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GAF Running Club |OT| - Couch to Marathons, All abilities

I tried running at my gym yesterday because the weather has been awful in NC (thunderstorms in the morning?!) and it did not go well. There's something special about running outdoors that keeps me going. I'm going to have to suck it up and learn how to run outside in this heat and humidity.

I've been taking a bit of a break as I just got back from a very active vacation (walking 6-10 miles or biking 20-50 miles a day) but I hope to get back into running 2-3 miles every other day. Now that I can run a 5k without walking, I'm going to try and pick up a bit more distance each week. Would love to be able to run a 10K by sometime in August.

Why not...just not run in the heat? That's running 101 for summer. Go early in the morning or later in the evening when it's cooler so you don't dehydrate yourself or overheat. It's also a good idea to plan your route around water fountains if that is an option in your area.
 

FooTemps

Member
Wouldn't mind some advice RunGAF. Does everyone who starts running aim for a race or a marathon, eventually...?

I think it'd be fine for you to stay where you're at since you're not interested in racing. Getting to 10k would be good for cardio, but if you want more fitness I'd really recommend crosstraining instead. It would be better just to avoid a source of injury while strengthening your body in new ways.
 

kottila

Member
Wouldn't mind some advice RunGAF. Does everyone who starts running aim for a race or a marathon, eventually...?

I've been going at it since January (started in the ice and snow, I figure if I could stick with that, summer would be cake... and it is) and now am running 8k, 3x a week. Fastest 5k time is 25:04.

I'm pretty happy with what I'm doing but I've been eyeing training plans to get up to maybe an even 10k per run. But I don't really care about getting to marathon length. I just want the fitness aspect.

Basically I am asking if I'm spending too much effort to "tread water" as I know training in an inefficient way can be counter productive. I didn't really do it the right way to begin with, iI just sort of blasted my way up to 8k (and did injure my foot a bit in the process, but let it heal for 2 weeks and all is good now). I can run the whole 8k straight and my legs are no longer sore after.

So is there any reason to push, or should I just maintain what I'm doing?

p.s. loving the Fenix 5, the data it provides me is delicious.
p.p.s. the Fitbit people are real dicks about getting your data out, they broke the Garmin import tool. combined with their stance on HealthKit... idk what their problem is

If you're not that interested in running longer, why don't you improve your speed by incorporating intervals in your routine? Doing the same thing three times a week would quickly become boring
 
Ran my first club 5k since the end of spring training. Ran a 23'19". Not great, I clearly need to ramp up my training some more to hit than sub 1'40" in December.
 

FooTemps

Member
For the experienced marathon runners...

I currently only run about 15 to 20 miles a week and I'm wondering how much I should ramp up mileage to avoid stress injury. I'm currently taking a break for a week because I started getting some minor pain that is giving me concerns.

I'm 30 years old, 5'7", 165 lbs. My fastest single mile PR is 7:22, average 8:30/mi on my 5K, and about 9:50 on my 10K. I do 2 hill/stair days a week and I'm wondering if that is a bit too high intensity while I'm trying to build my base. Recommendations on good training practices?
 
After two or three runs where I had to walk because of my fear of puking again, I was able to complete my 5k without walking or stopping again. Hurray.
 
For the experienced marathon runners...

I currently only run about 15 to 20 miles a week and I'm wondering how much I should ramp up mileage to avoid stress injury. I'm currently taking a break for a week because I started getting some minor pain that is giving me concerns.

I'm 30 years old, 5'7", 165 lbs. My fastest single mile PR is 7:22, average 8:30/mi on my 5K, and about 9:50 on my 10K. I do 2 hill/stair days a week and I'm wondering if that is a bit too high intensity while I'm trying to build my base. Recommendations on good training practices?

Regarding increasing weekly mileage, I'll just quote myself again. I guess this should go into the OT or something. It's very outdated and some stuff there is actually wrong. But I guess nobody reads it anyway.

There are two popular rules of thumb for safely increasing mileage.

