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Jubern
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(Yesterday, 03:11 AM)
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I searched a bit and I don't think there's been a topic on this yet.

So basically, the Prime Minister Shinzo Abe's governing party, the Liberal Democratic Party, is pulling all the stops to pass a secrecy bill that would allow the government to design pretty much everything they want as a state secret. Trying to leak these secrets or look for info about them (which there is no list for, so you might be doing so unknowingly) can get yet up to a 5 or 10 year prison sentence, depending of your status. Basically: the death of investigative journalism and, if you want to push further, the creation of an atmosphere of fear for anyone opening his damn mouth.

The Japanese government already has a terrible track record when it comes to cover-ups: stuff like the pollution of the town of Minamata in the 60, the infected blood incident of the 90s, the whistleblower that warned them about the state of the Fukushima plant in 2002... So it's no wonder that, beyond the simply ridiculous scope of the law, there aren't a lot of people willing to let the government have their way with this. A heavyweight of the ruling party already said the other day that anyone that was against the secrecy bill was just a terrorist. Welp.

Despite not having done any significant structural reform since he came back to power last year, and despite all the debates about women position, natality and stuff, this is for some reason the first big "achievement" Abe is striving for this hard.

For a better writeup on what all of this entails, I recommend you read the following article on Japan Times, from Jake Adelstein:
http://www.japantimes.co.jp/news/201.../#.Up6My42gjEo

The first rule of the pending state secrets bill is that a secret is a secret. The second rule is that anyone who leaks a secret and/or a reporter who makes it public via a published report or broadcast can face up to 10 years in prison. The third rule is that there are no rules as to which government agencies can declare information to be a state secret and no checks on them to determine that they don’t abuse the privilege; even defunct agencies can rule their information to be secret. The fourth rule is that anything pertaining to nuclear energy is a state secret, which means there will no longer be any problems with nuclear power in this country because we won’t know anything about it. And what we don’t know can’t hurt us.

The law has been compared to the pre-World War II Peace Preservation Law, which was used to arrest and jail any individual who opposed the government party line. “Japan already has a very weak freedom of information act which this will cripple,” said Yutaka Saito, a member of the Japan In-House Lawyers Association task force. “The bill takes everything bad about national security laws in the U.S. and then removes all the safeguards and checks.”

The law is seeing pretty strong opposition here, but unsurprisingly no demos. Most of the press organizations and the population are against the bill, which doesn't stop the government from going with it. The other day, they got the bill to pass through the lower house of the Diet right after the day-long debate broadcasted live on public television ended, as if it was nothing but a smokescreen.
There's another debate right now, I'm watching it. The upper house has been examining the bill for almost a week.

What are your thoughts on this, GAF?
Last edited by Jubern; Yesterday at 03:41 AM.
Abounder
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(Yesterday, 03:18 AM)
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Typical of Japan's disgusting leadership, look at this gem of a quote from their deputy PM:

"The German Weimar constitution changed, without being noticed, to the Nazi German constitution. Why don't we learn from their tactics?"

It's no wonder why Japan is hated by all their neighbors. They're becoming the Israel of the Far East in that sense
Jubern
Member
(Yesterday, 03:23 AM)
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Ah yes, I had totally forgot about this. It's getting insane.

Ah, the communist party is pulling out the petition card. Signed by over 200 recognized people in Japan, including Hayao Miyazaki, a Nobel Prize winner and an UN inspector for human's rights.
Abe is just brushing it off.
Zaptruder
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(Yesterday, 03:25 AM)
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Fuckin' hell Japan. Get some political awareness and stop sticking your heads in the sand. Stopping ultra-conservative right-wingers seeking to go all big-brother on your asses is something that is more important than whatever flavour of the month trend you have yourselves stuck in.
Angelus Errare
this looks like one of those Final Fantasy games lionhead always makes
(Yesterday, 03:26 AM)
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'Jurpan!
Dresden
on the run
(Yesterday, 03:27 AM)
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The first rule of the pending state secrets bill is that a secret is a secret. The second rule is that anyone who leaks a secret and/or a reporter who makes it public via a published report or broadcast can face up to 10 years in prison. The third rule is that there are no rules as to which government agencies can declare information to be a state secret and no checks on them to determine that they don’t abuse the privilege; even defunct agencies can rule their information to be secret. The fourth rule is that anything pertaining to nuclear energy is a state secret, which means there will no longer be any problems with nuclear power in this country because we won’t know anything about it. And what we don’t know can’t hurt us.

