Spartancarver
Member
I thought Sowande was the coolest Hand leader, so naturally he's the one that got killed first -_-
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Marvel's The Defenders *SPOILER THREAD* |OT| Super Friends - August 18th on Netflix
- Thread starter TheOddOne
- Start date
Well he is of a certain complexion that would naturally lead him to bite the bullet first in a group
After thinking about it for a bit it seems really odd the fingers of the hand managed to live so long without someone cutting of their heads.
The hand could have been just Madam Gowe and nothing would have changed, Kuboto or whatever that yoga instructor's name was never seemed like a threat besides bothering Colleen, he didn't seem any stronger than her.
There was this arms dealer that got captured rather easily off-screen and then cut down.
Japanese Businessman, I don't even remember what his significance was. He was able to speak Japanese to Sigourney and had auto translate on.
Sigourney was the boss of them all but didn't really show why she had the upper hand on them, Madam Goa and that Flame Ninja from DareDevil were the only ones actually forming an actual treat.
The hand could have been just Madam Gowe and nothing would have changed, Kuboto or whatever that yoga instructor's name was never seemed like a threat besides bothering Colleen, he didn't seem any stronger than her.
There was this arms dealer that got captured rather easily off-screen and then cut down.
Japanese Businessman, I don't even remember what his significance was. He was able to speak Japanese to Sigourney and had auto translate on.
Sigourney was the boss of them all but didn't really show why she had the upper hand on them, Madam Goa and that Flame Ninja from DareDevil were the only ones actually forming an actual treat.
RedAssedApe
Banned
Danny Rand hate is real. Coleen is just as annoyingly serious/angst-y at times.
I actually found him much less annoying than in IF as he had the other Defenders in there to play off of. Dude was just getting little bro-ed by the rest of the Defenders.
I actually found him much less annoying than in IF as he had the other Defenders in there to play off of. Dude was just getting little bro-ed by the rest of the Defenders.
Nice, you remembered.
Meh, at least we got to see an actual black couple in the MCU lol
Lmao, yep
Wonder how Luke Cage's 2nd half would've fared if he replaced Diamondback...
Mike Works
Member
Finished it.
Dull.
At this point I'm in for DD and Punisher, and even then these series are on a thin leash with me.
Why does DD season 1 have a better fight scene than anything in the Defenders? I don't get it.
Dull.
At this point I'm in for DD and Punisher, and even then these series are on a thin leash with me.
Why does DD season 1 have a better fight scene than anything in the Defenders? I don't get it.
peanutbutterlatte
Member
DD Season 1 showed such promise. I can't even imagine what would have happened if the Netflix series had persisted in this quality.
...said no one ever?
Like that was one of my bigger issues with the story. It really felt inorganic and contrived despite every reason to not be.
Mike Works
Member
Also in the last or second to last episode, Misty walks up to the dude from the hand (who decapitates her arm) and fires like 3 point blank shots into him and he just smiles. I thought they were vulnerable now? I didn't understand that.
RedAssedApe
Banned
different fight choreographers. additional actors. fight scenes with multiple characters with varying levels of training. dd gets to wear a mask.
danny rand fights were better than on his own show.
different fight choreographers. additional actors. fight scenes with multiple characters with varying levels of training. dd gets to wear a mask.
danny rand fights were better than on his own show.
Daredevil/Defenders also jumped showrunners around to the point where it went Goddard, DeKnight, Petrie + Ramirez to now just Ramirez. The first two episodes of Daredevil S1 where shepherded in by Goddard, and that's arguably the best atmosphere and fight scene the series has had.
I know Alexandra's leadership and planning was bottom half Netflix Marvel villain tier but at least they were trying to build a character with motivations and history. Elektra's coup just felt random. There was no thematic or emotional attachment to this character aside from Daredevil blindly loves her despite everything. She stumbles around with amnesia for the first half before giddily cackling like the worst part of DD season 2 once the amnesia wore off.
Madame GAo suffers twofold, first answering loyaly to Alexandra's bizarre scheme and then caving to Elektra's coup. The other members of the Hand had no menace to lose.
The banter between Defenders was cute though as long as they're not talking about the plot. The color coding was fun too but dunno why they didn't give Iron Fist yellow. Didn't contrast with the glowing fist very well?
Madame GAo suffers twofold, first answering loyaly to Alexandra's bizarre scheme and then caving to Elektra's coup. The other members of the Hand had no menace to lose.
The banter between Defenders was cute though as long as they're not talking about the plot. The color coding was fun too but dunno why they didn't give Iron Fist yellow. Didn't contrast with the glowing fist very well?