1-The Jack Daniels way

Run your weekly mileage at least 3 weeks until you feel comfortable (no minor pain or soreness). Increase weekly mileage up to 1 mile per number of runs you do per week. Run new mileage at least 3 weeks until you are comfortable again. Repeat.

2-The 10% rule

Increase mileage up to 10% each week. Take a down week (30-40% less) every 3-4 weeks. Repeat until you reach desired mileage.

I am not a very big fan of this one. For people starting (<10 miles a week) increases will take forever. It's a decent rule for micro cycles in a training plan, using overload and rest. It's less effective as a way to build life long mileage.

----------------

The only real rule is to listen to your body. But it does not really help much.

The reason to be extra careful with mileage increase is because musculoskeletal adaptations take more time than cardio vascular adaptations. Bones and tendons have very low blood supply, meaning slower recovery and growth after stress. The good thing is these changes also are longer to go away after inactivity because training actually makes your body more efficient and stronger at every level, including genes activation. That's why it's much easier to reach a previously attained level of fitness than reaching it the first time.

I don't think 2 hill/stair days a week is too much during a base phase, unless you do a lot of them and really go all out or something.

You should always do some raw speed stuff like strides/hills in base. Base is not only slow long mileage. You should always completely recover between them however. The goal with these is to:
  • improve mechanical skill and form
  • train yourself to be comfortable at faster speed
  • recruit new muscles fibers
The goal is not to make anaerobic gains. That's why the complete recovery between repeats.
 
The good thing is these changes also are longer to go away after inactivity because training actually makes your body more efficient and stronger at every level, including genes activation. That's why it's much easier to reach a previously attained level of fitness than reaching it the first time.
Is this true for the whole body?
 
Okay, upgraded to a Fenix 5. This thing is amazing, really liking the advanced stats with the HRM band... Looking forward to doing the local Dam2Dam run and Amsterdam marathon with it.

1498989578193196938582_zpszu2x5uzd.jpg
 

Oppo

Member
thanks for the advice peeps.

Okay, upgraded to a Fenix 5. This thing is amazing, really liking the advanced stats with the HRM band... Looking forward to doing the local Dam2Dam run and Amsterdam marathon with it.

if you are bringing your phone you can try the LiveTrack thing and broadcast your race position.
 
The good thing is these changes also are longer to go away after inactivity because training actually makes your body more efficient and stronger at every level, including genes activation. That's why it's much easier to reach a previously attained level of fitness than reaching it the first time.
Is this true for the whole body?

Genes activation, or epigenetics is a rather new known phenomena (modern studies started in the 90s). Basically it's the concept that operation of genes is changed by behavior, but not the DNA itself; A change in phenotype without a change in genotype.

I'm not super versed in this subject.

Usually I think these changes are very specific, much like regular training adaptations.

I know about one study where they had a group of people cycle only on one leg. Only the trained leg showed epigenetics change.
http://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.4161/15592294.2014.982445

So this would appear to show that running a lot would not give you improved tendons, bones and muscles anywhere but in parts used in running.

There is probably more to that, this is only one study. There is a number of diabetes studies showing exercise changes genes body wide in skeletal muscle and adipose tissues, so some changes might be global. Maybe the aerobic component? This is wild speculation. Then again, the exercice in the studies is generaly pretty global too.

So yeah, I cannot really answer definitely.

If you are interested in the subject, there are a lot of relevant references in the article above. However, I believe current knowledge in the matter is at the stage of hypothesis. We know something happens. We know a little what happens. We do not know why or how. We could explain some stuff with it, still need to prove it.
 

Zackat

Member
hey guys. first post in here!

I am kind of worried I have chronic compartment syndrome. I have most of the symptoms and will be going to the doctor this week (asap) to try and ascertain if that is the problem.

That being said, has anyone here had the surgery to deal with the pain, or know someone who has? Just trying to think about what I should do. I went from being very sedentary to being on my feet all the time for work and school, and it has kinda snowballed until now. I know it is really only typical for runners, but I am overweight so I wonder if this kind of exacerbated the problem.

