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charlequin · Oct 17, 2006

Tain said:
But someone throwing out an absurd speculation about cookies seems to be perfectly fine for plenty of people in this thread.

It's not absurd at all. EA is not benevolent; they're out to make money however possible. History shows that you can get in trouble for monitoring user's browsing without telling them at all, but that you can probably squeak by legally by telling them you're gathering "anonymous statistics" without necessarily describing what those are. The idea that the notice in question might refer to something beyond in-game ad monitoring isn't necessarily true, but it's definitely not an unreasonable conclusion to draw as a possibility.

KINGMOKU · Oct 17, 2006

Chichikov said:
Its too broad of question to answer.
Is EA going to steal your business sensitive data?
Probably not.
Is a program snooping around your computer can comprise your security (internationally or by bad design)?
You bet.
Is it a good idea to have a your work stuff on a separate machine from your gaming / internet surfing box?
**** yeah it is.

Thanks. I have been pretty lazy about getting another computer. Time to get with the program I guess.

Kinda like a surf,game,GAF box.

acksman · Oct 17, 2006

Thing is, what stops some hacker/cheater, which there is tons in BF2, to not tap into this "module" and start extracting more personal information. As buggy and flawed past BF2 games have been, I don't doubt there will be some punk to find a way to tap in to this info.

Odrion · Oct 17, 2006

Wasn't there a "Why do you guys hate EA" threat a bit ago?

Well, now you know why.

Go wait and buy Quake Wars, the true bleak furturistic online FPSer (with probably no spyware attached!)

KINGMOKU · Oct 17, 2006

acksman said:
Thing is, what stops some hacker/cheater, which there is tons in BF2, to not tap into this "module" and start extracting more personal information. As buggy and flawed past BF2 games have been, I don't doubt there will be some punk to find a way to tap in to this info.

Yup, thus my fears.

Not like it will matter, but I am now personally boycotting EA. This is just complete crap, anyway you slice it.

I paid for the game ****ers, I will NOT allow you to advertise to me as well.

So, for those EA people who may be reading;

Piss off.

shpankey · Oct 17, 2006

yup, the cheating in BF2 is insane. guaranteed these hackers who make those cheats will use this as a backdoor into your system and your info.

Sinatar · Oct 17, 2006

I didn't really care, but this little note from the patch notes is pretty disturbing...

Patch Notes said:
"Players who have the Windows security update KB917422 installed may suffer from an application error when running Battlefield 2142. This error can be solved by uninstalling the KB917422 update."

So what does KB917422 do?

"Vulnerability in the Windows kernel could result in remote code execution"

Good show EA, good f*cking show.

Lhadatt · Oct 17, 2006

davepoobond said:
and another reason why console games are better =p

Until EA releases a 360 game with a firmware patch for their ad downloader.

Beergut · Oct 17, 2006

Schafer said:
I didn't really care, but this little note from the patch notes is pretty disturbing...

So what does KB917422 do?

"Vulnerability in the Windows kernel could result in remote code execution"

Good show EA, good f*cking show.

WTF????????????????????

koam · Oct 17, 2006

Schafer said:
I didn't really care, but this little note from the patch notes is pretty disturbing...

So what does KB917422 do?

"Vulnerability in the Windows kernel could result in remote code execution"

Good show EA, good f*cking show.

holy shit, that's awful

Mashing · Oct 17, 2006

Schafer said:
I didn't really care, but this little note from the patch notes is pretty disturbing...

So what does KB917422 do?

"Vulnerability in the Windows kernel could result in remote code execution"

Good show EA, good f*cking show.

The hell, is EA retarted? Wait, don't answer that. It was rhetorical question.

PepsimanVsJoe · Oct 17, 2006

Why do people support EA again? I don't get it.
Seriously I ask this question all the time. Now I gotta worry about EA learning what pornsites I visit?

Please somebody drag the "Fashionably Lame EA supporter" in here so I can skull**** him*.
No seriously if there was really nothing wrong with what they are doing then why the damage control? Why the back-pedaling? Why anything?

Lousy company to the end.

*Yell at him

ghst · Oct 17, 2006

If Luke doesnt drop his shit over this on 1up yours this week FREEDOM IS DEAD.

ps needs a more inflammatory thread title.

railGUN · Oct 17, 2006

This is total bs. I never planned on getting this simply because it looks stupid, but this would stop a purchase if I had planned on buying it.

However, anyone here concerned with having their computer data-mined, and having all their personal info being digested by marketing companies and the likes, look in your wallet. If you have an Airmiles Card, any type of grocery "rewards" card, etc, you've already been data-mined every single time you swipe that card.

Bad move EA.

