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Marvel's The Defenders *SPOILER THREAD* |OT| Super Friends - August 18th on Netflix

Oh, and to echo some thoughts/etc. in here, I thought for sure they were setting up an Alfred-dressed-as-Batman / Black Panther: Man Without Fear thing after Foggy said "They have to see you leave as a lawyer." I was expecting someone else to dress up as DD and be seen with Matt to throw off suspicion, and then at the end when Matt whispered something to Danny I'm like ohhh shit he doesn't want people to realize DD and Matt disappeared at the same time, he's asking Danny to be Daredevil for at least a while.


Nope. I was 100% expecting that rooftop shot to be of a person in the Daredevil costume whose fist then lit up.

Then ten seconds later they show Matt alive anyway (which I get they had to because DDS3, but..)

Him slipping up is the final thing Kingpin needs to confirm his suspicions... Born. Again.
 
- Still, I see some folks being all confused (why can Luke be hurt by Hand people!?), but its been pretty clear since the beginning that the fingers posess great abillity because they were former students of K'un-Lun. That was pretty clear to me, but maybe thats comic logic and I understand that shit even if it doesn't make any sense.

Why is this even up for debate? Not only are they former students of K'un-Lun they're centuries old (maybe even millennia) so have had a long time to master any mystic forms of martial arts.

Anyway, Gao was good as was Murukami. Hopefully they're back.

As for K'un-Lun I always thought they removed themselves from the world / this dimension. It does get periodically get cut off from the world naturally from time to time but perhaps this time without an Iron Fist to protect them they did something out of the ordinary. Maybe seeing what he wants to see is all about perception/being worthy/whatever.

In fact it puzzled me why Danny thought it had been destroyed in the first place.
 

cj_iwakura

Member
"You touch me like that again, I'll hit you so hard you'll see."

Jessica has some great lines.
She had the best lines in the show. So what's the official stance on JJ and LC here? "What might have been" only?

I feel like the show would be vastly more interesting if they were a couple instead of Luke and Claire.
 
She had the best lines in the show. So what's the official stance on JJ and LC here? "What might have been" only?

I feel like the show would be vastly more interesting if they were a couple instead of Luke and Claire.
Didn't he say "worth getting shot in the face for Jessica Jones!"

Few things he said where if I was Claire I'd be like... huh... okay...
 

cj_iwakura

Member
Didn't he say "worth getting shot in the face for Jessica Jones!"

Few things he said where if I was Claire I'd be like... huh... okay...
They seemed to be making an effort to imply some ongoing mutual interest.

Might be interesting if they wind up doing an affair type thing. Messed up for Claire, but interesting.
 

Sheroking

Member
The whole thing was clumsy and undercooked IMO. Notably worse than either Daredevil season, Luke Cage or Jessica Jones - which all had their problems, but were put together a lot more competently than this.

The problem, IMO, is that The Hand doesn't conceptually fit with Jessica Jones or Luke Cage as they've been developed here at all. So you have to spend a lot of time getting these characters to come around to it, and by the time you accomplish that, they still stick out.

With only 8 episodes, they can't navigate all of the necessary exposition, world-building, dynamics and relationships with any care or measure - so everything feels so forced. Add on to that: This season looks and feels 'cheap' compared to past seasons, and it doesn't even fit the bill as a spectacle.

It's not the worst thing I've ever seen. Iron Fist is definitely worse. It's just not very good, either.
 

devilhawk

Member
I liked it; I was pretty well entertained. I thought JJ was probably the best character here, and I liked her far more than in her own show.

Since I haven't watched Iron Fist, I thought Danny was annoying but not awful. His gf/wife/partner, the Sand Snake, was easily the worst thing in the show and she was in every single scene. They nicely minimized the Daredevil side characters to be solid and just for important interactions though. I liked Elektra well enough too.

Edit: Oh yeah, what happened to the elevator? Like, it's still falling?
 
On further reflection. This show was pretty ass. The plot, a lot of the writing, cinematography, characters and some of the acting. Ass.

Like, I feel like the only thing that's stopping some people from realising this or letting them purposely overlook that all is they're basically too busy fangasming at the characters on screen together.

It was ultimately both 1) unnecessary and 2) had an unnecessary build up.
Largely agreed. Bah.
 

Pkaz01

Member
Stick is a giant asshole but he was the only one in the group with some sense. Should've cut off Suwande's head a long time before they actually did. Can't wait for the Punisher and his no nonsense ways.
 