Luke already has yellow, that's his color. Danny is traditionally green and yellow and they went with the one that wasn't already in use.
The power of love.
But I just did...
RedAssedApe
Banned
Sho_Nuff82
Member
Just finished.
This was...bad.
Not Iron Fist bad, but I think I'm starting to lose interest in Marvel's TV formula. Elektra's motivation was just...eh. The great "beyond the wall reveal" was just...eh. The final two fight scenes were just...eh. The cast gets away with all kinds of crimes with almost zero explanation. And they undid their own dramatic stakes with the closing shot.
I'm almost upset that I forced myself through IF to warm up for this.
This was...bad.
Not Iron Fist bad, but I think I'm starting to lose interest in Marvel's TV formula. Elektra's motivation was just...eh. The great "beyond the wall reveal" was just...eh. The final two fight scenes were just...eh. The cast gets away with all kinds of crimes with almost zero explanation. And they undid their own dramatic stakes with the closing shot.
I'm almost upset that I forced myself through IF to warm up for this.
TheGreatDirector
Banned
Did they not bother to dye Charlie Cox's hair? I remember it being red in Daredevil but here it looks pretty black/dark brown.
Finished this. Overall, it's okay but the budget constraints really show, and the writing isn't good enough to compensate.
- Daredevil is the best and remains the best. I loved all his fighting scenes, and Charlie Cox is just exceptional in all of his scenes. Karen and Foggy were used sparingly, which I appreciated.
- Jessica was okay but I wish they visually represented her powers better. She just punches and throws hard, I guess. She does get that one cool shot of her holding up the elevator by its cable though. Still, I love her presence in the show.
- Luke, again I wish they found more interesting ways to visualize his powers. The power levels in this show are all over the place. I liked his interactions with Claire, Danny, and Jessica. Misty loses her arm! Gnarly! I hope this means she and Colleen get her own show at some point.
- Danny. Uhhhh. Well. He's better here than in his own show, but he's still an annoying brat and once again his powers aren't fully realized. Also, for a master martial artist, he comes off real bad and gets upstaged by Daredevil pretty much all the time. Still, when he actually uses the Iron Fist, it's pretty cool. Also, Colleen is great and I wish she had more to do. Maybe in a future Misty/Colleen series!
- The Hand was whack. Their threat level was poorly established and they spent more time bickering amongst each other rather than doing cool evil stuff. Japanese guy did absolutely NOTHING. Bakuto also does NOTHING until the end. Alexandra got offed like a CHUMP. what a waste of the great Sigourney Weaver. Madam Gao was good but I wish she had lead The Hand. She was the only one with clearly defined powers and a threat level that has been established through Daredevil S1 & 2 as well as Iron Fist.
And why no ninjas? Why only a (small) army of regular thugs? And they could only afford to arm like two of them with guns? What?
The end fight in the cave was really lame. Sure, there's a cool long take where the camera spins around showing each Defender fighting, but none of the fighting was actually noteworthy during the shot. You have Daredevil punching some dudes, Danny punching some dudes, Jessica punching some dudes, and Luke punching some dudes. Yay? So lame. FUCKING LAME.
And the building collapses directly into the hole (lol) and apparently the city/NYPD won't press charges against the Defenders for reasons I will never understand.
Oh well. I still enjoyed it whenever the Defenders mingled with each other and whenever the four were together doing stuff. Still, I think this was a real missed opportunity to GO REALLY BIG. Instead it just feels like another standard season of Marvel Netflix. Bleh.
- Daredevil is the best and remains the best. I loved all his fighting scenes, and Charlie Cox is just exceptional in all of his scenes. Karen and Foggy were used sparingly, which I appreciated.
- Jessica was okay but I wish they visually represented her powers better. She just punches and throws hard, I guess. She does get that one cool shot of her holding up the elevator by its cable though. Still, I love her presence in the show.
- Luke, again I wish they found more interesting ways to visualize his powers. The power levels in this show are all over the place. I liked his interactions with Claire, Danny, and Jessica. Misty loses her arm! Gnarly! I hope this means she and Colleen get her own show at some point.
- Danny. Uhhhh. Well. He's better here than in his own show, but he's still an annoying brat and once again his powers aren't fully realized. Also, for a master martial artist, he comes off real bad and gets upstaged by Daredevil pretty much all the time. Still, when he actually uses the Iron Fist, it's pretty cool. Also, Colleen is great and I wish she had more to do. Maybe in a future Misty/Colleen series!
