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WWE has dealt with racism before, but fans are chanting ‘that’s too far'

  • Thread starter Deleted member 47027
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kiguel182

Member
The problem is using racism for cheap heat in 2017. You can't just write that off as "bad guy stuff" anymore, without addressing it and having it be a part of the face getting over the heel, instead of being lazy shock value.

That’s true. But is it really worse than making someone bad just for being foreigner? That was the whole thing with Rusev and Jinder and it seems even lower and cheaper.

They have such a low bar that here at least it was the bad guy being racist instead of the good guy.
 

DeathyBoy

Banned
Now that I think about it, has any of these racist heel angles ended in the racist getting their comeuppance at the end of the feud? I certainly remember Booker getting destroyed by HHH throughout the entirety of that feud.

As much as I want Nakamura to win the championship, it doesn't seem very likely.

Booker T didn't beat Rock and Austin clean before getting to HHH.

Nakamura literally beat WWE's two biggest stars clean recently. On TV. And there's no Goldberg guy waiting in the wings to beat Mahal.
 
HHH once did the nazi march, including the salute and screaming sieg heil at a german house show in the 90s.

So did JBL.

Just to get some heat.

Imagine them doing that today.
 

DeathyBoy

Banned
HHH once did the nazi march, including the salute and screaming sieg heil at a german house show in the 90s.

So did JBL.

Just to get some heat.

Imagine them doing that today.

Jericho kicked a flag and got suspended less than a decade ago.

Vince has probably already got yelled at by sponsors/stockholders. And yelled at the writers thusly.
 
I've seen odd bits on television and YouTube. I'm usually incredulous that people pay for this, that clown-wrestling is a moneymaking concern. Then again, I find the existence of things like soap opera and reality television inexplicable.
I'm curious as to why you find reality TV inexplicable
 
Wake me when Vince dies because the company will never change significantly for the better until that happens. There will be some nice moments here and there but it'll never be overwhelmingly good until Vince goes.

I'll watch the Rumble and 'Mania every year until they cease to exist but they've beaten the rest of my fandom out of me.

It won't change much even then. He and the WWE have been trying to sell "good guy Triple H" to fans for a while now but even just a few years ago, he was feeding "horse jokes" to the commentators to insult Lillian Garcia. He's still the same asshole that he always was.
 

Shauni

Member
Yeah, his priorities seem to be pretty fucked up

This quote struck me:



Ya, I get that it's all scripted, but interesting that this is the thing Meltzer decided to stress. Not how demeaning it is for the victim to be taunted even when it's an act, not how Asian fans in the audience might feel, not whether kids might copy the racial taunting in real life. Worst thing about racism is being called a racist.

You guys are ignoring the context of the quote. He's specifically talking about how he feels sorry for Jinder being in the angle, and that is in reference to him.
 
Jericho kicked a flag and got suspended less than a decade ago.

Vince has probably already got yelled at by sponsors/stockholders. And yelled at the writers thusly.
You’re telling half the story here.

Chris told us about the problems at the WWE live event in Brazil where he kicked the flag and got suspended by WWE.

Jericho thought he was going to get thrown into jail. Jericho said there was a Brazilian colonel who looked like the guy out of Indiana Jones that wanted Jericho's blood. Chris was escorted out of the arena by a police escort to the airport. As Y2J said, Cena thinks he is a star but he had to catch the WWE bus while "I got a flashing lights police escort baby."

Chris seemed annoyed with Vince, as Vince told Y2J he had cost them a decent market in Brazil, and Jericho told Vince that he should have his back. Vince made some calls and got Jericho to Guatemala then back to the US. Chris revealed that Vince suspended him for 30 days and fined him high 5 figures, to which Chris told Vince he would not be coming back.

Triple H called him to explain and Jericho hung up on him. It ended up all getting worked out when Vince dropped the fine to $10,000. To this day, Jericho said that he hasn't paid it.

