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Noisepurge · Jan 3, 2013

i doubt they would enforce it on the console like this.

But, i do see that they could use the tech as a new Online Pass -system. The chip registers the first console its being used on, grants you multiplayer features. Then if its a used disc, you will have to buy the 10$ pass from the store.

Wolf Akela · Jan 3, 2013

outunderthestars said:
I was wondering if gamestop could develop a device that simply resets the RFID tag to "new" status.

There would be lawsuits up their ass.

Such a device would do great in the black market though.

shinra-bansho · Jan 3, 2013

Am I reading this incorrectly or is this akin to a networkless system level online pass? Except it wouldn't necessarily be designed to restrict access to online only - with an intent to monetize used game sales?

michaelius · Jan 3, 2013

99% said:
Unless you think you can resell your copy of Windows that you bought on DVD.

Hmm you can ?

Eusis · Jan 3, 2013

outunderthestars said:
I was wondering if gamestop could develop a device that simply resets the RFID tag to "new" status.

That probably counts as circumventing copy protection and thus violating the DMCA. Though for all we know they might work out a deal that they're ALLOWED to reset this, and so it ends up hurting lent copies and eBay more than GameStop.

... That actually seems more repulsive in some ways, and given how GameStop's been more quickly abandoning prior generation would not be acceptable as it COULD have been under Funcoland in the 90s.

Sid · Jan 3, 2013

Noisepurge said:
i doubt they would enforce it on the console like this.

But, i do see that they could use the tech as a new Online Pass -system. The chip registers the first console its being used on, grants you multiplayer features. Then if its a used disc, you will have to buy the 10$ pass from the store.

What if my console breaks?i'll need to re buy my own game?

saunderez · Jan 3, 2013

Wolf Akela said:
There would be lawsuits up their ass.

Such a device would do great in the black market though.

I can imagine it now. A shifty looking dude standing outside of Gamespot, offers to reset your games for a couple of bucks a piece increasing your resale value.

meta4 · Jan 3, 2013

Subscribe to ps plus to play used games. lol

outunderthestars · Jan 3, 2013

Noisepurge said:
i doubt they would enforce it on the console like this.

But, i do see that they could use the tech as a new Online Pass -system. The chip registers the first console its being used on, grants you multiplayer features. Then if its a used disc, you will have to buy the 10$ pass from the store.

That makes so much sense that there is no way Sony would do that.

oconnomiyaki · Jan 3, 2013

Imagine if all cars needed to be bought new...

Anyway, if something like this was implemented, I'd be likely to buy fewer games. I do buy used but that's not why -- I would be less likely to take a gamble on a game that I knew I'd be stuck with if I didn't like it. I'd stick to the big hitters I knew I wanted and would buy new anyway. Can't imagine I'm alone in that.

Mael · Jan 3, 2013

Sid said:
What if my console breaks?i'll need to re buy my own game?

Thing is they'll argue that you never bought them in the 1rst place, you were renting them the whole time you thieving scumbags!
Now hand over your wallet!

Combichristoffersen · Jan 3, 2013

Noisepurge said:
i doubt they would enforce it on the console like this.

But, i do see that they could use the tech as a new Online Pass -system. The chip registers the first console its being used on, grants you multiplayer features. Then if its a used disc, you will have to buy the 10$ pass from the store.

I don't play MP so I wouldn't object to a solution like that.

kingkitty · Jan 3, 2013

99% said:
Movies have many revenue streams. First in cinemas, then dvd/br, then tv...

Games have DLC, season passes, exclusive pre-order bonuses.

And in 2011 the video game industry was worth like 65 billion, which is nothing to sneeze at.

Dennis · Jan 3, 2013

Oh well, Sony had a good run.

From the stunning successes of PS1 and PS2 to driving headlong into a ditch in slow motion.

SparkTR · Jan 3, 2013

I don't know if this will end up in the system, but this mindset is why Sony is taking a beating in other markets.

Callibretto · Jan 3, 2013

hmm the more I think about this, I think this is mainly more about linking a game to your online account. preventing the used game is the side effect, I bet if they implement this system, you'll be able to buy $10 activation thing like the current online pass we already have for online enabled games.

I think platform holder know there's no way they can block used game sales massive backlash, at the same time, I'm sure they've been looking at the money generated from used game sales and want a piece of that used game sales money. online pass is their solution for online enabled game. with this new patent, they can implement that to all their games, online or offline.

so I think used games sales will still exist, but the pricing from gamestop will probably changed a little since now consumer will have to pay additional fee to activate their used game disc

Sid · Jan 3, 2013

Mael said:
Thing is they'll argue that you never bought them in the 1rst place, you were renting them the whole time you thieving scumbags!
Now hand over your wallet!

See,now that's BS i buy all my games new and i hope this doesn't affect the buyers buying non used games.

