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Exploratory · Jul 21, 2017

It's so weird for me that people are complaining about Destiny 2 being an expansion instead of a full game when the Player vs Player is the MOST different I've seen in a sequel.

Destiny was originally about movement, high damage abilities, and weaponry. It was about standing out from your 3 man or your 6 man. It was about big plays.

Destiny 2 is waaaaaay waaaay less about movement. Blink gets rid of your motion sensor. You can no longer titan skate. Your motion sensor is no longer available consistently so you can't make snap judgments at high speed. Your abilities don't do as much damage so you can't take on multiple enemies anymore.

Basically what made Destiny Destiny has been changed dramatically.

Trace · Jul 21, 2017

Destiny 2 is a massive change from Destiny 1 in regards to PvP and the only people complaining about "expansions" are either shitposting for fun or have only ever looked at screenshots.

IMO it's a change for the better though, running around a door and being 1-shot by a fusion grenade 5 times a match wasn't fun.

That being said, grenade and super cooldowns are too long in both PvP and PvE at the moment, especially PvE. It's possible lategame gear will fix that though.

darkwing · Jul 21, 2017

sometimes I don't get to pop a super in the entire match because it was recharging too long, even in PvE

Orayn · Jul 21, 2017

I found Destiny PvP to be nothing but abject suffering every time I played it outside of beta, so any change is good with me.

Hero Prinny · Jul 21, 2017

Toni Codrea said:
Now you know how Splatoon 2 fans feel like.

explain, because i played splatoon 1 and just finished playing like 2 or 3 hrs of the 2nd one and it def feels like splatoon 1.5 (not that i got any beef with that, its still a fun game)

flkraven · Jul 21, 2017

So instead of being the same, it's different but worse? That doesn't sound better...

Gaz_RB · Jul 21, 2017

Not really--things haven't really changed that much. Fundamentally it's the same multiplayer, with a few tweaks on a few things (that will probably get canceled out with gear anyway).

There has been really no big shift or major addition in how the game is played.

Twilight Gap · Jul 21, 2017

flkraven said:
So instead of being the same, it's different but worse? That doesn't sound better...

it's not

WadeitOut · Jul 21, 2017

Trace said:
Destiny 2 is a massive change from Destiny 1 in regards to PvP and the only people complaining about "expansions" are either shitposting for fun or have only ever looked at screenshots.

Lol this is ridiculous. Making tweeks to mechanics is in no way "massive.

If we get to complain about the lack of changes in annual editions of COD multiplayer then such minor updates after 3 years of Destiny is definitely fair game.

Exploratory · Jul 21, 2017

Gaz_RB said:
Not really--things haven't really changed that much. Fundamentally it's the same multiplayer, with a few tweaks on a few things (that will probably get canceled out with gear anyway).

There has been really no big shift or major addition in how the game is played.

Nah unless you have power ammo or a super ready you are not going 1v3 people on any sort of consistent basis.

benzopil · Jul 21, 2017

Destiny 2 PvP is the game about shooting each other with primaries. Like every other shooter on the market.

Destiny 1 was unique because of it's chaos. Super, grenades, melees were available amost at any time. Now it looks like a boring esports game. Maybe it will be better with good equipment etc.

The Lamonster · Jul 21, 2017

I've always been in love with Destiny PvP but the beta feels terrible in comparison IMO.

However, I'm still looking forward to the game and I have confidence Bungie will make PvP more fun for launch than it currently is in the beta.

TsuWave · Jul 21, 2017

I don't see destiny 2 being as successful as the first, I'm probably wrong but it's so divisive. I put so many hours into the first and I'm extremely underwhelmed by the sequel, I'm still buying it because my guardian group from the first wants to come back together but this time I'm not getting the season pass and I'm sure I'm not putting as many hours into it/be as invested as I was with the first

Mass Effect · Jul 21, 2017

Can't speak for those shitposting, but personally I don't know if I'm a fan of the PVP changes.

Instead of shotgun-mania it's now just a machine gun fest.

