NotTheGuyYouKill
Member
So is Sigourney Weaver gonna play Danny's mom in Defenders? They never found her body... And such.
-
Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
Marvel's Iron Fist *SPOILER THREAD* |OT| Big Trouble in Little NY
- Thread starter TheOddOne
- Start date
- Status
Sigh.... i went into this knowing the mixed reviews and i think i have to admit that i agree with some (not all) of the criticisms.
1) i really wish the fights were better
2) dannys ramen hair cut was super annoying
3) they had a tough time balancing realism and the mysticallity of iron fist
4) the oversexualizarion of joy and colleen was too distracting. Tight skirts with shots of her butt and cleavage constantly...
5) etc
Now i did enjoy the show, i wouldnt say its bad, but tbh it couldve been 10x better
Edit: another problem i see is that somehow the comics are actually going to come out looking like they have a better story somehow
1) i really wish the fights were better
2) dannys ramen hair cut was super annoying
3) they had a tough time balancing realism and the mysticallity of iron fist
4) the oversexualizarion of joy and colleen was too distracting. Tight skirts with shots of her butt and cleavage constantly...
5) etc
Now i did enjoy the show, i wouldnt say its bad, but tbh it couldve been 10x better
Edit: another problem i see is that somehow the comics are actually going to come out looking like they have a better story somehow
Everything here, save that I'd like to see a soft reboot for a second season, so they can start to rectify this mess and salvage the character.
The final battle was awful. There's no reason Mr. "I'm the goddamned Iron Fist" should've struggled for two seconds against Harold. I can suspend disbelief here and there for necessary tension, but that was just laughably bad; the entire last episode was just a writing mess of the first order.
The endless flashbacks of Danny's mom getting sucked out of the plane for the first six or seven episodes was absurd, as was his inability to get over his PTSD after 15 years of elite training and meditation. It just made a mockery of the character's origin story.
The show picked up after 3 or so episodes, but the first few episodes were painfully bad (especially the pilot, which made Danny seem like an entirely unlikeable creeper). Even then it never really went anywhere. Stylistically, it was all over the map. Sometimes it seemed like it was going to do a 70s martial arts film styled flashback, only to pull back, and quickly cut to some other meandering sequence.
The show just shouldn't have gone out the door as it did.
Sectorseven
Member
Was the opening of episode 6 referencing Spider-man?
Damn you heard it here first. Only ONE Asian allowed.
If you mean the woman working with the spiders, no. She's a powerful character in her own right that was criminally misused here.
Not trying to come from a place of confrontation, but sincerely: why is it such a big deal if rand is played by an asian actor?
MHWilliams
Member
Rand and Iron Fist is just an area where some felt an Asian-American actor would fit and in general Asian-American or Asian representation is rather low in the Marvel and DC cinematic universes. The other characters, notably Jessica Jones, could have equally been Asian-American, though Daredevil's Irish Catholic background ends up being a big aspect of the character and Luke Cage's specific setting makes it more likely for him to be black. Then there's pushback, mostly because folks insist that Rand needs to be white, and then we have an internet argument. Before all this, I noted that Iron Fist would diverge heavily from the source material, and I was largely correct. As I pointed out earlier, folks seem to have no issues with the other racial changes, like Davos.
The truth is, we're not getting Shang Chi and even if we were, Shang Chi would not get his own show, because he treads similar ground as Iron Fist. There was a hope that the character might appear in Iron Fist, but that show has other things to do, even in a potential second season.
If you're wondering why fictional representation is important, that's a much larger argument. I can relate to many characters, but for me personally, Lando in Star Wars was a huge moment for me as a kid. Emotionally, seeing a character like themselves feels important to people. That's the larger picture that extend beyond Iron Fist.
NotTheGuyYouKill
Member
Is drunk Kung Fu guy the one who auditioned for the role of Danny?
This show needs more comedy
This show needs more comedy
MHWilliams
Member
Yes, Lewis Tan played Zhou Cheng and lobbied heavily to play Rand in the show.
It's worth noting that Davos' actor, Sacha Dhawan, also lacks an martial arts experience.
Maintenance
Member
God damn it.
NotTheGuyYouKill
Member
Just finished episode 8, and Zhou Cheng is definitely a highlight. This dude is awesome. I want more of him.
Thanks for the response. To answer your second point first, i understand and agree with fictional representation in media. As a brazilian-american with blood from the black side of the country, no need for us to debate that lol.
With that said, the reason why i asked is because ive actually read some of the comics (not as much as i would have liked) but he was always portrayed more white than asian. With the show being so far away from the source, i kind of agree now with him being played by an asian actor.
Especially reading the comment about the guy who played the drunken fighter! Wow! He did such a great job. I feel bad for the guy who was cast, i doubt he would have signed up knowing how poorly his performance would have come across due to the reported production issues
Razgriz-Specter
Member
Davos was far more believable for me,
which Is funny considering his last role I kept thinking of
Manmeet on Outsourced.
NotTheGuyYouKill
Member
The scene where Harold murders Kyle is really fucked up.
Harold casually doing these crazy violent things is actually kinda freaky. Between this and him hammering dude's teeth.
