uphill battle over the next 10 yearsÖ

I love u lol
SPEA
Member
(09-05-2013, 09:15 PM)
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Originally Posted by Curufinwe

We're not dumb, Albert. We can look at the GPU specs and understand what they mean, even if you guys can't.

Yup. The people on the Microsoft engineering team have no idea what GPU specs mean. Makes sense.

Sigh...
CambriaRising
Member
(09-05-2013, 09:15 PM)
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Originally Posted by upJTboogie

I know, most here know and there will be a difference. I'm surprised that they are expecting games to be equal or better on their hardware though. That was definitely a backfire prone quote.

It is to spin a narrative in order to deceive and soften the information we have. This is blatant social engineering and it is sad that some will fall for it.
Garrett 2U
Member
(09-05-2013, 09:15 PM)
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Albert turning up the heat, dayum!

Originally Posted by MCD

But Albert, your hot silicon engineer said this:

"We purposefully did not target the highest end graphics. We targeted it more as a broad entertainment play." (at the 5:43-minute-mark)

Yeah, Sony didn't target the highest end graphics either.
These consoles would cost thousands of dollars.

Beaten

Originally Posted by Albert Penello

Correct, we did say that. And, according to every PC gamer here, neither did Sony.

Translation: I believe there are core PC gamers who will tell you that neither system targeted the highest-end graphics.

Last edited by Garrett 2U; 09-05-2013 at 09:17 PM.
hawk2025
Member
(09-05-2013, 09:15 PM)
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Originally Posted by Albert Penello

Correct, we did say that. And, according to every PC gamer here, neither did Sony.

Translation: I believe there are core PC gamers who will tell you that neither system targeted the highest-end graphics.

Are you sure you want to quote every PC gamer here, when they will be the first ones to say that, indeed, unlike last time, we CAN say something about power differences?
statham
Banned
(09-05-2013, 09:16 PM)
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Originally Posted by Albert Penello

Correct, we did say that. And, according to every PC gamer here, neither did Sony.

Translation: I believe there are core PC gamers who will tell you that neither system targeted the highest-end graphics.

They aren't, both systems decided to break even and make money. Last generation both consoles took big hits to get topline graphics.
PhatSaqs
(09-05-2013, 09:17 PM)
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Originally Posted by Albert Penello

....

Deadly Cyclone
Pride of Iowa State
(09-05-2013, 09:17 PM)
Deadly Cyclone's Avatar

Originally Posted by Albert Penello

True story about this interview:

I made poor Adam wait for me for like 20 min. I had totally underestimated the fact it was going to take me NEARLY AN HOUR to find parking at PAX. So I was totally frustrated, had been in a car in traffic for over 90 minutes, and was RUSHING into the convention center. I had just walked in, and had been keeping him and his crew waiting. So I sat down, and we rolled Ė no prep or anything. Iím surprised I didnít come across as a complete buffoon given how cold I came into this.

I also found out this was going to be on-camera, which Iím not a big fan of, because, wellÖ look at me. I have a face for Radio.

Anyway I appreciate the kind comments.

Iím not going to get into this PR thing again. There are clearly people who understand, and people who donít. Iíve been a GAF member for a while, and was a reader long before that. Iíve been in gaming my entire professional career, and a player since videogames EXISTED. I come on GAF because I want to. I donít get paid to post here or any other silly nonsense. Occasionally, the PR team will roll me out to do official interviews, which Iím not really a huge fan of doing.

Regarding the Kinect video I was talking about. There are several, but the one I like best is this. Also Ė this is now several months old. Latency is even better now.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hi5kMNfgDS4

Disc install Ė Turns out, at this point the speed and throughput of the consoles exceeds the transfer speeds of the disc. I donít have the exact numbers, but the reason BOTH CONSOLES do mandatory installs is because youíd be actually giving up a ton of potential performance by bottlenecking the systems at the read speeds of the disc. Even on 360 games like GTAV are mandatory HDD installs Ė at this point reading from disc is just too slow. On top of which, the instant game switching feature goes awayÖ

Performance: Iím not dismissing raw performance. Iím stating Ė as I have stated from the beginning Ė that the performance delta between the two platforms is not as great as the raw numbers lead the average consumer to believe. There are things about our system architecture not fully understood, and there are things about theirs as well, that bring the two systems into balance.

