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Chalupa Batman · May 15, 2017

Huge Succeeded said:
You continue to miss the mark by fixating on how pointless you think it is to game on PC if you can't have the best possible visual experience backed by the strongest available hardware.

Beyond that, what does it matter if something like Infinite Warfare has an improved engine over its predecessor? The improvements over Advanced Warfare, on my PC that played Advanced Warfare, will be exactly as apparent as IW's improvements on PS4 were over how AW looked on the same PS4. Why wouldn't they be? It's the same PC.

What are the advantages, then? Games aren't cheaper when you factor in trade-ins. Online is free but generally not as populated as on consoles, and the Plus/Gold subscription comes with free game rentals every month (I'm not sure if Steam has a similar thing).

chaosblade said:
Going back to the start, PC hardware doesn't get weaker. Likewise, consoles don't grow more transistors and get more powerful. If you built a PC comparable to a PS4, it will continue to play games similarly to a PS4 unless the port is bad (which applies to consoles too, GC, PS2, PS3, etc all saw plenty of awful ports). So you can continue to get that same experience for the entire generation on PC.

Or you can sell your GPU and buy a new one, just like you traded in your console for a Pro.

Still, I don't see where you're coming from. Most PC gamers don't buy top of the line parts. Cards like the 970 and 1070 fall between midrange and high end, and are the most popular cards on the market. And midrange to mainstream tier cards are plenty popular as well. The people spending $500+ on GPUs annually are the minority.

The hardware inside your PC doesn't get weaker, but engines are upgraded such that you won't get the same visual fidelity/frame rate that you did a year or two prior unless you upgrade components. I did a quick Google search and the 970, a midrange card, is $300. That's for the card alone. That's the price of a PS4.

SMOK3Y · May 15, 2017

Your average consumer just wants it to work i still have alot of friends who phone up & complain about BSOD etc i know people who have not had their cars serviced.. like ever they just pour oil & water in if it needs it these same people just 'use' computers & expect them to just 'work' which they dont

SmartWaffles · May 15, 2017

Pjsprojects said:
My latest examples.

Loaded Lego city & fullscreen didn't work had to mess with ini file.

Playing Sniper ghost warrior 3 and it hard locked at the drove section.

I have been a PC gamer for years and will continue to be one but sometimes its just easy tie give up on a game and buy it on console instead.

One is a game that the publisher simply doesn't give a fuck, which is also pretty borked on PS4 and Xbox One at launch.

One is from a publisher and developer that is known for unpolished games. Not entirely fair examples.

Chalupa Batman said:
The hardware inside your PC doesn't get weaker, but engines are upgraded such that you won't get the same visual fidelity/frame rate that you did a year or two prior unless you upgrade components. I did a quick Google search and the 970, a midrange card, is $300. That's for the card alone. That's the price of a PS4.

Which is twice as fast as the PS4's GPU, and is not tha far behind the PS4Pro in terms of power.

NoblesseOblige · May 15, 2017

Piggus said:
The people who are worried about not being able to solve problems related to PC gaming always seem to forget about the magical resource known as the Internet, where virtually any issue can be researched and solved within minutes.

Not really. I encounter issues all the time that require more than a few minutes of research. And a handful in which I have to develop a solution myself. And for someone who doesn't know where to look that's going to be even more complicated. There are many sites or forums that exist which produce complete garbage when searching certain issues.

Valkerionseven · May 15, 2017

I mean if your just putting it together following a guide or getting help from someone making a PC is good fun. So many people wonder about the "What if" part of something going wrong dealing with the stuff that they assume its too hard or complex.

Making a PC is one of those things that remains a mystery to people til they do it lol.

Izuna · May 15, 2017

difficulty aside

it's infuriating or fun depending on the person to configure every single game

jbluzb · May 15, 2017

It is still true that for every new game you need at least 1 hour of troubleshooting before you can play pc games.

Fredrik · May 15, 2017

Renekton said:
Right, lug the rig to a repair shop for every issue in there.

I only saw the start of thread but I mean what do people do that have no experience regarding those issues? Throw the PCs in the trash? The local custom PC shop where I bought my PC can help you out with just about everything, but I admit I don't know if that's unusual though.