PepsimanVsJoe · Oct 17, 2006

railGUN said:
However, anyone here concerned with having their computer data-mined, and having all their personal info being digested by marketing companies and the likes, look in your wallet. If you have an Airmiles Card, any type of grocery "rewards" card, etc, you've already been data-mined every single time you swipe that card.

You're right I don't even know why I bother getting pissy about it.

I just hope none of this comes back to haunt me if/when I become a teacher.

shpankey · Oct 17, 2006

railGUN said:
This is total bs. I never planned on getting this simply because it looks stupid, but this would stop a purchase if I had planned on buying it.

However, anyone here concerned with having their computer data-mined, and having all their personal info being digested by marketing companies and the likes, look in your wallet. If you have an Airmiles Card, any type of grocery "rewards" card, etc, you've already been data-mined every single time you swipe that card.

i nor a single person i know has any of that. so that logic doesn't give EA any right to my info. i mean, if that's how they're justifying it.

railGUN · Oct 17, 2006

shpankey said:
i nor a single person i know has any of that. so that logic doesn't give EA any right to my info. i mean, if that's how they're justifying it.

I dont think they are attempting to justify it all, and I try my hardest to avoid those "rewards" cards out of principal (I dont have any but my girl does). I was just making the point that a lot of people knowingly or unknowingly participate in this stuff daily.

EDIT: and a simple checkbox while installing to either allow or dis-allow the spyware to be installed would fix this problem. A lot of people (read: the people EA wants data from anyways) click the "next" button without reading a damn thing.

Tain · Oct 17, 2006

It's not absurd at all. EA is not benevolent; they're out to make money however possible. History shows that you can get in trouble for monitoring user's browsing without telling them at all, but that you can probably squeak by legally by telling them you're gathering "anonymous statistics" without necessarily describing what those are. The idea that the notice in question might refer to something beyond in-game ad monitoring isn't necessarily true, but it's definitely not an unreasonable conclusion to draw as a possibility.

It just seems like going that far would cause a gigantic shitstorm amongst the game's audience, and EA really doesn't seem that stupid.

But.

Schafer said:
I didn't really care, but this little note from the patch notes is pretty disturbing...

So what does KB917422 do?

"Vulnerability in the Windows kernel could result in remote code execution"

Good show EA, good f*cking show.

yeah alright that's fishy now i'm embarrassed

I'd still be surprised if cookies were involved, but that's bad.

Log4Girlz · Oct 17, 2006

EA loves you.

h0l211 · Oct 17, 2006

IGA's Justin Townsend explains exactly what information the game collects:

http://www.gamasutra.com/php-bin/news_index.php?story=11300

'Specifically, IGA's software uses the IP address for geotargeting of in-game ads (so that European ads are not shown to those in the U.S., for example). It also creates a unique user number that's generated locally, and is able to re-identify the gamer when he next appears online.

In addition, IGA's in-game ad solution does capture the time of day that the user started to play each gaming session - Townsend mentioned, as an example, that "if the brief says 'Males 18 to 34'", the ads may only be served between 6pm and 9pm on a weekday evening or similar, to replicate 'primetime' viewing.

The time that each ad impression takes place is also recorded by IGA, alongside what type of ad content it was (billboard, megaboard, or video stream), the duration (how long was the ad seen for), the size of the ad relative to the player, and the angle of deflection (what angle the ad is viewed at).'

Also:

'Townsend noted that "you are always going have that hardcore vocal minority" who don't want in-game ads. But he suggested that if those same people "knew the kind of painful transition that most publishers are going through right now", they might approve of in-game ads as an important financial support function for next-gen titles.

He particularly commented: "If gamers still want to have a high amount of good quality titles year in and year out, there needs to be alternate revenue streams" for next-gen gaming - IGA clearly sees in-game advertising as a notable example of this.'

Tain · Oct 17, 2006

That's pretty much exactly what I expected.

And a far cry from cookies.

FlyinJ · Oct 17, 2006

"But he suggested that if those same people "knew the kind of painful transition that most publishers are going through right now", they might approve of in-game ads as an important financial support function for next-gen titles."

Man, EA must have really broke the bank for slapping a few new assets and a new game mode into Battlefield 2. My god, he's right. If I only knew the pain EA must have had to go through!!!

You know what, IGA? Go **** yourself.

Beergut · Oct 18, 2006

h0l211 said:
IGA's Justin Townsend explains exactly what information the game collects:
..."if the brief says 'Males 18 to 34'

How does the game know my age and gender? When and how is that information collected?? I find this worrying.

White Man · Oct 18, 2006

h0l211 said:
'Townsend noted that "you are always going have that hardcore vocal minority" who don't want in-game ads. But he suggested that if those same people "knew the kind of painful transition that most publishers are going through right now", they might approve of in-game ads as an important financial support function for next-gen titles.