- The Hand was whack. Their threat level was poorly established and they spent more time bickering amongst each other rather than doing cool evil stuff. Japanese guy did absolutely NOTHING. Bakuto also does NOTHING until the end. Alexandra got offed like a CHUMP. what a waste of the great Sigourney Weaver. Madam Gao was good but I wish she had lead The Hand. She was the only one with clearly defined powers and a threat level that has been established through Daredevil S1 & 2 as well as Iron Fist.
And why no ninjas? Why only a (small) army of regular thugs? And they could only afford to arm like two of them with guns? What?
The end fight in the cave was really lame. Sure, there's a cool long take where the camera spins around showing each Defender fighting, but none of the fighting was actually noteworthy during the shot. You have Daredevil punching some dudes, Danny punching some dudes, Jessica punching some dudes, and Luke punching some dudes. Yay? So lame. FUCKING LAME.
And the building collapses directly into the hole (lol) and apparently the city/NYPD won't press charges against the Defenders for reasons I will never understand.
Oh well. I still enjoyed it whenever the Defenders mingled with each other and whenever the four were together doing stuff. Still, I think this was a real missed opportunity to GO REALLY BIG. Instead it just feels like another standard season of Marvel Netflix. Bleh.
KarneeKarnay
Member
I hope the reaction to defenders gives the studio heads time to reflect. They aren't doing a good job and haven't for a while now. No one likes a series that starts off strong, but ends boring.
What we need is someone with real passion for the comics. Someone who has a love for the characters and who can work well with writers. This right now, is just boring. I want to know what went wrong, why their budget was so low in places, why the fight scenes in general were worse shot and setup in DDS1.
What we need is someone with real passion for the comics. Someone who has a love for the characters and who can work well with writers. This right now, is just boring. I want to know what went wrong, why their budget was so low in places, why the fight scenes in general were worse shot and setup in DDS1.
CaviarMeths
Member
Finished this. It was... a solid improvement on Iron Fist, I suppose. It's still not particularly good though. Netflix Marvel is really starting to stumble, isn't it? Second half of Luke Cage wasn't great with a pretty damn bad final episode. Iron Fist was complete pants the entire way through. This was just mediocre.
Hopefully they can pick up again and get things back on track. Daredevil S1, first four episodes of S2, Jessica Jones, and first seven episodes of Luke Cage are all fantastic, top-tier cape TV.
Hopefully they can pick up again and get things back on track. Daredevil S1, first four episodes of S2, Jessica Jones, and first seven episodes of Luke Cage are all fantastic, top-tier cape TV.
cj_iwakura
Member
I think a biracial one is more progressive.
matrix-cat
Member
Finished the series, I guess. I can barely think of anything to say, it was just perfectly mediocre. Definitely the worst of the Marvel Netflix shows I've seen (all but Iron Fist. btw, has Danny ever actually won a fight against a named character?).
The only thing that stuck out to me was how unoriginal Sigourney Weaver's character was; just a walking bundle of cliches. How does a hack writer present the idea that a character appreciates the finer things in life? How about a scene where a literal string quartet play music for her, and then another character walks up from off-screen to complement her on her amazing knowledge of classical music just in case you didn't get it? Basically every time she's on screen they feel the need to remind us that, A) she's old and, B) she's snooty. And then, for good measure, she drops an honest-to-God "We're not so different, you and I" to Danny.
AND THEN ELEKTRA DOES IT AGAIN IN THE NEXT EPISODE!
There was maybe a cumulative thirty seconds of good, thumpy fight choreography in the whole series, but most of it was just the usual incoherent shots of two figures in black clothes flailing in the dark to a soundtrack of biffs. Most of the time it felt like the objective was to hide the action as much as possible, inexplicably shooting it from behind fences or through gaps between stuff. I did laugh when Jessica randomly found the only two female henchmen in the entire organization to beat up in the final fight, but that was about it.
Did anyone honestly think Daredevil actually died at the end? I don't know why they even bothered with that. It just makes you start thinking about how some nuns randomly dug through all that rubble and pulled him out.
The only thing that stuck out to me was how unoriginal Sigourney Weaver's character was; just a walking bundle of cliches. How does a hack writer present the idea that a character appreciates the finer things in life? How about a scene where a literal string quartet play music for her, and then another character walks up from off-screen to complement her on her amazing knowledge of classical music just in case you didn't get it? Basically every time she's on screen they feel the need to remind us that, A) she's old and, B) she's snooty. And then, for good measure, she drops an honest-to-God "We're not so different, you and I" to Danny.
AND THEN ELEKTRA DOES IT AGAIN IN THE NEXT EPISODE!
