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One thing that Goldeneye still does better than most other games
- Thread starter nkarafo
- Start date
Necron
Member
The biggest mystery I've asked myself many times. However, the answer is simple really: it's too much work to implement. Edit: hey, at least it was in Timesplitters...
The sound effects and music are such a huge part of what made GoldenEye perfect as well.
That would be bots.
the_darkness
Banned
I'm guessing this is a result of the "fake" ballistics modelling in Goldeneye as opposed to poor collision detection in modern games.
In modern games you paint your target with a reticle perpendicular to your POV but the bullet fires from the actual barrel of your weapon which is usually offset by 15-20 degrees. So even though you can see through the gap, the straight line between your weapon and the target has a wall in the way.
In Goldeneye, bullets for firearms essentially come out of your eyeballs.
In modern games you paint your target with a reticle perpendicular to your POV but the bullet fires from the actual barrel of your weapon which is usually offset by 15-20 degrees. So even though you can see through the gap, the straight line between your weapon and the target has a wall in the way.
In Goldeneye, bullets for firearms essentially come out of your eyeballs.
Barrel Cannon
Member
The other great thing goldenrod had going for it was the sheer variety of unlockables. God I miss unlockables in video games. Feels like everything has to be in plain sight or DLC for this generation of children.
Refreshment.01
Member
Mousnis:
Your observation is something that people usually don't bring up when discussing this game. The precision aiming with it's dedicated button was basically an "iron sights" equivalent before CoD popularized it.
At the risk at ruffling some feathers i would say Golden Eye brought up more stuff to shooters than Half Life did. Saying this with all the respect, admiration and appreciation i feel for all the Half Life games in general. But Golden Eye was doing stuff back in may 1997 (when i first saw a video of the game) that not many shooters did before.
Your observation is something that people usually don't bring up when discussing this game. The precision aiming with it's dedicated button was basically an "iron sights" equivalent before CoD popularized it.
At the risk at ruffling some feathers i would say Golden Eye brought up more stuff to shooters than Half Life did. Saying this with all the respect, admiration and appreciation i feel for all the Half Life games in general. But Golden Eye was doing stuff back in may 1997 (when i first saw a video of the game) that not many shooters did before.
- Emphasis on cover gameplay and destructable cover.
- Stealth elements and different AI states.
- Very polished sniping gameplay wich was tied to the stealth elements.
- The scale of some of the levels and how this interacted with sniping.
- Realistic military setting and world building elements. Which affected the level design forcing the designers to come up with more authentic feeling levels. The mazes common of FPS at the time took a back seat.
- Level progression tied to difficulty level.
- Mission based gameplay that encouraged the player to be more rational about it's shooting habits. I.E.: Get to trigger happy destroying a mission critical piece of equipment and you fail the mission.
- The mission based progression also affected the order and pathways to complete a level.
- The use of gadgets to expand gameplay variety.
- "Realistic Physics". I.E. direction of explosions affected the direction in which enemies were thrown. Some objects reacted to the direction bullets impacted them. Gun stopping power affected speed of death animations.
- Precision aiming and how realistically it was conveyed. Even crouching increased gun precision.
- Detailed hitboxes and animations. SHooting guns out of enemy hands XD
- Detailed enemy idle animations.
- Vehicle combat.
- Force feedback in a console FPS.
- Companion AI.
- Particle and gun effects were a world apart for console game. Different bullets holes and effects depending on material. Some weapons could go through soft material or multiple bodies. The persistent smoke effect after an explotion was very well done.
- An earlier very cool vresion of achievements that enocuraged skilled and fast gameplay thanks to the locked cheat codes.
- Stat Tracking for missions and multi and multiplayer player performance awards.
- Neat little details in general: Like randomizing some level elements - the black box, Dr. Doak's location-, destroying or reducing the status of body armor or changing ammo boxes/weapon repawns in multiplayer by shooting those objects. All destructible level props, the mixed akimbo weapons glitch, Golden Gun puzzle, etc.
- Super inmersive UI design. i mean Bon wrist watch was basically a PDA. Hit start and the camera zooms to Bonds arm to get information about objectives, gadgets, health, options, etc.
It has every single type of FPS controls up to modern standards (WASD, Dual Analog and it's own hybrid of movement/camera stick controls). Or you mean how the game feels today due to low frame rate?