This is such bullshit. One, we know EA isn't going through any pains. Two, if the pains were real, I'd rather pay an extra ten bucks for the game than to drop a fifty to be directly targeted by advertisements. Yeah, I might bitch about the extra cash, but in my eyes it's easily the lesser of two evils in this situation.

GitarooMan · Oct 18, 2006

h0l211 said:
'Townsend noted that "you are always going have that hardcore vocal minority" who don't want in-game ads. But he suggested that if those same people "knew the kind of painful transition that most publishers are going through right now", they might approve of in-game ads as an important financial support function for next-gen titles.

He particularly commented: "If gamers still want to have a high amount of good quality titles year in and year out, there needs to be alternate revenue streams" for next-gen gaming - IGA clearly sees in-game advertising as a notable example of this.'

****ing unbelievable, cry me a river.

Surfheart · Oct 18, 2006

h0l211 said:
He particularly commented: "If gamers still want to have a high amount of good quality titles year in and year out, there needs to be alternate revenue streams" for next-gen gaming - IGA clearly sees in-game advertising as a notable example of this.'

WTF ?

All I see is companies like EA releasing half baked, content lite rehashes of the same tired old sh*t ever 9 months, making millions in profits in the most lucrative entertainment industry in the world and charging me $120 AUD for the pleasure.

Greedy mofos with their crappy 6 page black and white manuals..

Bleh, comments like that infuriate me.

/rant

THE DUCK · Oct 18, 2006

I can tell you this much, if I purchased this at a store and opened it to find this notice it would go right back. I would not be taking no for an answer, make the store eat it and send a message to EA, because if it happens 100 times in every store you can bet it will be heard. No excuse for the notice to be on the inside of the box.

GSG Flash · Oct 18, 2006

dvdvideo said:
I can tell you this much, if I purchased this at a store and opened it to find this notice it would go right back. I would not be taking no for an answer, make the store eat it and send a message to EA, because if it happens 100 times in every store you can bet it will be heard. No excuse for the notice to be on the inside of the box.

I would do the same, there's no way I would pay $50 USD to install spyware on my computer.

CabbageRed · Oct 18, 2006

h0l211 said:
He particularly commented: "If gamers still want to have a high amount of good quality titles year in and year out, there needs to be alternate revenue streams" for next-gen gaming - IGA clearly sees in-game advertising as a notable example of this.'

Because that is the smart thing to say.

I actually have no problem with in-game advertising so long as the content isn't hopelessly off-target (Planetside being a good example of how not to handle ads). If I am running around shooting things in a city environment, I don't mind if there is a Pepsi billboard somewhere. However, once you want my PC to start reporting back to the advertisers, I have a problem and will not buy your product. That the wording is so vague makes it far worse since anything can be changed at any time. I'm not sure why anyone would choose to give IGA, EA, or any other company the benefit of the doubt when it comes to their privacy.

ElectricBlue187 · Oct 18, 2006

screw this game and any other spyware/DRM/installing stuff without my ****ing permission

KyanMehwulfe · Oct 18, 2006

A bit of spyware to prevent cheating, a la Warcraft, I can handle. But for advertising purposes? That's weak. Especially when it doesn't benefit the gamer in any way. Perhaps if it was for a MMO, and the advertising was the reason they could make it free (ie; Anarchy Online), but not in a regular priced game in a free-to-play online genre.

FlyinJ · Oct 18, 2006

This makes me want to buy a copy of 2142 and data mine it right up this douchebag's ass.

Tain · Oct 18, 2006

How does the game know my age and gender? When and how is that information collected?? I find this worrying.

Like much of this thread, way to read.

tegdf · Oct 18, 2006

calm down everyone, EA is only doing this to benefit gamers and make games more realistic

ElectricBlue187 · Oct 18, 2006

tegdf said:
calm down everyone, EA is only doing this to make more money by raping it's consumer base

fixed.

Beergut · Oct 18, 2006

Tain said:
Like much of this thread, way to read.

So, when they say "if the brief says 'Males 18 to 34'", the ads may only be served between 6pm and 9pm on a weekday evening or similar, to replicate 'primetime' viewing", by "brief" they mean criteria defined by IGA to direct everyone's ads, rather than information that is collected on individuals?
If so, my bad.
Still, this whole thing is a loathsome step for the industry. And EA crying poor is really a terrible approach to defend themselves.

Tain · Oct 18, 2006

they mean criteria defined by IGA to direct everyone's ads, rather than information that is collected on individuals?
If so, my bad.

Yeah, that's how I read it. That's the target audience of the ad, so they figure they'll show it to a larger portion of said audience if they show it during those hours.

Juice · Oct 18, 2006

Couldn't care less. The only time I ever boot up Windows is to play games. And that's really, really, really, rare.