There was maybe a cumulative thirty seconds of good, thumpy fight choreography in the whole series, but most of it was just the usual incoherent shots of two figures in black clothes flailing in the dark to a soundtrack of biffs. Most of the time it felt like the objective was to hide the action as much as possible, inexplicably shooting it from behind fences or through gaps between stuff. I did laugh when Jessica randomly found the only two female henchmen in the entire organization to beat up in the final fight, but that was about it.
Did anyone honestly think Daredevil actually died at the end? I don't know why they even bothered with that. It just makes you start thinking about how some nuns randomly dug through all that rubble and pulled him out.
broncobuster
Banned
What happened to the action scenes for Netflix Marvel? Daredevil started off great. JJ and Luke Cage weren't good or anything but I could see what's happening. Iron Fist, a show that should've had the best choreography and action, was all rotten.
Now at the end of Defenders episode 7, they jump across three fights that are all: dark, shaky cam, quick cuts, and close ups on body part. It's unfathomable.
Now at the end of Defenders episode 7, they jump across three fights that are all: dark, shaky cam, quick cuts, and close ups on body part. It's unfathomable.
RedAssedApe
Banned
different fight choreographers. additional actors. fight scenes with multiple characters with varying levels of training. dd gets to wear a mask.
danny rand fights were better than on his own show.
The above. The one on one fights were still pretty good (LC vs. IF, IF vs. Elektra, DD vs. Elektra etc.). I'd say this is one area where Dany Rand looked much better than he looked in IF. Those were god awful.
Also what did you expect them to do with fights featuring old ass Gao
broncobuster
Banned
Last episode action was a step up from some of the previous ones, but still pretty rough. Overall for a team-up show limited to 8 episodes, the whole thing felt...unremarkable and dull. Started out kinda bad, got enjoyable in the middle, and declined once again for the last two episodes.
I do feel there's potential in Defenders S2, if only for Matt and Jessica teaming up.
And Netflix Marvel really needs to start diversifying the tone and style of the shows. I get the idea they want each to feel like cohesive, but comes off as bland. And I'm one of the ones who thinks that critique is exaggerated when thrown at the MCU movies.
I do feel there's potential in Defenders S2, if only for Matt and Jessica teaming up.
And Netflix Marvel really needs to start diversifying the tone and style of the shows. I get the idea they want each to feel like cohesive, but comes off as bland. And I'm one of the ones who thinks that critique is exaggerated when thrown at the MCU movies.
RedAssedApe
Banned
Really underwhelming overall. So much cliched dialogue and visually dull action. I actually laughed out loud at the craptacular CGI when the Asian guy got thrown off the elevator into the giant hole. SO bad.
EDIT:
lmao
dude was still alive when he hit the bottom too. unfortunately he had to get impaled lmao
After mulling over the show, I feel the best way to sum up the story that they ended up with is that it's an unholy combination of half-assed versions of bits from The Dark Knight Rises, Avengers, and Batman v Superman.
Daredevil's plot thread alone was a mix of half-assed Dark Knight Rises, a superhero that retired after losing the love of his life, spurred into action (with an attempt at a similar heroic reappearance in costume that was hilariously, underwhelmingly executed) and then "dying" and passing on the city protector mantle to a bright eyed young rookie, along with the worst part of Batman v Superman (a wholly unearned and logically unsound sacrifice death along with heroes that are way too upset over his death).
The show was an utter, utter mess.
Daredevil's plot thread alone was a mix of half-assed Dark Knight Rises, a superhero that retired after losing the love of his life, spurred into action (with an attempt at a similar heroic reappearance in costume that was hilariously, underwhelmingly executed) and then "dying" and passing on the city protector mantle to a bright eyed young rookie, along with the worst part of Batman v Superman (a wholly unearned and logically unsound sacrifice death along with heroes that are way too upset over his death).
The show was an utter, utter mess.
Really underwhelming overall. So much cliched dialogue and visually dull action. I actually laughed out loud at the craptacular CGI when the Asian guy got thrown off the elevator into the giant hole. SO bad.
EDIT:
lmao
Did anyone notice the super bad green screen during that whole scene? It had been years since I noticed such obvious green screen.
Shit was weird.
PingPongvonLaserstein
Member
Man, I tried. I really, really tried. Occasionally skipped through the odd Danny Rand solo scene, but other than that I was really doing my best to just go with it.
And then "well that's the problem Matt, I'm all outta calm" happened, and I couldn't dive for the remote fast enough.