Don’t fuck with Brazilian military
http://www.wrestlinginc.com/wi/news...s-vince-suspending-him-after-brazil-incident/
 
I have no problem with them having a heel saying racist shit if done well and the heel is going to get what's coming to them but there's a long track record of them not handling it well in the slightest on top of having heels still go over because of their lost sense of what generates heat.

I distinctly recall for weeks on end they'd have the terrorist characters with black masks on running around doing stupid shit like kidnapping wrestlers, and then 9/11 happened and it all stopped the week after. My timeline could be wrong though.


Uh oh, what did I miss?

It was an angle taped days before the London train bombings in 2005, I think it happened the day Smackdown aired but I know this was already covered. Also I'm sure already covered in more detail but I just wanted to say again fuck Moolah. Here's a good collection on why Moolah was human garbage and the role she played in pretty much killing women's wrestling in the U.S.

https://www.reddit.com/r/SquaredCir...tlers_true_colors_series_the_fabulous_moolah/
 

Paracelsus

Member
Ok, listen to this promo

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mwhrp4lGkDI

And tell me that it isn't a worked shoot with Vince smirking backstage.

Also, read this, since apparently TNA has decided this video is too much

Ron Killings: "Cut the music off! Look at you, my sister! They got you out here, caged up like some kinda animal. They got you out here against your own free will, don't they? I know. They are all modern-day PT Barnum's, aren't they You can tell me. You want me to tell you the truth? Wanna know the truth? They are exposing you for their own benefit. They are exposing you for the almighty dollar. How does that make you feel about yourself? Feel good? You wanna know the truth? This ain't nothin' but a damn freak show.

The Truth has taken a stand, my sister. It's time for you to take your stand, and tell everybody the barbaric ways in which you was treated by them. [An das Publikum] Shut the hell up while I'm talking. [Äfft die Stimme der Tänzerin nach.] 'Oh, K-Krush, oh, Mr. Truth, oh, I told you last week, I don't know what you're talkin' about. I love the money they pay me, I make good money. This is not a cage - this is a platform. This is a stage. I'm a dancer! - Dancer, my ass. You are nothing more than a two dollar ho!

What? They done brainwashed you already? I guess they told you that you was gon' be like a big star or something like that. Let me get it - you gon' be the next Destiny's Child, huh? You know what? Your only destiny is a street corner in the damn hood

[Ohrfeige für The Truth]

The truth hurts, doesn't it? But you know what - you ain't felt nothin' yet."

[Killings öffnet seinen Gürtel und will auf die Tänzerin losgehen, doch Monty Brown erscheint in der Halle und geht dazwischen. Ein Brawl bricht aus, der Killings in den Backstagebereich drängt, während auch Rick Steamboat erscheint.]

Ricky Steamboat: "Ron or is it— or is it Ron 'The Truth'... or whatever you call yourself right now, it really doesn't even matter to me. But you've certainly got my attention. You can't handle the truth is what the fans are saying. You've certainly got my attention. What's that? If there's something that you want to say about them— and I've been listening to you talk here for the last couple of weeks. If there's something you want to say about them, well at least come down here and have the balls to say it to my face.

[Killings kehrt in die Halle zurück.]

Look son..."

Ron Killings: "I ain't nobodys son. If you talk to me, talk to me with some damn respect."

Ricky Steamboat: "Truth, Ron, whatever you call yourself. If you want me to give you respect, you're gonna have to earn it. I've been listening to you carry on here for the last couple of weeks And to tell you the truth, I don't know what card you've been dealing. If you're talkin' about them in an authoritative speaking, well you're talking about me when it comes to authority. Now if you're talking about them when it comes to the colour of skin - well then we've got another problem. Either way, I'm here to listen to you talk."

