NeoGAF

Originally Posted by DynamicG

Didn't you just agree about subjectivity of libraries and yet here you are forgetting that like a few posts later? What if those 22 roms WERE enough for those people or wsippel in this case, just like the Vita library isn't appealing to some?

I was just talking about subjectivity, yes. That doesn't change the fact that '22 free games' is rather misleading when you're actually talking about some Virtual Console releases, not actual 3DS retail games.

If those ROMs were 'enough' for people then, good for them. It's not really an ongoing point in favour of the 3DS though, is it?

Originally Posted by neojubei

Game demos have a time limit? Wow

Limited number of uses. Usually 30 but sometimes 15 or less. It is pretty stupid but I haven't actually hit the limit on anything yet. It's mostly way more times than I would need to play any demo (which actually makes it even dumber and more insulting in a way).

Originally Posted by jgmo870

I don't think it's that smaller, just more segmented, if you look at the whole west and not just NA and EU separately. Two recent examples - P4G shipped 300k+ in Japan, and it did 700k+ worldwide, Dragon's Crown probably shipped close to 300-400k in Japan, and it did 800K worldwide.

Persona 4 Golden, I think, part of the reason it did so well is that it is essentially the Vita's killer app, and that had everything to do with its exclusivity. If it was available on the 3DS or PS3 then sales might have just been split + extra porting costs, but that's my baseless conjecture :P Dragon's Crown though is a good case for multiplatform development but you also have to consider that Sony went out of their way to make porting between PS3 and Vita relatively painless for developers and that's why you see that strategy happen more than say 3DS/Vita.

Originally Posted by SmokyDave

I was just talking about subjectivity, yes. That doesn't change the fact that '22 free games' is rather misleading when you're actually talking about some Virtual Console releases, not actual 3DS retail games.

If those ROMs were 'enough' for people then, good for them. It's not really an ongoing point in favour of the 3DS though, is it?

Half of them are not virtual console games and are exclusive to the 3DS(and GBA), unless they started selling GBA stuff when I was out. You are both being hyperbolic to prove a point.

Originally Posted by MomoPufflet

Limited number of uses. Usually 30 but sometimes 15 or less. It is pretty stupid but I haven't actually hit the limit on anything yet. It's mostly way more times than I would need to play any demo (which actually makes it even dumber and more insulting in a way).

I played almost 20hrs of the Metal Gear Solid demo and still have over 20 uses left. Same with Bravely Default. The limits are fine.

I was disappointed with the screen personally, i hoped that the jaggies wouldn't be noticeable. But it was that bad that i just sold the handheld off pretty darn fast, the games just got ruined by it.

It also didn't help that demo's of games took ages to hit the shop and where incredible short to keep me interested in the handheld, there was pretty much no free content besides some terrible television shows that lasted for a few minutes each week.

I kept on changing in every game between 3D and 2D constantly, 2D looked boring and the screen looked smaller, 3D was a lot better but the jaggies just drove me nuts which result me to switch towards 2D again, etc etc.

I bought the zelda edition as i never finished zelda OOT on the original n64. Did finished it at some point. Never bothered with the master quest, felt like a drag to do everything once again.

Bought mario later on, but found out that it couldn't entertain me for long. It felt like a collection of mini game levels instead of a real polished game ( my last mario was the 3D mario on the n64, so it has been a while ). I rushed through the levels but found out that i had to collect all the "stars if i remember correct" in order to unlock further levels and then just bailed out on it, as i didn't wanted to do the same levels over again to find some hidden star somewhere. It basically started to feel like a grind.

Sold my 3DS and bought a 3DS XL but figured out after i used that for a while, that the games just felt really like half efforts in general. I bought resident evil because it would be a showcase piece on the visual solution. The jaggies really destroyed walls in 3D, the main char also featured 3D ghosting in dark places, which just became frustrating all around. 2D the game was solid visually, but frankly after having that extra dimension its hard to go back to 2D, so the switching started again.

Sold it after i hitted a few area's futher in resident evil, because i was more fighting the combat controls + screen, then that i paid any attention towards the game itself.

It didn't help that luigi mansion was delayed also, which resulted me in dropping the handheld pretty darn fast.

I will probably wait on there next generation handheld and see if they fixed the screen problems to give it another try.

Originally Posted by KHlover

I played almost 20hrs of the Metal Gear Solid demo and still have over 20 uses left. Same with Bravely Default. The limits are fine.

Yeah, I haven't had a problem. But at the same time, that's what makes having the limit on there at all so silly.

Originally Posted by DynamicG

Half of them are not virtual console games and are exclusive to the 3DS(and GBA), unless they started selling GBA stuff when I was out. You are both being hyperbolic to prove a point.