Harold casually doing these crazy violent things is actually kinda freaky. Between this and him hammering dude's teeth.
It's not a big deal to me but is it not laughable to say that if Danny Rand was played by an Asian we can never have Shang Chi? Like how does that make sense? Only only Asian hero allowed? There's a quota?
NotTheGuyYouKill
Member
Honestly, none of the writing in this show makes a case for Danny Rand to be a white guy. He could be literally any ethnicity and the show would still be the same.
Especially since Davos shows that K'un Lun is multicultural and they so barely talk about him being an outsider they might have not brought it up. Honestly i don't have a dog in this argument and controversy but they kind of undermine the reason for him being white.
We are the immortals, there can be only one.
That seems to be the rule, as they wouldn't even let Davos be Chinese. He's technically Asian yes, but when Lewis Tan said they gave him another part I thought immediately it would be Davos; because what reason would you even change that for. And for a guy with no martial arts experience either.
Should've played Danny
HomerSimpson-Man
Member
I ended up enjoying the show with the lower expectations.
It's really apparent with the lower budget and real odd pacing to straight up lack of fights at times in this series. Reading how they literally only had 3 weeks to train the main actor and only got like 15 min of prep time right before filming the fights, makes a lot of sense now. Just giving an extra week of prep would have made a huge difference, but this is really the results of the higher ups not knowing are giving a damn. Daredevil tights are on a completely higher level than Iron Fist.
Wait wait hold, up we had an actor that had a strong background with martial art up for the role of Danny!?
Oh, come the f' on! I guess it really wasn't a coincidence he had the better more complex fight scene in the series. And they didn't even give the man the bigger role of Davos? Huh.
It's really apparent with the lower budget and real odd pacing to straight up lack of fights at times in this series. Reading how they literally only had 3 weeks to train the main actor and only got like 15 min of prep time right before filming the fights, makes a lot of sense now. Just giving an extra week of prep would have made a huge difference, but this is really the results of the higher ups not knowing are giving a damn. Daredevil tights are on a completely higher level than Iron Fist.
Wait wait hold, up we had an actor that had a strong background with martial art up for the role of Danny!?
Oh, come the f' on! I guess it really wasn't a coincidence he had the better more complex fight scene in the series. And they didn't even give the man the bigger role of Davos? Huh.
Just finished earlier tonight. The way I feel about this show is how Harold feel about Ward.
This show had to much potential in the beginning, it supposed to be the best out of the four. But instead with every passing episode, it couldn't pull itself out of mediocrity. It's especially sad considering the quick flashes of greatness sprinkled throughout. In the end, I just feel disappointment.
This show had to much potential in the beginning, it supposed to be the best out of the four. But instead with every passing episode, it couldn't pull itself out of mediocrity. It's especially sad considering the quick flashes of greatness sprinkled throughout. In the end, I just feel disappointment.
Alpha Centauri
Member
Besides the new Skip Intro button, Claire remains the best part of the Marvel Netflix shows. Also, the directors all seem to have quite the crush on her, on account of them keeping her in booty shorts the entire season. I certainly won't complain.
The show was a bit all over the place and pacing suffered in early episodes. It started to pick up steam, but ultimately fizzled out again towards the end. Worst of the netflix series' but I still enjoyed it for the most part.
Why did they make Joy and Davos go evil? That came out of left field...
The show was a bit all over the place and pacing suffered in early episodes. It started to pick up steam, but ultimately fizzled out again towards the end. Worst of the netflix series' but I still enjoyed it for the most part.
Why did they make Joy and Davos go evil? That came out of left field...
cant have that, too progressive
Damn it.
firehawk12
Subete no aware
I think you're forgetting the greatest hero of them all, QUAKE!
Oh right. Chloe "I had to put Bennet on the form to get the job" Wang.
firehawk12
Subete no aware
She counts as much as Keanu!
Spikematic
Member
I'm glad there are others who liked the inclusion of Claire. I know some are annoyed by the fact she's shoehorned into everything, but IMO she's a very welcome addition simply because she oozes screen presence and charisma and I love her no-nonsense "not this shit again" attitude. The fact she is absolutely gorgeous and is a genuinely good actress also helps of course.
PanSexual_Peacock
Member
I'm pretty sure this guy campaigned for Nightwing after it was announced. He looks the part.
firehawk12
Subete no aware
It's weird that she's the Nick Fury of this corner of the universe though. It makes NYC seem like a small village, particularly how she's introduced in this series anyway.
Hours Left
Member
Rosario was one of the few people who managed to make the dialogue almost sound natural. She was a much needed presence IMO.
Razgriz-Specter
Member
Can someone point me to some good Iron Fist stories?
As much as I disliked this i'd still like to see some good stuff from the character.
As much as I disliked this i'd still like to see some good stuff from the character.
