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Bioware bans SW:TOR player over internet meme

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D

DimmuBurgerKing

Member
Ah, memes. The lowest form of wit.

Clearly Bioware/EA is at fault here for not being "internet-hip" enough to realize this person was only mentally 12 years old.
 
B

Burekma

Member
Billychu said:
They can't knowingly have info on people below 13. A large website like Youtube can't keep track of every single post, it's just not reasonable.



Source
Click to expand...
OR, forum posts/youtube comments aren't a legitimate way to determine someones age and thus companies don't get fined shit when they don't act on them?

But I'm sure federal laws only applying to "manageable" userbases is a much more likely scenario.
 
B

blitzcloud

Banned
Also plagiarize, normally when banned, the data is still saved. So even if he gets banned, the data about the user would still be stored. It would just have a "banned" status. Now that I think about it twice tho, i've never been banned anywhere, so I can't really know they act like that. But I believe it works like that. If he gets unbanned, his details will still be there... I think.
 
N

NullPointer

Member
Dr Eggman said:
Actually
"I am twelve and what is this?"
or
"I am randomly announcing my age followed by what is this?"
Click to expand...
or
"I am a grown man but I'm going to randomly announce that I'm twelve followed by what is this?"

Definitely more likely and demanding of an immediate investigation.
 
P

plagiarize

Banned
Dr Eggman said:
Actually
"I am twelve and what is this?"
or
"I am randomly announcing my age followed by what is this?"
Click to expand...
the statement isn't ambiguous about the persons age. it's pretty damn specific about that.

to me, it sounds almost like something a twelve year old might write. if we believe the description of where the meme began, it was something a twelve year old originally wrote.
 
D

Deleted member 81567

Unconfirmed Member
plagiarize said:
to me, it sounds almost like something a twelve year old might write. if we believe the description of where the meme began, it was something a twelve year old originally wrote.
Click to expand...
Regardless, it's still not justifiable.


AmenAmazing said:
I have a question for you please?
Why I can't create a new thread in this forum? :'(
Click to expand...
Jeez, dude. You asked this in another thread too. You're a junior member and you have to reach Member status before creating a thread. Now stop asking or else you'll never see Member status
 
A

AmenAmazing

Neo Member
Dr Eggman said:
Regardless, it's still not justifiable.



Jeez, dude. You asked this in another thread too. You're a junior member and you have to reach Member status before creating a thread. Now stop asking or else you'll never see Member status
Click to expand...


sorry but how not to be a junior member
 
R

Remfin

Member
For people saying they should include something in the message about how to get unbanned...read what is allowed: COPPA compliance

The exceptions laid out make it pretty clear you need to 1.) immediately cease all contact with the child 2.) under certain circumstances you can send out ONE one-way communication to them.

If they included something about providing proof and blah blah, that would be taken as soliciting yet-more information in violation of the law. Hell, the only reason they could even communicate in the first place to tell them why they were banned would be a rather broad reading of the 5th exception.
 
W

Wario64

works for Gamestop (lol)
Remfin said:
For people saying they should include something in the message about how to get unbanned...read what is allowed: COPPA compliance

The exceptions laid out make it pretty clear you need to 1.) immediately cease all contact with the child 2.) under certain circumstances you can send out ONE one-way communication to them.

If they included something about providing proof and blah blah, that would be taken as soliciting yet-more information in violation of the law. Hell, the only reason they could even communicate in the first place to tell them why they were banned would be a rather broad reading of the 5th exception.
Click to expand...

Watch out, you'll be branded as an 'expert internet lawyer' and a defender of Bioware
 
B

blitzcloud

Banned
Remfin said:
For people saying they should include something in the message about how to get unbanned...read what is allowed: COPPA compliance

The exceptions laid out make it pretty clear you need to 1.) immediately cease all contact with the child 2.) under certain circumstances you can send out ONE one-way communication to them.

If they included something about providing proof and blah blah, that would be taken as soliciting yet-more information in violation of the law. Hell, the only reason they could even communicate in the first place to tell them why they were banned would be a rather broad reading of the 5th exception.
Click to expand...

Hey expert internet lawyer defender of Bioware, then what are the ways to get unbanned, if one should not even know why one is banned? You mean that if someone e-mails them saying: hello, i'm 12 years old and i'd like to know wether I can subscribe, they would not answer back? They really can't say: if this was a mistake of ours, please provide enough convincing proof you're within the legal age for playing this game?