Caayn · May 15, 2017

I've been both playing on consoles and PCs, although I currently don't use my PC due to the lack of a dedicated GPU.

When a game on PC works, great. But when a game doesn't work (stutters, graphical artifacts, crashing, etc) then it's a hell. Sure most issue can be fixed with a quick fix, but that's the thing, you need to know how to do those quick fixes and you need to be willingly to do it. When I still had my GPU, I almost always played games on a secondary screen, that wasn't always attached as the receiver that screen was connected to wasn't always on or set to that input, which would sometimes cause games to open on a different screen or screw with the graphical settings.

Consoles on the other hand you pop-in the disc, wait ages for install/update times but then the game just works. And most issues can be fixed with a quick reboot of the machine.

Chalupa Batman · May 15, 2017

SmartWaffles said:
Which is twice as fast as the PS4's GPU, and is not tha far behind the PS4Pro in terms of power.

The point is the total cost of the PC is going to be well above the cost of a PS4, and you're going to have to keep upgrading components to keep the advantage (if that's what you're going for). It's a never-ending cycle.

PleaseDontBanMe · May 15, 2017

Rats Off To Ya said:
I agree with this. When I first built my gaming PC I didn't want to mess with that stuff and for the most part I didn't worry about it too much. It was so much better than what I'd been getting on consoles my whole life that a stutter here and an artifact there didn't phase me, if I even noticed it.

Then the sickness gets into you. Five years later I spend at least an hour benchmarking different settings in the opening section of a game just to find that sweet spot. And the instant I feel an extended drop below 60, I'm opening RTSS to get to the bottom of things. And I love to do it.

Prospective PC converts should know that the guy in my first paragraph and the guy in my second paragraph are both getting everything they want out of PC gaming, because PC gaming is whatever you want it to be.

I know some people on my steam friends list with more hours put into 3DMark than any actual game.

An amazing observation to say the least.

chaosblade · May 15, 2017

Chalupa Batman said:
The hardware inside your PC doesn't get weaker, but engines are upgraded such that you won't get the same visual fidelity/frame rate that you did a year or two prior unless you upgrade components. I did a quick Google search and the 970, a midrange card, is $300. That's for the card alone. That's the price of a PS4.

That's 100% pulled out your ass. "Engine upgrades" don't cause performance drops on PC while being totally negligible on consoles. And as I said in my edit, an 8800GT from 2007 outperformed the PS3 for the entire generation. You could have used that card for not-terrible console ports until it wasn't supported due to lack of support for newer DX versions.

I won't deny that PC hardware is more expensive than console hardware, though the 970 is much closer to the Pro in performance than the base PS4. But I don't think PC gaming is more expensive in the long run since games are cheaper and it doesn't have the service charges consoles do.

And cheaper games are a better advantage than trade-ins. Even if you manage to pay a bit less with trade-ins, you lose access to games that way. It's not difficult to build a library of games on PC spanning 3 decades. Older games more often require tinkering to get running, but I guarantee you it's a lot easier than running a PS1 or PS2 disc on your PS4. Not to mention the countless advantages mods bring to the table.

Skyzard · May 15, 2017

Chalupa Batman said:
The point is the total cost of the PC is going to be well above the cost of a PS4, and you're going to have to keep upgrading components to keep the advantage (if that's what you're going for). It's a never-ending cycle.

Not really dude, once you have the advantage it's there to stay. If you want to keep going above and above and above and above you can...but you don't need to.

spekkeh · May 15, 2017

Is PC gaming considered difficult?
Why assume if people say they can't be bothered with it, that they must be dense?

MilkyJoe · May 15, 2017

Fredrik said:
But if you go to a PC custom shop they can do all that for you. Sure, it'll cost you a bit more I guess but PC gaming isn't exactly about getting stuff cheap. That's probably my only complaint regarding PC gaming. It's crazy expensive.

So you are saying people are talking crap, then you admit someone else does all the work for you?

duckroll · May 15, 2017

Chalupa Batman said:
What are the advantages, then? Games aren't cheaper when you factor in trade-ins. Online is free but generally not as populated as on consoles, and the Plus/Gold subscription comes with free game rentals every month (I'm not sure if Steam has a similar thing).

