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[EuroGamer] Eiji Aonuma on how The Legend of Zelda made the Switch

Oh really.

I mean it's really obvious that those quotes don't mean the whole prophecy but one from just that game.

Yes it's a stereotype but is it not true that (generally) females cry in public more than boys? That's certainly true to my life experiences. I'm not saying it's right for all games to do this but we shouldn't really be surprised (or outraged) if some games still do it. And I'm not saying we shouldn't have strong female characters because we should (and do).



Having emotion is a great show of characterisation in my opinion, but I do get your point.
that's mostly because of the social stigma of crying being seen as emotional and in turn something only women should show.
 
Interesting read.

I like how deep the physics engine is entrenched into the game's world and gameplay mechanics. It'll change the focus from puzzle solving (finding a single solution) to problem solving, where players will come up with many different solutions. Shame there's no Miiverse on Switch, but I look forward to seeing players sharing their crazy contraptions.

I mentioned this in the other thread, but I actually miss how the map was going to be offscreen on Wii U, and in your hands like a paper map. In open world games I often find detailed minimaps to be a distraction to exploring the environment, and take away from the immersion.

BoTW seemed to take a similar route to The Phantom Pain when it was demo'ed at The Game Awards in 2014: have a detailed map that you can refer to every now and then and set beacons on, but don't have the player rely on that map all the time.

I'm interested to see 1) Whether you can hide the minimap in Zelda with a D-Pad press or something and 2) Whether the minimap is detailed in the first place. If it isn't I'll be more comfortable, Zelda's always done minimaps right, often only exposing vital information like entry/exit points and the direction Link is facing. You couldn't use them in place of focusing on the game's world itself.
 

liquidtmd

Banned
this already make me want to see what will be a second/third gen make from the ground switch zelda game.

Mid 2018: New Zelda game announced
2019: Still working on it
2020: Switch dead at retail
2021: It's coming! Nintendo announce new console. Zelda also told coincidentally needs more time in the over.
2022: Nintendo launch new console, Zelda coincidentally ready for launch.

I love the interview. I've been offered a second hand Wii U for £80. Tempted to get it for this....
 

m4st4

Member
Aonuma: Regarding how Princess Zelda is portrayed in the trailer, obviously everyone has their own ideas of exactly how they would expect a female character to act or behave. What I would particularly like to emphasise is that the scene of her crying in the trailer is just one scene from the game - within the trailer itself it forms a dramatic high point, but that shouldn't be taken too much out of context.

Princess Zelda as she appears in the game as a whole is very complex and multi-faceted, and it's not as if she's crying all the time in the game [laughs], so I would ask fans not to read too much into just that one scene from the trailer, and to please play the game and appreciate Zelda as she is in all her aspects.

Damn right.
 

Ms.Galaxy

Member
I mean it's really obvious that those quotes don't mean the whole prophecy but one from just that game.

Basically.

Now, if you really wanna know why Link can't be a girl, well, Anouma already explained it, and it's the most ludicrous and bullshitist excuse ever.

”The Triforce is made up of Princess Zelda, Ganon and Link. Princess Zelda is obviously female. If we made Link a female we thought that would mess with the balance of the Triforce. That's why we decided not to do it."

Seriously, this was just the most "wut" statement I have ever read.
 

Flintty

Member
that's mostly because of the social stigma of crying being seen as emotional and in turn something only women should show.

To a degree but I also disagree in part. I've certainly cried in public and I've seen some of the hardest men I know tear up but I guess it's what you're comfortable with but ultimately, you could be the hardest beast in the world but you can't stop that wobbly chin if something genuinely upsets you. Perhaps (in my experience) men just have better control over emotions, which is no surprise what with the enormous fluctuation in hormones in women - it's part of them and they shouldn't feel (or be made to feel) ashamed for it.
 

hodgy100

Member
Dont get why people want a female link, would much prefer Zelda as a playable character. Nintendo aren't going make female version of Mario instead they give Peach as a playable character.

Because while Mario is a single character. Link is not. Link is a representation of a hero that is continually re-incarnated. TLoZ's cannon dictates that Link can technically be of any age gender ethnicity or whatever solong as they are the hero of time.

To a degree but I also disagree in part. I've certainly cried in public and I've seen some of the hardest men I know tear up but I guess it's what you're comfortable with but ultimately, you could be the hardest beast in the world but you can't stop that wobbly chin if something genuinely upsets you. Perhaps (in my experience) men just have better control over emotions, which is no surprise what with the enormous fluctuation in hormones in women - it's part of them and they shouldn't feel (or be made to feel) ashamed for it.

this is completely incorrect.

Men are just as emotional as women we are just repressed into not expressing them because showing emotion "isn't manly" its one of the causes behind the higher suicide rates among men as well and it contributes to the lack of empathy and shallow emotional understanding that men at large suffer from.
 
