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Albert Penello puts dGPU Xbox One rumor to rest

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onQ123

Member
"Perf. differences are greatly overstated."

how could he say this if he don't know the changes that Sony done to their SoC?


the changes Sony made could have been a lot better than the changes that they made so the differences could be bigger than what people think.

just a thought.
 

The Flash

Banned
What gets me is why people want it to be more powerful? Why? It's fine the way it is. Just look at Gears 1 and then look at Gears 3. Xbox One games will get better as the years go on. Will they get astronomically better? No and it doesn't matter. It really really doesn't matter.
 

Mrbob

Member
That's you secret sauce right there - saying a 40% performance difference will be mitigated by great architecture choices on MSes side and not so great choices on Sony's sounds like secret sauce to me.

edit: for reference:
source

I can't tell anymore if this is serious or master troll.
 

xxracerxx

Don't worry, I'll vouch for them.
What gets me is why people want it to be more powerful? Why? It's fine the way it is. Just look at Gears 1 and then look at Gears 3. Xbox One games will get better as the years go on. Will they get astronomically better? No and it doesn't matter. It really really doesn't matter.
Tell that to the PC people. Yikes.
 

Caronte

Member
ilERlIuaHoeTm.gif

This is the best thing ever lol
 

FINALBOSS

Banned
seriously...you guys have to go read this stuff...its unreal...

It's like a case study of how mental illnesses manifest in writing. It's simply fascinating.

I've been visiting it every day since someone posted it last week to read what he writes and what commentators post. It's amazing.

I seriously thought it was a secret Sony fanboy parody page trying to get Xbone fanboys riled up.
 

benny_a

extra source of jiggaflops
Which is the perfect kind of rumor because it can't be debunked; just one person's claim against another's. (Well, at least until mature software comes out and performance differences can be quantifiable measured.)

The problem of course will be though that the first wave of games is unlikely to dig into the nuances of either system, so none of these games will run as well as they can or take advantage of either's strengths. So we'll see this debate continue to rage, maybe for years, until something actually comes out that shows it one way or another.
The PS4 should be stronger on day 1 than the Xbox One. It has more raw power and the more straightforward architecture.

On November 22nd the difference that will be measurable will be said to not be significant and "oh so they are comparable after all" not realizing that both will continue to be optimized with the PS4 being a bit more future-proof IMO with the emphasis on GPGPU.
(Fully hUMA / more ACE / libGNM vs. DX11. The last one is just an assumption that this gen repeats itself.)
 
What gets me is why people want it to be more powerful? Why? It's fine the way it is.
Well I know its probably been a bummer for PS3 owners this gen to see so many multiplatform titles underperform on that console in comparison to the 360. Nobody wants to be in the position of buying the console that has to cut some corners, disable some effects, or introduce tearing or framerate issues (or worse) with their games.
 

x-Lundz-x

Member
MS seems really adamant about these power rumors being false. I can't wait for the DF face offs this fall.

I should add in sheer numbers the Xbox is weaker on paper and I wish they would speak in Laymans terms why this doesn't matter rather than beating around the bush.
 
I'm inclined to believe the PS4 is substantially more powerful based on the spec sheets alone. Also a few brave developers dropping a hint here and there.

However, Microsoft designed a very smart console in the Xbox 360. They had foresight on many fronts when designing that console, which allowed them to update their OS over time, and add things like party chat, etc. So part of me doesn't believe Microsoft would design a console that puts them at a substantial disadvantage.

I think we're in the age of diminishing returns. Let's say all other things being equal XB1 multi-plats run at 720p and the PS4 is 1080p (not an unlikely scenario). Do you think these are big differences? I sure don't and I doubt your average consumer will either.
 

LiquidMetal14

hide your water-based mammals
That's you secret sauce right there - saying a 40% performance difference will be mitigated by great architecture choices on MSes side and not so great choices on Sony's sounds like secret sauce to me.

edit: for reference:
source

The sad part about all this is that Sony isn't necessarily tooting their horn with custom tweaks and last minute things. They are just continuing along.
 