Overwatch 40 bucks on PC and 60 bucks on consoles. The PC userbase is much larger. You can use Discord on PC to bypass the ingame voice chat system. It has better controls. You get access to the PTR server to test upcoming changes and new content before they go live.

Factually better than console.

Fredrik · May 15, 2017

Izuna said:
difficulty aside

it's infuriating or fun depending on the person to configure every single game

?? I don't configure anything. Or do you mean the visual settings? If so, I think most games are setup up in some standard settings that work okay but maybe not perfectly to get the highest framerate and stuff like that.

Rats Off To Ya · May 15, 2017

PleaseDontBanMe said:
I know some people on my steam friends list with more hours put into 3DMark than any actual game.

An amazing observation to say the least.

I've still managed to avoid the rabbit hole of system tweaking, for the most part. I tried to overclock my CPU once and it went horribly.

But I'm sure I'll get there some day.

xabbott · May 15, 2017

PC gaming on a TV still isn't seamless. Unless you have the computer close by or want to have a keyboard and mouse near the coffee table. I even tried to solve this with Steam link but the experience still had me going to the PC every so often to fix something.

Having a friend come over and see Forza Horizon 3 or The Divison it's easier to tell them they need to buy a console and a game. Especially when most of my non-techie friends are used to laptops and mobile devices. I actually had to deal with this once when a friend decided to get into PC gaming because of Skyrim mods. There were so many random issues he called about.

Just like last gen with GTA 4 and other games I can't remember. Ports of some big console titles just seem to have weird issues. Sure maybe they get fixed by the community or developer eventually. But this only needs to happen a few times before you're soured on buying new games for the system. Certain developers do not have this problem at all. I trust Blizzard games, for instance, to just work.

With all of that said, I should add that I feel consoles overall have added more complexity that removes some of the benefits it had over PCs.

fabricated backlash · May 15, 2017

In my experience it's become piss easy to set up a PC and game on it. That process has become so incredibly hassle free,it's really not much more effort than setting up a console these days.

And as long as you use it like a console, this will mostly stay the same. But as soon as you branch out a bit, maybe get some mods, 3Rd party apps and try to get older games to work, the complexity and associated potential for problems increases exponentially.

And that still can be immensely terrifying to deal with.

KtSlime · May 15, 2017

Very little advertising (none) has been done to show people that it is now an easy seamless process.

MetalliCabombination · May 15, 2017

Piggus said:
The people who are worried about not being able to solve problems related to PC gaming always seem to forget about the magical resource known as the Internet, where virtually any issue can be researched and solved within minutes.

As someone who got his first pc at the age of 5 in 1998 and is now a computer engineer, identifying the problem is a far bigger issue.

I played dark souls for about a 100 hours before buying the pc version. I think i had a 560 or 570 back then. Started, shit framerate anf crashes.
Use dsfix and it wont even launch. Googled it, no specific solution.
Back to sub 20fps console version.
Bought driver san Francisco and re:make.
Installed driver, wont launch. Old game, no help. Installed both again on laptop, now it worked only it ran in slow motion because unlike consoles the game cant do anything less than 60fps and run properly.same for re remake, the game ran fine on ps3 but textures (or maybe the internal res) on pc are locked to 1440p and the game runs in slow mo again.
Oh and did i mention dmc4 se on pc? The og game ran on a toaster and my same pc with the 570 couldn't even get into the settings menu.
No fixes in sight. That's just how it is.
Now it could be a 1 minute fix or a 1 hour fix, but if i dont know what's wrong, how the hell do i fix it?
A simple crash tells me absolutely nothing

hemo memo · May 15, 2017

If I don't care that much about games running on ultra or every game to be on 60fps+ and just find console performance acceptable, unless it's something like TLG on base PS4 which is a 1st party game anyway.

I just want to come back from work and press a button and for my game to work.

I play small games on my MBP but that's it.

