Breaking Murdock out.
-
Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
Was Dark Souls 2 really made by a B-Team? Also, Demon's Souls 2 speculation.
- Thread starter Psycho_Mantis
- Start date
I would think its sort of common sense that Miyazaki took some people with him to work on whatever he is making. You don't have to be a detective to figure that out. I don't think that makes DS2 a "B-team" game. Most issues in DS1&2 can simply be chalked up to From being a limited budget studio that can't spend forever polishing and balancing their games.
If Dark Souls 2 is the B-team, they're one hell of a B-team.
As a Magic the Gathering player, the "contraptions" part makes me laugh.
Screaming Meat
Unconfirmed Member
Please do.
I did, mate. Very good it was too, but the stuff you're saying about online stability is completely counter to my experience.
I'm in the EU too and I have been lag stabbed once or twice at most as opposed to the regular ones I received in nearly every DS PvP match. I find PvP a much less frustrating experience in DS2 (stability wise), from finding a match to fighting a match.
Maybe I'm just extraordinarily lucky or super tolerant, but I've been PvPing a heck of a lot, so those odds would be quite screwy. XD
Palette Swap
Member
Not liking the "B team" designation at all as it's kind of insulting to people who've delivered a pretty fucking good game.
Sure, I get where some of the critics are coming from, there are some pretty debatable design choices, but that doesn't mean this is a bad game or not a Souls game, so the "B team" comments feel pretty unwarranted to me. I'd have no qualms with a more factual designation such as "team 2", mind you.
Sure, I get where some of the critics are coming from, there are some pretty debatable design choices, but that doesn't mean this is a bad game or not a Souls game, so the "B team" comments feel pretty unwarranted to me. I'd have no qualms with a more factual designation such as "team 2", mind you.
theSlacker
Member
Actually it was. Interconnection isn't the only thing that makes a gameworld organic. Making it feel like an actual place instead of a video game level can do that as well. Something that even the separated zones in DeS did very well. This isn't really related to the topic of the thread, and just a direct response to your statement.
Demon's Souls 2 with a HD remastering of Demon's Souls 1.
Not really, DS2 is a massive disappointment filled with many flaws, bad design decisions and is taking huge step backward from Demons and Dark 1 it term of polish and quality of fights and challenge and fairness.
AmethystEnd
Member
Not really. <Insert list of mostly subjective things here.>
I'll agree about the quality of fights, though.
Dark Souls 2 is as good as or better than DS1.
Once DS3 comes out people will be praising DS2.
Calling it a B-Team is a disrespect to the people that made DS2. Even with its flaws, the game is better than 99% of the shit that are released every day. But since Dark Souls became popular its cool to hate it now I guess.
Once DS3 comes out people will be praising DS2.
Calling it a B-Team is a disrespect to the people that made DS2. Even with its flaws, the game is better than 99% of the shit that are released every day. But since Dark Souls became popular its cool to hate it now I guess.
NEOPARADIGM
Banned
puuuuuuuleeeze
Amazeballs
Member
DaS II was made by a bigger team paradoxically. Quite a few level designers. I wonder who's decision it was to block off a waist high gate with a 30 quest.
FaintDeftone
Junior Member
I honestly doubt a Demon Souls 2 will ever see the light of day. From Software has definitely moved on. Why would they focus on another Sony exclusive when they can make Dark Souls 3 and stick it on multiple platforms and essentially make much more money off of it? It doesn't really make much sense financially since they're a smaller dev team.
Don't get me wrong, I would LOVE a Demon Souls 2, but I don't see it happening. Hopefully I'm wrong.
Don't get me wrong, I would LOVE a Demon Souls 2, but I don't see it happening. Hopefully I'm wrong.
You just can't lay off the hyperbole, can you?
This would be amazing!!!! I would literally scream with excitement!!
That would force me into finally buying a PS4.
RockTurtle
Member
but FROM software are the kings of making B-rated games doe (and i luv em for it)
so being a B is in their bl00d (except chromehounds, that was S-tier)
(and i luv em for it)so being a B is in their bl00d (except chromehounds, that was S-tier)
Arthr2ShdsJcksn
Banned
Steve : Klaus :: DS1 : DS2
<edit>Both Klaus and DS2 are cool, but they both lack that certain 'Zissou' quality</edit>
Steve Zissou: We're in the middle of a lightning strike rescue op, Klaus. What's the deal?
Klaus Daimler: I'm sick of being on "B" squad.
Steve Zissou: You might be on "B" Squad, But you're the "B" Squad leader.
<edit>Both Klaus and DS2 are cool, but they both lack that certain 'Zissou' quality</edit>
Steve Zissou: We're in the middle of a lightning strike rescue op, Klaus. What's the deal?
Klaus Daimler: I'm sick of being on "B" squad.