Gustav · Jan 3, 2013

As if I'd buy any game on physical media next gen. Shit is over.

Auto_aim1 · Jan 3, 2013

Gofreak, do you have a link or something of the said patent?

Data West · Jan 3, 2013

kingkitty said:
Games have DLC, season passes, exclusive pre-order bonuses.

And in 2011 the video game industry was worth like 65 billion, which is nothing to sneeze at.

GOTY editions as well as Steam sales.

Can we stop pretending games only make money once?

gofreak · Jan 3, 2013

Meisadragon said:
Gofreak, do you have a link or something of the said patent?

Oops, sorry. Here you go:

http://www.freepatentsonline.com/y2013/0007892.html

Hydrogen Bluebird · Jan 3, 2013

gofreak said:
Oops, sorry. Here you go:

http://www.freepatentsonline.com/y2013/0007892.html

Wow, So Sony patented it last September.

Callibretto · Jan 3, 2013

Sid said:
See,now that's BS i buy all my games new and i hope this doesn't affect the buyers buying non used games.

hopefully when you bought retail games and it's linked to the console, it will also add the game to your psn account 'download list', so not only you owned the game disc physically, you also have the game digitally since I assume all retail games will be available as digital download since day one for next gen.

oconnomiyaki · Jan 3, 2013

This would neuter renting, as well as just lending a game to a mate. Is it really worth all the bad blood that woukd entale just for a slight increase in game sales?

Sid · Jan 3, 2013

Callibretto said:
hopefully when you bought retail games and it's linked to the console, it will also add the game to your psn account 'download list', so not only you owned the game disc physically, you also have the game digitally since I assume all retail games will be available as digital download since day one for next gen.

How likely is that though? wouldn't it incur additional costs for sony?

Used-ID · Jan 3, 2013

I could see this work for business software, OS's, PC programs, movies distributed to theaters, cellphone/tablets, car alarms,etc. Basically replacing the old serial/parallel/USB hardware dongles.

In this new world of patent lawsuits, I'd rather have Sony have something like this because they'll sit on it (they could only realistically do movie theaters) versus Apple or Microsoft that can truly force adoption of this kind of DRM.

Sony just doesn't have the brand power or a consumer market they can use this with due to competition.

Auto_aim1 · Jan 3, 2013

gofreak said:
Oops, sorry. Here you go:

http://www.freepatentsonline.com/y2013/0007892.html

Thanks, so the justification for creating such a tech is basically due to the revenue lost--not surprising at all. By the time this is granted the PS4 will be already out in the market I think.

Mael · Jan 3, 2013

Donutta said:
This would neuter renting, as well as just lending a game to a mate. Is it really worth all the bad blood that woukd entale just for a slight increase in game sales?

I don't even buy fucking Blu Rays because I'm not even sure everyone got a player yet!
This alone makes the whole worthless, if I can't lend a game to a friend there's no point whatsoever in even getting it and keeping it in the first place!

phosphor112 · Jan 3, 2013

Maybe this isn't used to "suppress" second hand game sales, but to remove the need for online cd keys for first time buyers? I'm tired of inputing that shit every time I buy a new game...

Vinterbird · Jan 3, 2013

Whether it's a good or bad thing for the consumer and industry is hard to say, but at least the idea is clever.

But it would be terrible when someone in the future makes a little machine that can tag all RF tags on a store shelf to one console, making the store sell invalid games.

Eusis · Jan 3, 2013

Vinterbird said:
But it would be terrible when someone in the future makes a little machine that can tag all RF tags on a store shelf to one console, making the store sell invalid games.

Or would it be terrible? Having something like that happen can be the sort of destructive event that kills initiatives like this as they stop being worth the pursuit.

Oersted · Jan 3, 2013

Are people already in defend mode?

I have often enough bought used games at fairs I wouldnt normally get in my local area. An implementation of this would suck.

Tim the Wiz · Jan 3, 2013

Gaming companies really think this is going to boost their revenue? I don't think the backlash will be especially large in real terms, but I don't see this as anything but a hindrance to consumers and long-term console retention.

Combichristoffersen · Jan 3, 2013

Mael said:
I don't even buy fucking Blu Rays because I'm not even sure everyone got a player yet!
This alone makes the whole worthless, if I can't lend a game to a friend there's no point whatsoever in even getting it and keeping it in the first place!

So you buy movies and games primarily to lend them to friends and not because you want to watch the movies or play the games yourself?

Noisepurge · Jan 3, 2013

Sid said:
What if my console breaks?i'll need to re buy my own game?

I dunno, hey, this is all speculation

Would make the most sense if everything was tied to your account instead of the actual hardware. And only Nintendo so far has tied stuff hardwarewise. (and Singstar on the PS3)

Mael said:
I don't even buy fucking Blu Rays because I'm not even sure everyone got a player yet!

you wait for _everyone_ to have a bluray player before you start buying vastly superior quality movies for your own enjoyment?

what an odd stance!