B_Boss

Member
David Atlee Phillips would be absolutely proud...hell even Goebbels....to see the absolute power of Psyops in the gaming sector lol...
 

velociraptor

Junior Member
With all due respect, I don't believe Albert. Compare the 7850 (1.76TF) with the 7770 (1.28TF). The performance difference is staggering. Now both the PS4 and Xbox One have better GPUs than the aforementioned (1.84 vs 1.31). However, the gap between the two console GPUs is greater than the gap between the two AMD GPUs that I have just mentioned.

Here is badb0y's writeup:
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=74541511&postcount=621

I do not see how Microsoft will mitigate that gap unless they're using some sorcery.
 

sangreal

Member
Penello is still adamant that the power disparity between the two consoles is still not as huge as commonly believed. Based on the data we currently know, do you tech savvy guys believe there is any feasible way that he could be correct or are his arguments just damage control?

He isn't claiming the power disparity is less, he is saying the disparity in output won't be as evident as people seem to think. The PS4 is obviously more powerful on paper, but the systems are more than the sums of their parts. To me, the PS4 launch games look a little better but there isn't a huge disparity so far. I wouldn't be surprised to see that disparity grow, but I also still remember all the "Xbox 1.5" bullshit from 2005, peddled back then by the same knowledgeable like gofreak pushing the ps4 here today
 

The Flash

Banned
Well I know its probably been a bummer for PS3 owners this gen to see so many multiplatform titles underperform on that console in comparison to the 360. Nobody wants to be in the position of buying the console that has to cut some corners, disable some effects, or introduce tearing or framerate issues (or worse) with their games.

But my understanding as far as the PS3 was that it was that way because it had goofy architecture. The Xbox One and PS4 have almost the same architecture so I wouldn't imagine that the games would be that different.
 

Curufinwe

Member
I think we're in the age of diminishing returns. Let's say all other things being equal XB1 multi-plats run at 720p and the PS4 is 1080p (not an unlikely scenario). Do you think these are big differences? I sure don't and I doubt your average consumer will either.

That would be a much larger resolution gap than on multiplatform games this gen that ran much better on the 360.
 
MS seems really adamant about these power rumors being false.

With all due respect, I don't believe Albert. Compare the 7850 (1.76TF) with the 7770 (1.28TF). The performance difference is staggering. Now both the PS4 and Xbox One have better GPUs than the aforementioned (1.84 vs 1.31). However, the gap between the two console GPUs is greater than the gap between the two AMD GPUs that I have just mentioned.

Here is badb0y's writeup:
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=74541511&postcount=621

I do not see how Microsoft will mitigate that gap unless they're using some sorcery.


To be fair to Microsoft, you can't really expect their PR to be like, "Yeah, we done fucked up. There's a 40% difference here, you guys. Did you hear me?? Forty fucking percent! Where's my whiskey bottle?"
 

Metfanant

Member
It's like a case study of how mental illnesses manifest in writing. It's simply fascinating.

I've been visiting it every day since someone posted it last week to read what he writes and what commentators post. It's amazing.

I seriously thought it was a secret Sony fanboy parody page trying to get Xbone fanboys riled up.

reading it is like stepping into some sort of bizarro parallel dimension...

i was reading over there one night about how MS is in the process of internal testing for Windows 9 and Windows 10...so you can assume that Direct X 11.5 and 12.0 are being developed along side them...and because of that, its OBVIOUS that the Xbone will incorporate features from the those future versions of DX....

my jaw just hit my desk when i read it...
 
Can someone explain what's going on? I'm confused.

I think reading that tweet finally broke my brain, I've been reading too much muddled up twitter stuff as of late what with Gucci Mane and the like.

In fact I don't think I care anymore.
 

romulus91

Member
Misterx am cry.

