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eXistor · May 28, 2017

I'm no fan of the episodic nature, but I'm willing to overlook that if every part is expanded upon to the degree of a full game or if the price reflects the smaller scope. I'm just worried that it's gonna be a "living"thing like FFXV, where they're constantly adding little things here and there long after the game has been released.

If I think about FFXV now, I've got a very incomplete feeling. I've only played and finished the base game, but will never touch any of the DLC (I don't think they look any good), but I'm now left with the feeling I've only played a part of the full game with all the DLC I'm gonna be skipping; I don't have a clear view on the game anymore.

much prefer games to be one and done.

Babyshams · May 28, 2017

It's already suffering IMO, I know multiple people that this went from a Day one purchase to a wait and see once episodic release was mentioned.

I know that's anecdotal but it's all I got.

addik · May 28, 2017

An episodic structure might actually work for big sprawling games like FF or what FFXV aspired to be. The problem with FF7 being episodic is that everyone already knows the basic plot of FF7, there won't be an element of surprise or of suspense at the end of each episode. If SE drags on the release of each FF7 episode, they might just lose steam and hype along the way. I think them using this experimental structure for a beloved game almost every gamer knows about is probably the wrong way.

polyh3dron · May 28, 2017

With current day SE, there's no way this WON'T suffer.

theofficefan99 · May 28, 2017

I just want to know who thought making a game that was planned to be a trilogy into one game, and transferring that trilogy concept onto a remake of a game that was originally a single game, was a good idea. Like there's no logic to this.

Maou · May 28, 2017

Napalm_Frank said:
One danger it faces I think is if the sales/hype plummet after the first episode releases and people play it and by the time third episode or so rolls in it's made with much lesser budget ect.

This seems most likely: the Xenosaga-ification of VII. Ambitions reduced as sales decline, shifting staff (often for the worse) and art/music direction...

theofficefan99 · May 28, 2017

I'll be really annoyed if this ends up being yet another generation where only one offline mainline FF is released. I'm really hoping XVI is released this gen and it's not a cross-gen title, either.

hurricanes · May 28, 2017

It's Final Fantasy 7, it would sell regardless of its form.
And if they play it right, it might do even better than FFXV.
...but it's Square Enix, I am not holding my breath.

Lanrutcon · May 28, 2017

haha

"Could"

evolve9 · May 28, 2017

I mean, we are talking about Final Fantasy VII here, it will sell like hotcakes regardless of the quality of the games. There's no doubt in my mind that it will easily outsell XV. I'm more worried about how they'll handle the episodic split gameplay-wise.

notaskwid · May 28, 2017

I feel like Square will cancel the episodic structure.

formasymphonic · May 28, 2017

I'm interested in what they plan to do with levelling and if they plan to have save data carry over between the games or not - and what kind of effects their decision will have for the multiple game design.

Also at the rate it would take to launch 2-4 games its highly likely there would be some kin DLC cross generation aspect so also remains to be seen how that is handled and if there are any changes happening because of that.

chrono01 · May 28, 2017

I can't wait to see them release Square Enix Store-exclusive limited editions versions of all three parts, and sell them for $199.99 USD each. The depressing part? People would likely buy all of them.

But yeah, the episodic structure (if they decide to go ahead with it) will definitely hurt the game, assuming they can't/won't release them within no more than a year of each other. Given SE's current status, I'm guessing they won't be able to manage that.

Honestly, I'd be fine waiting 3+ years for the entire thing to be finished, and released as a single game. Hell, make it five years, whatever it takes.

Rad- · May 28, 2017

I've had a bad feeling about this project from the start. Doesn't help that I have never been impressed by Nomura as a director.

Daffy Duck · May 28, 2017

At this point I don't even think it will come out.

Fredrik · May 28, 2017

Asd202 said:
There is no way they will complete this project on PS4.

My thought as well. Even if PS5 comes out as late as 2020 we might still only see episode 1 on PS4/Pro. :/
(Off Topic: It wouldn't surprise me if Shenmue 3 will slip to PS5 as well. Stop announcing games or their platforms too early devs!!)

peanutbutterlatte · May 28, 2017

I widely consider episodic gaming to be a terrible, terrible idea. I struggle to think of a series that's actually managed it fluently. I'd rather just wait a little longer for the full release.

Deleted member 20920 · May 28, 2017

peanutbutterlatte said:
I widely consider episodic gaming to be a terrible, terrible idea. I struggle to think of a series that's actually managed it fluently. I'd rather just wait a little longer for the full release.

Trails in the Sky?

BocoDragon · May 28, 2017

peanutbutterlatte said:
I widely consider episodic gaming to be a terrible, terrible idea. I struggle to think of a series that's actually managed it fluently. I'd rather just wait a little longer for the full release.