DeathyBoy

Banned
Stick is a giant asshole but he was the only one in the group with some sense. Should've cut off Suwande's head a long time before they actually did. Can't wait for the Punisher and his no nonsense ways.

Stick is some absurd shit. Dude cut off his own hand then shrugged it off. Awful character in terms of coherence.
 

Grizzlyjin

Supersonic, idiotic, disconnecting, not respecting, who would really ever wanna go and top that
The hallmark of bad tv, characters getting knocked out constantly. Whoops, Danny is knocked out. Whoops, Luke is knocked out. Whoops, Jessica is knocked out. Whoops, Matt is knocked out. Whoops, Danny is knocked out AGAIN. Whoops, Luke is knocked out AGAIN.

This is one episode.
 

Pkaz01

Member
Stick is some absurd shit. Dude cut off his own hand then shrugged it off. Awful character in terms of coherence.

Unfortunately I feel that way about most of the characters, With the scope of their powers and their decisions/intelligence level. Kind of all over the place depending on what level of drugs the writers are on that episode.
 

Dysun

Member
Outside of Nobu in Daredevil Season 1, The Hand has been largely mishandled and lame. I really don't want to see these people any more
 

Glass Rebel

Member
For a brief second I was almost expecting Danny in his Iron Fist costume at the end. I don't know why I keep disappointing myself.
photo-classic-costume-cameo-in-iron-fist-696x464.jpg

T_T

The tracksuit Danny was wearing as a basis for his suit would be fine. The most recent IF in comics has that tracksuit look as well.
 
These shows were definitely better when they were crime dramas rather than about martial arts. Plot felt like it was an excuse to move them from fighting stage to the next, like this was Streets of Rage / Final Fight.
 

Feltrol

Banned
These shows were definitely better when they were crime dramas rather than about martial arts. Plot felt like it was an excuse to move them from fighting stage to the next, like this was Streets of Rage / Final Fight.

Of course they were out of their usual element because they were going against a bigger threat. No more playing around.
 
Are the people in K'un-Lun really wiped out? I mean The Hand wanted to go back to K'un-Lun and If they were there and killed everyone why return to New York?
I think there was a quick line that suggested Elektra was the one who went to Kun Lun and killed the people there. The Five Fingers were forbidden from getting to Kun Lun themselves.
 

Feltrol

Banned
I think there was a quick line that suggested Elektra was the one who went to Kun Lun and killed the people there. The Five Fingers were forbidden from getting to Kun Lun themselves.

Elektra tells Danny in episode 11 that she, in fact, was the one that wiped out Kun´Lun to taunt him -- which worked perfectly.
 

Harmen

Member
Some questions:

-What is the deal with Black Skye. Is she really just a skilled warrior and nothing more? With three shows worth of hyping and Alexandria risking the lives of the 5 fingers, you'd think it would be some unstoppable force, rather than a skilled individual that doesn't know what she wants and one that almost loses to DD alone. Or someone with a special power or something.

-Why did Elektra not have a hearbeat and why did she lose her memories (to some extent)? The five fingers of the hand do not seem to have these problems?

-If the hand warriors can hurt Cage with a punch, couldn't they obliterate DD, JJ, and especially IF with a mere hit? Or are there some rules to this ki stuff I am not aware of?

-As for the Hand, I am confused and I feel I likely missed some crucial dialouge due to me not paying attention for the last three episodes: What is the deal with the dragon bones? How did the hand know what was beyond the wall/door? Was this the "resource" Alexandria kept talking about that they ran out of (as in, the same stuff they had before)? And why was New York in danger? They said the removal of the "resource" would mean destruction for New York. Initially I thought their goal was to destroy New York (like they did with Pompei and the likes), but now it seems like a side effect of... removing bones?

-So aside from gaining immortality trough those dragon bones, does the Hand have an ultimate goal they fight for when they are not searching for "resources"?

-Where are all those ninjas? Did they run out of them post DD/IF?
 

SpaceWolf

Banned
I'm genuinely fascinated to see how they're planning on pulling off Misty Knight's Winter Solider style cybernetic arm on a television budget.
 
This didn't work. None of the characters have chemistry with each other. At the end, why was everyone sad about Matt? They didn't fucking know each other. Jessica met him maybe 2 or 3 days before?

The one character I wanted to learn about, Alexandra, Gao and the others went absolutely nowhwere. Are we even going to see Kun Lun? Or why everyone has such a hard on for it? I'm not buying it.

