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Sony shares rally on hopes it could see the best profit in 20 years

K

kaiyo

Member
AnotherDayAnotherDollar said:
...

Yes, it's about money. Why would it not be? I am a fan and loyal to no company and what I want - when I invest - is to make money. Spinning off and selling SPE will give me better return on my investment, why would I not want it? I have been wanting it for awhile, but Sony is stubborn. Their movie division has been struggling more and more in the last few years, both financially and in marketshare. They need to dump the movie division asap.
Click to expand...

So you would have wanted Sony to spin off/ dump PS division during the PS3 generation when they were losing billions?

Radec said:
This year don't.

XZs and XZ Premium isn't a better phone against other flagships this year. Unless you really like the design.

They keep half-assing the camera and in the US it doesn't come with a fingerprint sensor.
Click to expand...

What? 5.5" 4K HDR, SD850, 4gb ram, 64gb storage/micro SD expansion. And has probably most optimized Android, with the lowest crash rate. The Xperia XZ Premium is really competitive. Some are just complaining about the bezels.

Camera is also quite competitive too, especially video. And the fingerprint sensor is only disabled in the US. Just need to flash to international firmware to re-enable it.
 
D

duckroll

Member
kaiyo said:
So you would have wanted Sony to spin off/ dump PS division during the PS3 generation when they were losing billions?
Click to expand...

If there was a big potential buyer willing to take on the risk and invest in the division as a stand alone entity or integrate it into their core businesses, absolutely. That would have been something any shareholder would look forward to.

At this point if a big Chinese company wants to buy Sony Pictures Entertainment at a good price, Sony should sell. They've shown that they're not well equipped to run it.
 
T

thekiddfran

Member
Sesha said:
Let's look closer at Passengers. Take all of this with a pile of salt. I'm not versed in movie industry moneymaking math or statistics.

Production budget: 110m

This doesn't include marketing and distribution. We don't know how much that was, so let's say it was the same as the production budget, as it was a big budget movie that got a fair amount of marketing and screen presence WW.

Total budget: 220m

Now let's break down the box office take.

US BO: 100m
WW BO: 199m

US distributors' cut of the domestic BO take is about half. So let's say that's 50m.

WW distributors' cut is way more, but let's be generous and say they took 60%. 60% of 199 is about 119. So that would be 119m for the distributors, and 80m for the studio.

There might be percentages for the main actors, but we don't have any info pro or con so let's just assume there aren't.

So 50 + 80 = 130. Minus the costs of production and marketing/distribution budgets: 130 - 220 = -90.

That would equate to a $90m loss on Passengers. But there's creative Hollywood bookkeeping and subsidizing and stuff, so it's hard to say how much the studio actually spent, and how much of a loss or profit they would actually take.

Home distribution and licensing and syndication isn't all that much for most movies AFAIK (although I plead a lot of ignorance on this front so forgive me). I'm no expert and the numbers aren't accurate, but Passengers does not look like it made much money for SPE.
Click to expand...

I thought a movie is considered a success if it makes double its budget back?
 
E

Elandyll

Banned
thekiddfran said:
I thought a movie is considered a success if it makes double its budget back?
Click to expand...
Let's just say there is no way Passengers had a $110m marketing budget.

We just don't know.

Rule of thumb indeed is that (outside of marketing) a movie needs to make 2x its budget to be in the black.
Marketing cost is a blurry line, because a lot of its cost can be also be transfered over to the video release (signage, tv ads, online ads, trailer cutting, etc).

SPE isn't doing very well (yet), but it looks like some people actually believe they lost $900m for Sony last quarter (which was a terrible one), when it actually made $40m profit.

Recently:

UW 5: budget: $35m - WW gross: $81m (underperformed​, but in black)
RE7: budget: $40m - WW gross: $312m (overperformed)
Life: budget: $58m - WW gross: $74m (way underperformed given star appeal and reviews)
Smurfs TLB (still in theaters,): budget $60m - WW gross: $135m

To come

Spider-Man, The Dark Tower, Emoji Movie, Blade Runner (with WB), Jumanji for holidays...

They'll be fine
 
JimiNutz

JimiNutz

Banned
Futureman said:
I hope MS can do something with a Surface Phone. Would be cool to have 3 viable options. Even if they could just get around 15% marketshare they would get most of the big apps.

Sony should scrap their cell phones lines and just launch one flagship phone.
Click to expand...

I do agree that they need to significantly reduce the number of phones that they make but just one flagship may be too little. Maybe one flagship and one budget phone instead?
 