Also...

Who Must Comply

If you operate a commercial Web site or an online service directed to children under 13 that collects personal information from children or if you operate a general audience Web site and have actual knowledge that you are collecting personal information from children, you must comply with the Children's Online Privacy Protection Act.
Click to expand...

So they do not have to comply, not because some small fish are sneaking in. Hence why they have the "i am 13 or older checkbox", and avoid all the paperwork that implies the "no age restriction".

In fact, it further expands:

To determine whether a Web site is directed to children, the FTC considers several factors, including the subject matter; visual or audio content; the age of models on the site; language; whether advertising on the Web site is directed to children; information regarding the age of the actual or intended audience; and whether a site uses animated characters or other child-oriented features.
Click to expand...
 
R

Reuenthal

Banned
I don't see a problem with the banning. A problem in miscommunication but they were not wrong to ban him and I don't hold it against them for not getting the meme and understanding from "I am 12 and what is this" that a 12 years old just told them his age. If he contacts them and the mistake can be rectified (if it is even a mistake in the first place and that person is indeed above 12 years old) then they should unban him.
 
R

Remfin

Member
blitzcloud said:
Hey expert internet lawyer defender of Bioware, then what are the ways to get unbanned, if one should not even know why one is banned? You mean that if someone e-mails them saying: hello, i'm 12 years old and i'd like to know wether I can subscribe, they would not answer back? They really can't say: if this was a mistake of ours, please provide enough convincing proof you're within the legal age for playing this game?
Click to expand...
You clearly did not read the link, because it address this exact request: Exception #2 "an operator collects an email address to respond to a one-time request from a child and then deletes it;"
So they do not have to comply, not because some small fish are sneaking in. Hence why they have the "i am 13 or older checkbox", and avoid all the paperwork that implies the "no age restriction".
Click to expand...
You purposefully bolded the wrong section of that sentence:
If you operate a commercial Web site or an online service directed to children under 13 that collects personal information from children or if you operate a general audience Web site and have actual knowledge that you are collecting personal information from children, you must comply with the Children's Online Privacy Protection Act.
Click to expand...
Any time you have actual knowledge you have collected a child's information you must comply.
 
R

remnant

Banned
So they do not have to comply, not because some small fish are sneaking in. Hence why they have the "i am 13 or older checkbox", and avoid all the paperwork that implies the "no age restriction".
Click to expand...

You really think EA could prove to a judge that SWTOR is not directed at all to children? It has no appeal to children? The MMO with the bright colors, flashy lights oh and the animated characters that appear multiple times in various media that are directly targeted at children.

God forbid why would EA not want to take that risk.
 
C

ClovingWestbrook

Banned
HP_Wuvcraft said:
Yes.

Because you downloaded it.

Are you honestly telling me that you are going to try to circumvent being banned by breaking the law? I'm sure Company X will completely forgive you once they see you back online.
Click to expand...

So if you you had 500 games on Steam and Valve decided to ban your entire account because of what happened with one purchase, you wouldn't download the games you legally bought? What happened if Valve were to go out of business and you no longer had access to the games you legally purchased? You wouldn't download them? If so I don't even know what to think.
 
B

blitzcloud

Banned
Remfin said:
You clearly did not read the link, because it address this exact request: Exception #2 "an operator collects an email address to respond to a one-time request from a child and then deletes it;"
You purposefully bolded the wrong section of that sentence:Any time you have actual knowledge you have collected a child's information you must comply.
Click to expand...

You must comply if they were to continue in the service. By blocking the service you're not complying to it, but rather avoiding all the problems. However, if they don't have proof that you're under that age, they should give you a way to verify that youre on the +13 age group

Remfim, we're still on the fact that they don't have proof he's below the age. A typo is enough of an excuse. "I'm 13 and what is this?"
 
E

Emitan

Member
blitzcloud said:
You must comply if they were to continue in the service. By blocking the service you're not complying to it, but rather avoiding all the problems. However, if they don't have proof that you're under that age, they should give you a way to verify that youre on the +13 age group
Click to expand...

Which is why they gave him an email address that he could use to make a case for himself.
 