Wonder if he'll still claim it's just super top secret.

can someone explain who this misterx is? went on his site....FFS its like i rolled up on the twighlight zone. I was expecting bigfoot articles in between that shit .......... interestingly all comments are screened OoO
 
That would be a much larger resolution gap than on multiplatform games this gen that ran much better on the 360.

Considering with each resolution jump there are diminishing returns, particularly when people sit away from their TVs it really isn't a big deal. That's why I think the real world differences won't be a big deal to most consumers. I suspect that's what Albert Penello is referring to.

And the 360 vs PS3 stuff wasn't a big deal either for the most part. Mostly just fanboy wars.
 

Freki

Member
Yeah, you said Sony made some not so great choices with hardware design. Thought it was an odd comment to make.
That's what panello implied - read what I quoted again. How else could he arrive at the conclusion that a 40% difference in paper specs will be balanced out in the end?
 
To be fair to Microsoft, you can't really expect their PR to be like "Yeah, we done fucked up. There's a 40% difference here, you guys. Did you hear me?? Forty fucking percent! Where's my whiskey bottle?"
Haha yeah.

I parse this statement to mean that, yes, the Xbox One is weaker on paper, but because of diminishing returns people won't notice the difference that much over the course of this generation. Less so than this generation even.

That's how my brain unpacks it. Could still be full of shit, but that's how it sounds.
 

Jack_AG

Banned
This is crazy. Look, MS guys, I have 3 tips for you to instantly raise your cred, gain back lost trust and move units... Pay attention:

1). Shut up with all this PR nonsense. Digging will only make the hole deeper.
2). Remove kinect and drop the price.
3). Make great games.

There, done. Now fire your entire PR staff and hire me in their stead. I'm cheap. Like Red Bull and Slim Jims cheap.

Edit: I understand you guys are in "oh shit!" mode - but wildly flailing your limbs about with constant mixed messaging only further obfuscates. Unify the damn message and make it simple.

Lately you've been highlighting shit as a selling point WE ALREADY HAVE. Lose the ignorance, guys. This is absurdly embarrassing for the Xbox division.
 

benny_a

extra source of jiggaflops
I think we're in the age of diminishing returns. Let's say all other things being equal XB1 multi-plats run at 720p and the PS4 is 1080p (not an unlikely scenario). Do you think these are big differences? I sure don't and I doubt your average consumer will either.
I don't think the difference will be 720p and 1080p.

Also this comment about the Xbox 360 from May 2005 and "diminishing returns":
People just have to accept that Microsoft is concerned with other areas of innovation besides graphics.

---

3). Make great games.
"That takes years. We want results now!" says Powerpoint-Presentation watching guy in a meeting.
 

Derrick01

Banned
To be fair to Microsoft, you can't really expect their PR to be like, "Yeah, we done fucked up. There's a 40% difference here, you guys. Did you hear me?? Forty fucking percent! Where's my whiskey bottle?"

Depending on what day it is they go from doubting there really is a 30-40% difference to basically admitting there is but saying no one will be able to tell the difference anyway.
 

FINALBOSS

Banned
But my understanding as far as the PS3 was that it was that way because it had goofy architecture. The Xbox One and PS4 have almost the same architecture so I wouldn't imagine that the games would be that different.

The PS3 GPU was weaker...and not by a lot.

The gap between the Xbone and PS4 is much much much larger.
 
What gets me is why people want it to be more powerful? Why? It's fine the way it is. Just look at Gears 1 and then look at Gears 3. Xbox One games will get better as the years go on. Will they get astronomically better? No and it doesn't matter. It really really doesn't matter.

Exactly, I never understood the concern. If anything, people should want both consoles to do well because competition promotes innovation. I don't want to live in a world deprived of choice, where all we have is one console.

I just want great games, graphical fidelity isn't everything. Both consoles will be capable of rendering amazing looking textures. Give me games!
 
I see he put to rest the power difference between the 2 as well. I'm glad to see someone in the know actually clarify there is no power difference, even though one system has more power.