Steve Zissou: You might be on "B" Squad, But you're the "B" Squad leader.
Agreed. Dark Souls 2 was a great game. I'm on new game ++ and I love it. Dark and Demon's were great games as well. Each game does things differently and that's what makes each game unique. I feel that each game refines certain elements from the previous and also adds new game play mechanics which helps in keeping the games fresh. The souls series is probably the best out there (in my opinion of course).
Dr. Buni
Member
I really hope it isn't a thing because I really don't want another exclusive Souls game.
I really don't get the mindset of people who want more exclusive games -_-Also, another Souls game already on the work would essentially mean From is milking the series with sequels and more sequels.
Go do something else, From. Create some new franchise!
Sal Paradise
Member
I'm curious, what's your Souls Memory? NG+ I assume?
Dark Souls 2 lag isn't really the typicall laggy back stabbing, but people teleporting all over the place, hitting you with the Santier Spear from the other end of the level. That's my experience, sadly.
Also, there was some phantom hit stuff going on with several weapons in DkS1, but it's crazy in DkS2, especially with the Santier Spear and Katanas. The fact that there's basically two builds right now that the majority of people use, especially on higher levels, doesn't help either. Then again, you can't blame them wearing the best armour in the game and using the weapon that deals the most damage. Stuff like this needs to be balanced better though, annoying things like chugging in the arena needed some more careful testing etc.
Had to laugh about the A-Team stuff. If the Dark Souls 1 team was the original A-Team, Dark Souls 2's is the movie version. Well, that's kinda cruel.
I didn't come up with the "B-team" term btw and didn't want to sound disrespectful towards the developers, it's just a term I read on several forums, so for this post it seemed fitting. Don't want to start writing headlines for Kotaku!Not Spaceghost
Spaceghost
Krusenstern
Banned
Taking into account everything we know so far (graphics downgrade from pre-release footage, overall inconsistent quality in world design, bad animations and hit-boxes etc.) it has to be either the product of a B-Team or they weren't given enough development time. It has to be one of the two (maybe even both).
If there is really an A-Team at FROM working on an unannounced project I can only dream what they're able to put toghether with Miyazaki.
I also don't see how calling the devs who worked on DS2 the "B-Team" could be in any way insulting. I thought A-Team and B-Team were common terms.
If there is really an A-Team at FROM working on an unannounced project I can only dream what they're able to put toghether with Miyazaki.
I also don't see how calling the devs who worked on DS2 the "B-Team" could be in any way insulting. I thought A-Team and B-Team were common terms.
Dr. Buni
Member
Also this. Making an exclusive game at this point would be a very very dumb idea.
I really hope it isn't a thing because I really don't want another exclusive Souls game.
Also, another Souls game already on the work would essentially mean From is milking the series with sequels and more sequels.
Go do something else, From. Create some new franchise!
It's FromSoftware. Milking is their MO.
Sorc3r3r
Member
I think the "problem" is that souls games sell big to hardcore gamers and these kind of people can be VERY scrupulous, almost annoying. Yep.
No it's not when another company is funding the game development for you.
Krusenstern
Banned
And when you were possibly given more creative freedom than a multiplat publisher could.
theechrisfox
Member
I think Dark Souls 1 was made by the B team. Dark Souls 2 is a better game.
Acquiescence
Member
"Finally." It's been out 5 months, not 5 years.
I wasn't lag-backstabbed. But I was hit because of lag almost all the time. I roll, other player tries to hit me, wouldn't normally hit me, but my health goes down anyway, I got multiplayer region lock disabled though, but that's primarily for coop and in coop lag was never an issue at least not that bad. Never had anything like this in DS1.
And in coop I got plenty of "summoning failed" and "summoning timeout" messages. Based on those experiences I would even go so far to say that DS1 multiplayer was never that bad. Had way more summon signs in DS1, surely there were quite a few summoning failed issues before the patch, but there were way more signs, so this wasn't such an issue.
It's just insane that DS2 managed to connect invaders to my game quite often, but then I get those summoning failed messages 5 times in a row.
If Sony actually gave 2 shits about the core crowd, they would have released Demon's Souls 2 two years ago.
That was 1 badly designed (actually rushed) boss + area. If DS2 had just one badly designed area + boss and everything else was awesome, I would be happy.
AuthenticM
Member
I still enjoyed Dark Souls 2 more than either previous games.
Seriously, it's like people don't remember the PS2 era of Armored Core.
Armored Core 2
Another Age
Armored Core 3
Silent Line
Nexus
Nine Breaker
Last Raven
Formula Front
I agree, while there is certainly some issues with weird hitboxes and phantom hits/misses. I've only been lag stabbed twice and all I mostly do now is PvP.