People DO understand that Microsoft has some of the smartest graphics programmers IN THE WORLD. We CREATED DirectX, the standard APIís that everyone programs against. So while people laude Sony for their HW skills, do you really think we donít know how to build a system optimized for maximizing graphics for programmers? Seriously? There is no way weíre giving up a 30%+ advantage to Sony. And ANYONE who has seen both systems running could say there are great looking games on both systems. If there was really huge performance difference Ė it would be obvious.

I get a ton of hate for saying this Ė but itís been the same EVERY generation. Sony claims more power, they did it with Cell, they did it with Emotion Engine, and they are doing it again. And, in the end, games on our system looked the same or better.

Iím not saying they havenít built a good system Ė Iím merely saying that anyone who wants to die on their sword over this 30%+ power advantage are going to be fighting an uphill battle over the next 10 yearsÖ


Thanks for the reply! Interesting read too.
ChosenPredator
Member
(09-05-2013, 09:17 PM)
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albert good god your replies are gorgeous , you need to post here every so often
gamechanger87
Member
(09-05-2013, 09:17 PM)
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Originally Posted by Curufinwe

We're not dumb, Albert. We can look at the GPU specs and understand what they mean, even if you guys can't.

You might be able to fool people like Digital Foundry into thinking that having DMEs and ESRAM that exist only to address the fundamentally limited bandwidth inherent to your DDR3 system are actually better than having a console with 8 GB of GDDR5 RAM that doesn't need them, but not everyone is going to be that gullible.

Glad to see you know more about the engineering of the console than someone who works on it.
K' Dash
Member
(09-05-2013, 09:17 PM)
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Originally Posted by MCD

But Albert, your hot silicon engineer said this:

"We purposefully did not target the highest end graphics. We targeted it more as a broad entertainment play." (at the 5:43-minute-mark)

shungokusatsu
Member
(09-05-2013, 09:17 PM)
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Originally Posted by upJTboogie

I know, most here know and there will be a difference. I'm surprised that they are expecting games to be equal or better on their hardware though. That was definitely a backfire prone quote.

Eh, that was kind of a loaded statement that could be applied to current or next gen, but, yep, it's going to backfire. We'll have to wait for the DF comparisons at launch, but even those won't be great since CoD Ghosts and BF4 are effectively ports from current gen. We need to wait for games built for next gen from the ground up.
ShinMaruku
Member
(09-05-2013, 09:18 PM)
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Originally Posted by KHarvey16

Limiting the definition of journalism to reporting on events that would otherwise remain private is dumb. That excerpt describes journalism simultaneously as the dissemination of facts regarding events of public concern AND disseminating facts that would otherwise remain private. Is an article discussing a political debate not journalism? I don't see the appeal or need to put the word on such a pedestal that all journalists need to be Bob Woodward. A story about the industry or the development of a game or console can obviously be considered journalism.

You seem to have gotten to it just being covering events alone being journalism. It can also be stories as you said. But things from the press most of the time is not just about development of the game or console. It's mainly fluff and press stuff that they push as well as reviews. They are closer to critics than journalists. They have many hats so to hold them as journalists would seem a bit silly. As stated before a few can be considered journalists, but not the majority. Would you consider Greg Miller a Journalist?
Big Jeffrey
Member
(09-05-2013, 09:18 PM)
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Originally Posted by Albert Penello

People DO understand that Microsoft has some of the smartest graphics programmers IN THE WORLD. We CREATED DirectX, the standard APIís that everyone programs against.

Spongebob
Banned
(09-05-2013, 09:18 PM)

Originally Posted by Albert Penello

True story about this interview:

I made poor Adam wait for me for like 20 min. I had totally underestimated the fact it was going to take me NEARLY AN HOUR to find parking at PAX. So I was totally frustrated, had been in a car in traffic for over 90 minutes, and was RUSHING into the convention center. I had just walked in, and had been keeping him and his crew waiting. So I sat down, and we rolled – no prep or anything. I’m surprised I didn’t come across as a complete buffoon given how cold I came into this.

I also found out this was going to be on-camera, which I’m not a big fan of, because, well… look at me. I have a face for Radio.