Wow.
Trojita
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(Yesterday, 03:30 AM)
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Originally Posted by Abounder

Typical of Japan's disgusting leadership, look at this gem of a quote from their deputy PM:

"The German Weimar constitution changed, without being noticed, to the Nazi German constitution. Why don't we learn from their tactics?"

It's no wonder why Japan is hated by all their neighbors. They're becoming the Israel of the Far East in that sense

That's why they are hated by their neighbors? I'm sure it has little to nothing to do with this since it wouldn't even affect non-japanese.
Valhelm
contribute something
(Yesterday, 03:33 AM)
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Originally Posted by Abounder

Typical of Japan's disgusting leadership, look at this gem of a quote from their deputy PM:

"The German Weimar constitution changed, without being noticed, to the Nazi German constitution. Why don't we learn from their tactics?"

Holy. Fucking. Shit.
Nils
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(Yesterday, 03:35 AM)
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Completely fucked up. The nuclear provision is especially worrisome considering Fukushima. The veil of secrecy in handling the situation there is awful seeing as the disaster could affect more than just Japan.

I don't want to turn this into a US bashing thing, but doesn't America have a similar mechanism in place? Recently read about it in this Cracked article. It's under number three. A comedy site might not be the best source, but this is where I learned about it.

Meet the state secrets privilege, the government's official "get out of jail" card. It can be pulled out any time the president damn well likes in order to protect the things his administration deems secret. When the privilege is called, the case is immediately dropped ... no questions asked. Now, again, we can totally understand the use of a policy like this: For instance, terrorists don't need to be told that the government knows where they're hiding. Sadly, you don't get this kind of power without abusing it.

Last edited by Nils; Yesterday at 03:42 AM.
Abounder
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(Yesterday, 03:36 AM)
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Originally Posted by Trojita

That's why they are hated by their neighbors? I'm sure it has little to nothing to do with this since it wouldn't even affect non-japanese.

No, just one example. The Japanese leadership's stance on comfort women, territory claims, militarization, Fukushima, etc. piss off their neighbors if not the world. But to be fair everyone in the Far East hates eachother
Skinpop
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(Yesterday, 03:37 AM)
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Originally Posted by Jubern

What are your thoughts on this, GAF?

people don't trust politicians in japan, they've lost faith in politics and therefore also any interest in it. People just don't care anymore.
Dryk
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(Yesterday, 03:37 AM)
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Take note: When someone like Abe runs for Prime Minister you do not vote for them. It doesn't matter how good their economic plan looks on the surface.
Skinpop
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(Yesterday, 03:40 AM)
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Originally Posted by Dryk

Take note: When someone like Abe runs for Prime Minister you do not vote for them. It doesn't matter how good their economic plan looks on the surface.

yeah, from the first time when he was prime minister I always thought he appeared more as a yakuza than someone committed to serving his people.

Thing is that japan lack any kind of viable leader, they've changed prime minster seven times the last seven years. There is no faith in politics from the population and because of that nothing of importance gets done and shit like this slips through. Every time I visit japan I hear talk about these amazing reforms that actually could change things like progressively subsidizing educational costs for families with more than one child(50% for second, free for third) but they never get implemented which is a sad thing because there are still some good ideas around.
Last edited by Skinpop; Yesterday at 03:44 AM.
Dryk
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(Yesterday, 03:41 AM)
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Also I just found this from the secretary-general

“If you want to realize your ideas and principles, you should follow the democratic principles, by gaining as much support as you can. I think the strategy of merely shouting one’s opinions at the top of one’s lungs is not so fundamentally different from an act of terrorism.”

http://www.japantimes.co.jp/news/201.../#.Up6WEeJgwWR
KuroNeeko
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(Yesterday, 03:42 AM)
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Originally Posted by Dryk

Take note: When someone like Abe runs for Prime Minister you do not vote for them. It doesn't matter how good their economic plan looks on the surface.

You don't vote for a Prime Minister, they are put into office by the ruling party. The best you can do is vote for a given party at a local level.
Jubern
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(Yesterday, 03:43 AM)
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Originally Posted by Skinpop

yeah, from the first time when he was prime minister I always thought he appeared more as a yakuza than someone committed to serving his people.

Thing is that japan lack any kind of viable leadership, they've changed prime minster seven times the last seven years. There is no faith in politics from the population and because of that nothing of importance gets done and shit like shit slips through.