Thanks
 
Well ran my first run with my new Pegasus 33's. When I got home I threw my asics in the trash. The difference was staggering lol (I had 330 on them and I'm a heavy striker/ a little overweight currently)
 

Staccat0

Fail out bailed
Jogging for the 3rd time in my life tomorrow. C25k is really working for me. I know it's early in the process but the "game" of it has me excited.

After my first jog I googled "how to run correctly" and it helped a lot.

I've also started fucking around with calesthetics between jogs but have no clue what to do and it feels aimless.

Would anyone reccomend an app that is similar to a c25k kinda thing but for body weight excersizes that idiots can do?
 

satriales

Member
hey guys. first post in here!

I am kind of worried I have chronic compartment syndrome. I have most of the symptoms and will be going to the doctor this week (asap) to try and ascertain if that is the problem.

That being said, has anyone here had the surgery to deal with the pain, or know someone who has? Just trying to think about what I should do. I went from being very sedentary to being on my feet all the time for work and school, and it has kinda snowballed until now. I know it is really only typical for runners, but I am overweight so I wonder if this kind of exacerbated the problem.

Thanks
I'm just recovering from compartment syndrome on my hip after a motorbike crash. I guess that is completely different though as I carried on running and the doctor was only worried if it became infected. 3 weeks later and it is almost fully healed on its own.

In your case I can only suggest seeing what the doctor says and maybe cut down on the activities you think are causing it.
 
12 by 4 in the heat is serious bizness *sweats*

Bonus points for giant blister breaking out at rep 6. Back 6 was ouch!

Heat is the enemy of runners. It's not making my long runs enjoyable at all. But then I remember Gabriela Andersen-Schiess and shush.

Stupid f)(&*(*^ 30 minutes of hill repeats in heat index 101F weather. I'm so tired....

After a run in the heat I find that a cold shower (obviously) while eating an out-of-the-fridge apple works wonders. Cools you inside and out.
 

KeRaSh

Member
The heat also messed with me yesterday. I'm obviously out of shape because I didn't run in the last 4 weeks because I was on vacation but eating a ton of fast food while visiting family in the US just made it a lot worse.
Combine those factors and I was done after a really difficult 4K. What a shameful display, haha!
 
so i jogged a 5k earlier this year and it completely destroyed me because i was not ready at all (50 minute, ugh) but i decided to start the couch to 5k program and im on week 2 and im learning to pace my breathing and feeling great overall. just moved here so im getting used to the humidity so ive been sticking to running on treadmill in the gym, will this bite me in the ass later? also there are storms here all the time so i can't really run around outside lol
 
so i jogged a 5k earlier this year and it completely destroyed me because i was not ready at all (50 minute, ugh) but i decided to start the couch to 5k program and im on week 2 and im learning to pace my breathing and feeling great overall. just moved here so im getting used to the humidity so ive been sticking to running on treadmill in the gym, will this bite me in the ass later? also there are storms here all the time so i can't really run around outside lol

Well, running on a treadmill is slightly different than running outside:
  • Calibration: The pace displayed by the treadmill might not be the pace you are running at
  • Pacer effect: I find that the treadmill "pulls me along"
  • Running form modifications? I don't think I run differently on a treadmill vs outside, but something to consider

In any case that you are following a C25K is great, and you can always adjust once you can run outside. Best of luck!
 
After a run in the heat I find that a cold shower (obviously) while eating an out-of-the-fridge apple works wonders. Cools you inside and out.

Frozen blueberries in barn yoghurt is my jam - turns into delicious creamy ice cream within a minute.

The heat has pushed my average resting heart rate up quite a bit, it's definitely having an effect.
 
Frozen blueberries in barn yoghurt is my jam - turns into delicious creamy ice cream within a minute.

The heat has pushed my average resting heart rate up quite a bit, it's definitely having an effect.

I'll add that to the list of things to try. Sounds delicious.

Yeah, the heat really messes up the usual training routine. The bright side is that come Fall it will be like getting a boulder off our shoulders. We are tempered by the flames of the Sun! (or something)

I cheated and got a small slurpee afterward.

You got to treat yourself once in a while, and you need to get your glycogen up after running so no worries :b
 
I'll add that to the list of things to try. Sounds delicious.