Objective based gameplay did catch on not just in shooters but all action games after it. However, not alwyas tied to difficulty.
The shooting lights wasn't just a cosmetic effect, it had impact in gameplay since it reduced the AI visibility and the player's however, some missions had the night vision gogles.
secretanchitman
Member
Yes it does and its easily one of the best FPS games ever made. The gameplay, animations, soundtrack, levels, and even UI are still amazing to this day.
I wish Nintendo werent so anal about the porting the game, otherwise we would have had Goldeneye HD by now. At least we got Perfect Dark HD on the 360/Xbone and it has some of the weapons from Goldeneye plus Temple, Complex and Facility.
I wish Nintendo werent so anal about the porting the game, otherwise we would have had Goldeneye HD by now. At least we got Perfect Dark HD on the 360/Xbone and it has some of the weapons from Goldeneye plus Temple, Complex and Facility.
Probably because a lot of players would miss that content, and we can't have that!
Seriously though, it seems like this paranoia amongst developers is behind a lot of terrible gameplay/level design these days.
nkarafo
Member
I also believe that tbh. And i also remember playing Half-Life which was released a year after Goldeneye and... it didn't feel all that special. I mean, it was still great but some things felt like a step back for me coming from Goldeneye. Like how there is no difference in what body part you shoot and how human models move like robots and they don't use motion capture. These were a big deal for me in Goldneneye and thought they were going to be a standard in all games after it.
Edit: You should also add real dual analog controls in your list. Goldeneye had them before any other FPS game by using a unique dual controller setup.
Markitron
Is currently staging a hunger strike outside Gearbox HQ while trying to hate them to death
I wasn't talking about objective-based gameplay, which was around long before GoldenEye. I was talking about objectives specifically tied to difficulty, which is extremely rare.
Bronetta
Ask me about the moon landing or the temperature at which jet fuel burns. You may be surprised at what you learn.
Not to downplay Goldeneye because that stuff was revolutionary in the 90s but OP have you played Rainbow 6 Siege? That game is all about the most precise of shots.
I just finished a match where an enemy created a bullethole in a wall and aimed through it to kill me outside on a rooftop.
I just finished a match where an enemy created a bullethole in a wall and aimed through it to kill me outside on a rooftop.
nkarafo
Member
Evil John Locke
Member
I've never liked another grenade launcher and I think it's because of Goldeneye. So beefy and powerful, maybe not realistic but damnit that's what I want my grenade launchers to do.
Bronetta
Ask me about the moon landing or the temperature at which jet fuel burns. You may be surprised at what you learn.
If you're a fan of precise shooters I'd highly recommend you check it out but be warned, its almost too tactical.
I'm still a relative newcomer who tends to aim through windows and doorways whereas some people create the tiniest holes in walls or floors through which to aim through. The game also has leaning which promotes aiming through the narrowest of line of sights
Great points. There's definite advantages and drawbacks to both 'modes' in Goldeneye.
You can freely move around, but your aiming will be reduced.
Or you can stand and shoot, which gives you access to the zoom feature on some of the rifles, the ability to utilize ducking and leaning as you mentioned, and also brings up the targeting reticle.
Maybe some of that was kind of forced on them because of the n64 and its controller, but it sure was effective.
In fact, I think the C Button leaning and ducking kind of makes the game. It meshes perfectly with the controller, environments, and enemy behavior.
Stallion Dan
Member
Best moving while kneeling animation too.
silverhick
Member
The thing that I loved about this game is that EVERYONE was playing it back then, casuals and hardcores alike. Every party in that era had a twinge of Goldeneye in it and it was fun dominating those less experienced.
Eaten By A Grue
Member
That was one of the best little details in that game. Poor guy sitting on the toilet always lost his hat.
nkarafo
Member
How many times his bulletproof hat saved his life so he can live for a few more seconds though?
D.Lo
Member
Great thread. I can never speak highly enough of this game. It pushed the genre forward and many of its ideas ended up in other genres while FPS got dumbed down to cinematic corridors with regenerating health.
I played it through on the cinema widescreen mode, which lowered resolution obviously, but dramatically improved frame rate, so give that a go if the frame rate kills it for you.
It's so weird that games like Half Life and Halo get so much credit (Halo in particular gets a lot of 'showed your could do an FPS on a console' credit) when IMO Goldeneye was far more revolutionary, a better designed game, and even a lot more popular (Goldeneye outsold both Half Life and Halo).