Anyway I appreciate the kind comments.

I’m not going to get into this PR thing again. There are clearly people who understand, and people who don’t. I’ve been a GAF member for a while, and was a reader long before that. I’ve been in gaming my entire professional career, and a player since videogames EXISTED. I come on GAF because I want to. I don’t get paid to post here or any other silly nonsense. Occasionally, the PR team will roll me out to do official interviews, which I’m not really a huge fan of doing.

Regarding the Kinect video I was talking about. There are several, but the one I like best is this. Also – this is now several months old. Latency is even better now.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hi5kMNfgDS4

Disc install – Turns out, at this point the speed and throughput of the consoles exceeds the transfer speeds of the disc. I don’t have the exact numbers, but the reason BOTH CONSOLES do mandatory installs is because you’d be actually giving up a ton of potential performance by bottlenecking the systems at the read speeds of the disc. Even on 360 games like GTAV are mandatory HDD installs – at this point reading from disc is just too slow. On top of which, the instant game switching feature goes away…

Performance: I’m not dismissing raw performance. I’m stating – as I have stated from the beginning – that the performance delta between the two platforms is not as great as the raw numbers lead the average consumer to believe. There are things about our system architecture not fully understood, and there are things about theirs as well, that bring the two systems into balance.

People DO understand that Microsoft has some of the smartest graphics programmers IN THE WORLD. We CREATED DirectX, the standard API’s that everyone programs against. So while people laude Sony for their HW skills, do you really think we don’t know how to build a system optimized for maximizing graphics for programmers? Seriously? There is no way we’re giving up a 30%+ advantage to Sony. And ANYONE who has seen both systems running could say there are great looking games on both systems. If there was really huge performance difference – it would be obvious.

I get a ton of hate for saying this – but it’s been the same EVERY generation. Sony claims more power, they did it with Cell, they did it with Emotion Engine, and they are doing it again. And, in the end, games on our system looked the same or better.

I’m not saying they haven’t built a good system – I’m merely saying that anyone who wants to die on their sword over this 30%+ power advantage are going to be fighting an uphill battle over the next 10 years…

The differences between next-gen and other generations has been explained many times.

Are you so dense as to equate the two?

Also, lol at both systems having good looking games being some sort of evidence to suggest that the two systems are equal.
Deadly Cyclone
Pride of Iowa State
(09-05-2013, 09:19 PM)
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Originally Posted by Curufinwe

We're not dumb, Albert. We can look at the GPU specs and understand what they mean, even if you guys can't.

You might be able to fool people like Digital Foundry into thinking that having DMEs and ESRAM that exist only to address the fundamentally limited bandwidth inherent to your DDR3 system are actually better than having a console with 8 GB of GDDR5 RAM that doesn't need them, but not everyone is going to be that gullible.

Curufinwe, smarter than all of Microsoft's engineers.
beast786
Member
(09-05-2013, 09:19 PM)
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Originally Posted by Deadly Cyclone

Curufinwe, smarter than all of Microsoft's engineers.

Yep ,same engineers who gave us RROD
EvB
Member
(09-05-2013, 09:19 PM)
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Originally Posted by hawk2025

Are you sure you want to quote every PC gamer here, when they will be the first ones to say that, indeed, unlike last time, we CAN say something about power differences?

Except them having an x86 processor, they share nothing into common with PC architecture.

I can't imagine anybody here has a PC with a unified 8GB of GDDR5 or a PC with 32MB ESRAM and 8GB Unified DDR3 memory!
Can anybody answer why games run worse for me on my OSX partition than they do on my Windows Partition?

There is clearly more to it than just hardware.

x86 am cry
Last edited by EvB; 09-05-2013 at 09:22 PM.
Psycho_Mantis
Member
(09-05-2013, 09:20 PM)
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Except this time we know the specs of each machine. Theres no spinning that. What I do agree on is that it may not necessarily mean the games on PS4 are significantly better but the hardware difference is still there and still a notable one nevertheless.
Deadly Cyclone
Pride of Iowa State
(09-05-2013, 09:20 PM)
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Originally Posted by beast786

Yep ,same engineers who gave us RROD

You should apply! I'm sure you'd get a job there. Maybe.

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