Yeah, the heat really messes up the usual training routine. The bright side is that come Fall it will be like getting a boulder off our shoulders. We are tempered by the flames of the Sun! (or something)



You got to treat yourself once in a while, and you need to get your glycogen up after running so no worries :b

Haha. SURE that's the reason. ;p
 
Genes activation, or epigenetics is a rather new known phenomena (modern studies started in the 90s). Basically it's the concept that operation of genes is changed by behavior, but not the DNA itself; A change in phenotype without a change in genotype.

I'm not super versed in this subject.

Usually I think these changes are very specific, much like regular training adaptations.

I know about one study where they had a group of people cycle only on one leg. Only the trained leg showed epigenetics change.
http://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.4161/15592294.2014.982445

So this would appear to show that running a lot would not give you improved tendons, bones and muscles anywhere but in parts used in running.

There is probably more to that, this is only one study. There is a number of diabetes studies showing exercise changes genes body wide in skeletal muscle and adipose tissues, so some changes might be global. Maybe the aerobic component? This is wild speculation. Then again, the exercice in the studies is generaly pretty global too.

So yeah, I cannot really answer definitely.

If you are interested in the subject, there are a lot of relevant references in the article above. However, I believe current knowledge in the matter is at the stage of hypothesis. We know something happens. We know a little what happens. We do not know why or how. We could explain some stuff with it, still need to prove it.
Thanks for this post, I'll read more on the subject. Doesn't this directly play into the old adage that it's easier to stay fit than to get fit? I think they're on to something.
 

GatorBait

Member
Hi Running-GAF! As a new "runner" (or aspiring runner), I thought I'd pop in to say hello and ask a couple questions:

1) Does anyone know a good source for running "heat maps" in different cities? I travel quite a bit for work, so I thought it would be fun to try to run in a bunch of different cities/states when traveling rather than just always stuff my face with food on the company credit card. Basically, what I'm looking for is an app/website that I can use to quickly look up where within a city are the popular running paths/trails/parks. Does something like this exist?

2) For those that run and lift weights, what do you do? I'm interested in balancing out my workouts with weights and running, but am considering not doing dedicated leg days. For one, I don't really need them as I was blessed with muscular legs, but I also don't want to fatigue my legs with weight while I'm trying to become a better runner. What do you all do for weight lifting? Any recommendations?
 

Fistwell

Member
1) Does anyone know a good source for running "heat maps" in different cities? I travel quite a bit for work, so I thought it would be fun to try to run in a bunch of different cities/states when traveling rather than just always stuff my face with food on the company credit card. Basically, what I'm looking for is an app/website that I can use to quickly look up where within a city are the popular running paths/trails/parks. Does something like this exist?
The nike app had something like that. It was always shit wherever I was though. Strava has it for a few cities. It's kinda poo too.

2) For those that run and lift weights, what do you do? I'm interested in balancing out my workouts with weights and running, but am considering not doing dedicated leg days. For one, I don't really need them as I was blessed with muscular legs, but I also don't want to fatigue my legs with weight while I'm trying to become a better runner. What do you all do for weight lifting? Any recommendations?
Ask mdsfx. Also, BruceLeeRoy I believe once claimed to run a 5min mile. Both from fitness (meaning: weightlifting) gaf, although mdsfx hasn't been posting much, and Bruce even less.
 

mdsfx

Member
Boo! :p

2) For those that run and lift weights, what do you do?

I do legs on a swim day each week. I never do legs before running. It's just no fun. Also, it still sucks to run the day after leg day, but unless you want to run less often, it is what it is.

Monday: Lift (lower body), Swim
Tuesday: Run
Wednesday: Cycle
Thursday: Lift (upper body), Run
Friday: Swim
Saturday: Cycle, Swim
Sunday: Long run

Don't give up leg days with the run training unless you want to see your legs get smaller. Trust me :(

BruceLeeRoy I believe once claimed to run a 5min mile.

That's crazy. I could do a 6 minute, but 5 is out of my league.
 