I played it through on the cinema widescreen mode, which lowered resolution obviously, but dramatically improved frame rate, so give that a go if the frame rate kills it for you.
It's so weird that games like Half Life and Halo get so much credit (Halo in particular gets a lot of 'showed your could do an FPS on a console' credit) when IMO Goldeneye was far more revolutionary, a better designed game, and even a lot more popular (Goldeneye outsold both Half Life and Halo).
The enemy characteristics in this game were really great too. Their positioning, behavior, and even which direction they were facing offered a lot of variety from a gameplay standpoint.
The silo is a great example because it's essentially the same series of rooms with very slight changes stacked on top of each other. But simply by revising the enemies and objects within that space they were able to create rich and varied gameplay on each floor that also built up in difficulty and then culminated with the confrontation with Ourumov.
And besides that, the way the enemies moved throughout the level just felt real. Or at least, more real than the hyper vigilant movement of MGS2 guards or the ultra slow movement of the guards in MGS3, just to pick two examples. Seeing a guard glide into view from a different part of the hallway and then smoothly turning to open fire not only was an effective gameplay idea but just looked right as well.
Such a well made game.
The silo is a great example because it's essentially the same series of rooms with very slight changes stacked on top of each other. But simply by revising the enemies and objects within that space they were able to create rich and varied gameplay on each floor that also built up in difficulty and then culminated with the confrontation with Ourumov.
And besides that, the way the enemies moved throughout the level just felt real. Or at least, more real than the hyper vigilant movement of MGS2 guards or the ultra slow movement of the guards in MGS3, just to pick two examples. Seeing a guard glide into view from a different part of the hallway and then smoothly turning to open fire not only was an effective gameplay idea but just looked right as well.
Such a well made game.
Sixfortyfive
He who pursues two rabbits gets two rabbits.
I was never much of an FPS guy. My experience with PC shooters is basically limited to a few Coutnerstrike LAN parties in high school, and I never really liked dual-analog controls so Halo was where my console FPS journey dead-ended.
My reference point for FPS is still the N64 duo of Goldeneye and Perfect Dark, so it's always weird to read that things like difficulty-tiered objectives and the like never became commonplace, let alone some of the aesthetic touches.
My reference point for FPS is still the N64 duo of Goldeneye and Perfect Dark, so it's always weird to read that things like difficulty-tiered objectives and the like never became commonplace, let alone some of the aesthetic touches.
Golden eye does a lot things better than most shooters.
I still find the way a enemy been hit satisfaction compared to other shooters.
Also the mission modes are great for replying the game. (so it's not only based on difficult)
The music and atmosphere of the game is also something that i didn't even had with perfect dark.
I still find the way a enemy been hit satisfaction compared to other shooters.
Also the mission modes are great for replying the game. (so it's not only based on difficult)
The music and atmosphere of the game is also something that i didn't even had with perfect dark.
Another thing Goldeneye does masterfully is hit reactions on the enemies.
They react differently no matter where you shoot them and have a huge amount of different animations and ways to die depending on where hit.
It really adds to the feel of the combat when enemies reacts so well.
It's a shame no other game has really managed to replicate this to Goldeneyes level.
The original Medal of Honor did. Same with MGS2 and MGS3 if I remember correctly. You're right though that the hit reactions were done masterfully.
Toadthemushroom
Member
It is a really good level. I was tempted to make another thread called "One more thing that GoldenEye still does better..." but decided not to. But we should definitely celebrate the game's level design another time. People like to point at the controls and state that GoldenEye has aged as a whole, but I find that unfair. There are elements of the game which remain very characteristic today, and the level design is still fantastic. I was glad that John from Digital Foundry found it to still be a compelling game today when he made a video on it recently, while also pointing out that it's a pre-cursor to something like Hitman (2016).
Goldeneye 20th anniversary is on August 25th. We should have a thread for sure.
matrix-cat
Member
MGSV does this well. In most games, if an enemy wears a helmet it basically just means the devs want you to land two headshots on them; even if you shoot them square in the unprotected face it just pops their helmets off. In MGSV you can land a sniper shot through tiny gaps in level geometry and get them right in the face if you have the right angle.
daTRUballin
Member
Isn't there a detailed film documentary being made about Goldeneye and it's supposed to come out this year in time for the game's 20th anniversary? I remember reading something like that.......Would be interesting to see for sure.