Felt like DS1 was just straffing to backstab, wasn't too great of an experience for me. Now I feel like its at least an actual duel in DS2, certainly some balance issues to be had, but I'm enjoying it still.
Is this the new "Demon's Souls PVP was better"?
Psycho_Mantis
Banned
One of the reasons I wanted to post this thread was to inform people. Many people, in fact many Souls fans that were disappointed with DS2 would often say that it was due to Miyazaki's leave. Though that may certainly be a reason, I think its silly to appoint the praise of the previous games on Miyazaki alone. His team are just as important.
B-team comes is usually said because the quality of DS2 is felt as being significantly less than DeS/DS. Again its not a bad game but any means. I suppose B-team is harsh even though the lists show they were inexperienced.
I see many people wondering about Demons Souls 2 (or a new Souls game with SCEJ). It must be noted its just a rumour but the hinting from DemonNite who works at SCE iirc is so blatant that its hard to ignore.
B-team comes is usually said because the quality of DS2 is felt as being significantly less than DeS/DS. Again its not a bad game but any means. I suppose B-team is harsh even though the lists show they were inexperienced.
I see many people wondering about Demons Souls 2 (or a new Souls game with SCEJ). It must be noted its just a rumour but the hinting from DemonNite who works at SCE iirc is so blatant that its hard to ignore.
Screaming Meat
Unconfirmed Member
Everything you just said about the online is stuff I experienced far more of with DS1. I have never lacked for summon signs in DS2, nor had more than a hand full of failed Summons. I don't know why our experiences vary so drastically. Vidya games, I guess.
2.5 million and no, I'm still on NG. I've done a lot of duelling in both PvP covenants, spent a stuuuupid amount of time in the Bellbros and Ratcov. Done plenty of co-op too. Only a handful of invasions, though.
Hand on heart, I can safely say I have never had any one of those issues. DS2 lags about as badly as any other online game I've played, but nowhere to the level or frequency of DS, in my experience.
I said the online was more stable... I never said it was balanced, man XD
Saying that, I'm having way more success than I did in DS, although I was fairly LTTP... and no, I'm not using magic or Havel's, just plain old Katanas
RoboGeorgeForeman
Banned
That's not true at all. In DS1 if you were lag stabbed to the degree that often happens in DS2 you would still get backstabbed but take no damage. Not only that, but I've never been warped into grabs/backstabs as often as I have in DS2. The game is the buggiest game I've played since Fallout NV (note: Fallout NV is one of my favorite games ever) for this reason and a host of others.
Or those unlisted employees are making a mobile souls game. I really hope not
Kevin Shields
Member
Oh if that what you mean by b team then yea it's an inaccurate name. Difference in quality between the three games is not that large at all. The team that worked on DS2 is extremely impressive if they are inexperienced. Making a game near the quality of the first 2 is really tough...
Screaming Meat
Unconfirmed Member
Were you watching me or something? XD
Why on Earth would I lie about my experiences with the game....?
DS2 is nowhere near as buggy or unstable as FO:NV, in my experience. I played on 360, if that makes a difference.
-tetsuo-
Unlimited Capacity
Who would have made it?
sublimit
Banned
If you read his interview in EDGE magazine (it was before the release of the original Dark Souls) you'll see how much importance Miyazaki gave to his team.He basically said that the reason Demon's was so good was because of how incredibly talented his team was.he admitted that he was a very "difficult" person to work with but his team always managed to deliver on each one of his requests even on late changes on game design that were really hard to achieve.
He made it sound that he was inseparable with his team and i assume that was something that From's Project Managers really took into account when they divided the staff to the Dark Souls 2 team and whatever the other team is working on with Miyazaki at its helm.
On another note if the rumoured collaboration between SCEJ and From is true i would have loved to see a project with the combined efforts of Miyazaki's team and Team Ico (with or without Ueda).I think that would have been a dream come true for me.
Robot Pants
Member
This is what I was worried about.
Dark Souls 2 should have been for next-gen and it should have taken longer to come out. The sequel/spiritual successor, whatever it was should have been a true next-gen game with new ideas and all. The fact that DS2 just arrived and no doubt a new next-gen one is probably around the corner is too much too soon.
Kinda the same thing that I saw happening with GT6/7
B- Team is very tongue and cheek imo. It's still a Souls game and imo still better than 90 percent of the games out there. However there does feel like something is "missing" in design. Even if it isn't as connected as DS1 was there still was this feeling like something was off altogether.
Idk if what they are working on will be DeS2, I mean I know it's been mentioned here about it "happening" but I remember Miyazaki also mentioned wanting to do something a little different and "warmer"
Idk if what they are working on will be DeS2, I mean I know it's been mentioned here about it "happening" but I remember Miyazaki also mentioned wanting to do something a little different and "warmer"