E

echoshifting

Banned
Dude is a juvenile, pedantic idiot but I will never condone forum behavior translating into in-game repercussions.

It bothers me how these threads are inevitably distilled into "Camp A vs. Camp B" dynamics by garbage ad hominem attacks, though. People are raising good points on both sides.
 
B

blitzcloud

Banned
Billychu said:
Which is why they gave him an email address that he could use to make a case for himself.
Click to expand...
I know that. My only concern was that he said they should never try to tell them to provide proof that they are in the legal gaming age. Which is something I do not understand. If he's 12, to avoid the compliance of all the COPPA restrictions they cease his service. Ok. But that was just from a suspicion, not an actual proof. That's why some posts ago I said this is a very convoluted situation.
 
C

cpp_is_king

Member
_dementia said:
Does the punishment fit the crime? I don't think so.

But it's hilarious.
Click to expand...

Actually it fits the crime to the tee. If you are under 13, you are not allowed to play the game. Hence, they should delete your account.

The issue is that BioWare / EA can face legal action if the kids parents ever decide that they didn't want him playing the game in the first place.
 
U

unrenowned

Member
blitzcloud said:
You must comply if they were to continue in the service. By blocking the service you're not complying to it, but rather avoiding all the problems. However, if they don't have proof that you're under that age, they should give you a way to verify that youre on the +13 age group
Click to expand...
Given the information provided to them, they had actual information that they were collecting personal information from a child under the age of 13.
Add also the fact that the email provided an address where questions could be directed, such as "I'm not 12, here's a copy of my ID. Can I have my account back now?".

Say instead they kept the account open while waiting for the user to provide proof (in which case the user could be 12 years old), then the user would have to involve an adult (parent most likely). That parent may not approve of a child playing such a game and report it as a violation of the law. EA/Bioware would be fined and get some incredibly bad press, all this near the launch of such a big budget MMO.
 
H

HP_Wuvcraft

Banned
ClovingSteam said:
So if you you had 500 games on Steam and Valve decided to ban your entire account because of what happened with one purchase, you wouldn't download the games you legally bought? What happened if Valve were to go out of business and you no longer had access to the games you legally purchased? You wouldn't download them? If so I don't even know what to think.
Click to expand...

If you're asking me if I would break the law just to get my games back? No.

You pay for things with money.

After that, unless you get a refund, you never see that money again.

That's kind of how money works.
 
B

blitzcloud

Banned
also Rem, from what i'm reading, the whole COPPA revolves around websites with users below 13 y/o

The Children's Online Privacy Protection Act, effective April 21, 2000, applies to the online collection of personal information from children under 13.

However, they never got any proof of it. And the website never allowed a -13 child to register. I'm okay with them acting due to suspicion, but they aren't directed nor pretend to provide service to -13 kids. THat's why they save the information that he agreed to use an unstransferable service that forces you to be 13 or older.

However it may be one of those laws that get a mass reaction in the US when not complied, even if your service wasn't in the scope of the COPPA. So I guess I can understand why they locked him out as soon as they spotted a vague clue.
 
C

ClovingWestbrook

Banned
HP_Wuvcraft said:
If you're asking me if I would break the law just to get my games back? No.

You pay for things with money.

After that, unless you get a refund, you never see that money again.

That's kind of how money works.
Click to expand...

Except you're assuming that to ban an entire account is legal. Its not been tested in a US court. In Euro it most likely isn't. And no, jist agreeing to an SSA or TOS doesn't mean its valid if the TOS itself breaks law.
 
P

plagiarize

Banned
blitzcloud said:
also Rem, from what i'm reading, the whole COPPA revolves around websites with users below 13 y/o

The Children's Online Privacy Protection Act, effective April 21, 2000, applies to the online collection of personal information from children under 13.

However, they never got any proof of it. And the website never allowed a -13 child to register. I'm okay with them acting due to suspicion, but they aren't directed nor pretend to provide service to -13 kids. THat's why they save the information that he agreed to use an unstransferable service that forces you to be 13 or older.

However it may be one of those laws that get a mass reaction in the US when not complied, even if your service wasn't in the scope of the COPPA. So I guess I can understand why they locked him out as soon as they spotted a vague clue.
Click to expand...

the service is a Star Wars game. good luck trying to convince a judge that it wasn't aimed at kids under 13.
 
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