Ron Killings: "First of all, you consider yourself just like them. Look again - you're not. You mean just about as much to them as I do. You want me to give you proof? You want more proof to back that up? Let's talk about your own career, okay? As a matter of fact, let's talk about your WWF career, how about that. Now let's see, how can I start this off. The great Ricky 'The Dragon' Steamboat. I grew up a big fan of yours, Ricky. Huge fan. People as of right now, to this very day, is talkin' about Savage and Steamboat and WrestleMania III. And I doubt if it'll ever stop. But you know what? On that same very night that you reached your goals at a pinnacle time in your career, you became the Intercontinental Champion - am I right or am I wrong? Well then, why did it just stop? Why didn't you get an opportunity to become the WWF Champion? Go for the big gold - why did they stop you? Was it them holding you back? Like they hold me back? Rick—Dragon, look in my eyes and tell me I know what I'm talking about. The Intercontinental belt was always for a second-class citizen. Oh yes! Oh yes, Dragon, fifteen years later, they pulling the same shiznit on me. But you know what? I am tired, I'm mad as hell, and I'm not gonna take it. You know where I'm comin' from, Dragon - you've been there. You can change all of this. You can do it. You make the decisions. And for all of us - make the right one."

Ricky Steamboat: "As much as it hurts my feelings, I know where you're coming from. You're talking about them. I know where you're coming from. So this is what I'm gonna do. I'm gonna give you that opportunity of a lifetime. I'm gonna give you that shot. It's gonna be for the NWA Heavyweight Championship of the world. Ken Shamrock and Ron 'The Truth' Killings, it's gonna happen here next week, you got it."

People at this point resort to the Rock trump card, at which the safest assumption given who Vince is, is assuming he went "a. too much money b. he looks like a tanned dude anyway"

Look at who got the belt over the years: russians so they could put americans over, people from the middle east (or that they can act like they come from there) so they could put americans over, and then nothing for black wrestlers of any region of the planet. What's the closest black people ever got to having a black american WWF Champion. Rock, Morales and am I missing someone else?

Lashley was pushed to the moon and all he ever got was an FU (literally and figuratively) from the top rope.

WHC? "world title for people I don't deem worthy of my personal real world title, the WWE belt". Henry got some later on, Booker got some of that too, but they never got even remotely close to really winning the WWE title. Vince would never let that happen, and you know that to be a fact. As for Asians, it's better to not even go there
 

Acorn

Member
I mean its not really gonna change until Vince is gone sadly. But its good that the fans are FINALLY fed up with that.

Hopefully the America vs Everyone thing goes away too. The only time I even liked that was when Kurt Angle was still a big wrestler. But that was more of me just liking Kurt.

tumblr_oko5m34jEf1s8dwjeo1_400.gif
Kurt played that shit like a champ. It was goofy in the best way, he has a natural charisma and comedic timing. Most can't pull off patriot shit without pushing the same buttons faces have for 100 years.

The you suck shit would bury most.
 

VoxPop

Member
Kurt played that shit like a champ. It was goofy in the best way, he has a natural charisma and comedic timing. Most can't pull off patriot shit without pushing the same buttons faces have for 100 years.

Exactly. Kurt was amazing on his own without the need for some patriotic gimmick. There is a huge difference between someone like Sgt. Slaughter and Kurt freaking Angle.
 

Paracelsus

Member
Kurt played that shit like a champ. It was goofy in the best way, he has a natural charisma and comedic timing. Most can't pull off patriot shit without pushing the same buttons faces have for 100 years.

The you suck shit would bury most.

The irony of him mentioning Angle was that his real american persona was booked right off the bat as a heel. They saw Backlund 2 wasn't working and ran in the opposite direction.

I don't even think they even used Angle in a patriot angle, ever. He got the belt at Unforgiven 2001 for a feel-good moment because of 11/9 and that's it.
 