Fast Forward · May 15, 2017

I'm sure what everyone says is true, in that the point to entry for PC gaming is easier than ever, but ultimately, it still seems a bit more involved than a console, even if the gap has and still is narrowing.

Plus, there's little if any reason for me to go PC. Practically all of the kind of games I want to play are already released on the consoles, and these days, I almost exclusively use Chrome OS over Windows 10, so I feel especially unmotivated to game on a Windows PC.

SMOK3Y · May 15, 2017

Rats Off To Ya said:
I've still managed to avoid the rabbit hole of system tweaking, for the most part. I tried to overclock my CPU once and it went horribly.

But I'm sure I'll get there some day.

I sill have my i5 2500k & mobo just sitting there that baby easily ran at 5GHz on air all day 😊

llien · May 15, 2017

Having to know what bunch of meaningless letters mean (7600k, cool or not? Is 1800x better? Which mainboard?) install/update drivers and so on, as opposed to just inserting a disc into a console.

Most naming schemes (GHZ + throughtput ratings on RAM for instance) , oh and there are different types of RAM sockets, oh, and CPU sockets too (why should I care about it?) and, oh, the "3Gb 1060 is also otherwise weaker than 6Gb"...

It feels as if industry is making it harder on purpose. (it might at times)

I don't see anything surprising here.

chaosblade said:
And as I said in my edit, an 8800GT from 2007 outperformed the PS3 for the entire generation.

This thread is not about PC being or not being faster, but I'm curious, what kind of game looked on your card like TLOU is PS3.

packy34 · May 15, 2017

Renekton said:
Kindly show us how to google better:

http://m.neogaf.com/showthread.php?t=377301

I like how you're just sitting in this thread, waiting for people to say PC gaming isn't hard, and then repeatedly posting this link. What are you trying to prove here?

I could post threads/videos about console hardware failing or not working properly too but i don't want to be a thread shitter.

SmartWaffles · May 15, 2017

Chalupa Batman said:
The point is the total cost of the PC is going to be well above the cost of a PS4, and you're going to have to keep upgrading components to keep the advantage (if that's what you're going for). It's a never-ending cycle.

You also get significantly higher performance for what you pay, and "you have to keep upgrading" is total BS. A mid range PC built in 2012 (i5 3rd gen and something like a GTX670 or 760) which is before current gen consoles, is still faster than a PS4, and is still going to have at least on par visuals with better framerate performance in the majority of games. Even if the Kepler is struggling with later games, all it takes is a sub $300 GTX1060/RX580 to turn it into a 1080p60fps machine for years to come.

MetalliCabombination · May 15, 2017

duckroll said:
Overwatch 40 bucks on PC and 60 bucks on consoles. The PC userbase is much larger. You can use Discord on PC to bypass the ingame voice chat system. It has better controls. You get access to the PTR server to test upcoming changes and new content before they go live.

Factually better than console.

I don't think a blizzard game is a good representation of 99% of the games on steam

Moon_frogger · May 15, 2017

It's not.....difficult it's just that it can be annoying as fuck. I mean you're super duper in denial if you think otherwise. Just look at the latest 'pc performance for game x' thread if you are labouring under the illusion that pc gaming 'just works.' All the time. It's Fiddly by nature. If you're truly a pc gaming enthusiast you'll know this is a blessing and a curse. You wouldn't try to deny or downplay it or shrug it off. Drivers aren't compatible. Ports aren't optimized. Resolutions need to be patched in by modders. Many games are subject to rampant online hacking. I've seen some truly bizzare shit in the pc versions of dark souls that would never happen on console. Blah blah etc. Remember the fun glitch in dark souls 3 where the game would crash when you tried to light a bonfire? Loved that one.

The question is, are the results worth the effort. Of course they are. I bought a PC to round out my gaming pallete. It's wonderful. An indespeble part of my hobby.

This instance that it comes with no quirks of its own that some people just don't want to deal with is kind of obnoxious though.

whalleywhat · May 15, 2017

I'm currently having issues with my motherboard. It can be annoying. I'd also imagine if somebody's early experience with PC gaming was something like having to roll back drivers to get a game to function properly, they'd get frustrated. These are aspects of PC gaming.

duckroll · May 15, 2017

packy34 said:
I could post threads/videos about console hardware failing or not working properly too but i don't want to be a thread shitter.