I feel like the abilities too slowly now. I never had issue with how they were in D1.

Shaxx needs to shut the hell up. He talks too much.

flkraven · Jul 21, 2017

Twilight Gap said:
it's not

So it's the same, but worse then?

Gaz_RB · Jul 21, 2017

Exploratory said:
Nah unless you have power ammo or a super ready you are not going 1v3 people on any sort of consistent basis.

Even if I actually agreed with that(or that fact is any different than Destiny 1, that's not a new or interesting addition.

Sarobi · Jul 21, 2017

It is different, but it's not different in a way that I find it fun. Not to say that I thought Destiny 1's PvP was either.. so..

Exploratory · Jul 21, 2017

Gaz_RB said:
Even if I actually agreed with that(or that fact is any different than Destiny 1, that's not a new or interesting addition.

I'm not saying it's a good thing I'm just saying its different from D1. D1 me and my sniper could get a double kill at any time. Using primary fire to kill people means combat is much slower. Feels way more different than the yearly COD changes for example.

VlaudTheImpaler · Jul 21, 2017

I'll reserve judgement until the PC beta but I really hope this isn't true. Destiny's movement was something I really loved about the first one.

EDIT: PC is getting a beta right?

EDIT 2: Just saw that it is TBA...

franklyshankly · Jul 21, 2017

So you're saying it's more like Destiny 0.5?

Icyflamez96 · Jul 21, 2017

flkraven said:
So it's the same, but worse then?

Are you the same, but trolling

jk i haven't played the beta so idk

Velocity:Design:Comfort · Jul 21, 2017

All the cooldown complaints are weird. Aren't all the premade gear pieces just entry level legendaries? How many people have exotic pieces that are the ones that give people 2 grenades, the feedbacking punch /nade loop etc? Not very many I assume. Plus Bungie could totally just tweak the rate 15-25% faster and it would feel good imo.

RoboPlato · Jul 21, 2017

Aside from the overly slow cool downs I'm enjoying D2 PvP a lot more. Doing far better than I usually do in MP games.

Walshicus · Jul 21, 2017

This makes the assumption that someone has any interest in the PvP. I bought Destiny 1 for the PvE, which is the same reason I doubt I'll buy Destiny 2.

RedFury · Jul 21, 2017

Don't see anything wrong with PvE, only issue with that in D1 was lack of content.

PvP however I feel they went to far to one side with D1 being on the opposite end of the spectrum like you said. I like the more methodical approach (good steps to make PvP more competitive) but have a few missteps cause by PvE balancing. They NEED to separate the two mode types is they ever want to achieve what they're clearly aiming for. 1 kill per clip is ridiculous though that makes the game more about numbers than actual player skill. I'd like to see a more player skill oriented balance more akin to Halo. With skill you could get 2 kills with a dmr/br, pistol, etc. With some luck (bumping into enemies low on health you could get away with more). Now same scenario with current model run into 2 guy one low on health the other full. Both start shooting at you you start shooting at 1. You either (taking out potato aim)

A. Get a kill because you got the low health enemy.

B. Got killed because you started shooting the full health opponent and got out dps by 2 enemies.

Possibility of great moments like a triple or quad kill are almost no existent outside of power weapons and supers now.

OP I suggest you make it clear your talking about PvP only otherwise you'll have people coming in here complaining about PvP to PvE balance. "Fuck PvP your a minority!", you just wait.

Edit: to late ^

Exploratory · Jul 21, 2017

Velocity:Design:Comfort said:
All the cooldown complaints are weird. Aren't all the premade gear pieces just entry level legendaries? How many people have exotic pieces that are the ones that give people 2 grenades, the feedbacking punch /nade loop etc? Not very many I assume. Plus Bungie could totally just tweak the rate 15-25% faster and it would feel good imo.