Shauni

Member
WHC? "world title for people I don't deem worthy of my personal real world title, the WWE belt". Henry got some later on, Booker got some of that too, but they never got even remotely close to really winning the WWE title. Vince would never let that happen, and you know that to be a fact. As for Asians, it's better to not even go there

Everything you said is true, but I do want to point out this is not 100% true. There was a brief period were the WHC was the top belt, when it was introduced in 2002 and was on Raw, which will forever be the flagship title. So fo about 3 years or so it was the main title for Triple H to hot potato with. That didn't last too long though since they brought the WWE title back to Raw in 2005. But either way, neither of those you mentioned held the title when it was the main title
 

Paracelsus

Member
Everything you said is true, but I do want to point out this is not 100% true. There was a brief period were the WHC was the top belt, when it was introduced in 2002 and was on Raw, which will forever be the flagship title. So fo about 3 years or so it was the main title for Triple H to hot potato with. That didn't last too long though since they brought the WWE title back to Raw in 2005. But either way, neither of those you mentioned held the title when it was the main title

I can address this too: the only reason the WHC was the "top" (notice the "") belt was 2003-EARLY 2005, and it's because of HHH. HHH didn't want to go to compete with Lesnar and get his s* pushed in, he didn't want to be second banana to anybody, so he just used his influence to make sure he stayed on RAW and that the WHC would get as relevant as the WWE championship (which was needed to make Lesnar the real next big thing, or so they hoped since they didn't knew he'd leave so soon).

Now, I can tell you right away why that is: Batista and Cena. As soon as Cena, their guy, got the WWE belt, he left Smackdown to go to dominate RAW. Batista got the WHC and got slapped to Smackdown. Batista addressed this too, in this promo , and later on he said he was shooting, he really did believe WWE put him aside while Cena took everything.

The WHC title lost all of its newly found prestige in between Batista's injury and Rey Mysterio's coattails win at WM22. It was only downhill from there.

HHH kinda said that also in the Punk's dvd, the WHC title started being used as a "We'll let you play with this toy, if you draw a dime we'll see if we can make you a real champion".

Punk was a 3 times WHC when he started feuding with Cena, and he was booked as a peon miserable underdog as if he never won anything. They mean it, to them there's only one real champion and he wears the WWE title.

Even now, that the belts are just worthless, they still don't dare putting them on asian or black wrestlers.
 

VoxPop

Member
I can address this too: the only reason the WHC was the "top" (notice the "") belt was 2003-EARLY 2005, and it's because of HHH. HHH didn't want to go to compete with Lesnar and get his s* pushed in, he didn't want to be second banana to anybody, so he just used his influence to make sure he stayed on RAW and that the WHC would get as relevant as the WWE championship (which was needed to make Lesnar the real next big thing, or so they hoped since they didn't knew he'd leave so soon).

Now, I can tell you right away why that is: Batista and Cena. As soon as Cena, their guy, got the WWE belt, he left Smackdown to go to dominate RAW. Batista got the WHC and got slapped to Smackdown. Batista addressed this too, in this promo , and later on he said he was shooting, he really did believe WWE put him aside while Cena took everything.

The WHC title lost all of its newly found prestige in between Batista's injury and Rey Mysterio's coattails win at WM22. It was only downhill from there.

HHH kinda said that also in the Punk's dvd, the WHC title started being used as a "We'll let you play with this toy, if you draw a dime we'll see if we can make you a real champion".

Punk was a 3 times WHC when he started feuding with Cena, and he was booked as a peon miserable underdog as if he never won anything. They mean it, to them there's only one real champion and he wears the WWE title.

Even now, that the belts are just worthless, they still don't dare putting them on asian or black wrestlers.

This is all very true and I've noticed it as well while watching WWE through the years. It's a shame because the WHC looks way better than the WWE title too. I don't necessarily put the title itself as a race thing but more along the lines of guys who they don't actually see as their top star since it's been used for white wrestlers as well (Punk, Swagger, Ziggler, etc). But in the end, I guess you can equate that to race playing a role too.