You think this statement:

"22 ROMs as a 'sorry' for a huge price cut doesn't really stack up to the Cross-Buy system in my opinion."

is hyperbolic?

Why?

It has great games and that's all that matters.

Originally Posted by KHlover

I played almost 20hrs of the Metal Gear Solid demo and still have over 20 uses left. Same with Bravely Default. The limits are fine.

...What? My question is how have you spent 20 hours on the Snake Eater 3D demo?

Originally Posted by SmokyDave

You think this statement:

"22 ROMs as a 'sorry' for a huge price cut doesn't really stack up to the Cross-Buy system in my opinion."

is hyperbolic?

Why?

You are right, that statement is not hyperbolic. Perhaps I was conflating your earlier hyperbole into that statement.

The 3DS is a poor OS with amazing games. You can only imagine how better Nintendo would be if made OS/online stuff good as your games.

Im not even close to disappointed with my XL. I give the UI and loading times a pass simply because I never expected more. The 3d effect taxes my eyes so I dont use it often. But I do turn it on at points in games to marvel at the effect. But the games have been entertaining. Playing through zelda right now. Already did the OoT remake. Mario kart has been fun and animal crossing became an addictive routine. As far as a gaming device its been great. I go through mii finder occasionally fod the hats and collect puzzle pieces when I get occasional street passes. Its something I dont have to care or think too much about. Just play games and let the good times roll my friend.

Hahahahaha you think 3DS has shit battery life compared to your iPhone? Try playing a battery intensive game on full screen brightness for more than two hours. Family emergency? Sorry ma, was hammering my thumbs on a screen playing a poor port of GTA III.

Originally Posted by Margalis

Because the 3DS has a much larger install base, in part because it costs less, which in part comes from the hardware not being as advanced as the Vita.

These things are all related. It's not like Nintendo couldn't make a more powerful portable. The fact that Nintendo portables aren't too expensive is a large part of the reason they have the libraries they do.

That's why it doesn't make sense to say "the hardware is bad but the software is good", or to say the reverse for Vita. Part of the reason Vita software is bad is that it costs too much, nobody bought it, so nobody makes games for it. People act like creating more powerful takes some sort of incredible skill - it doesn't. It's a business decision with a lot of factors involved.

You can't have the best of everything. Sony have to offset the huge manufacturing cost of the vita to the memory card, and the dev cost of an AAA original title for the vita (like golden abyss) is too high.

Sony discovered this now, which is why shahid is chasing those indie titles, or those console ports like borderland 2 and god of war collection.

Not a new owner, but I'm disappointed with my 3DS everyday. Only reason I haven't sold it yet is Pokemon and catching up on games that are too expensive.

Originally Posted by SmokyDave

Bravely Default has microtransactions.
Making a PSN id isn't a paid service either.
22 ROMs as a 'sorry' for a huge price cut doesn't really stack up to the Cross-Buy system in my opinion.

Bravely Default is not first party, unlike Gran Turismo, Forza or Ryse. And the 22 free games were 10 NES games, 10 GBA games, one DSiWare game and one 3DS game. On top of the AR Games, Face Raiders, StreetPass games and the Game & Watch title preinstalled on every system.

The DS was so much better? And yet the first party output on 3DS is already so much better.

Originally Posted by Burning Vigor Attack

It has great games and that's all that matters.

This X 1000. The games are awesome and varied. I fought so hard to not get a 3DS because I thought my DS was going to carry me, oh how wrong I was. There are a enough games to play even if you're not a fan of Nintendo staple games.

I agree about the 3DS ergonomics. It's just a horrible mess. Glossy texture gets all mushy after a while. 3 different colors/layers, the corners hurt, battery life is horrible, stylus on the back, extendable stylus (why?), buttons back to original DS/lite mushiness as well as small screen and bad CPP.

That's why I never buy a nintendo portable console at launch. I know there will be a new itteration within 1-2 years. I love my DSi, feels so good, as well as the 3DSxl, nice screen, bigger, more comfy, especially with the CPP, and clicky buttons.

Never cared about multitasking or the UI, only the games so I'm not underwhelmed at all. It has the best library between Vita, WiiU, Xone, PS4 by far. I wasn't ever hyped about 3D and like many others I never use it.

I'm a happy camper. Games are all I care, and multiplayer in MonHun works well enough

I'm always kind of taken back by the impressions of the games. It seems to a lot of fans of the system the games are above reproach. I've never seen that with other consoles or handheld systems. It would be like someone criticizing Killzone mercenaries and me saying no, it's unquestionably great and frankly, you look foolish for even bringing it up. I would be ridiculed for that, but it's a frequent theme in 3ds discussions. Not everybody likes the software.