I don't think this project is actually episodic in any way but story scenario. It's more like typical game release with sequels planned, all of them collectively based upon the lore of what was once a single game.

I get the reasoning behind wanting to wait for the "full release", but I think what you'd really be waiting for is something like the Nathan Drake Collection or Master Chief collection, a bundle of distinct games released across many years. It's not going to add up to something that behaves like a single game.

Daffy Duck · May 28, 2017

BocoDragon said:
I don't think this project is actually episodic in any way but story scenario. It's more like typical game release with sequels planned, all of them collectively based upon the lore of what was once a single game.

I get the reasoning behind wanting to wait for the "full release", but I think what you'd really be waiting for is something like the Nathan Drake Collection or Master Chief collection, a bundle of distinct games released across many years. It's not going to add up to something that behaves like a single game.

Wut?!?

BocoDragon · May 28, 2017

Daffy Duck said:
Wut?!?

The stated model for FF7R was the Final Fantasy XIII trilogy. This is a typical game series with sequels, it won't act like one game cut into pieces in any way but story.

Maybe your data will optionally carry over between games, like Mass Effect to its sequels. But each episode will be its own game completely.

Daffy Duck · May 28, 2017

BocoDragon said:
The stated model for FF7R was the Final Fantasy XIII trilogy. This is a typical game series with sequels, it won't act like one game cut into pieces in any way but story.

Maybe your data will optionally carry over between games, like Mass Effect to its sequels. But each episode will be its own game completely.

For real?

This just sounds like the project that keeps on getting worse.

Fredrik · May 28, 2017

BocoDragon said:
The stated model for FF7R was the Final Fantasy XIII trilogy. This is a typical game series with sequels, it won't act like one game cut into pieces in any way but story.

Maybe your data will optionally carry over between games, like Mass Effect to its sequels. But each episode will be its own game completely.

However they're releasing the episodes it'll still be one story chopped up in smaller pieces and when people were cheering that FF7 Remake would come to PS4 they obviously assumed that they would get the whole game and not just "disc 1". They'll all basically end with "To be continued..." unless they change the story all together.

ghostjoke · May 28, 2017

BocoDragon said:
The stated model for FF7R was the Final Fantasy XIII trilogy. This is a typical game series with sequels, it won't act like one game cut into pieces in any way but story.

Maybe your data will optionally carry over between games, like Mass Effect to its sequels. But each episode will be its own game completely.

Square can say that all they want, but it doesn't change the key difference that VII is already a full game with an established single story while XIII and Mass Effect were designed around three stories forming a single overarching plot. VII doesn't have the same jumping off points. It's probably just semantics at the end of the day but acting like VII isn't already a complete singular entity is ridiculous.

The good version of this senario is Lord of the Rings, split up due to logistical reasons (both books and films). Bad version is the film adaptions of The Hobbit with excessive padding and rough divides.

BocoDragon · May 28, 2017

Daffy Duck said:
For real?

This just sounds like the project that keeps on getting worse.

This was essentially what they meant when they announced "episodic". They meant like how Star Wars movies was episodic. Something they can milk with little episodes (rather, sequels) over years.

But many of us heard "Telltale-style"... like it was one game released in little parts over months. Not so.

ghostjoke said:
Square can say that all they want, but it doesn't change the key difference that VII is already a full game with an established single story while XIII and Mass Effect were designed around three stories forming a single overarching plot. VII doesn't have the same jumping off points. It's probably just semantics at the end of the day but acting like VII isn't already a complete singular entity is ridiculous.

The good version of this senario is Lord of the Rings, split up due to logistical reasons (both books and films). Bad version is the film adaptions of The Hobbit with excessive padding and rough divides.

I agree that the structure is what it is.... but it's not as if it couldn't be massaged into 3+ distinct stories if the skill is there. Is that skill there? Heh. You decide

I think this will be properly thought of as an "adaptation" of FF7.

Linkstrikesback · May 28, 2017

Yes it will, because people don't like episodic releases when there are decades between episodes.

Darkstorne · May 28, 2017

Betty said:
Absolutely yes.

Episode 1 might come out this gen, but the next 2 or 3 parts, no chance of making it before next gen.

Yep, it HAS to start as a PS5 game. Partly because gamers will only be buying Episodes 2 and 3 if they've played the previous ones, which is an even bigger gamble across entire generations. But mostly (for me) to future proof the inevitable "complete edition" as the definitive replay version. If the game isn't visually consistent throughout, they've screwed up, and that will hurt the game's legs.

Sony at least should recognize this even if Square don't. And the thought of FF7R as a PS5 launch title must be pretty tasty.

Plasma · May 28, 2017

I wonder if after Hitman not selling well for them they might abandon making it episodically. Personally I don't mind it either way I think it could work pretty well as long as they split up the episodes right and expanded on Midgar a bit to make it feel a bit more fleshed out.