Kind of off topic but that video you linked reminded me of how insanely hot Cena/Batista were back then. It was at the point you couldn't really choose a side and wanted them both to be pushed to the moon starting at that Rumble where Vince ran into the ring and smashed his kneecaps or whatever.
 
T

thepotatoman

Unconfirmed Member
Muhammad Hassan got canned because a group called ISIL (wearing black masks spoofing ISIS) attacked the Undertaker, and somehow Vince didn't think that would make viewers upset 3 days after a London bombing attack.

23b76dd03bc8_sf_9.jpg


Vince just can't help himself when it comes to approving racist scripted shit.

You're thinking of Al-Qaeda not ISIS. Also ISIL and ISIS are the same thing, not a spoof.

It's an honest mistake, and it doesn't really change anything like some of those other responses seem to suggest. Hell, True Lies was criticized for a similar brand of racism all the way back in 1994 before Al-Qaeda.

Worst part of that gimmick is his promos had a big focus on being against being racially profiled and accusing the crowd of being racist for assuming he's a terrorist. Him being against racism was supposed to be a part of what made him a heel.
 

Toki767

Member
The most tone deaf part of the entire thing was that they tried to do this in the bay area rather than in some place in middle America.

Most people in that crowd probably weren't even white.
 

Clegg

Member
The Kurt Angle/Booker T feud tread on dodgy ground as well. Kurt lusted after Bookers wife because he wanted to have "bestiality sex" with her. Not only did he look like a sexual predator but also a racist.
 

Chuckie

Member
The Kurt Angle/Booker T feud tread on dodgy ground as well. Kurt lusted after Bookers wife because he wanted to have "bestiality sex" with her. Not only did he look like a sexual predator but also a racist.

..................wtf????

Did he actually say that?
 

Paracelsus

Member
good lord...

East Asians have basically only ever been jobbers and caricatures in wrestling

has one ever held a title other than the tag team belts or cruiser weight title?

Last wrestler of asian descent to hold a significant belt was Ricky Steamboat 30 years ago, holding the IC title.

Then, there's Yokozuna, but you can also claim racism there because of cultural appropriation. He was a american-samoan booked as a Japanese sumo.
 
Well this thread was a depressing read...

I swear nowadays I'm worried that anything or anyone I've ever liked is gonna turn out to be a big disgusting racist. I love being black but this shit is just tiring
 

Murkas

Member
The people who'll gladly call out Vince/WWE on their racism via tweets and subreddits are the same people who carry on giving them money and do the bowing gesture when Vince walks down the ramp.
 

Jumeira

Banned
I remember this. This was during the week of the London attacks I believe. Wasn't Hassan suppose to be their next big thing? I still remember the heat he got whenever he came out.
Hasan had the best opening theme music, used to enrage the crowd, and he'd come out smirking.
 
Well this thread was a depressing read...

I swear nowadays I'm worried that anything or anyone I've ever liked is gonna turn out to be a big disgusting racist. I love being black but this shit is just tiring
I don't want to sound like a jackass or anything, but how does one not know that wwe is racist, they are so blatant sometimes its disgusting, of course when we are kids we don't think about that stuff
 
I don't want to sound like a jackass or anything, but how does one not know that wwe is racist, they are so blatant sometimes its disgusting, of course when we are kids we don't think about that stuff

Yeah I watched it as a kid. And occasionally picked up a wrestling game which I'll stop doing now
 
T

thepotatoman

Unconfirmed Member
God, there's so much racist stuff in WWE history to go over. We haven't even gotten to Jerry Lawler yet. His many jokes about east asians could take up this whole topic, like this one.

All these incidents are from heels, but they all come across as an excuse to say racist stuff, no different from those people "ironically" posting nazi memes all over the internet. It's like they can only see racism as the list of things they've been told not to say in public.
 