Yes but we gotta play the game we have. If Bungie just says yeah it'll be faster at launch that changes the discussion. And they have. We just don't know how fast so the game in front of us is what people will talk about. Regardless I doubt damage of grenades and melee will increase. They made a conscious decision to change the gameplay to revolve around primary fire.

border · Jul 21, 2017

They made some really abrupt changes, just to satiate the people that endlessly cried about how they got one-shotted by this or that. Like, that was kind of the charm. You could get killed in a split second, but you could also destroy others in a split second. Going on a shotgun rampage was fun as all hell. Was it chaotic? Yeah, but it was welcome chaos amid a world of same-y shooters full of underpowered grunt player characters. I wanted to be a superhuman fighting other superhumans, not a cannon fodder soldier who has to cling to his teammates to avoid getting shredded.

It seems like they want Destiny 2 PVP to be a sweaty Counterstrike match that is occaisionally punctuated by super moves or power weapons.

Pejo · Jul 21, 2017

I'm not a guy that enjoys competitive PVP much at all. I always felt that the Destiny 1 PVP was very palatable. It was kinda wild and unbalanced, but it didn't require you to be some god or even a team player to go in, play some rounds, and complete some quests/dailies/whatever. This new destiny PVP seems like Counterstrike, where you have to team play, play smart, etc. Not just run out with your ass out and try to shotgun someone before you end up dead.

It's really different, and for my money, worse.

If you're solo'ing through a PVP playlist, you're just plain done for when you go up against a clan team. It's fine for now since you're not trying to accomplish anything in particular in the beta, but imagine how tough this is going to be for "get 5 headshots in a row 6 times" or "get 5 multikills with grenades". I actually liked D1 PVP for what it was, a wild and grenade/special/shotgun filled mess.

Gaz_RB · Jul 21, 2017

Exploratory said:
I'm not saying it's a good thing I'm just saying its different from D1. D1 me and my sniper could get a double kill at any time. Using primary fire to kill people means combat is much slower. Feels way more different than the yearly COD changes for example.

But your argument is that D2 changed more from D1 than any game you've played.

Disregarding the inherent hyperbole in your OP, can you really make that argument with a straight face?

Just off the top of my head:

GTAIV>V
Destiny 1> The Taken King
Halo 2>3
Diablo>Diablo 2

Not to mention that Destiny 2 isn't held back by previous generations like D1. People were expecting a generational leap, and instead got the result of a pushy publisher hanging a big ass threat over Bungie's head.

All that said- Destiny 1 PVP was a masterpiece of gameplay. If it ain't broke, I guess don't fix it or try anything new or interesting.

Twilight Gap · Jul 21, 2017

flkraven said:
So it's the same, but worse then?

I think it's flat out terrible. It took 1 step forward and 10 steps backwards. I went back to D1 and I'd rather get shotgunned and supered for another 3 years than get spawn killed by a full team because it takes too long to kill one player.

The End · Jul 21, 2017

border said:
They made some really abrupt changes, just to satiate the people that endlessly cried about how they got one-shotted by this or that. Like, that was kind of the charm. You could get killed in a split second, but you could also destroy others in a split second. Going on a shotgun rampage was fun as all hell. Was it chaotic? Yeah, but it was welcome chaos amid a world of same-y shooters full of underpowered grunt player characters. I wanted to be a superhuman fighting other superhumans, not a cannon fodder soldier who has to cling to his teammates to avoid getting shredded.

It seems like they want Destiny 2 PVP to be a sweaty Counterstrike match that is occaisionally punctuated by super moves or power weapons.

Yep.

Lots of complaints blame bungie for chasing "esports" but it may be just the faction at bungie that preferred SWAT in Halo.

I'd be very curious to see how popular the Mayhem/Inferno playlists were in D1 as I always enjoyed D1 PVP with more abilities, shorter cooldowns, etc.

Gaz_RB · Jul 21, 2017

Twilight Gap said:
I think it's flat out terrible. It took 1 step forward and 10 steps backwards. I went back to D1 and I'd rather get shotgunned and supered for another 3 years than get spawn killed because I can't kill one person in under a second.

I feel you. Definitely gonna miss D1 style--it feels weird not being able to fall back on a shotgun.