BocoDragon · May 28, 2017

Darkstorne said:
Yep, it HAS to start as a PS5 game. Partly because gamers will only be buying Episodes 2 and 3 if they've played the previous ones, which is a gamble across entire generations. But mostly (for me) to future proof the inevitable "complete edition" as the definitive replay version. If the game isn't visually consistent throughout, they've screwed up, and that will hurt the game's legs.

Sony at least should recognize this even if Square don't. And the thought of FF7R as a PS5 launch title must be pretty tasty.

I'd say give that up right now. I'm sure Episode 3 will be a visual generation beyond Episode 1.

They'll probably look decently similar if they reuse tech and can apply future graphical improvements to older episodes... but I don't think the expectation here is that they will "act and look as one game", when in reality the episodes will release years apart.

DieH@rd · May 28, 2017

I think everything will be fine. We are getting three full games, with lots of expanded content in each of them.

I frankly don't care much about release schedule. I only care about the quality.

Fardeen · May 28, 2017

it has the potential of going horribly wrong or totally amazing. i fear that FF VII remake will rely too much on nostalgia... well i could always play FFVII on my vita for the complete experience

Gxgear · May 28, 2017

Yes, since XII all the FF games all feel like Frankenstein's monster: bits and pieces put together into one ugly mess. Taking FF7 Remake apart like that is just going to make it even worse.

Zephyrous · May 28, 2017

My hope is it'll be handled like how .Hack series was handled and flesh out some of the early characters, my expectation is we'll see Tabata taking it over in 8 years on PS5.5 with Final Fantasy VIII RE being announced under Nomura.

Zafir · May 28, 2017

I mean I think it's going to suffer for me personally. I don't like playing my games in parts.

Not to mention, I imagine they're going to be charging full wack for each part, and to be honest, I have no faith in them to add enough content to each part to make them feel like full priced releases. Especially after XV which felt like it had a fairly short main story, padded out with the open world content(most of which isn't that good).

Asd202 · May 28, 2017

Everyone keeps saying "three games or "Trilogy" when SE never said that. If Part I will be only Midgar and without some serious changes we may be looking at 3+ games.

Daffy Duck · May 28, 2017

BocoDragon said:
This was essentially what they meant when they announced "episodic". They meant like how Star Wars movies was episodic. Something they can milk with little episodes (rather, sequels) over years.

But many of us heard "Telltale-style"... like it was one game released in little parts over months. Not so.

I agree that the structure is what it is.... but it's not as if it couldn't be massaged into 3+ distinct stories if the skill is there. Is that skill there? Heh. You decide

I think this will be properly thought of as an "adaptation" of FF7.

Well if that's the case I am firmly out.

-MB- · May 28, 2017

It will already suffer greatly purely because it is made by modern S-E, the episodic nature will only add to it.

Drillary Clinton · May 28, 2017

Honestly, at this point they should just ditch the "episodic" tag and just say they're going to make 3 full games for FFVII. Especially considering we MIGHT get episode 1 this gen and the other two? Lol

gun_haver · May 28, 2017

edit: double post, sorry

gun_haver · May 28, 2017

I've just replayed FF7 (it was very good) and here's the way it is with the episodic release.

If they're doing a straight remake of the game, in story terms it only makes sense to chunk out the Midgar and then the full world map portions of the game. Anything else in a straight remake scenario is just a concession to make money.

Part 1 will not be 'disc 1' because disc 1 contains the entire game world and assets and uses almost all of them. I think people forget this. Midgar, and the entire world map and about 60-70% of the world map game is on disc one, and ALL of the resources for the entire game are on disc 1 excluding FMVs. Part 1 of FFVIIR will be probably be an extended version of Midgar, which in the original game was about 4 or 5 hours of stuff if you take your time, and as cool as Midgar is, it's a prologue. So they're going to have to beef it up considerably if they want to use it as a Part 1 type thing, which they will probably fuck up because all of their games are bad now compared to FF7.

The episodic nature of the game might not hurt the story too much (there are two cliffhanger points built into the story - leaving Midgar and Aeris), but it will fuck up the flow of the original game if they are going for a straight remake because the game is broken up into chunks like so:
- Midgar
- 20 hour section where you travel across the world and go to every meaningful location
- 10 hour section where you revisit numerous locations and do new things there
- ending section

There isn't really any way or good reason to do this in an episodic format because you need all of the resources for the entire game for everything post-Midgar. So if they're going for a straight remake, yeah it's gonna fuck up the game and make it less than what it should be.

If they're not going to do a straight remake then it won't be as good as the original game because Square Enix aren't capable of making a game as good as FF7 right now. It'll be a bunch of dumb bullshit if they try to restructure the entire thing.