It's because the bullets don't physically come out of your gun but rather centre of the screen and also the weapons themselves are hitscan.
Games made today use ballistics for the bullets and have it come out of the gun, which is why you have situations where you can't seem to hit something through a small crack, especially if you are close to the object that has a crack.
Another key factor that affects this is the complexity of the geometry, back in the day everything was square, rectangular and simple. Today we have geometry of varying shapes BUT the hitboxes of those geometry are still simple box shapes this causes a disconnect between the actual geometry and its hitbox. Which is why you can have arrows sticking out in thin air or bullets getting blocked by an invisible barrier because the hitbox of that geometry might at times extend past the visible outline of the geometry.
Games made today use ballistics for the bullets and have it come out of the gun, which is why you have situations where you can't seem to hit something through a small crack, especially if you are close to the object that has a crack.
Another key factor that affects this is the complexity of the geometry, back in the day everything was square, rectangular and simple. Today we have geometry of varying shapes BUT the hitboxes of those geometry are still simple box shapes this causes a disconnect between the actual geometry and its hitbox. Which is why you can have arrows sticking out in thin air or bullets getting blocked by an invisible barrier because the hitbox of that geometry might at times extend past the visible outline of the geometry.
Coreda
Member
I so wish there were more games with a paintball mode
nkarafo
Member
A surprise release of the HD remaster would also be interesting to see.
Or a leak at least
This makes sense. However there were also many old games with even simpler geometry than Goldeneye where the invisible barrier was still there. I remember the original Turok being pretty bad at this.
daTRUballin
Member
That would make too much sense, so it's not going to happen.......
I just googled it, didn't know it was a thing. I hope they can release it.
kamikazekoala
Member
Maybe they could change their mind now? Like the crossplay for Minecraft? It sure would be a dream
Baleoce
Member
They had replayability down to a tee. I've literally never felt like replaying missions in an fps as much as I did in this and perfect dark. That's entirely subjective though. I loved some of the speed running achievements as well. Or just that there were unlocks for beating missions in various times. The unlocks were crazy fun too. Silly things like DK mode. Was just very entertaining.
Funny I was just thinking about this game just yesterday, specifically this amazing fact:
Something I really liked about Golden Eye 007 was how easy it was to tell where you were aiming, even without using the target function.
I can't - consistently - do that in Battlefield for the life of me.
(In competitive 007 play with high-level friends, it was kind of an unwritten rule not to use the targeting. It was like an admission of being less skilled.)
I was able to pluck guys from the farthest end of any level, with a single shot("-4" health was our sweet spot, in addition to license to kill) time and time again. There was just something about the angle of the gun that made your perception and aiming so damn accurate.
Something I really liked about Golden Eye 007 was how easy it was to tell where you were aiming, even without using the target function.
I can't - consistently - do that in Battlefield for the life of me.
(In competitive 007 play with high-level friends, it was kind of an unwritten rule not to use the targeting. It was like an admission of being less skilled.)
I was able to pluck guys from the farthest end of any level, with a single shot("-4" health was our sweet spot, in addition to license to kill) time and time again. There was just something about the angle of the gun that made your perception and aiming so damn accurate.
BigTnaples
Todd Howard's Secret GAF Account
Perfect Dark was even better.
And does a TON of stuff better than modern games.
And does a TON of stuff better than modern games.
Lionheart1827
Member
Yup. I actually fired up PD on 64 with a bud of mine last week for good ole times and I was still blown away at the amount of content and customization options in mp. There's sooo many options. There's also a full Co op and counter Co op campaign which is crazy. I can't imagine how much QA went in to test all of the features in the game.
Goldeneye did not outsell Half-Life.
The true genius of that score is how much variation Kirkhope got out of a single core theme.
D.Lo
Member
Yes, it did.
As of 2004, Half LIfe had sold 8 million copies source. A huge amount of that was surely due to the later boost it got from the Counter Strike mod too.
Goldeneye's last sales figure, reported in 2001 by Nintendo, was 8.1 million. Contemporarily Goldeneye outsold Half Life. I'm sure in the years in between it sold some more copies for $5 on steam, but that would be like counting VC releases of Super Mario Bros in original releases, or the iOS port of GTA3 alongside the original PS2 release.