But... what would that prove? There is no argument here saying console hardware doesn't fail. Console hardware can fail. You either get it replaced if under warranty, or begrudgingly replace it if it isn't. But it's one piece of hardware to replace. If a PC suffers a hardware failure, you either spend a lot more replacing the whole thing, or have to troubleshoot to find out what needs replacing to begin with.

Is it really that hard to accept that PC gaming does in fact come with hurdles that consoles do not?

MetalliCabombination said:
I don't think a blizzard game is a good representation of 99% of the games on steam

I'm not saying it is. I'm giving a specific example of the advantage of PC gaming. You can also play some games on the PC without exclusively gaming on the PC. Either way, it refutes the point that if you cannot get the best performance out of something on the PC, there is no benefit in playing it on the PC.

jsnepo · May 15, 2017

Because it is to the average consumer.

Chalupa Batman · May 15, 2017

duckroll said:
Overwatch 40 bucks on PC and 60 bucks on consoles. The PC userbase is much larger. You can use Discord on PC to bypass the ingame voice chat system. It has better controls. You get access to the PTR server to test upcoming changes and new content before they go live.

Factually better than console.

Did Overwatch launch at $40 on PC and $60 on consoles? If it did, that's fine, but if not, it's the same price at launch, and either way you could sell the console version a month after launch and get at least half your money back, still coming out ahead at net $30 on console versus net $40 on PC. As for userbase, I purposely said in general because there are exceptions to every rule and obviously Overwatch is one of them.

Does the average PC gamer know what Discord is or know about the PTR server? These are niche features and don't apply to the OP's question because people in the niche market have the patience and know-how to tinker with their PC.

ffvorax · May 15, 2017

Actually the really difficult thing is to buy a pre built decent pc at a fair price... the market is so big that most people buy things just for their name and don't know what they are really buying, and mostly buy bad pre-assembled PCs... also they have to know that Steam exist, and many people don't actually, they need to install it on their PC and buy games digitally (this is becoming a thing in these years, but still not the mainstream way to buy games for most people)

Gamers are not actually only skilled people with this kind of things... some are also in difficutly to set their account on consoles....

I personally tried Steam Link to play games from my pc on the couch, but had a lot of problems, I spent 2 days with no luck
... it ended to work, but in the end I had problem to play with many games with controller issues and other things that never happened when I played them directly on my pc... and like many working pepole, I have no time to waste on such kind of issues, I want just to play in the spare time I have.... so -> plug in a Console and play in istants (after tons of patches, lol).

My post may looks like pc gaming is a mess, I don't think it is.
I think once you are set, it's a fantastic place with so many good games that does not exist on console, and also is obviously much better in terms of things you can do with it (again if you know how to use it). But you need a different kind of space to play, some knowledge to build the pc, and also you must not care about console exclusives titles, or care more about PCs one.

vixlar · May 15, 2017

"When PC is working is fine, when is not, is hell"

You know? I can say the same for consoles x 10

On one side, I can say that 99.99999% times the games will work in consoles with no major fixes. (Sometimes they need a day 1 patch)

But regarding hardware... If my disc reader fails (like it happened to my wii u) I'm screwed. I can't do nothing. Well, maybe trying to get a used one (expensive and difficult), or trying to call support (inexistent in Mexico). If my PC disc reader fails, I go to my electronics store and buy a new one cheap. And that's a piece that is "easy" to change in consoles, because you can just unplug and plug a new one. But a processor or a GPU... well, that's more difficult to do... In PC is just unplug the failing piece and put a new one.

Both consoles and PC can have problems, but at least is easier to me to repair those on PC.

PS: I couldn't repair my Wii U disc reader. Now I depend on downloading games to hard drive.

duckroll · May 15, 2017

Chalupa Batman said:
Did Overwatch launch at $40 on PC and $60 on consoles? If it did, that's fine, but if not, it's the same price at launch, and either way you could sell the console version a month after launch and get at least half your money back, still coming out ahead at net $30 on console versus net $40 on PC. As for userbase, I purposely said in general because there are exceptions to every rule and obviously Overwatch is one of them.

