NeoGAF

Originally Posted by EightBitNate

My point was that it's only an option now, but who's to say it won't become the future of gaming? If it shows any success, what are the chances GT7 takes it a step further and GT8 is full blown pay-to-play?

It it's successful, it means the GT audience, in general, didn't have any problem with it. Will people choose not to buy these credits or grind them, like they always did?
Will it impact GT7, as in, they'll probably make credits harder to grind in-game than previous games? Maybe, but so far, that doesn't seem to be the case.

Originally Posted by ItIsOkBro

Seriously. I like how people are saying, "don't worry they didn't change anything, the grind is just as it was in GT5!" That is quite possibly the worst news for GT6 ever.

The grind in vanilla GT5 was rough. The grind post updates and Seasonal inclusion is not bad at all.

The "grind" in GT6 is similar to post update / seasonal inclusion. I know for fucking sure most people didn't stick with GT5 because that game was slow, the UI sucked, getting cars "delivered" sucked, and it had (and still has) a lot of problems. So most people don't know how easy it is to get money in GT5 now.

A lot of people are speaking out of ignorance in this thread.

There is a WHOLE fucking difference when a game has no mention of MT's and when a game gives you a button to click on to buy a "VIP pass" for double credit earnings.

There is a WHOLE fucking difference when a game has a similar/less of a grind a from the previous game and one that has removed venues for gaining and saving money.

Is it the fact that MT's even exist that you guys hate?

Is it the price of the MT's themselves?

What is it?

30 pages later, it's clear to me more than ever that this is the road gaming is going to follow. Micro-transactions everywhere. The general public either doesn't care or even welcomes them, core gamers are much too involved in their platform wars to speak with a common voice and force publishers to reconsider. It's how locked down systems became popular, it's how subscriptions to access online multiplayer became standard and it's how micro-transactions will end up being included in everything.

Originally Posted by alexandros

30 pages later, it's clear to me more than ever that this is the road gaming is going to follow. Micro-transactions everywhere. The general public either doesn't care or even welcomes them, core gamers are much too involved in their platform wars to speak with a common voice and force publishers to reconsider. It's how locked down systems became popular, it's how subscriptions to access online multiplayer became standard and it's how micro-transactions will end up being included in everything.

If it's intrusive, people will say something about it. Hell, Alex Navarro and Jeff Gerstmann have both said they don't feel like playing FM5 anymore because of how bullshit it is with it's MT's among many other issues.

But how many people have bitched about BF3's MT's?

I may be wrong, but I don't recall people going crazy over time saver packs in that game... that game has been out for a while now too.

Originally Posted by JoeTheBlow

Pay to avoid playing a game.

This baffles me.

The stupid thing is that the game unlocks stuff not for being good, but for playing a lot. I think if you do everything the game has to offer (in this case: Win all "missions", complete carrer, win on every stage, in every difficulty setting / the highest one available), everthing should be unlocked. Unlock through sheer playtime is lazy and bad game design and should be called out anyway. Moreover, if they offer the option to unlock the "work" part of the game using money, it's just shady. No matter if previous games in the series had the same bad design decisions without a way to profit off it, too.

Originally Posted by Yoshi

The stupid thing is that the game unlocks stuff not for being good, but for playing a lot. I think if you do everything the game has to offer (in this case: Win all "missions", complete carrer, win on every stage, in every difficulty setting / the highest one available), everthing should be unlocked. Unlock through sheer playtime is lazy and bad game design and should be called out anyway. Moreover, if they offer the option to unlock the "work" part of the game using money, it's just shady. No matter if previous games in the series had the same bad design decisions without a way to profit off it, too.

GT6 has a "star" system and you can get up to 3 stars per race. 1 for completion, 1 for podium, and 1 for 1st place. So yeah, you kind of do have to get good now.

Originally Posted by phosphor112

The grind in vanilla GT5 was rough. The grind post updates and Seasonal inclusion is not bad at all.

The "grind" in GT6 is similar to post update / seasonal inclusion. I know for fucking sure most people didn't stick with GT5 because that game was slow, the UI sucked, getting cars "delivered" sucked, and it had (and still has) a lot of problems. So most people don't know how easy it is to get money in GT5 now.

A lot of people are speaking out of ignorance in this thread.