Also for the love of god Bungie pick an FOV above 50.

WickedLaharl · Jul 21, 2017

I wish it was an xpac now cuz it's a sluggish turd.

RedFury · Jul 21, 2017

Twilight Gap said:
I think it's flat out terrible. It took 1 step forward and 10 steps backwards. I went back to D1 and I'd rather get shotgunned and supered for another 3 years than get spawn killed by a full team because it takes too long to kill one player.

I won't say it's terrible but yeah it's a numbers game now. That is ok in trials where it's about team positioning, etc. As an overall vision for all of PvP not so much. Weapons lack consistency I feel.

Papo Swing · Jul 21, 2017

Grom my experience on the beta i didn't like that it wasn't a patrol. I liked the strike a lot though.

But visually? I expected a lot more because I thought thw older gens were holding it back. I hope this translates into more areas then, but I doubt it. It seems like the game is too samey in PVE to feel like a full sequel and the changes done, like thw weapons types, seems stupid.

I want that weapon thing to remaing the ssme and just more variety and at least 1 new class.

Exploratory · Jul 21, 2017

Gaz_RB said:
But your argument is that D2 changed more from D1 than any game you've played.

Disregarding the inherent hyperbole in your OP, can you really make that argument with a straight face?

Just off the top of my head:

GTAIV>V
Destiny 1> The Taken King
Halo 2>3
Diablo>Diablo 2

Not to mention that Destiny 2 isn't held back by previous generations like D1. People were expecting a generational leap, and instead got the result of a pushy publisher hanging a big ass threat over Bungie's head.

All that said- Destiny 1 PVP was a masterpiece of gameplay. If it ain't broke, I guess don't fix it or try anything new or interesting.

I meant player v player in shooters specifically. Not every game ever. Yes Super MARIO 64 changed more than Destiny 2.

Twilight Gap · Jul 21, 2017

Gaz_RB said:
I feel you. Definitely gonna miss D1 style--it feels weird not being able to fall back on a shotgun.

Also for the love of god Bungie pick an FOV above 50.

I'm not touching the PvP if it launches like this. Honestly makes me not want to pick up and support the game until the PvP is [inevitably] overhauled again, which sucks because I'd miss the exploratory phase of PvE and feel left out until then.

TsuWave · Jul 21, 2017

border said:
It seems like they want Destiny 2 PVP to be a sweaty Counterstrike match that is occaisionally punctuated by super moves or power weapons.

I agree with this. Played for 3 hours with two friends yesterday, didn't lose one match but I wasn't having fun, it was constant "try-hardy" for lack of better words, you can't even move around without your team mates like that anymore

it's more draining than fun

RedFury · Jul 21, 2017

Exploratory said:
I meant player v player in shooters specifically. Not every game ever. Yes Super MARIO 64 changed more than Destiny 2.

I told you to be clear or this would happen lol. Destiny fans are a passionate fan base and PvE players are just as passionate as we are about PvP. When we argue about balance (and we mean PvP balance) they understand that a Destiny as a whole. Please change OP so we have the argument you mean and not turn into "Fuck PvP".

Reluctant-Hero · Jul 21, 2017

Titan Skating is still pretty legit.

Velocity:Design:Comfort · Jul 21, 2017

Exploratory said:
Yes but we gotta play the game we have. If Bungie just says yeah it'll be faster at launch that changes the discussion. And they have. We just don't know how fast so the game in front of us is what people will talk about. Regardless I doubt damage of grenades and melee will increase. They made a conscious decision to change the gameplay to revolve around primary fire.

Oh yeah, I agree, it feels fine dmg wise. Just meant the recharge speed, make it 33% faster and drop the dmg 10% and I think it would feel a lot better.

border · Jul 21, 2017

Cortana: "Bet you can't stick it!"
Master Chief: "What does it matter? You can't even kill people by sticking a grenade to them anymore."

So bizarre to see Bungie go against what's been a central tenet of their games for 17 years.