Basically.

Now, if you really wanna know why Link can't be a girl, well, Anouma already explained it, and it's the most ludicrous and bullshitist excuse ever.

“The Triforce is made up of Princess Zelda, Ganon and Link. Princess Zelda is obviously female. If we made Link a female we thought that would mess with the balance of the Triforce. That’s why we decided not to do it.”

Seriously, this was just the most "wut" statement I have ever read.

yep. lesbians just aren't real people apparently.
 
Basically.

Now, if you really wanna know why Link can't be a girl, well, Anouma already explained it, and it's the most ludicrous and bullshitist excuse ever.

“The Triforce is made up of Princess Zelda, Ganon and Link. Princess Zelda is obviously female. If we made Link a female we thought that would mess with the balance of the Triforce. That’s why we decided not to do it.”

Seriously, this was just the most "wut" statement I have ever read.
You don't understand Ganon would get cooties if the girls outnumber himm
 
Because while Mario is a single character. Link is not. Link is a representation of a hero that is continually re-incarnated. TLoZ's cannon dictates that Link can technically be of any age gender ethnicity or whatever solong as they are the hero of time.

Trying to quote Zelda canon regarding links Identity but not even aware that only one of the links to ever exist is the hero of time.

Yep.
 
Mid 2018: New Zelda game announced
2019: Still working on it
2020: Switch dead at retail
2021: It's coming! Nintendo announce new console. Zelda also told coincidentally needs more time in the over.
2022: Nintendo launch new console, Zelda coincidentally ready for launch.

I love the interview. I've been offered a second hand Wii U for £80. Tempted to get it for this....

$80 Wii U would be a good get. The exclusives are well worth it.
 
Obviously a major difference between developing for Wii U and a major thing we had to change for Nintendo Switch was the controls. Wii U has the Wii U GamePad, and we originally envisaged making major use of that for the controls. Of course on Wii U you have two screens - the main screen, and one on the GamePad - but the Nintendo Switch has one screen. That was a major change, but we achieved it a lot more easily and quickly than we expected. In the end we're happier with how the controls came out, having made those changes. I feel that the control system we landed on was better than what we originally had.

Well, he just confirmed the Wii U gamepad is a waste!!!
 

Ms.Galaxy

Member
Well, he just confirmed the Wii U gamepad is a waste!!!

That isn't new, he said it back at E3 that he didn't like the gamepad.

"We realized that having something on the GamePad and looking back and forth between the TV screen and the GamePad actually disrupts the gameplay, and the concentration that the game player may be experiencing. You have your car’s GPS system on your dash. If you had it down in your lap, you’re going to get into an accident!"
 

m4st4

Member
Basically.

Now, if you really wanna know why Link can't be a girl, well, Anouma already explained it, and it's the most ludicrous and bullshitist excuse ever.

”The Triforce is made up of Princess Zelda, Ganon and Link. Princess Zelda is obviously female. If we made Link a female we thought that would mess with the balance of the Triforce. That's why we decided not to do it."

Seriously, this was just the most "wut" statement I have ever read.

Actually there's one here that takes the cake imo:

yep. lesbians just aren't real people apparently.

Joke post? The Legend of Zelda series follows a traditional, mythical form of storytelling: there's the hero, the princess and the villain. Of course, there are Zelda games that (somewhat) played with those three roles but essentially it all comes down to the original premise. In BOTW we might even...

...play as Zelda, during a 100 YEARS AGO period, or she might help him on the final quest.

Whatever happens, based on everything we've seen so far and Aonuma's own quotes: Zelda won't be presented as a black and white damsel in distress that nonstop cries. Let's just not... blow this out of proportion while adding some of our own socio-political frustrations on top. This is a fairy tale after all, always was and always will be.
 

correojon

Member
Well, he just confirmed the Wii U gamepad is a waste!!!

Obviously he won´t say that they had developed a lot of awesome uses for the WiiU gamepad but had to take them away in order to not make the Switch version look bad. That line is pure PR bullshit.
This is the only thing that irks me about the game...the Sheika slate seems to be the central item of the game and it was obviously designed to make use of the Gamepad´s capabilities, but now we´ll never know what they were.

Anyway, after playing WWHD and TPHD I can´t say I like the way they used the gamepad for the map and inventory. It was cool at first, specially for the items, but in the end I always ended up bringing the map into the main screen when I needed to look at something in detail.
 

Flintty

Member
this is completely incorrect.

Men are just as emotional as women we are just repressed into not expressing them because showing emotion "isn't manly" its one of the causes behind the higher suicide rates among men as well and it contributes to the lack of empathy and shallow emotional understanding that men at large suffer from.