And then "well that's the problem Matt, I'm all outta calm" happened, and I couldn't dive for the remote fast enough.
matrix-cat
Member
So, I didn't watch his solo show, but is Danny Rand actually supposed to know kung fu in this universe? Like, at all? I mean, it's one thing to have him lose every fight all the time, but he doesn't even do any wuxia technique stuff. Daredevil seems to have a more refined fighting style. Any time Danny has to get into a fighting stance he just kind of puts up his dukes and hops from side to side mean-muggin'.
Pilgrimzero
Member
Jess was great despite kind of being overshadowed by Luke.
Danny is the worst.
But not as bad as the plot. Ugh.
Danny is the worst.
But not as bad as the plot. Ugh.
I like how not one fuck was given when Stick died. And Weaver just felt off as a villian. They needed a real threat other than handfulls of Hand (been there done that in DD S2) and zombie Electra.
It was pretty "meh". I was begging for it to wrap up by episode 8. At least I can look forward to Misty's cyber arm.
It was pretty "meh". I was begging for it to wrap up by episode 8. At least I can look forward to Misty's cyber arm.
Killa Sasa
Member
Started average, episodes 3-5 are good shit, then slowly began a descent. Matt was easily the best part of the show, with Jessica surprising me with how fun she was. I hope she gets a few crossover eps with the others because she worked with them the best. Luke was dope in spurts, Elektra had a moment or two.
Everyone else was a little bit annoying - Misty, Claire, Colleen, Danny. I did like they added some colour to Danny's story but I just don't find it that interesting because he's not super likable, whereas I can stand some of Matt's fantasy nonsense because the non-ninja stuff is pretty compelling to me. Stick overstayed his welcome so it was fine that he died too.
Towards the end, I was getting sick of the repetitive and obvious tropes, as well as no new ground being broken. Was still a decent watch and thank goodness it was only 8 episodes. The Hand can rest for a while, I hope. Murakami was a lot of fun and Sowande was aight, but didn't care for the others.
Also, why are DD fights so much better than the others? I get that Jessica and Luke don't know karate, but lord why was IF choreography just feeling low tier compared to DD's in the same show even? Felt a little weird.
I embrace the fantastical and all that because at the end of the day, these are cape shows. I just hope they make it interesting if they're gonna keep fuckin that chicken with it. Get back to street level crime as opposed to existential threats please. Fisk should be good enough for that.
I'd put Defenders in the middle of the pack. Probably wouldn't want to watch it again. Maybe episode 3.
Amazing:
DD S2 Ep1-4
DD S1
Good:
LC Ep 1-7
JJ
Eh:
Defenders
DD S2 Ep 5-13
No Thanks:
LC Ep 8-13
IF
Everyone else was a little bit annoying - Misty, Claire, Colleen, Danny. I did like they added some colour to Danny's story but I just don't find it that interesting because he's not super likable, whereas I can stand some of Matt's fantasy nonsense because the non-ninja stuff is pretty compelling to me. Stick overstayed his welcome so it was fine that he died too.
Towards the end, I was getting sick of the repetitive and obvious tropes, as well as no new ground being broken. Was still a decent watch and thank goodness it was only 8 episodes. The Hand can rest for a while, I hope. Murakami was a lot of fun and Sowande was aight, but didn't care for the others.
Also, why are DD fights so much better than the others? I get that Jessica and Luke don't know karate, but lord why was IF choreography just feeling low tier compared to DD's in the same show even? Felt a little weird.
I embrace the fantastical and all that because at the end of the day, these are cape shows. I just hope they make it interesting if they're gonna keep fuckin that chicken with it. Get back to street level crime as opposed to existential threats please. Fisk should be good enough for that.
I'd put Defenders in the middle of the pack. Probably wouldn't want to watch it again. Maybe episode 3.
Amazing:
DD S2 Ep1-4
DD S1
Good:
LC Ep 1-7
JJ
Eh:
Defenders
DD S2 Ep 5-13
No Thanks:
LC Ep 8-13
IF
matrix-cat
Member
As much of a fuck as he gave about cutting his own hand off. That moment was so abrupt I had to laugh when they zoomed in on the severed hand at the end. I thought he'd just sliced through his cuffs.
RedAssedApe
Banned
DD gets to fight with a mask. You think Charlie Cox is doing everything in those fight scenes?
I'm going to give Finn the benefit of the doubt and go with him not being able to prepare. He looked better in defenders. Hopefully he gets better for ifs2 as well
Dude does probably need to get in the gym more though. He looks really soft for a living weapon. An unsharpened blade ATM
I'm going to give Finn the benefit of the doubt and go with him not being able to prepare. He looked better in defenders. Hopefully he gets better for ifs2 as well
Dude does probably need to get in the gym more though. He looks really soft for a living weapon. An unsharpened blade ATM