There is a WHOLE fucking difference when a game has no mention of MT's and when a game gives you a button to click on to buy a "VIP pass" for double credit earnings.

There is a WHOLE fucking difference when a game has a similar/less of a grind a from the previous game and one that has removed venues for gaining and saving money.

Is it the fact that MT's even exist that you guys hate?

Is it the price of the MT's themselves?

What is it?

It is the fact that it even exist in a $60 title. It is more insulting since the game is an iteration vs. a whole new model so they can't even blame it on "the rising cost of game development".


I bought Forza before I knew, I will not buy GT.

Originally Posted by GTP_Daverytimes

Nope, you are gifted cars as before, credits are as easy to come by as always, and you are never prompted to buy credits.

The non Prompted is a plus. I have more time on my had than Money. I have no Problem Plugging away as usual.

Makes you laugh at the start of the last generation we were getting up in arms about paying a few quid for horse armour. Now they're charging £120 for a car, ridiculous.

Originally Posted by Steroyd

Sad reality is you've either got to learn to live with the ones that don't affect directly/piss you off indirectly (Horse Armour dlc), or just quit that franchise and alot of other games altogether.

If I took your stance on MT's merely existing in games in the same manner as Horse Armour type dlc existing in games I'd probably only have a handful of titles at most for the PS3.

That's true. I'm sorry to say I was complicit in this up to now. I think most of us were. I bought Oblivion, despite the horse amour. It didn't seem so bad at the time.

But then you wake up one day and almost every launch game has microtransactions. There's a car you can buy in a full price game for £120, and there are people saying, with all sincerity, that it's merely a time-saver for busy people. With no thoughts of what that means when you consider where we've come from, and, in all likelihood, where we're going.

This sounds pretty egregious.

Originally Posted by Untalkative_Bunny

Isn't it? it is obvious that every company wants to do this stuff and I really doubt there will be enough blowback to stop it.

Yeah, some of the responses in here are disappointing but not really surprising.

I personally think this kind of blatant stuff may be dropped, at least the extreme case like Forza, kind of like how Season Passes were dropped.

I'm curious as to what publishers will think up next though. Personally I think the only route to go is to raise game prices themselves, the first bump will be to $70.

Originally Posted by glaurung

Yoshida defended the implementation. He said that this option is in the game for people who do not have the time to properly earn the credits.

I can live with that, unless all the menus constantly shove the option into your face.

In the case of GT6 versus Forza I believe GT6 has no cars that you cannot obtain unless you pay real money. All cars can be bought - at least for now - using in-game credits. Whether or not you have those credits is up to you.

And that was a lie, just like when the Forza guys said their e-20 cost $120 because they wanted to keep it valuable and rare while still giving busy people the option to get one. [kinda funny they then turned around and gave every VIP one].

No, the cars are priced that way and micro-transactions included because they want to increase revenue, that is all. All other explanations are just so much PR lies and bullshit.

Yosh saying that was a nice reminder that while likeable, most Sony executives are still businesspeople first and foremost, not gamers. And they are willing to lie to sell just like every other public facing business person.

I'm still glad Cerny hasn't lied or PR'ed us yet because I really do like that guy, Marble Madnes 4ever.

Originally Posted by ItIsOkBro

GT4: rewinning all prize cars (even single race events), b-spec 3x speed
GT5: can't rewin prize cars, b-spec 2x the laps of a-spec, experience blocking...

GT5 also allowed you to control races remotely while you were away. People even had Firefox plugins to manage online B-spec races at some point. GT5 had special online events that gave out a lot of credits and XP, and GT5 had points and XP bonusses for consecutive days of logging in, etc. GT5 had special events that gave out a lot of credits and XP and additional prize cars. And prize cars on your birthday :D (I won a 10 million credit car).

Originally Posted by SmokyDave

Assuming those two statements are true (and I have no reason to doubt to you), that puts me in a pickle. I really don't want to support this paymium trend, but I really, really want to buy this game. I'd written it off as soon as I heard about the MT, but if they're completely unobtrusive and the progression hasn't been altered, I have to wonder if I'm cutting my nose off to spite my face.

Grrr. Principles. Complicated shit.


I've a feeling that will happen anyway, and you won't need to wait a few years to see it.

Buy used in two weeks. Patience is a virtue, my bible told me so.