Vince's childish humour is definitely terrible but it did bring us one of the best wrasslin moments. Aka Michael Cole announcing in a serious tone that Jerry the King Lawler has suffered.....anal bleeding:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D6Po7mf34p0

Everything about that moment was perfect, but not for the reason Vince intended. The way cole quick cuts into it. The reaction of Booker and the reaction of JR who clearly has a "for fucks sake Vince" look on his face.

And just knowing Vince is yelling into cole's headset telling him to say that. GOOD RIB.

edit: didn't Michael cole get raped once?
 
Camera side being empty is not new. I've been to PPV's that were like that.

B Grade crap like Bragging Rights, but still full fledged PPV's.

Not with 60 percent empty seats. Usually, the last floor might be taped off or the upper side in the hard camera side. But only 40 percent in attendance is just a new low record.
 

fhqwhgads

Member
edit: didn't Michael cole get raped once?
Heidenreich was fun wasn't he? Actually fitting for this topic, they wanted him to be a nazi from ww2 who was cryogenically frozen and team him up with Kenzo Suzuki who would in turn act and dress like Hirohito. That would've gone over just fine!
 
Vince's childish humour is definitely terrible but it did bring us one of the best wrasslin moments. Aka Michael Cole announcing in a serious tone that Jerry the King Lawler has suffered.....anal bleeding:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D6Po7mf34p0

Everything about that moment was perfect, but not for the reason Vince intended. The way cole quick cuts into it. The reaction of Booker and the reaction of JR who clearly has a "for fucks sake Vince" look on his face.

And just knowing Vince is yelling into cole's headset telling him to say that. GOOD RIB.

edit: didn't Michael cole get raped once?

6 years later and this still absolutely kills me dead. Just perfect. Cole's dumb serious news face, Booker's instant reaction, JR's defeated expression.


Beautiful.
 
Vince's childish humour is definitely terrible but it did bring us one of the best wrasslin moments. Aka Michael Cole announcing in a serious tone that Jerry the King Lawler has suffered.....anal bleeding:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D6Po7mf34p0

Everything about that moment was perfect, but not for the reason Vince intended. The way cole quick cuts into it. The reaction of Booker and the reaction of JR who clearly has a "for fucks sake Vince" look on his face.

And just knowing Vince is yelling into cole's headset telling him to say that. GOOD RIB.

edit: didn't Michael cole get raped once?

Hahaha how did I forget about this?!
 

Radec

Member
Vince's childish humour is definitely terrible but it did bring us one of the best wrasslin moments. Aka Michael Cole announcing in a serious tone that Jerry the King Lawler has suffered.....anal bleeding:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D6Po7mf34p0

Everything about that moment was perfect, but not for the reason Vince intended. The way cole quick cuts into it. The reaction of Booker and the reaction of JR who clearly has a "for fucks sake Vince" look on his face.

And just knowing Vince is yelling into cole's headset telling him to say that. GOOD RIB.

edit: didn't Michael cole get raped once?

Holy shit. lmao
 

DeathyBoy

Banned
Heidenreich was fun wasn't he? Actually fitting for this topic, they wanted him to be a nazi from ww2 who was cryogenically frozen and team him up with Kenzo Suzuki who would in turn act and dress like Hirohito. That would've gone over just fine!

You left out him being managed by Paul Heyman. The part that broke me when I read about it. They pitched it to Vince and apparently he was silent afterwards for a few minutes in shock...

They shocked Vince.
 

Dick Jones

Gold Member
You left out him being managed by Paul Heyman. The part that broke me when I read about it. They pitched it to Vince and apparently he was silent afterwards for a few minutes in shock...

They shocked Vince.

It's more insane when you realise Paul's mother was a holocaust survivor.
 
D

Deleted member 47027

Unconfirmed Member
Not with 60 percent empty seats. Usually, the last floor might be taped off or the upper side in the hard camera side. But only 40 percent in attendance is just a new low record.

Did you find the list of low records? I want to see what timeframe its comparable to.
 
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