What if swords aren't a one-shot kill anymore either?

Strangelove77 · Jul 21, 2017

They made it extremely generic. If you thought Destiny 1 pvp was by the numbers shit, then you should try the beta. Bungie outdid itself and made one of the most bland and uninteresting pvps I've ever played.
There's absolutely nothing special about it anymore.
It'll still be popular though. As long as you dangle loot in front of people's faces they'll play anything.
Oh and the weapon loadouts are absolute shit too. They made that more boring as well. Which I didn't think was possible because I never imagined that was something to be fucked with and ruined.
Once again Bungie proved me wrong.

I feel like they're actively trying to weed out people who play solo. Like they want us gone or something, both from pve and pvp.

Twilight Gap · Jul 21, 2017

border said:
Cortana: "Bet you can't stick it!"
Master Chief: "What does it matter? You can't even kill people by sticking a grenade to them anymore."

So bizarre to see Bungie go against what's been a central tenet of their games for 17 years.

That's one of the changes I prefer. People would just run around and throw sticky nades. There shouldn't be any unassisted OHK abilities outside of supers and power weapons.

tearsintherain · Jul 21, 2017

In Destiny 1 I felt like with the right gear and abilities I was able to pull off amazing plays. In Destiny 2 it feels like you either stick together with a few other people or you WILL die and rarely kill someone else. The higher TTKs, lower damages, and small maps make it a teamkill game.

I'm sure people who always play in groups like that change, and it is more "fair", but to me its just not fun at all.

ch4fx_ · Jul 21, 2017

Destiny 1.30

fps

, to be exact.

JonVazMad · Jul 21, 2017

First time posting, long time lurking.

Don't really like the changes to PvP, this feels to much like a Destiny of Duty for my liking. i come from playing games like halo where you had a snipers playlist and br + snipers loadouts where beautiful to having bungie try to dictate what weapons people can use.

In Destiny 1 you had a chance if someone on your fireteam got booted or dropped, now? NOPE, you are done for. Players stick together like they are lemmings. People like me who put the f'ing time in to snipe and be good at it are now basically screwed. First they take away the special ammo but you could still use the ice breaker or no land beyond, but now they completely took it away, snipers as heavy? most STUPID thing ever.
- 1 vs 2? nope
- Trials 1 vs 3? DEAD

To make things "better" they added cooldowns to everything, even farts have cooldowns. ADS Cooldown??? Really???? Someone had to sit down and think you know what should be fun?, if you aim and then you can't know where enemies are coming from for like 2 seconds. And worse someone else had to approve this dumb idea.

#endrant

Symbiotx · Jul 21, 2017

Yeah Destiny 2 PvP feels way different, and I'm loving it. I think it still needs some adjustments, but I'm really excited for the full game after playing it.

I think the whole game is noticeably different though. Haters gonna hate.

JusDoIt · Jul 21, 2017

That sounds boring. I enjoyed Destiny's PvP because of how nuts it was.

bigJP · Jul 21, 2017

JonVazMad said:
First time posting, long time lurking.

Don't really like the changes to PvP, this feels to much like a Destiny of Duty for my liking. i come from playing games like halo where you had a snipers playlist and br + snipers loadouts where beautiful to having bungie try to dictate what weapons people can use.

In Destiny 1 you had a chance if someone on your fireteam got booted or dropped, now? NOPE, you are done for. Players stick together like they are lemmings. People like me who put the f'ing time in to snipe and be good at it are now basically screwed. First they take away the special ammo but you could still use the ice breaker or no land beyond, but now they completely took it away, snipers as heavy? most STUPID thing ever.
- 1 vs 2? nope
- Trials 1 vs 3? DEAD

To make things "better" they added cooldowns to everything, even farts have cooldowns. ADS Cooldown??? Really???? Someone had to sit down and think you know what should be fun?, if you aim and then you can't know where enemies are coming from for like 2 seconds. And worse someone else had to approve this dumb idea.

#endrant

wait, their is a cooldown for ADS?

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