GatorBait

Member
Okay, upgraded to a Fenix 5. This thing is amazing, really liking the advanced stats with the HRM band... Looking forward to doing the local Dam2Dam run and Amsterdam marathon with it.

Nice! I recently picked up the Fenix 5S myself because I have smaller wrists. The larger Fenix watches look like I'm wearing a dinner plate on my wrist, so I was pretty psyched to read that they had a fitness watch that was sized more like a "normal" watch. I'm still in awe almost every day with all the features this thing has. I gave the Vivoactive HR a trial run but ended up returning it since it was missing a handful of key features I wanted (plus I came to quickly sour on my opinion of the size/shape of it). Upgraded to the 5S and I can confidently say it is one of my favorite purchases, period, in years.

By the way, is that a custom watchface you're using? If so, do you mind giving me the name of it?

I do legs on a swim day each week. I never do legs before running. It's just no fun. Also, it still sucks to run the day after leg day, but unless you want to run less often, it is what it is.

Thanks for the feedback - I recognize you from Fitness GAF and your training regimen, especially the variety of it, was always something I was impressed with and aspire to.
 
Finally getting the hang of running slower.

It has been mentally tough to change my running mindset of the past 7 years. Pretty much to go as fast as I can, all the time.

It has helped running with coworkers who are slower than me every weekend. It has allowed me to find a good pace.
 

FooTemps

Member
How the eff do you guys deal with nipple chafing!? Trying to get to 40 miles a week is killing me in all the weirdest ways...
 

Fistwell

Member
Well look who's lurking! ;)
That's crazy. I could do a 6 minute, but 5 is out of my league.
For someone not training, that's pretty remarkable and would be the sign of serious natural talent. I kind of suspect either short track and/or loose timing though, but I tend to be skeptical of everything and everyone. (if it's not on Strava it didn't happen.) ;D

How the eff do you guys deal with nipple chafing!? Trying to get to 40 miles a week is killing me in all the weirdest ways...
Some people lube up. I put bandaids. But I need to trim my wild chest hair, bandaids not sticking to the skin.
 
Well guys about to head on vacation. Looking forward to doing some running in another country. :) We don't have much terrain in central Texas but where I am going it's pretty much all mountains. This could be brutal.
 
I did 8 miles yesterday and it didn't make me feel like death. I was going quite slow, but it feels a lot better doing it slow than rushing at the start and then fucking myself up for the rest of the run.
 
How the eff do you guys deal with nipple chafing!? Trying to get to 40 miles a week is killing me in all the weirdest ways...

Been using this stuff for ages, never fails:

rg-prod.jpg


Also, your choice of clothes becomes super important when distance training. You might experiment with under garments, particularly the mesh tops by Brynje - they do a much better job of evaporating your sweat so your singlet/shirt doesn't get soaked and turns into an Inquisition torture device halfway through.

If all else fails, just run shirtless like a fucking caveman.
 

mdsfx

Member
Well look who's lurking! ;)

For someone not training, that's pretty remarkable and would be the sign of serious natural talent. I kind of suspect either short track and/or loose timing though, but I tend to be skeptical of everything and everyone. (if it's not on Strava it didn't happen.) ;D

Yeah that's a total shot in the dark and may be optimistic. My last 5k was 6:40/mi. So maybe a 6:20 is more realistic?
 
Well ran my first run with my new Pegasus 33's. When I got home I threw my asics in the trash. The difference was staggering lol (I had 330 on them and I'm a heavy striker/ a little overweight currently)

What do you still think of the Pegasus?

I'm not a picky runner and have always bought a different running shoe every time I need a new pair. I usually stick with shoes with not a ton of support support like Frees or some Vazees.

Decided to do a foot analysis and saw that I have a high arch and mostly strike the ball of my foot. Tempted to get a supportive shoe for my feet like the Pegasus finally, but I'm not really interested in moving to a heavier shoe. Granted I do run about 30-40 miles a week currently, but I've been lucky to avoid any injuries or bad running ailments so far.
 

mdsfx

Member
Placed 57/421 at the Lake Zurich (IL) Triathlon Sprint today. Swam easy and averaged 23mph on the bike and 7:15/mi on the run (my legs felt like rocks after cycling as usual). Running after cycling is such an interesting experience... :(
 
I did 8 miles yesterday and it didn't make me feel like death. I was going quite slow, but it feels a lot better doing it slow than rushing at the start and then fucking myself up for the rest of the run.