I think they should just do it right and stop fucking around. If they really must do episodic at all, it should be FFVII: Midgar and then the full world stuff in another game, but they should really just do it all in one. They should be aiming for nostalgic europhoria with this, not a kind of 'oh well sure it isn't the way it should be, but wow it's nice we're getting this at all, right?' response. The episodic thing is just gonna fuck up their sales anyway. Just make it cheaper - you can skimp on some of the graphics a bit if you get all the other stuff right, nobody is actually going to care.

Masagiwa · May 28, 2017

It surely will suffer in some ways cause of the gaps between the games. Interesting points to discuss and how we think Square will handle them.

How will they handle the transfer of data between games? Is it available or do you start fresh in each game? (Problems like over leveled chars, gear, materia)

How will they handle the amount of content in each game so it can keep players occupied until the next game releases? (side quests, optional bosses, minigames etc.)

If the game overlap with other console gens how can they handle it? Do they stick to their plan and just release the games on PS4 etc even if the PS5 is out?

They really haven't answered a lot of questions to be able to say much about this.

Neptune · May 28, 2017

Judging from Square Enix's comments about the remake project being akin to the XIII trilogy as separate full-priced games, I'm mentally preparing myself for something like the way the Xenosaga series turned out: a total lack of cohesion in gameplay systems and visual fidelity across entries, with cuts in budget, scope and content from the first entry to the last to the point where you end up with a less expansive and inferior "reimagined" experience compared to the original game. Anyone expecting to fly the Highwind across the planet in HD hasn't been paying attention to the company's output the past decade. At this point, all I want from Square Enix is for them to release the PC ports of VIII and IX on PS4 after XII: The Zodiac Age comes out, but I'll probably pick up Final Fantasy VII: The Complete Remastered Collection once it releases on the PlayStation 6 in November 2027, just in time for the 30th anniversary.

BocoDragon · May 28, 2017

Neptune said:
Judging from Square Enix's comments about the remake project being akin to the XIII trilogy as separate full-priced games, I'm mentally preparing myself for something like the way the Xenosaga series turned out: a total lack of cohesion in gameplay systems and visual fidelity across entries, with cuts in budget, scope and content from the first entry to the last to the point where you end up with a less expansive and inferior "reimagined" experience compared to the original game. Anyone expecting to fly the Highwind across the planet in HD hasn't been paying attention to the company's output the past decade. At this point, all I want from Square Enix is for them to release the PC ports of VIII and IX on PS4 after XII: The Zodiac Age comes out, but I'll probably pick up Final Fantasy VII: The Complete Remastered Collection once it releases on the PlayStation 6 in November 2027, just in time for the 30th anniversary.

I totally agree with your description of the shape of the situation, and your concerns.

Waji · May 28, 2017

That's one of the things I'm worried about.
This and the overall directing.

Turin · May 28, 2017

Very possible. It's annoying to think that this long pined for unicorn could become a cross gen game. I kind of want it to get delayed to PS5.

There will likely be a difference in combat between parts, resulting in some frustration when you want to play from the beginning if you like the improvements of the third part. At least until Nomura decides to do a "Final Mix" version.

gun_haver · May 28, 2017

Neptune said:
Judging from Square Enix's comments about the remake project being akin to the XIII trilogy as separate full-priced games, I'm mentally preparing myself for something like the way the Xenosaga series turned out: a total lack of cohesion in gameplay systems and visual fidelity across entries, with cuts in budget, scope and content from the first entry to the last to the point where you end up with a less expansive and inferior "reimagined" experience compared to the original game. Anyone expecting to fly the Highwind across the planet in HD hasn't been paying attention to the company's output the past decade. At this point, all I want from Square Enix is for them to release the PC ports of VIII and IX on PS4 after XII: The Zodiac Age comes out, but I'll probably pick up Final Fantasy VII: The Complete Remastered Collection once it releases on the PlayStation 6 in November 2027, just in time for the 30th anniversary.

as far as the world map goes, it wouldn't even be that fucking hard to do i dunno why they're being such stingy dicks about it.

RedRum · May 28, 2017

Yes because it fucking seems like it'll be 5+ years for the first episode and no telling when we will get the rest. At this point, just wait until we are into the next generation and release one game.

GenericUser · May 28, 2017

My hype level went from "zomg" to "meh". Not even believing that the first episode will come out before 2020. How long are they thinking they can keep up the interest? 30 Years?

Nomura hurts the remake more then anything or anybody else.

Shredderi · May 28, 2017

I'm most worried about the content they will come up with to padd the episodes.

MilkBeard · May 28, 2017

notaskwid said:
I feel like Square will cancel the episodic structure.

I kind of hope they do; on one hand, I completely understand the episodic nature. On the other, it's risky, we won't get to finish the game properly for YEARS, and interest will wane by the final episode, no doubt.

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