I think you're misinterpreting my post. Women have a natural menstrual cycle and many (not all) are affected emotionally by this because of hormones - this is scientific fact. As a result, the perception that females are more emotional than males isn't entirely false (though it's not always correct!) nor is it always attributed to 'men are socially repressed...'. There's no argument to be had here.

I'm not disagreeing that some men feel they cannot show emotion but this isn't the case for all and it's certainly not the sole cause of the perception that women are more emotional.
 

LotusHD

Banned
Obviously he won´t say that they had developed a lot of awesome uses for the WiiU gamepad but had to take them away in order to not make the Switch version look bad. That line is pure PR bullshit.
This is the only thing that irks me about the game...the Sheika slate seems to be the central item of the game and it was obviously designed to make use of the Gamepad´s capabilities, but now we´ll never know what they were.

Anyway, after playing WWHD and TPHD I can´t say I like the way they used the gamepad for the map and inventory. It was cool at first, specially for the items, but in the end I always ended up bringing the map into the main screen when I needed to look at something in detail.

Personally, if the Gamepad was going to do anything other than show the map and inventory, I would've likely hated it.
 
But we're talking about one scene. One. Damn. Scene. Girls (and boys) are allowed to cry. Seems like an overreaction to me /shrug.



I think you're reading too much into it but if it bothers you, vote with your wallet I suppose?

The notion that characters cannot show emotion is frustrating! Men and women can cry. Crying does not make you weak. In railing against machismo attitudes, they're actually endorsing them.
 

Chaos17

Member
Personally, if the Gamepad was going to do anything other than show the map and inventory, I would've likely hated it.

So ar that's what we saw and that's what kinda hinted during the interview. But it's was still tons of lines of codes/work hours to get ride off. That's why ha aplogized a lot to the Wii U team. (I'm not saying I'm not agreeing with you).

Here we go again. Character gender debates instead of focusing on the game itself.

Yep, that's why I removed the short intro I quoted. People focused immediatly on that part instead of reading the short interview. *sigh*
 

Oblivion

Fetishing muscular manly men in skintight hosery
In terms of the importance of having it at launch... my boss is Mr Koizumi who's the main producer of the Nintendo Switch (hardware) so for me personally it was very important!

:O

Koizumi's his boss now? Dude should demote Aonuma and take over Zelda now that he has the power.
 

Lilo_D

Member
Really interesting!
I love every Zelda is different(not matter in art style, control or story)
I wanna see what he can pull out from Switch in the future
 
That quote is giving my Luna flashbacks

"Very strong character"

"Inner strength"

"Strength through duty"

Nahh, I think Nintendo's done pretty well at giving Zelda the type of role that really props her up as the 3rd triforce holder. She's really only been useless in the early pre-Oot games, and then like Twilight Princess and Phantom Hourglass. In every other game she's had a pretty crucial role
 

PtM

Banned
Basically.

Now, if you really wanna know why Link can't be a girl, well, Anouma already explained it, and it's the most ludicrous and bullshitist excuse ever.

“The Triforce is made up of Princess Zelda, Ganon and Link. Princess Zelda is obviously female. If we made Link a female we thought that would mess with the balance of the Triforce. That’s why we decided not to do it.”

Seriously, this was just the most "wut" statement I have ever read.
Some guy on YT had this theory that Aonuma was consciously bullshitting and there were story reasons for male Link, namely
A Link from the Past
.
 

ksamedi

Member
Because while Mario is a single character. Link is not. Link is a representation of a hero that is continually re-incarnated. TLoZ's cannon dictates that Link can technically be of any age gender ethnicity or whatever solong as they are the hero of time.



this is completely incorrect.

Men are just as emotional as women we are just repressed into not expressing them because showing emotion "isn't manly" its one of the causes behind the higher suicide rates among men as well and it contributes to the lack of empathy and shallow emotional understanding that men at large suffer from.

That makes sense but the reality is that women in general show more emotion and thats a good thing. Having Zelda show more emotion in cutscenes is realistic.
 

SolVanderlyn

Thanos acquires the fully powered Infinity Gauntlet in The Avengers: Infinity War, but loses when all the superheroes team up together to stop him.
If this article teaches us anything, it's that the Switch saved us from a clunky and unpleasant experience.

Paper Mario is really not fun to play because of its reliance on the Gamepad.
 

Metal B

Member
Basically.

Now, if you really wanna know why Link can't be a girl, well, Anouma already explained it, and it's the most ludicrous and bullshitist excuse ever.

“The Triforce is made up of Princess Zelda, Ganon and Link. Princess Zelda is obviously female. If we made Link a female we thought that would mess with the balance of the Triforce. That’s why we decided not to do it.”