I've said this before, but I would have bought a 3DS already if it wasn't such a horrible piece of hardware. Amazing software keeps tempting me, but then I actually pick one up and cannot bring myself to spend any money on actually owning it. It just feels so terrible.

Eventually I'll have to buy one to play through ALBW and SMT 4 though... :(

Originally Posted by Wynnebeck

Not a new owner, but I'm disappointed with my 3DS everyday. Only reason I haven't sold it yet is Pokemon and catching up on games that are too expensive.

As a fan of Paper Mario I was disappointed with my 3DS too :/

I feel OVERWHELMED by my 3DS XL. I bought it for my girlfriend with no intentions of caring about it (have a 360 and a gaming PC), yet I have completed 4 3DS games in around 6 months. I have at least 5 or 6 more 3DS games on my list to play, and the entire DS library to choose from as I never had a DS.

The hardware hasn't disappointed me, either. Though I can admit a higher resolution would be nice. I have not had one big issue with my 3DS yet.

Originally Posted by pickle

I'm always kind of taken back by the impressions of the games. It seems to a lot of fans of the system the games are above reproach. I've never seen that with other consoles or handheld systems. It would be like someone criticizing Killzone mercenaries and me saying no, it's unquestionably great and frankly, you look foolish for even bringing it up. I would be ridiculed for that, but it's a frequent theme in 3ds discussions. Not everybody likes the software.

Yeah, that's called subjectivity. A lot of people do like it though, I daresay more than Killzone Mercenary.

I agree with everything the OP said. If only Soby could make the hardware and Nintendo produce the software. Jesus, that would be amazing.

BTW why is it that I can't go home on certain apps? it worka sometimes while other times it doesn't. I know the button is fine because I get the icon telling me I can't go home right now. It usually happens in the eshop.

Originally Posted by DynamicG

You are right, that statement is not hyperbolic. Perhaps I was conflating your earlier hyperbole into that statement.

Eh, that's fair enough. I can be a little bombastic on occasion.

Originally Posted by wsippel

Bravely Default is not first party, unlike Gran Turismo, Forza or Ryse. And the 22 free games were 10 NES games, 10 GBA games, one DSiWare game and one 3DS game. On top of the AR Games, Face Raiders, StreetPass games and the Game & Watch title preinstalled on every system.

I don't really see what you're getting at with the microtransaction angle, to be honest.

I'm still struggling to see what relevance the ambassador package has too. That offer was for a limited period of time and was only offered because of a savage price-cut that shafted early adopters.

The ongoing Cross-Buy system is more valuable to me as that is actually in effect as we speak. I understand that PS+ is a contentious issue (as it's essentially a randomised rental subscription service), but that too offers me value far in excess of anything Nintendo have ever done.

At first, I was (poor hardware, poor use of 3D, not that many games), but now, well, it's my most played system...
I remember how impress I was by the Vita when I first got it+some awesome games, but as much as I love the system and I vastly prefer it over the 3DS (specs and hardware wise) most of my 2013 favorite games are on the 3DS and they keep coming...

I put up with all the shit factors of the 3DS because it has a couple of games I desperately wanted to play. If it didn't have Ace Attorney 5 and Pokemon then I probably wouldn't have bothered with it.

It is indeed a horrible device in almost every respect, with the exception of its software library, and even that's frustrated by the moronic and anti-consumer region lock. That said, honestly, I don't think I love most of its cherished games as much as some people, but I think that's more to do with my issues with Nintendo's first party offerings of late and is entirely subjective.

That said, when third parties have supported the system with key games, it has been very good to me. Ace Attorney: Dual Destinies might be my GOTY, Soul Hackers is great, I can't wait for SMT IV to come out over here (i.e. when NoE deigns us worthy). Also, I will enjoy Persona Q when it eventually releases in 2020.

In short, OP, you buy 3DS in spite of the actual system itself being horrible. Nintendo has locked down a good software library, and if you want to play those great games you just have to put up with the hardware.

The games keep me on the platform, but yeah, the hardware is a bit lackluster. Especially after buying a Vita and playing games on that OLED screen it has.

I sold my JP 3DS LL (XL) after a couple of months. I basically didn't like anything about the system aside from it having some excellent games, but playing even those I tired of the low res pretty quickly (coupled with the rest of the hardware problems, like the grip or the low sound).

I can't seem to be able to get into mobile gaming, the Vita has little to offer, and the 3DS is weak... I'm out of handhelds this gen.