Placed 57/421 at the Lake Zurich (IL) Triathlon Sprint today. Swam easy and averaged 23mph on the bike and 7:15/mi on the run (my legs felt like rocks after cycling as usual). Running after cycling is such an interesting experience... :(

Keep fighting the good fight!
 
A question for hikers or any other folks who do physical activities who also work out or run/jog: if your hike or activity takes what would normally be your rest day, do you still work out or jog or run the next day after the hike/activity or do you just rest?
 

Fisico

Member
Wew.
So I'm now living in Japan and more specifically Tokyo, considering the weather (temperature never goes below 25° and is >30° most of the time, it also feels +5° because of humidity) it's near impossible to run outside asides from some park it would have been hard anyway.

So I ran on a treadmill for the first time the other day.

Holy shit it's painful, sweating like I never sweated before, both legs and cardio were ok, I had a bottle with me so I could drink but... I dunno just felt pretty bad the entire time (ran >11k in ~50mn), had to slow down a little bit (<14km/h) do you get used to it with time or will it stay like that?

I wasn't enthusiastic to begin with because it's pretty boring but if it's painful on top of that my motivation will drop like a rock :(
 

Oppo

Member
A question for hikers or any other folks who do physical activities who also work out or run/jog: if your hike or activity takes what would normally be your rest day, do you still work out or jog or run the next day after the hike/activity or do you just rest?

I just rest personally, and reset the count.

Here's a question for the thread: what do you guys do about water on a run?

My usual run is 8km (although I sometimes do 10km on weekends), less than an hour, and I don't take any water with me. I'll have a small glass before I go and that's that. Other running friend says this is A Real Bad Idea. I could chug a pint glass before I go but I really don't want to lug water with me, do I have to? I only occasionally feel thirsty. I sweat like a fountain though so I probably should. Or is it ok to just pre- and post-chug for 40-50 min runs?
 
Here's a question for the thread: what do you guys do about water on a run?

My usual run is 8km (although I sometimes do 10km on weekends), less than an hour, and I don't take any water with me. I'll have a small glass before I go and that's that. Other running friend says this is A Real Bad Idea. I could chug a pint glass before I go but I really don't want to lug water with me, do I have to? I only occasionally feel thirsty. I sweat like a fountain though so I probably should. Or is it ok to just pre- and post-chug for 40-50 min runs?

I feel people are way too obsessed with hydration; just drink according to your thirst and trust your body. Don't look at how much you sweat, just check how much you crave fluid.

Any run under an hour shouldn't require extra hydration unless you haven't been drinking enough leading up to it or had too much salty food. So yeah, for runs of 50 minutes, don't stress yourself out with extra logistics.

When I run over two hours, I just pass through some commercial districts where I can grab a bottle or can from a dispenser (lots of train stations have them in my country.) When that's not feasible, I place a bottle somewhere and lap around to it at the halfway point. Carrying that stuff around is just too much of a hassle (hate the sound of sloshing or the chafing if the bottle gets dislodged.)
 

Fisico

Member
I just rest personally, and reset the count.

Here's a question for the thread: what do you guys do about water on a run?

My usual run is 8km (although I sometimes do 10km on weekends), less than an hour, and I don't take any water with me. I'll have a small glass before I go and that's that. Other running friend says this is A Real Bad Idea. I could chug a pint glass before I go but I really don't want to lug water with me, do I have to? I only occasionally feel thirsty. I sweat like a fountain though so I probably should. Or is it ok to just pre- and post-chug for 40-50 min runs?

If you're going for <1h run and don't push yourself too hard / it's not too hot (>30°), then there's no need to bring any water with you.
Personally I always drink 1L in the few hours preceding my running session, it helps a lot when temperature goes above >20° but that's all.
 
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