TLZ

TLZ

Banned
Toki767 said:
It's impressive how Kaz saved the company.
Click to expand...

04f7f08f8cff85fcc32f93dae6065c70.jpeg
 
P

Pie and Beans

Look for me on the local news, I'll be the guy arrested for trying to burn down a Nintendo exec's house.
Shitcan Sony PIctures and the lean, mean business team can perhaps stop having to tighten belts on everyone else every year for no reason.
 
K

Kysen

Member
Speaking of the PS division I think PSnow and VR were missteps. Both technologies too early for whats available currently. Won't be long before both of these start harming the bottom line.
 
A

AbandonedTrolley

Member
Nightengale said:
Mobile & Movies were Kaz's fail-points.

Doubly so for mobile since it was one of his big 3 pillars that he hoped Sony could become a core business, but unfortunately we know what happened with Xperia... =(
Click to expand...

Still looking to the XZ Premium when my contract ends in August unless anything else is out by then. Currently rocking a OP3T
 
Bioshocker

Bioshocker

Member
Getting rid of thousands of employees, selling off departments and restructuring the company pays off. Good to see, Sony was in a very bad shape for a long time.
 
E

ElBoxyBrown

Banned
mreddie said:
They're have try to do something with them. Kaz has to see them as a money drain.

Then again, I think Smurfs is doing decent.
Click to expand...

Smurfs bombed. Boss Baby destroyed any hope for that franchise. Then again no one cares about the Smurfs in 2017. Their movie devision is still doing poorly.
Magic Mushroom said:
At least the movie division has Spider-Man this year. That will make tons of money.
Click to expand...
And then they break off with Marvel to do the Spider-Man universe again despite failing the last time.
 
F

Floody

Member
Really incredible turn around if true, last gen Sony were looking like it was pretty much done, with no way to return. Well deserved though, they've released some great, reasonably priced products.

Anyway here's Kaz playing a Saxophone, seems fitting.
https://youtu.be/o5fp7AwWTvA?t=20s
 
M

MTC100

Banned
Nightengale said:
Mobile & Movies were Kaz's fail-points.

Doubly so for mobile since it was one of his big 3 pillars that he hoped Sony could become a core business, but unfortunately we know what happened with Xperia... =(
Click to expand...

The hard truth is: Sony doesn't stand a chance against Samsung. They were beaten in the Smartphone market and also have a hard time in the TV market, were LG and Samsung flood the TV space with cheap, yet good performing models and also cater to the TV enthusiasts...

It's sad cause their Bravia line is really good but when you see an equally good model of Samsung for 200 Bucks less, it's hard to chose Sony.
 
Nikodemos

Nikodemos

Member
They need to either challenge the patent troll in court or shitcan their US mobile ops.

As long as their power button fingerprint sensor (which, let's face it, is the absolutely most elegant location, especially given Sony's placement of it) is stonewalled by some fucknut, they'll never be competitive in the US. If winning a legal battle against whomever is holding that patent is impossible, they should reorient to other markets where they needn't compromise on this frankly vital part of any decent contemporary phone.

Oh, and cease churning out 6+ models each year. They had stopped doing for a while, but I see model inflation has started again. Decently priced 5'' mid-high-end, 5.5'' flagship, 6'' version of the mid-high-end and a 4.8'' version of the flagship (I find the current 4.6'' Compact size too small) is all they need. And stop using those fuck-awful low-end MediaTeks. Yes, I know they're cheap; there's a reason for that.
 
P

Poimandres

Member
Radec said:
This year don't.

XZs and XZ Premium isn't a better phone against other flagships this year. Unless you really like the design.

They keep half-assing the camera and in the US it doesn't come with a fingerprint sensor.
Click to expand...

Yeah they are definitely lagging behind. I really have no brand loyalty when it comes to phones... I go for the best feature/price/quality ratio. I won't be upgrading for a while anyway.
 
longdi

longdi

Banned
XZ Premium needs just a 4000mah battery and im in.

Sony also needs to get back in making a flagship mini-phone like they've pioneered.

Kaz actually turned around their TV division, Sony at least are now producing attractive high end TV. Here's hoping he turns the mobile around
 
J

jroc74

Phone reception is more important to me than human rights
Trojan said:
In fairness, there's a long line of once-prestigious companies that have been dunked on from mobile ventures. Microsoft, Amazon, Yahoo, Motorola, HTC, the list goes on. It's an extremely tough market to crack unless you're focusing only on software that is not an operating system named iOS or Android.