The supporting cast is exhausting. Claire is there to reorient everyone's moral compass and give some encouragement in every fucking scene. Shes not really even a character, more of a plot device. Karen is the anti-Skyler White. She wants her man to stop doing risky and potentially self destructive stuff because hes actually helping people. Uggggh. Why is everyone so stupid?

D+ for Netflix. D for Defenders.
 

Vic_Viper

Member
The tracksuit Danny was wearing as a basis for his suit would be fine. The most recent IF in comics has that tracksuit look as well.

Yeah his Mask is the real part of the "costume" that people want to see and even Finn Jones wants to see. I think the ending of the Defenders moves Danny's character into a position to start thinking about how he can best serve the people of NYC instead of just Kun Lun. I can totally see him taking on the role of a hero in IF Season 2 now more than I did after watching Iron Fist Season 1.

Seems like DD's storyline gained the most from the Defenders, with IF following in second. JJ has decided to start working again and has learned more about her power. Luke seems the only one that hasnt really gained anything from the Defenders, accept maybe bringing him and JJ closer again.

I expect she will have a bionic arm by season 2 of luke cage.

Thats exactly what they were setting up lol. Danny's Rand Corp ownes the Hospital, plus they have advanced prosthetic tech.

misty-knight-comic.jpg
 
I will never get tired of everybody bullying Danny and laughing at his silly shit, even the goddamn restaurant owner fleeced his ass for 6 months rent and like 500 bucks in food
 
Stick is some absurd shit. Dude cut off his own hand then shrugged it off. Awful character in terms of coherence.

He's a badass ninja trained for war with extremely high discipline and mental control. He was about to die so he made the only move he could with his hand. He "shrugged it off" because he's well established as not being the type to whine.

What's hard to understand about that? It fit perfectly.
 
Some questions:

-What is the deal with Black Skye. Is she really just a skilled warrior and nothing more? With three shows worth of hyping and Alexandria risking the lives of the 5 fingers, you'd think it would be some unstoppable force, rather than a skilled individual that doesn't know what she wants and one that almost loses to DD alone. Or someone with a special power or something.

I believe the extent of it was the strength and durability increase she got similar to Luke Cage, and Jessica Jones. And the whole black sky prophecy was never explained outside of Alexandria making it up, and they didn't developer her either. So it was all meaningless in a way.

-Why did Elektra not have a hearbeat and why did she lose her memories (to some extent)? The five fingers of the hand do not seem to have these problems?

They never explained the heartbeat in relation to the other Hand members. In DD, they were able to mask it, but it sounded like it was from training, not because they were dead. The memories were deliberately wiped, at least that is what Alexandria said.

-If the hand warriors can hurt Cage with a punch, couldn't they obliterate DD, JJ, and especially IF with a mere hit? Or are there some rules to this ki stuff I am not aware of?

We never really saw Luke get hurt with any of their hits. The only time he knocked out was after stick drugged him, and was hit in the head by super powered Electra.

-As for the Hand, I am confused and I feel I likely missed some crucial dialouge due to me not paying attention for the last three episodes: What is the deal with the dragon bones? How did the hand know what was beyond the wall/door? Was this the "resource" Alexandria kept talking about that they ran out of (as in, the same stuff they had before)? And why was New York in danger? They said the removal of the "resource" would mean destruction for New York. Initially I thought their goal was to destroy New York (like they did with Pompei and the likes), but now it seems like a side effect of... removing bones?

The dragon bones can be ground down to make the resurrection substance. They probably knew what was down there due to being around when the city was built, but this was never explained. It was never fully explained, but the removing of the bones would break the foundation of the city causing it to collapse. It was implied that all of the other fallen cities met with natural disasters because the dragon bones were removed. The why is not delved into too much. Maybe we will get some better writing in IF 2.

-So aside from gaining immortality trough those dragon bones, does the Hand have an ultimate goal they fight for when they are not searching for "resources"?

Just immortality and running the world. Some of them wanted to get back to Kun Lun, how they would achieve that is never explained. Show was super vague and poorly constructed around the hand.

-Where are all those ninjas? Did they run out of them post DD/IF?

The ninjas were mostly killed off during Daredevil season 2. They ran out of the resurrection substance. Plus Nobu headed the ninja portion of the hand under Murakami. Murakami was implied to attack directly when he was involved. So maybe they can bring the ninjas back later on because they were not involved. Either way, it was most likely due to budget. The same reason we did not get Punisher mowing down a 100 of them with a mini-gun at the end of DD S2. Better writing could have fixed a lot with this show and the lack of a budget.
 
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