Spikematic
Member
AFAIK she worked in Hell's Kitchen so she was in the vicinity of Matt and Jessica in DD and JJ. And in Luke Cage she came to Harlem where her mom lives/works and to help Luke out. And at the end of that show you see her pick one of Coleen's fliers and decides to join her dojo to learn some fighting. So in Iron Fist she happens to be there. Yeah, of course it's reaching a bit, but her presence is not that unbelievable. I've personally run into the same people in way more random places/situations in real life to be honest! In any case, she's great and hope she sticks around. I'm kinda worried they may actually off her in the Defenders for a big emotional moment or something and to make way for Jessica and Luke to get together. That'd be a bit too much like Coulson biting the dust in The Avengers though, so really hope they don't!
firehawk12
Subete no aware
I don't mind her being in every show, since she's basically the only thing that connects all four together in an explicit manner. I think I would have been fine if she was just the doctor who ended up helping everyone because they all went to the same hospital or something. It's just a bit silly this time around - it'd be like if she went to a library to find a book on spiders and accidentally met Spider-man, who was doing research in order to learn how to use spider powers or something.
LordRaptor
Member
The more I think about it, the more I think Ep6 is the biggest indicator of one of their previous directions they were thinking of taking the show - that Danny Rand is sort of actually crazy and its unclear if K'un Lun is a real thing or a symptom of mental illness, and if he actually has powers or not.
Some of the story beats make more sense that way (like the emphasis on him in the mental hospital), and him talking to people aren't there (but only in that episode) I can see it would have worked as a treatment, especially if it had been kept ambiguous to the audience until a final pay off where he gets his shit together enough to actually use the iron fist , but obviously would have meant even less actual power usage, and his relationship with Davos in particular would have needed to be very different.
Having said that, it would have basically shut the door on ever seeing good old Fist Of Khonshu showing up, because thats exactly the sort of take that show would need - I do still like the concept thats partially explored in ep6 that on one level theres a spiritual battle between the avatars of ancient mystical sects, and on another level its basically bumfights in an abandoned warehouse.
Some of the story beats make more sense that way (like the emphasis on him in the mental hospital), and him talking to people aren't there (but only in that episode) I can see it would have worked as a treatment, especially if it had been kept ambiguous to the audience until a final pay off where he gets his shit together enough to actually use the iron fist , but obviously would have meant even less actual power usage, and his relationship with Davos in particular would have needed to be very different.
Having said that, it would have basically shut the door on ever seeing good old Fist Of Khonshu showing up, because thats exactly the sort of take that show would need - I do still like the concept thats partially explored in ep6 that on one level theres a spiritual battle between the avatars of ancient mystical sects, and on another level its basically bumfights in an abandoned warehouse.
fallengorn
Bitches love smiley faces
Nudge me when he has an acting reel.
This was boring. The kind of boring it doesn't even deserve hate, it just... I dunno, it was on the background. It was wallpaper.
-
I think they just botched the whole thing, really. The last time I caught myself re-writing the script in my head was during Jessica Alba's Fantastic Four, another boring movie.
They should have went comedy with this. Danny should have been a reckless goof.
Everything else would just haved clicked from there. Keep the boring story about boring childhood boring friends boring rich boring people boring boring, whatever, if Danny was a happy idiot who somehow was also the greatest martial artist on the planet, the whole thing would have worked. Instead he is super serious boring guy, which is not the Iron Fist from the comics.
Respecting the comics works for a reason: decades of natural selection and horrible stories until these characters find their voices. Danny's voice is not serious mceverything-is-so-important-I-must-defeat-my-enemies-because-honor-bla-bla-bla, he is a happy guy who enjoys being around people. Make this a Jackie Chan movie and your horrible script is salvaged.
-
I think they just botched the whole thing, really. The last time I caught myself re-writing the script in my head was during Jessica Alba's Fantastic Four, another boring movie.
They should have went comedy with this. Danny should have been a reckless goof.
Everything else would just haved clicked from there. Keep the boring story about boring childhood boring friends boring rich boring people boring boring, whatever, if Danny was a happy idiot who somehow was also the greatest martial artist on the planet, the whole thing would have worked. Instead he is super serious boring guy, which is not the Iron Fist from the comics.
Respecting the comics works for a reason: decades of natural selection and horrible stories until these characters find their voices. Danny's voice is not serious mceverything-is-so-important-I-must-defeat-my-enemies-because-honor-bla-bla-bla, he is a happy guy who enjoys being around people. Make this a Jackie Chan movie and your horrible script is salvaged.
HisImperialMajesty
Member
Dude has played an Asian gangster in every possible procedural NCIS type show. Not his fault that a racist Hollywood doesn't know what to do with him.
The Fraction/Brubaker run from 2008 is still the best.
https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/17899563-the-immortal-iron-fist
fallengorn
Bitches love smiley faces
It's unfortunate, but you're missing the broader point I was making. It's great to have someone who's physically trained, but you need someone who can act. That one scene didn't really show a whole lot. I'd like to see more from him.
Yeah, they're all situated in areas in NYC. Like DD is primarily in Hell's Kitchen. JJ also, for the most part. LC was in Harlem. IF was primarily going back between Chinatown and Midtown East.
Razgriz-Specter
Member
Thanks.
The bar can't be that high considering Finn Jones got the role.
- Status
Similar threads
- Poll