Does the average PC gamer know what Discord is or know about the PTR server? These are niche features and don't apply to the OP's question because people in the niche market have the patience and know-how to tinker with their PC.

I'm not replying to the OP. Read.

playXray · May 15, 2017

Fuck man, PC gaming is the bomb, but honestly I have to say that it's a ballache from time to time. The worst stuff is around launch time - on console you tend to get bugs that are occasionally game breaking, but on PC I've had bugs that continually reboot the whole computer after a short playtime, or simply refuse to launch at all.

It's just a natural side-effect of having to cater to so many configurations, and it's worth the minor hassle, but I can't pretend it isn't there.

XBP · May 15, 2017

Well because it is sometimes. I love pc gaming but a lot of times it gets really frustrating. E.g. for some reason rainbow six has stopped working for me and it's been a day and I have no fucking clue what happened.

Wonder Peter · May 15, 2017

jbluzb said:
It is still true that for every new game you need at least 1 hour of troubleshooting before you can play pc games.

Please tell me you're being sarcastic

nkarafo · May 15, 2017

Most people who tinker with their gaming PCs are the ones who care about the best possible graphical settings their hardware can deliver, with the best possible frame rate and frame pacing.

If you don't care about this then you should be fine with whatever default settings the games choose for you.

Savantcore · May 15, 2017

I just don't understand all these names for processors, graphics cards, CPUs, and what all these benchmarks and stuff means. And, to be honest, I can't really be bothered to find out.

That, and the fact that if I got a PC, I'd want it to be a decent one. So the initial cost of entry puts me off.

Renekton · May 15, 2017

packy34 said:
I like how you're just sitting in this thread, waiting for people to say PC gaming isn't hard, and then repeatedly posting this link. What are you trying to prove here?

I could post threads/videos about console hardware failing or not working properly too but i don't want to be a thread shitter.

Why not. Post that console tech support megathread here.

Budi · May 15, 2017

The misconception that just because you can tinker, you need to tinker. I've been using computers for my whole life basically. But I've never really digged deep into tinkering. I don't build my computers myself besides picking parts (even then with guidance by friends), I rarely change the parts by myself, I don't play around with mods or even games settings that much, haven't even considered overclocking. I sometimes might encounter some software problems but with my experience I'm decently comfortable trying to fix them myself, sometimes with the help of Google or once again friends.

Huge Succeeded · May 15, 2017

Chalupa Batman said:
This is the primary advantage as I see it, and why I don't bother with PC gaming.

I'll address this segment last.

Chalupa Batman said:
Like I said, the diversity of the library is subjective and thus cannot really be used in an argument.

You keep saying this, even though I haven't even brought the PC's library up. I'm going to call you out, on this transparent attempt of yours to pre-emptively handwave away an incredibly unique benefit of this platform, on the sole basis of 'subjectivity'. A term whose meaning apparently doesn't apply to your sweeping dismissal of the platform's 'advantages', for some reason. Going on-

I'm not going to make it out like the PC has an objectively more appealing lineup of games than any given console platform. However, the diversity of the PC library is not up for argument. It's objective fact. PC plays host to many unique genres and subgenres of game, moreso than consoles. What's subjective is how much that matters to you, but considering that the list of most played games on the planet (literally any you can source) are comprised largely by these titles is telling, and works against your arguments in this thread on multiple levels - the most obvious of which that most of those games are designed to be run on any toaster you throw them at. In addition, PC is backwards compatible to an extent that no other platform can match. I can play games I already purchased 10 years ago and enjoy them with the advantages that my hardware brings.

Chalupa Batman said:
Uncharted is my favorite game series, and Naughty Dog is my favorite developer, so I will buy whatever device they release their games on. I don't care about the breadth of RPGs or Indie games on PC, but undoubtedly others do, so again, it's pointless to argue this.

I am incredulous right now. You are literally trying to argue that a platform's library is of no consequence to its unique appeal. Fucking insanely situational argument that nobody has ever made outside of PC threads.