EDIT: Forgot to add Amazon to list of mobile's sacrifices
Click to expand...

Its amazing for MS, HTC, Motorola to not be doing so well with mobile.

So, with this news will that stop the carried by insurance posts, lol?

And even tho as a consumer it sucks, they should have been charging for online.
 
J

jroc74

Phone reception is more important to me than human rights
sinonobu said:
http://blog.hokanko-alt.com/archives/51147912.html

So apparently sony is hiring people for making 'gaming device' and a lot people are assuming that this is for Sony's new handheld.
Click to expand...

The Horror the horror said:
Why wouldn't it be PS5?
Click to expand...

Thats true, but a PS5 is a given. I would be pleasantly surprised if its a new handheld.

My thing is...how long ago was this blog post and is it a chance for whatever hardware it is to come in the next 2 years....
 
A

Apathy

Member
Toki767 said:
It's impressive how Kaz saved the company.
Click to expand...

The fact he took over and put more focus on the games division he was in charge of before, something that probably wouldn't have happen if one of the other possible candidates from the other divisions had taken over would have done. We might have seen a much different landscape in that timeline.

Sharpeye said:
The movie division needs to be set straight, but Sony has had a great comeback the past few years overall.
Click to expand...
To be fair he's recently started to put his focus on the movie and TV division, something he didn't seem to have the time for previously
 
S

sems4arsenal

Member
Spiderman will help with their mediocre movie record. Their phones are getting better though, I'm intrigued by their XZ lineups.

Good on them though.
 
M

Mokubba

Member
XZ Premium looks great.
A9 sounds like a beast of a camera.
Their new OLED TV covers their bases alongside their LCD flagship, the Z9.

Things are looking good but still a lot more work to be done.

Radec said:
This year don't.

XZs and XZ Premium isn't a better phone against other flagships this year. Unless you really like the design.

They keep half-assing the camera and in the US it doesn't come with a fingerprint sensor.
Click to expand...

http://www.gsmarena.com/weekly_poll_results_xperia_xz_premium_voted_best_h1_flagship_galaxy_s8_comes_in_at_a_close_second-news-24659.php

Won't mean the XZP will beat the Samsung in sales but with its screen and camera tech, it's the most exciting flagship Sony has made in years and definitely better than a lot of the other flagships out there IMO.
 
Papacheeks

Papacheeks

Banned
DarkConfidant said:
I say it every quarter: They need to let both the movie business go and their phone business. Spin them off and sell them. Others can probably manage them better anyway.
For too long Sony has been a hydra whose own heads try to bite each other off.
Click to expand...

Well when Spiderman Homecoming makes close to 800 million this summer I don't think Sony Pictures will see it as a sign to sell.

Also they are doing Dark Tower, so there's a boatload of money right there.
 
S

sturgboski

Member
jroc74 said:
Thats true, but a PS5 is a given. I would be pleasantly surprised if its a new handheld.

My thing is...how long ago was this blog post and is it a chance for whatever hardware it is to come in the next 2 years....
Click to expand...

I want to believe it's a new Sony Handheld system that is backwards compatible with PSP and Vita (or at least anything that doesn't require rear touchpad) in a Switch form factor.
 
E

Elandyll

Banned
duckroll said:
If there was a big potential buyer willing to take on the risk and invest in the division as a stand alone entity or integrate it into their core businesses, absolutely. That would have been something any shareholder would look forward to.

At this point if a big Chinese company wants to buy Sony Pictures Entertainment at a good price, Sony should sell. They've shown that they're not well equipped to run it.
Click to expand...
Lol. No.

SPE carries a fuck ton of IPs (it would be worth nothing to sell without), and they did make money even in the (horrible) last quarter.

Have we missed that RE7 did 8x its budget and the rest of the year lineup is almost guaranteed to make a good chunk of money?
 
B

Boke1879

Member
Elandyll said:
Lol. No.

SPE carries a fuck ton of IPs (it would be worth nothing to sell without), and they did make money even in the (horrible) last quarter.

Have we missed that RE7 did 8x its budget and the rest of the year lineup is almost guaranteed to make a good chunk of money?
Click to expand...

Isn't Spiderman coming out this Summer? Almost promised to do big numbers.
 