Seriously, this was just the most "wut" statement I have ever read.
He, she and it. Ganondorf started male, but Ganon is more of a genderless monster.
 
"Actually implementing that was sometimes more complicated than it seemed. [For example], one day I picked up the latest build of the game and went to an area, and saw that all the objects that were supposed to be in that area weren't there. I was quite surprised and confused, and I realised after asking the programmer, the reason the objects weren't there was because the wind in-game had blown them all away."

Love this quote
 

squid

Member
eh despite my inaccuracy my point still stands. link could be any gender ethnicity or species.
Don't know how well that would work for marketing and brand awareness. Link being white, male link in one game and then the next zelda game link is a black female? Why not just make it a brand new character to play as at that point?

Personally, while yes I think there's some room for differences in personality in different links, I don't think there's anything wrong with some things staying the same across all links, like his race, gender, courage, lack of speech and his swordsmanship. It makes sense. Those are some of the things that define his character. I also would have preferred if link stayed left handed in every version, but it's not a big deal.
 
"Actually implementing that was sometimes more complicated than it seemed. [For example], one day I picked up the latest build of the game and went to an area, and saw that all the objects that were supposed to be in that area weren't there. I was quite surprised and confused, and I realised after asking the programmer, the reason the objects weren't there was because the wind in-game had blown them all away."

Love this quote
I'm hoping there are still moments where you come across a stream of items passing in the wind.
 

maxcriden

Member
Actually there's one here that takes the cake imo:

Joke post? The Legend of Zelda series follows a traditional, mythical form of storytelling: there's the hero, the princess and the villain. Of course, there are Zelda games that (somewhat) played with those three roles but essentially it all comes down to the original premise. In BOTW we might even...

...play as Zelda, during a 100 YEARS AGO period, or she might help him on the final quest.

Whatever happens, based on everything we've seen so far and Aonuma's own quotes: Zelda won't be presented as a black and white damsel in distress that nonstop cries. Let's just not... blow this out of proportion while adding some of our own socio-political frustrations on top. This is a fairy tale after all, always was and always will be.

Is the spoilered bit rumored, confirmed or just speculation? Asking since I've been on media blackout and genuinely don't know.

Link is definitely not gonna say a word. Just your usual grunts.

Only cutscenes will be voiced, right? Normal in-game dialogue otherwise is silent as before?
 

Air

Banned
Don't know how well that would work for marketing and brand awareness. Link being white, male link in one game and then the next zelda game link is a black female? Why not just make it a brand new character to play as at that point?

Personally, while yes I think there's some room for differences in personality in different links, I don't think there's anything wrong with some things staying the same across all links, like his race, gender, courage, lack of speech and his swordsmanship. It makes sense. Those are some of the things that define his character. I also would have preferred if link stayed left handed in every version, but it's not a big deal.

They could easily make links color palette swappable. A big part of the series is that the player is supposed to be link. I'm not a light skinned person. They could use the regular link I'm marketing, but there's no reason why they couldn't give him color options for the hair and skin.

Edit: itd be just as easy to make link female as well. They could just have it done like Pokemon

The most interesting bit for me is that Koizumi is Aonuma's boss, heh.

Yeah I thought that was interesting. Maybe koizumi will have his chance to develop another Zelda after all
 

RoadHazard

Gold Member
They could easily make links color palette swappable. A big part of the series is that the player is supposed to be link. I'm not a light skinned person. They could use the regular link I'm marketing, but there's no reason why they couldn't give him color options for the hair and skin.

Edit: itd be just as easy to make link female as well. They could just have it done like Pokemon

The player is not supposed to "be" Link. He does represent the player's actions in the world, and is therefore mute etc, but he isn't the player. He's his own character (well, characters) with his own story, etc. While you can rename him, he is canonically a character named Link. He is not a blank canvas like the one you get in something like Skyrim.
 

Air

Banned
The player is not supposed to "be" Link. He does represent the player's actions in the world, and is therefore mute etc, but he isn't the player. He's his own character (well, characters) with his own story, etc. While you can rename him, he is canonically a character named Link. He is not a blank canvas like the one you get in something like Skyrim.

What the character was supposed to be in the past doesn't really represent what the audience wants them to be in the future. No one is saying to get rid of link as he is, but there isn't an issue with expanding his aesthetic. Now, that the series is getting progressively more story oriented that may be a bit of a challenge (not much tho tbh), but link has evolved to be more customizable across games and this is just a way to make the games more inclusive.

Each link is generally a different link so there's already a story mechanism in place to give players more control over his looks, and even if there weren't it's not a bad thing that they'd make it that way. I'm not one who cares all that much about this btw, but saying 'no we can't do that' and giving a poor reason probably takes more effort than giving link a hair/skin color and gender changing screens.
 
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