I get weird look from people here when I tell them I remember the names of all the Prime Ministers since Koizumi. Because they don't... And I can't really blame them for it.
Mxrz
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(Yesterday, 03:44 AM)
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Japan remains our bros, and we will continue to support our broship. It is up to the Japanese people to decide their own internal Brodeo.
ucdawg12
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(Yesterday, 03:53 AM)
this bill has been encouraged by the US

The bill, which is backed by the U.S. and forms part of Abe’s broader push to strengthen security, offers a vague definition of state secrets, and opponents say it could lead to the sort of suppression of speech seen before World War II. The law stiffens penalties for bureaucrats who leak secrets and for the journalists who report them, and broadens the information covered from defense to diplomacy, terrorism and safety threats.

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2013-1...larity-1-.html
VanillaCakeIsBurning
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(Yesterday, 03:57 AM)
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Originally Posted by ucdawg12

this bill has been encouraged by the US



http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2013-1...larity-1-.html

I can only imagine that they will attempt to implement it in their own country in some fashion. Or perhaps it already has and I just haven't heard about it yet.
Somnid
Corporate Ballwasher
Ignore everything I say
(Yesterday, 03:58 AM)
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So when these secrets inevitably get out regardless and are published by foreign press is it punishable to retweet them?
Zoc
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(Yesterday, 03:59 AM)
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I have to get out of this fucking country.

I love the Japanese people, but honestly, the one thing about them that I hate is their political apathy. Even worse are the rock-headed idiots who keep voting for the same old crooks year after year.
vas_a_morir
It ain't a request, bitch.
(Yesterday, 04:07 AM)
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As mentioned in the Best Korea thread"
Abe's party (Jimin-Tou), no matter how many women they hire at top positions to revamp their stale image, still has the goal of military autonomy of Japan. Since the 50's, they've looked at the pre-occupation Japanese militaristic society with a bit of nostalgic longing, it seems.

The problem, of course, is that the US military is EXTREMELY popular in Japan. According to one special (I'll try to find it) I saw with famed Journalist Akira Ikegami, approval of American occupation is near 90%. It's hard to get 90% of any group to agree to anything, so that's significant.

In fact, check out this video..http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MSZTm7irs4s. it's a pro US military video. Read the comments and look at the number of likes.

It says: "Understand in only 5 minutes! What would happen if the US military bases disappeared from Okinawa?"

The text reads::

"The reason why the Chinese posed no military threat to us... is because the American military bases were there."

"Because the US military bases are there, there is no danger."

"Because the US military bases are there, we are protected."

And so on, with heroic tales of how the US has protected Japan over the years. Likes? 1370. Dislikes? 135. To be honest, I've never seen a more approving piece of work regarding the US military since WWII propaganda.

So, Abe and his buddies have a super uphill battle to wage if he wishes to re-militarize Japan. So, stuff like this is a good way to curtail public opinion, if you cant change it through persuasion.
Last edited by vas_a_morir; Yesterday at 04:10 AM.
King Boo
Member
(Yesterday, 04:12 AM)
guys don't worry, japan can't raise an army with their declining population.....unless...they are trying to secretly build gundams!!!!!

someone get me nsa on the line, we need them to listen to their secret gundam making plans. oh wait they will probably see this post, so thanks in advance
wonzo
Ascending the eternal
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(Yesterday, 04:20 AM)
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Abe and his ilk sound like fascist pieces of shit. Disgusting.
Skinpop
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(Yesterday, 04:20 AM)
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Originally Posted by King Boo

guys don't worry, japan can't raise an army with their declining population.....unless...they are trying to secretly build gundams!!!!!

someone get me nsa on the line, we need them to listen to their secret gundam making plans. oh wait they will probably see this post, so thanks in advance

if that's what it takes to build gundams then I'm all for it.
Juan29.zapata
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(Yesterday, 04:22 AM)
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Originally Posted by Abounder

Typical of Japan's disgusting leadership, look at this gem of a quote from their deputy PM:

"The German Weimar constitution changed, without being noticed, to the Nazi German constitution. Why don't we learn from their tactics?"

It's no wonder why Japan is hated by all their neighbors. They're becoming the Israel of the Far East in that sense

That's terrible. Terrible in anyway you see it. One would think that the mere mention of anything Nazi would cause a controversy.

But this?:

The fourth rule is that anything pertaining to nuclear energy is a state secret, which means there will no longer be any problems with nuclear power in this country because we won’t know anything about it. And what we don’t know can’t hurt us.