Thanks Albert;)
 
What gets me is why people want it to be more powerful? Why? It's fine the way it is. Just look at Gears 1 and then look at Gears 3. Xbox One games will get better as the years go on. Will they get astronomically better? No and it doesn't matter. It really really doesn't matter.

Because my console can beat your console up!

I see he put to rest the power difference between the 2 as well. I'm glad to see someone in the know actually clarify there is no power difference, even though one system has more power.

Thanks Albert;)

Just like Ahmadinejad knows there's no gay people in Iran.
 
Considering with each resolution jump there are diminishing returns, particularly when people sit away from their TVs it really isn't a big deal. That's why I think the real world differences won't be a big deal to most consumers. I suspect that's what Albert Penello is referring to.

I agree that the average consumer won't notice the graphical differences.
You can bet your ass they will notice that $100 price difference though! lol

I'm not so sure that's what Albert is talking about. I believe he's going to argue that their console is "tuned" and "balanced" better than Sony's. That when you add it all up in the real world, the differences will be trivial in most cases.
 
I don't think the difference will be 720p and 1080p.

Also this comment about the Xbox 360 from May 2005 and "diminishing returns":

You think it will be more or less of a difference? If you think more I think you are in for some disappointment. From a dev's perspective, what's the point of making the PS4 version a lot better? Resolution tuning is cheap and easy.
 

FINALBOSS

Banned
Exactly, I never understood the concern. If anything, people should want both consoles to do well because competition promotes innovation. I don't want to live in a world deprived of choice, where all we have is one console.

I just want great games, graphical fidelity isn't everything. Both consoles will be capable of rending amazing looking textures.

How can you not understand the concern? No one wants to be playing a game that makes compromises when there's a version on a cheaper console that has all the bells and whistles. Really don't understand how anyone can't understand that.

And being more powerful doesn't have anything to do with the consoles doing well--so that entire point is moot.

I agree that the average consumer won't notice. I'm not so sure that's what Albert is talking about. I believe he's going to argue that their console is "tuned" and "balanced" better than Sony's. That when you add it all up in the real world, the differences will be trivial in most cases.

Maybe. But your average consumer gets their product knowledge from friends and family "in the know" and the most certainly will know the difference and will most certainly mention the power advantage.
 
"Perf. differences are greatly overstated."

how could he say this if he don't know the changes that Sony done to their SoC?


the changes Sony made could have been a lot better than the changes that they made so the differences could be bigger than what people think.

just a thought.

People don't want to think about it, they just want someone to tell them that "Everything will be ok," and they'll just accept it that way. He can't know what Sony is up to with their SoC unless there's industrial espionage, and he can't know if their solution actually makes up the performance gap. This stuff is PR, and if people are taking it as more than that, they're kidding themselves. Only actual comparisons or statements from devs will tell the real story, and who know when or if we'll see that.

"Overstated" even in and of itself is such a wonderfully ambiguous term that no one can ever prove it was wrong. Even if there's a 720p vs. 1080p or 30fps vs. 60fps performance split on games, all someone has to say is that the game, "Still looks and plays great; the difference is overstated." It's just PR, like so many statements in this industry.
 

Mrbob

Member
That's what panello implied - read what I quoted again. How else could he arrive at the conclusion that a 40% difference in paper specs will be balanced out in the end?

Yeah, I read it. Seemed like a more general comment to me as he admits he has no idea how the PS4 is fully designed.
 

Begaria

Member
*sigh*

That "addtional" in Albert's tweet will set off Misterx's liveblog like wildfire. I really wish he just said "It doesn't have one." It reads like there is one, but there won't be an additional one. I understand what he means, but it's going to be taken SO out of context. Still, I appreciate the digging he's done and doing.
 

JCizzle

Member
Seems overly defensive to keep saying "performance differences are overstated" at the end of every point. It becomes watered down and seems like a concerted marketing push.
 
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