Chalupa Batman said:
As we see in NPD thread after NPD thread, the best-selling games are mass-market games that are generally available on PS4/Xbone/PC.

And anyone paying attention knows that retail sales don't tell anything close to a complete story. The mass market games you mention often pale in comparison (in terms of mindshare and revenue generated) to particular free-to-play (or inexpensive), low-spec PC games.

Chalupa Batman said:
The disadvantages, however, are probably more universal, as you can glean by reading this thread, and the fact that the OP is even asking this question in 2017. And, like I said, it has been asked in 2016, 2015, and every year since games were available on both PC and console.

I don't think you've read the thread if that's what you've gleaned by reading it, smh.

Chalupa Batman said:
This is the primary advantage as I see it, and why I don't bother with PC gaming.

So, here we are, back at the beginning. This is a wonderful example of how subjectivity doesn't seem to apply to you. You hone in on one 'primary advantage' as though a bevy of well-known unique attributes to the platform don't exist. Do you just not know? Are you speaking from a position of ignorance? Regardless, it's tiring.

Here's an abbreviated list of reasons why I choose to game on PC over my consoles -

because I prefer keyboard and mouse in most of my favorite genres
because I can use Logitech Gaming Software to enhance the functionality of my mouse and keyboard to my liking on a game-by-game basis
because I can use literally any controller I like on a case-by-case basis
legacy controllers, Xbox and Playstation controllers, HOTAS and wheels
even phones, tablets, and other gaming platforms
because I can use Steam to enhance the functionality of these controllers to my liking on a game-by-game basis
because I can modify games to my liking
modify the graphics, the controls, the audio
the fov, the resolution, the framerate
the gameplay and visuals via myriad mods available for many games
because I don't pay a monthly subscription to play my games online, which is my preference
because I can stream my video games to any device in my house, including my family's several PCs on our wired network, our several old laptops, our phones and tablets, our three Steam Links purchased at 20$ apiece - at a higher image quality and with better streaming performance than any console equivalent, by a large margin
because I can use Discord, which is a communication tool which far exceeds console equivalents in functionality and ease of use
because I can share my games with friends via Steam, and they can share games with me (900 games in my library 1 year in and I've spent as much on Steam as I have on my PS4 with 20-something games)
because I can play games like Tabletop Simulator, Civilization, Arma 3, Battlegrounds, you name it (but apparently exclusives or other unique grabs become a subjective matter when they're not those AAA games that 'everyone' loves? they even lose their diversity???)
because I love coming back to older games I already bought to play through again with improvements
because I love coming back to older console games I already bought to play through again with improvements
because I enjoy how much easier it's been to stream and take screenshots on PC
because I can multitask with ease (like I'm doing right now lol)
because I prefer using my cheap years-old monitor because it's got 1ms latency

I don't purport these things as objective advantages (by the way, clever use of words! transparent but clever). They're subjective. I purport these things as examples of reasons why I, and other people, choose to play games on PCs that aren't necessarily cutting edge. And the reasons don't stop there. Just as with consoles and their unique attributes lending them unique appeal, which is explained, justifiably and in painful detail, whenever somebody shitposts a "Why doesn't everybody game on PC" thread. (There's a recent one - I don't see you in there mentioning to people how none of a console's unique attributes could possibly constitute 'advantage', and are therefore null and void...)

My PC is midrange. I can do everything I listed, and I love it.

Quit your clowning. You just called Discord a 'niche feature', for fuck's sake. It's painfully obvious that you don't know shit about PC gaming 'in 2017' and you're picking from a well-honed list of console warrior talking points.

but wait - I just bought the new AAA Multiplat, and I don't have an HDR TV to play it on! I can't max out subsurface scattering and MSAA!

Guess I'm missing the point of PC gaming ¯\_(&#12484

_/¯

Jest Chillin · May 15, 2017

SmartWaffles said:
You also get significantly higher performance for what you pay, and "you have to keep upgrading" is total BS. A mid range PC built in 2012 (i5 3rd gen and something like a GTX670 or 760) which is before current gen consoles, is still faster than a PS4, and is still going to have at least on par visuals with better framerate performance in the majority of games. Even if the Kepler is struggling with later games, all it takes is a sub $300 GTX1060/RX580 to turn it into a 1080p60fps machine for years to come.