I still love my OG day one 3ds aqua blue
I don't like the OS tough
I love the library at the end

my favourite console in the last years for sure

Originally Posted by SmokyDave

I don't really see what you're getting at with the microtransaction angle, to be honest.

I can only assume that you didn't read the post I replied to then.

I'm still struggling to see what relevance the ambassador package has too. That offer was for a limited period of time and was only offered because of a savage price-cut that shafted early adopters.

The ongoing Cross-Buy system is more valuable to me as that is actually in effect as we speak. I understand that PS+ is a contentious issue (as it's essentially a randomised rental subscription service), but that too offers me value far in excess of anything Nintendo have ever done.

Cross-Buy only makes sense if you actually have the same games on more than one platform, something that rarely happens on Nintendo hardware. I have exactly two games that would benefit from the feature, namely Zen Pinball and Mighty Switch Force. Nothing else in my collection is on both Wii U and 3DS. It's certainly nice to have, and it makes a lot of sense on Sony platforms, but on Nintendo platforms? Not so much.

Also, a price cut doesn't "shaft" early adopters. Every electronic device gets price cuts, everybody knew it would happen sooner or later. It always happens. And I only paid ~€180 for my 3DS at launch (it was €220 with a game pretty much everywhere in Germany), so the price cut didn't even affect me in any way or shape.

Originally Posted by Alienous

Hmm. I couldn't name 5 'good' 3DS titles myself.

While this is a bit of hyperbole.(or extremely stringent taste)

Originally Posted by To Far Away Times

Its got a tremendous software line up though...

So is this.

I think I can list about 10 good games on the 3DS. I don't know that I consider that "tremendous." Though I guess that depends on what you compare it to.

Trollolololololol. I have a Vita and 3DS XL. I played Persona4 Golden all the way though and a handful of other games on vita partially. 3DS I play at least AT LEAST 3 times a week. Always a new game coming out every 2-3 weeks.

I download something before I leave work so when I get home it is ready for me. All wrapped up in a gift no less.

To each his own but the OP sounds VERY VERY picky.

Originally Posted by BomberMouse

Long story short, got a 3DS not too long ago and I'm incredibly disappointed by it. It get's so much praise but there's so much wrong with this console it's amazing. Everything about it is extremely underwhelming, from hardware to software (OS). Some annoying stuff off the top of my head:

• Archaic download system. Can't download and play at the same time, either I'm stuck on the eShop or I have to close my console.
• Horrible account system, why are passwords for my CC between 4 and 8 characters? Please don't tell me nintendo stores them as plain text. Can't think of any other reason to limit password length.
• eShop is awful to navigate and to use.
• UI is horrible. Ugly and horribly inconsistent. How come I can't fully use the OS without the stylus? Why sometimes B takes me back but other times not? Why I can't use the home button sometims? What is the deal with the inconsistent buttons all over the place? etc.
• It's slow. Not dead slow but orders of magnitude slower than the competition.
• They try to squeeze every penny out of you! There's nothing free, they sell you clocks and notepads. Even demos have a limited number of uses.
• Multitasking is a joke.
• Region Lock.
• Hardware design is awful. The whole purpose of the clamshell design is pointless when the console doesn't close completely. The damn touch screen is a joke and requires you to use a protector since the stylus damages it way too easy. That damn volume slider is a terrible idea and it's too easy to hit by accident, buttons feel very cheap, etc.
• The ergonomics are terrible. The original GBA was the last decent console design by nintendo which felt right.
• Terrible battery life, probably the worst battery life out of any handheld out there.

I don't even want to talk about the stupid account system or the horrible, horrible screen. It has a worse screen than the PSP had in 2005. 3D games look so bad on a XL.

Any other new owner disappointed by it? iOS gaming lacks some decent input methods but it gets everything else so damn right.

valid points. I'm sure most owners feel the same way. Good thing there are games for it though

Originally Posted by Crimsonsky

While this is a bit of hyperbole.(or extremely stringent taste)



So is this.

I think I can list about 10 good games on the 3DS. I don't know that I consider that "tremendous." Though I guess that depends on what you compare it to.

I wouldn't draw an equivalency between those statements at all. Of course I could also list like 50 good games on 3DS so what do I know.

Originally Posted by SteveWD40

Yeah, it's like, I get why people love the 3DS games, but they are just not for me. I would take Hotline Miami, Spelunky and even exclusives like KZM over Zelda and Fire Emblem any day.

I don't play games at my desk so the indie supports just makes it for me. I am happy enough with Freedom Unite that I don't miss the new MH and having arguably the best MGS (PW) is also nice.

I get that there are some who disagree though, but it comes down to taste.