This is a fucking outrage, specially after Fukushima and the giant fuck ups they did. Radiated waste could be leaking to the ocean and travelling to the west coast of United States and IT WOULD BE A FUCKING SECRET, because it's nuclear-energy related.

And since it's backed by the US, the UN, as always, has its hands tied.
Jubern
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(Today, 01:10 PM)
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Update : The ruling coalition forced the bill through the Upper House despite the heavy protestation of the opposition (we're talking people almost brawling here).

It could pass as law any moment now, nothing stopping this train I fear.

Fuck.
AlexMogil
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(Today, 01:17 PM)
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We live in a very strange time.
Dynamite Shikoku
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(Today, 01:17 PM)
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Welp. Guess we won't be getting any more news on Fukushima.
Purkake4
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(Today, 01:18 PM)
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GG, you had a good 60 years, Japan.
midramble
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(Today, 01:23 PM)
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Interesting point on Japanese political apathy, with all my japanese friends and even my japanese girlfriend, I heard about this from GAF. None of them seem to even be aware of this...
jimi_dini
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(Today, 01:24 PM)
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Originally Posted by Juan29.zapata

This is a fucking outrage, specially after Fukushima and the giant fuck ups they did. Radiated waste could be leaking to the ocean and travelling to the west coast of United States and IT WOULD BE A FUCKING SECRET, because it's nuclear-energy related.

Not only that. What about a major increase of cancer patients in Japan? That's also nuclear-energy related and therefore a secret.

And since it's backed by the US, the UN, as always, has its hands tied.

Someone please tell me what those "western values" are, that are so superior?
EVOL 100%
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(Today, 01:25 PM)
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Originally Posted by Jubern

Update : The ruling coalition forced the bill through the Upper House despite the heavy protestation of the opposition (we're talking people almost brawling here).

It could pass as law any moment now, nothing stopping this train I fear.

Fuck.

Jesus fucking Christ
Juan29.zapata
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(Today, 01:28 PM)
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Originally Posted by Jubern

Update : The ruling coalition forced the bill through the Upper House despite the heavy protestation of the opposition (we're talking people almost brawling here).

It could pass as law any moment now, nothing stopping this train I fear.

Fuck.

Well shit.

Do you have any source?

EDIT: Guess it's this one: http://www.japantimes.co.jp/news/201.../#.UqBxycRDvh4
Gunsmithx
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(Today, 01:32 PM)
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Lord almighty this law seems frighting in what it could do...
Acorn
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(Today, 01:36 PM)
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This seems like an governments wet dream. Something damaging to your political chances about to be reported? Make it a secret!
ЯAW
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(Today, 01:39 PM)
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Originally Posted by Somnid

So when these secrets inevitably get out regardless and are published by foreign press is it punishable to retweet them?

Gotta start build China like firewalls. You know, so people don't accidentally incriminate themselves.
Last edited by ЯAW; Today at 01:49 PM.
sprsk
force push the doodoo rock
(Today, 01:40 PM)
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It's fucking disgusting.
Darklord
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(Today, 01:47 PM)
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Wow. Wooow. That is fucked! That's some fascist shit.
Jubern
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(Today, 01:49 PM)
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Originally Posted by Juan29.zapata

Well shit.

Do you have any source?

EDIT: Guess it's this one: http://www.japantimes.co.jp/news/201.../#.UqBxycRDvh4

Yeah sorry, I forgot to give a source since it's actually everywhere on the news and Twitter since 4 pm.

Originally Posted by midramble

Interesting point on Japanese political apathy, with all my japanese friends and even my japanese girlfriend, I heard about this from GAF. None of them seem to even be aware of this...

As a language teacher I'm always looking for interesting topics to discuss with the students who have a decent grasp of English, and often chose news topics as material. Seeing how almost none of them knew about that was seriously depressing. I studied Japanese sociology for some time now and know about political apathy and everything, but COME ON.

This is definitely making bigger waves than usual, but it's bound to calm down just like the nuclear protests did...
Last edited by Jubern; Today at 01:52 PM.
OminoMichelin
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(Today, 02:07 PM)
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This is beyond fucked up. Looks like a law made just so that japan doesn't look bad on the neighbouring countries for the whole fukushima fiasco. And a boon to nuclear business as a bonus.
In a few years people will go "Oh yeah that happened, but now it's solved right? Nobody talks about it anymore"
IceCold
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(Today, 02:09 PM)
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There should be riots over this. This is fucked up.

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