That mid-range PC (Which isn't really mid-range for 2012 as the 760 released in Feb '13 making it a lower end of Nvidia's higher line at the time) is going to run The Division at medium settings (and slightly worse than it should because The Division, for whatever reason, performs slightly worse on with Nvidia cards). A PS4 or Xbone will run it at max that it's designed for, for the lifetime of the system and game.

And "all it takes" is another $250 investment to run stuff from this year isn't a positive. That's more than half the price of a new console, which isn't a small amount of money. It's only comparatively small versus buying a whole new rig.

I'm actually in a similar spot to your example currently. i7-2600k and an HD 6770. CPU is actually fine for most applications but my GPU has basically just gotten outdated for most current games minimum specs. I'm looking at a $250+ price tag to upgrade to a 480/580, 1060, or better... only to likely have to upgrade my Mobo and CPU relatively soon after. So I have to weigh whether to go piecemeal or wait and save and just get a whole new rig to better future proof myself going forward. It's annoying but I deal because I enjoy playing games on PC (and certain genre's are just better there, like MMO's).

TheRedSnifit · May 15, 2017

The only time I tinker with my PC at all is when I cap the framerate at 61, and when I install mods.

Maybe I'm just lucky.

Widge · May 15, 2017

In direct reply to the title: because it is.

I don't have to fiddle with drivers but I have had plenty of issues over time that I accept as part and parcel of the platform along with all the benefits. The threshold of tolerance for others is different. Go into any of the PC performance threads on here, look at what people go through and ask "does that happen on console?" The answer is that it doesn't.

I've had plenty of idiosyncrasies that I've had to get past.

LA Noire won't start.
Controller inexplicably stopped responding in game on Elite Dangerous.
Pixeljunk Eden rendered with most of the display off screen.
Fallout 3 was notoriously crashy after Win7 and I went through hoops to get that working.
To The Moon refused to start. (Is also on iOS now so I expect that to just work)
Enslaved randomly swaps out character models with low poly ones.

I mean I'll take the gains that come with it but I'm under no illusions that the platform has issues that are absolute mass market deal breakers for many people who would find a console a better platform to be on. I mean add in the fact that you have to keep up with the technical aspect too. I went through an expensive baptism of fire going through upgrades on mine. I can just do it now but Christ you have to feel for the first timers.

Edit:

Primarily a PC gamer, only console I'd consider right now is a Switch or a very cheap bog standard PS4. I happily point people towards console if it gives them the best experience. Consoles are allowed to be better than PC.

packy34 · May 15, 2017

duckroll said:
But... what would that prove? There is no argument here saying console hardware doesn't fail. Console hardware can fail. You either get it replaced if under warranty, or begrudgingly replace it if it isn't. But it's one piece of hardware to replace. If a PC suffers a hardware failure, you either spend a lot more replacing the whole thing, or have to troubleshoot to find out what needs replacing to begin with.

Is it really that hard to accept that PC gaming does in fact come with hurdles that consoles do not?

Yes, because that just isn't reality anymore. It just isn't. When something in your PC fails, there are only a handful of things it can actually be, because truth be told there aren't that many pieces to a PC build. The most common are power supply failure, memory failure, a heating/cooling issue, and GPU failure. Each of these issues manifests differently, and each is easily testable.

If it isn't those things, it's the hard drive, the motherboard, the CPU, or the OS itself. That's it - it literally can not be anything else. I refuse to subscribe to the argument that the owner of a gaming PC wouldn't know how or understand how to diagnose and fix a hardware issue.

duckroll · May 15, 2017

packy34 said:
I refuse to subscribe to the argument that the owner of a gaming PC wouldn't know how or understand how to diagnose and fix a hardware issue.

You are correct. And that is why people who do not understand how to diagnose and fix such hardware issues are not owners of gaming PCs. Which.... is that point I was trying to make?

No one is saying here that PC gamers are unable to handle PC problems. We totally are. The question is why people who aren't PC gamers are afraid of jumping on board.

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