Vinterbird · Jan 3, 2013

Eusis said:
Or would it be terrible? Having something like that happen can be the sort of destructive event that kills initiatives like this as they stop being worth the pursuit.

It would be terrible, because if it became reality Sony couldn't just magically release a machine the next day without the technology and it would cost them a insane amount of money to retool everything if something like that happened.

In regards to used game sales: Has there ever been any research into the matter in terms of benefitting the industry? Is it proven it would generate more money for publishers in the long run when a lot of people take the used games money and put it toward new product?

Mr.Squirrel · Jan 3, 2013

phosphor112 said:
Maybe this isn't used to "suppress" second hand game sales, but to remove the need for online cd keys for first time buyers? I'm tired of inputing that shit every time I buy a new game...

According to the present embodiment, realized is the electronic content processing system that reliably restricts the use of electronic content dealt in the second-hand markets. As a result, the dealing of electronic content in the second-hand markets is suppressed, which in turn supports the redistribution of part of proceeds from sales of the electronic content to the developers. Though in the following description a game application (AP) is exemplified as the electronic content, the present embodiment is similarly applicable to various kinds of electronic content such as an office suite, images, and music content.

It specifically says it's use is to suppress the sale of games in the 2nd hand markey.

Sid · Jan 3, 2013

Noisepurge said:
I dunno, hey, this is all speculation Would make the most sense if everything was tied to your account instead of the actual hardware. And only Nintendo so far has tied stuff hardwarewise. (and Singstar on the PS3)

you wait for _everyone_ to have a bluray player before you start buying vastly superior quality movies for your own enjoyment? what an odd stance!

IDK man,the new buyer could end up getting screwed in the process.

Noisepurge · Jan 3, 2013

bdizzle said:
It specifically says it's use is to suppress the sale of games in the 2nd hand markey.

but the Project 10$ / Online Pass -systems ARE suppression tools already.

Sapphire Dreams · Jan 3, 2013

I am seriously sick of all this anti-consumer bullshit we've been getting as of recent, I might boycott next generation if this is turned out to be true and stick to PC.

Used-ID · Jan 3, 2013

Noisepurge said:
I dunno, hey, this is all speculation Would make the most sense if everything was tied to your account instead of the actual hardware. And only Nintendo so far has tied stuff hardwarewise. (and Singstar on the PS3)

you wait for _everyone_ to have a bluray player before you start buying vastly superior quality movies for your own enjoyment? what an odd stance!

Come to think of it... carts/media for hand-helds would be the prefect platform for this kind of DRM.
I can see Nintendo doing something like this.

shinra-bansho · Jan 3, 2013

Donutta said:
This would neuter renting, as well as just lending a game to a mate. Is it really worth all the bad blood that woukd entale just for a slight increase in game sales?

If they manage to monetize used game sales for themselves and/or publishers that's a huge revenue stream, I wouldn't call it slight.

I imagine the platform holder that does offer some sort of used restriction will receive preferential treatment collectively from publishers. Which is why I imagine that if one of them does it, both of them will.

Visualante2 · Jan 3, 2013

Won't last in Europe.

Callibretto · Jan 3, 2013

Sid said:
How likely is that though? wouldn't it incur additional costs for sony?

what cost?

RionaaM · Jan 3, 2013

Good luck trying to sell $60 games when people can't even resell or trade them once they're done The one advantage of physical games over DD ones will completely disappear.

Sid · Jan 3, 2013

Callibretto said:
what cost?

Is gow3 up on PSN yet?i think hosting nearly 50 GB games on their servers would lead to some additional costs.

NinjaBoiX · Jan 3, 2013

I'm glad I have a big collection this gen. I'll have something to play next gen while I don't bend over the desk for these guys.

Noisepurge · Jan 3, 2013

RionaaM said:
Good luck trying to sell $60 games when people can't even resell or trade them once they're done The one advantage of physical games over DD ones will completely disappear.

Vita games are already 10% cheaper on the Playstation Store than the RRP, i can see this trend continuing on the PS4. They want you to go digital!

Jac_Solar · Jan 3, 2013

Would they even make any money off this? Because my impression is that lots of US gamers rely on selling back their old games for a new one, and/or would not get as many new games if they couldn't trade back.

phosphor112 · Jan 3, 2013

bdizzle said:
It specifically says it's use is to suppress the sale of games in the 2nd hand markey.

Well, it's like the current system of online passes. They want to make money on games sold second hand. The inclusion of the pass would promote the purchasing of games brand new, and as an indirect result "suppress" 2nd hand gaming?

I don't know. I just hope it isn't used to block 2nd hand gaming altogether.

It would suck.

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