Personally I disagree simply because I own a PC and I'd rather play Hotline Miami, Spelunky etc there. There aren't many amazing, exclusive Vita titles, and certainly nowhere near the amount that are on 3DS.

I'm not sure if it's different for those who have never had a normal DS like myself, but I feel completely overwhelmed with the amount of games I want to play.

But I don't even think that matters because all I've played is A Link Between Worlds and Super Mario 3D Land (which Nintendo gave me for free - just for registering) and they're both pretty amazing. Zelda especially. Also it took less than 20 minutes for those downloads in sleep mode.

And I don't see myself playing a demo 30 times anyway. E-shop interface isn't great but for me it really doesn't need to be. The games are too damn good to care about anything else.

I'm not sold on 3D but is anyone? Not a problem for me when it's optional.

Originally Posted by BomberMouse

Blah blah blah

The games are fun.

Originally Posted by Gatygun

Bought mario later on, but found out that it couldn't entertain me for long. It felt like a collection of mini game levels instead of a real polished game ( my last mario was the 3D mario on the n64, so it has been a while ). I rushed through the levels but found out that i had to collect all the "stars if i remember correct" in order to unlock further levels and then just bailed out on it, as i didn't wanted to do the same levels over again to find some hidden star somewhere. It basically started to feel like a grind.

Uhm...

Bought a 2DS because of Bravely Default. Last handheld I own is a PSP and I have to say I'm quite enjoying the 2DS. I'm liking the UI, it's simple and straightforward. Sleepmode is helpfull when you want to download games. The web browser isn't that good, but still better than the PSP. The games, well, can't wait to try Fire Emblem and SMT after I'm done pouring hours into Bravely.
All in all, I'm impressed by my new nintendo system considering the last I bought something from them was a green gameboy pocket. Now I expect to be even more surprised when I'll get a Vita, one day.

I bought my 3DS for the games. Other than that, my only real complaints are that it's region locked and no account system.

I refuse to buy anything digital above $5. Senran Kagura was the only exception to this.

Best system out there for people who like and love video games.

Originally Posted by Margalis

Lol. You're the one that spams literally every Nintendo thread with this nonsense. It's like Iwata killed your family.

You've posted like 20 times in this thread alone. I mean...jesus. Find a new schtick.

I'm predominantly a handheld gamer with a distaste for modern Nintendo. Of course I'm in this thread. I'm not in literally every Nintendo thread though. That would take far more effort than I wish to expend.

Nintendo gauged people with the early price of 3DS and offered 20 games. Sony gauges for memory cards. They offer zero games. Let's compare apples to apples here. You can find the most ridiculous reasons to justify your non-stop advocacy. Does it never become boring?

You are fundamentally incapable of comparing apples to apples. This much has been clear for a while.

Originally Posted by wsippel

I can only assume that you didn't read the post I replied to then.

I read it, I just didn't see the relevance of microtransactions.

Cross-Buy only makes sense if you actually have the same games on more than one platform, something that rarely happens on Nintendo hardware. I have exactly two games that would benefit from the feature, namely Zen Pinball and Mighty Switch Force. Nothing else in my collection is on both Wii U and 3DS. It's certainly nice to have, and it makes a lot of sense on Sony platforms, but on Nintendo platforms? Not so much.

Makes a huge difference to me. As an owner of a PS3, PS4 and PS Vita, I'm showered with more 'free' games than one could ever reasonably expect. Upon firing up my PS4, I already had five or six titles ready to go and I hadn't spent an extra penny. It's a fantastic ecosystem to be a part of and it's totally unique within the console market.

Also, a price cut doesn't "shaft" early adopters. Every electronic device gets price cuts, everybody knew it would happen sooner or later. It always happens. And I only paid ~€180 for my 3DS at launch (it was €220 with a game pretty much everywhere in Germany), so the price cut didn't even affect me in any way or shape.

Some are larger than others, and some come sooner than others. That was the motivation for MS offering free games and a controller with the OG Xbox (when they dropped £100 off the price really early), and that was the reason for the ambassador scheme. It wasn't some unprompted act of benevolence, they knew they'd fucked up.

Yea op kinda crappy hardware tbh...but it had the games...so ppl just deal with it l...I have one mainly for fire emblem and Pokemon and RPGs...but yeah i prefer my vita a lot more...getting tired of nintendos slight upgrade is ergonomics and graphically capabilities...gonna give there consoles a break for a while, but 3ds is still worth having in ur library for the exclusives...I dont quite agree with some of the hype here, often these games feel a bit stripped down for me, especially RPGs, but it's the best hanheld platform software wise imo