X

/XX/

Member
sinonobu said:
http://blog.hokanko-alt.com/archives/51147912.html

So apparently sony is hiring people for making 'gaming device' and a lot people are assuming that this is for Sony's new handheld.
Click to expand...
The Horror the horror said:
Why wouldn't it be PS5?
Click to expand...
Because that rumour references job listings for tests of prototyping manufacture in a fab line at SGMO Kisarazu Site (what was previously known as Sony EMCS Kisarazu TEC Site), assembly factory responsible of domestic manufacturing for previous SCEI products and in which they still make limited runs of more recent devices for SIE Inc., like the PS4 (as of February of this year; https://www.sony.co.jp/pressroom/biz/electronics/base_japan_20170202.pdf).

Mass-production trials of a next-generation platform system successor to the PS4 this early seems unlikely. But it could also be a complementary peripheral instead, not just a new portable console.
 
Nikana

Nikana

Go Go Neo Rangers!
Boke1879 said:
Isn't Spiderman coming out this Summer? Almost promised to do big numbers.
Click to expand...

I'm sort of ignorant about what Sony expects from Spiderman because last I read didn't they pull the plug on Amazing Spiderman because the second one only did like 800 million?

The rumor that Spiderman isn't involved in the Venom project at all also just baffles me.
 
D

DieH@rd

Banned
Nikana said:
I'm sort of ignorant about what Sony expects from Spiderman because last I read didn't they pull the plug on Amazing Spiderman because the second one only did like 800 million?

The rumor that Spiderman isn't involved in the Venom project at all also just baffles me.
Click to expand...

If there is any justice in the world, Venom HAS to be R-rated, and Marvel is aiming for MCU to be family friendly. If Sony has an awesome story, they should make the film, especially if the plot of the movie is set out of the Earth [~ homeworld of the symbiote race, their exile and arrival on earth].

Sony is also [wide] releasing an animated non-MCU Spider Man film centred on Miles Morales that is helmed by Lord and Miller.
 
entremet

entremet

Member
Outside of financial services, insurance and returing to gaming form, which the consistently dominate, where's the turnaround, guys?

Their phones are not found in big markets.

Their TV division continues to underperform.

Their movie division is a dud.

In terms of CE, they are irrevelant, with the Korean and Chineses companies eating their lunch.
 
A

Apathy

Member
entremet said:
Outside of financial services, insurance and returing to gaming form, which the consistently dominate, where's the turnaround, guys?

Their phones are not found in big markets.

Their TV division continues to underperform.

Their movie division is a dud.

In terms of CE, they are irrevelant, with the Korean and Chineses companies eating their lunch.
Click to expand...

Optics/camera sensors.
 
Y

Y2Kev

TLG Fan Caretaker Est. 2009
entremet said:
Outside of financial services, insurance and returing to gaming form, which the consistently dominate, where's the turnaround, guys?

Their phones are not found in big markets.

Their TV division continues to underperform.

Their movie division is a dud.

In terms of CE, they are irrevelant, with the Korean and Chineses companies eating their lunch.
Click to expand...

that is the turnaround. This is like asking where the turnaround in the typewriter business is.

You exit the markets and shrink the company and invest in profitable divisions. For example, cut the CE business and focus on industrial imaging.

Movies are a hit based business. I don't really get the appeal of the business.

Sonys results are uneven. But I don't understand people pointing out accounting adjustments now (when charges are reversing) but freaking out when all the noncash losses were being taken. It's been obvious for a long time the Sony phone business was not going to work.
 
entremet

entremet

Member
Y2Kev said:
that is the turnaround. This is like asking where the turnaround in the typewriter business is.

You exit the markets and shrink the company and invest in profitable divisions. For example, cut the CE business and focus on industrial imaging.
Click to expand...
Well they were bloated for decades. I'm just not seeing them gaining their CE mindshare back ever. And I do think they should drop that TV division.

Their cameras are great, but smartphones are helping shrink that market.
 
E

Elandyll

Banned
Y2Kev said:
that is the turnaround. This is like asking where the turnaround in the typewriter business is.

You exit the markets and shrink the company and invest in profitable divisions. For example, cut the CE business and focus on industrial imaging.

Movies are a hit based business. I don't really get the appeal of the business.

Sonys results are uneven. But I don't understand people pointing out accounting adjustments now (when charges are reversing) but freaking out when all the noncash losses were being taken. It's been obvious for a long time the Sony phone business was not going to work.
Click to expand...
Evergreen sales of content you own, which has already (mostly) paid for itself during the initial release.
Heck, Sony even owns DADC (as well as digital portals for the future).
 
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