Tellaerin · Oct 18, 2006

He particularly commented: "If gamers still want to have a high amount of good quality titles year in and year out, there needs to be alternate revenue streams" for next-gen gaming - IGA clearly sees in-game advertising as a notable example of this.'

Part of the problem we're having right now is that the shelves are groaning under the weight of too many 'quality titles', to the point where a) they're crowding each other out for shelf space, and b) most of us don't have time to play them all anyway. Now they claim they need 'alternate revenue streams' from datamining and in-game ads to keep churning out product at the current pace? Screw that. As it is now, publishers could cut back their output to 50% of what it is today, and most of us would still end up backlogged.

Maybe what's really needed in the industry isn't a second collapse, just a downsizing.

TekunoRobby · Oct 18, 2006

Excellent, excellent. Quake Wars is the true path to righteousness my brothers!

Wash away the foul EA EULA sins and join us in megatexture gameplay superiority:
http://www.enemyterritory.com/

Tain · Oct 18, 2006

sweet fuck do I wanna play quake wars

Chichikov · Oct 18, 2006

h0l211 said:
IGA's Justin Townsend explains exactly what information the game collects:

http://www.gamasutra.com/php-bin/news_index.php?story=11300

'Specifically, IGA's software uses the IP address for geotargeting of in-game ads (so that European ads are not shown to those in the U.S., for example). It also creates a unique user number that's generated locally, and is able to re-identify the gamer when he next appears online.

In addition, IGA's in-game ad solution does capture the time of day that the user started to play each gaming session - Townsend mentioned, as an example, that "if the brief says 'Males 18 to 34'", the ads may only be served between 6pm and 9pm on a weekday evening or similar, to replicate 'primetime' viewing.

The time that each ad impression takes place is also recorded by IGA, alongside what type of ad content it was (billboard, megaboard, or video stream), the duration (how long was the ad seen for), the size of the ad relative to the player, and the angle of deflection (what angle the ad is viewed at).'

Actually if that is true, I guess Im ok with it.
If all they collect is eyeball information tied to a hashed id, then it is something I can live with.

Im still waiting for someone who doesnt have financial stake in this game (read:hacker) to confirm these claims.

Grayman · Oct 18, 2006

railGUN said:
This is total bs. I never planned on getting this simply because it looks stupid, but this would stop a purchase if I had planned on buying it.

However, anyone here concerned with having their computer data-mined, and having all their personal info being digested by marketing companies and the likes, look in your wallet. If you have an Airmiles Card, any type of grocery "rewards" card, etc, you've already been data-mined every single time you swipe that card.

Bad move EA.

The cards only work for where and how you use the cards. A personal PC does more than play bf2142.

CabbageRed · Oct 18, 2006

Chichikov said:
Actually if that is true, I guess I’m ok with it.
If all they collect is eyeball information tied to a hashed id, then it is something I can live with.

I’m still waiting for someone who doesn’t have financial stake in this game (read:hacker) to confirm these claims.

I'm far more worried about the wording of the leaflet. To say, "well, we'll do one thing and maybe do other stuff, but don't worry because we aren't doing other stuff now" means almost nothing. They've given themselves no restrictions, and given the consumers assurances that they can be trusted with no restrictions.

TwIsTeD · Oct 18, 2006

i`m holding off a few weeks on this now....with the next gen consoles around the corner i need to make excuses to myself to not by this game....hell i liked the demo....and i bought a new rig just to play BF2 (yea i`m sorry i did too) anyway i`ll let this one ride out before i jump on the bf2142 bandwagon

radios shipping overview · Oct 18, 2006

h0l211 said:
'Townsend noted that "you are always going have that hardcore vocal minority" who don't want in-game ads. But he suggested that if those same people "knew the kind of painful transition that most publishers are going through right now", they might approve of in-game ads as an important financial support function for next-gen titles.

He particularly commented: "If gamers still want to have a high amount of good quality titles year in and year out, there needs to be alternate revenue streams" for next-gen gaming - IGA clearly sees in-game advertising as a notable example of this.'

Cry me a r-

Rats, beaten.

Dr_Cogent · Oct 18, 2006

Holy crap this is lame. I guess I gotta start boycotting EA. This coupled with pay to cheat bullshit. **** EA.

FlyinJ · Oct 19, 2006

Check this out:

Imagine each one of those logos replaced with this:

EA managed to get *7* ads on the screen at one time. Amazing accomplishment! That guy was right... it's all about giving players options. I can barely decide which of those 7 ads to focus on first!

shuri · Oct 19, 2006

I dont know, but i seriously cant see the ads, unless you mean those logos in the first..

FlyinJ · Oct 19, 2006

shuri said:
I dont know, but i seriously cant see the ads, unless you mean those logos in the first..

Every one of those logos in the first screen is going to be replaced with an ad similar to the one in the second screen.

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